Newbie help needed please.

Hi,

We currently own DVC points and travel to disney every other year from the UK. We have started looking for a TS to complement our DVC ownership for our 'other' years holiday (vacation!). I started looking at Marriot as I like the resorts but was pointed in the HGVC and Hyatt direction by member on here so I've been reading up!

I like the points based systems but although I've read the excellent articles on here I'm slightly confused by the MF's and the different seasons!

Can someone explain why it is better to have 7000 platinum points rather than 7000 gold? We would actually travel mostly in the gold season because UK summer holidays are mostly later than yours, do I need platinum to trade though?

If we intented to bank(?) our points from one year to the next to combine together do we need to buy 7000 (I've read this is the min we should get!). We only stay in 1 bed by the way, but we would want to stay for 2 weeks because of the travel involved from the uk. Can we get away with less which seem to be going very cheap at the moment on resale?

Finally does it matter where we buy? We like capitiva and sanibel but these seem to be affliates, is this right and we would have to try and book these at club level times, or can you owm there?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm abit confused

Many thanks,

Kate

catlady said:

Hi,

We currently own DVC points and travel to disney every other year from the UK. We have started looking for a TS to complement our DVC ownership for our 'other' years holiday (vacation!). I started looking at Marriot as I like the resorts but was pointed in the HGVC and Hyatt direction by member on here so I've been reading up!

I like the points based systems but although I've read the excellent articles on here I'm slightly confused by the MF's and the different seasons!

Can someone explain why it is better to have 7000 platinum points rather than 7000 gold? We would actually travel mostly in the gold season because UK summer holidays are mostly later than yours, do I need platinum to trade though?

If we intented to bank(?) our points from one year to the next to combine together do we need to buy 7000 (I've read this is the min we should get!). We only stay in 1 bed by the way, but we would want to stay for 2 weeks because of the travel involved from the uk. Can we get away with less which seem to be going very cheap at the moment on resale?

Finally does it matter where we buy? We like capitiva and sanibel but these seem to be affliates, is this right and we would have to try and book these at club level times, or can you owm there?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm abit confused

Many thanks,

Kate

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The difference is that the MFs are based not on how many points your week is worth but what size of unit you own. So a two bed unit during platinum has the same MFs as a 2 bd unit during gold or silver season. BUT the points you get from the units will vary from Plat -7000 pts, Gold 5000 pts & silver only 3500 pts.

So if you buy Silver vs Platinum seasons, you get 1/2 as many pts for the exact same MFs. For many units, you can make up the higher purchase price of the unit (platinum vs Gold vs Silver) with the lessor MFs in 4-6 years. But sometimes it may take much more than 10 years, and then maybe the cheaper purchase price does make sense.

As far as were you own, unless you want to travel to hard locations like HHV in the summer or the affiliates in Florida in the winter ( you likely need reservation during the home resort period), most locations seem to have opening during club reservation seasons. So you can use points from any resort to make those reservations. So why not buy the cheapest points you can. For most people that seem to be the Vegas or orlando resorts.

Remember, 7000 pts will get you close to 2 weeks in a 1 bd during gold season. So if you buy one 2 bd during platinum season at Vegas or Orlando (which will give you 7000 pts), you can use those pts for two weeks in a 1 bd during gold season.

Good Luck

Bill's post is excellent answer, so I'll just add...

The trouble with affiliates (as are all in Sanibel/Captiva) is...
(1) HGVC membership is not automatic. You have to make a request and pay an activation fee ($399). Since not all affiliate-TS owners are members, this can restrict reservations by "outside" HGVC-members.
(2) Apparently, HGVC does not let affiliate-owners make reservations at other resorts for a future calendar-year until their HGVC membership fee has been paid for that year.
(3) Its may be unlikely, but an affiliate can end its contract with HGVC, and thus, could exclude outside HGVC-members.

So, if you are dead-set on staying at an affiliate, you should buy there, but know that you are a stepchild in the grand design of the HGVC system.

Just a comment on the Sanibel/Captiva resorts.

They are difficult to book, especially in prime times, if you don't own there. And the mf's are pretty high. And the resale prices are pretty high also.
It's sort of like DVC where the best value is to use your DVC points at DVC resorts. Likewise, the best value for the Sanibel/Captiva resorts is to use your week there.

Also, the comment above about not being able to book into an HGVC resort for a future calendar year using points from an affiliate until the mf's are paid does not apply to the affiliates I own (Sanibel Cottages, Casa Ybel, and Seawatch).

Thanks so much Bill that makes complete sense now, I've never seen it written so clearly! It should be a sticky for us dazed and confused new members! I thought you got 7000 points with any season if that is what you chose to buy in the first place, i.e you can choose the number of points when you purchase like you can with DVC!

Does that mean if we bought a gold season resale for 5000 points at say orlando, if we used them every other year I would have 10,000 points every other year, which would be ok for 2 weeks somewhere. Is this correct? Would this be a good plan do you think?

Talent312 & dvc-john, thanks for the extra info.

HGVC membership is not automatic. You have to make a request and pay an activation fee ($399). Since not all affiliate-TS owners are members, this can restrict reservations by "outside" HGVC-members.

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Is this a fee you would have to pay for every exchange outside of where you own? Including RCI?

Also, with RCI I was looking through their website to see what they offered and noticed only a few properties said RCI points next to them. Does this mean you can only exchange with those properties (Like DVC does) or do you get access to all available properties?

Thanks so much guys it's really kind of you to take the time to reply

The $399.00 fee is a one time fee for Affiliate owners to join HGVC. regarding RCI exchange, yes HGVC members do have access to all the properties you see on rci website.

Form what I undertsand is resorts which has RCI points next to them are point based resorts which may let you request a stay less that 7 days. For example you can request a 1 night stay or a 3 night stay. On the other hand if you don't see the RCI points next to the resort name, which means they are a week based resort where you can only request for a minimum of a week stay.

There are also some RCI points resorts which require a minimum of 7 nights... The only way to find out is to talk to the HGVC CSR.

Some DVC comparisons

HGVC points are based on the week you purchase (resort, unit size, unit type/view and season).

Unlike DVC, you can't just add on a minimum of 25 DVC points. If you want more HGVC points, you have to purchase another deeded week to add points to your existing HGVC account. For this reason, some owners choose to purchase larger HGVC point packages instead of several smaller HGVC point packages. NOTE: HGVC Maintenance Fee (MF) is generally based on resort and unit size therefore a two bedroom bronze season owner (2,500 annual HGVC points) may pay the same MF as a platinum season (7,000 annual HGVC points), gold season (5,000 annual HGVC points) and silver season (3,500 annual HGVC points) at the same resort.

HGVC MFs are lower than DVC MFs. Unlike DVC, HGVC's MF is not all inclusive. The DVC's MFs are higher because it covers the onsite operational and administrative support from the Walt DISNEY WORLD Resort (i.e. member benefits such as resort transportation, package delivery from the parks to the resort, etc). DVC's MFs are also higher because it includes all administrative fees for reservations at the DVC resorts. With DVC, there are no additional club fee and no additional transaction fees (for making reservations at a DVC resort, changing reservations, banking, etc). See the page 147 of the HGVC Club Members Guide for the HGVC Fee Schedule - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/.

Similar to DVC, HGVC has a home resort booking period (12 months prior to checkout vs DVC’s 11 months) then everything opens up to generally booking at any resort (9 months prior to checkout vs DVC’s 7 months).

DVC is a pure point based system. With DVC, there is no minimum night requirement. With DVC, you can book any number of nights at any time including the home resort booking period.

HGVC is a combination of a week and points system. The flexible point based system doesn't apply during the home resort period. During the home resort period (9 to 12 months out) you have to reserve your unit for the full week (each resort has a designated check-in date) in the unit size, unit type/view and season you own. Also HGVC has minimum night requirements. See quote below for more details.

From http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=696694&postcount=2

HGVC has three reservation windows:
(1) Home Resort window (3 month period requires a full week reservation)
(2) Club Reservation window (9 month period requires a three night minimum)
(3) Open Season window (30 day period requires a two night minimum)

HGVC works like a floating week system during the Home Resort window which means from 12 months to 9 months before check-in, if you want to visit your home resort then you must reserve the exact unit size and type in the season that you purchased (studio, 1 bedroom plus, etc) for the full week based on the fixed checkin date at your home resort. There is no flexibility. NOTE: Only points earned in the use year can be used in the home resort window. Borrowed, Rescued or Banked points can not be used in the home resort window.
HGVC works like a point based system during the Club Reservation window which means 9 months before checkout anyone can exchange into any season, resort (including your home resort), unit size and/or type for any number of days (minimum of 3 nights). This means all HGVC resort owners have an equal chance at booking at any HGVC resort (except NYC W57) during the Club Reservation window.

There is something called a changeable reservation option which allows members to change their reservations online. However the changeable reservation option only applies to Club Reservations (and W57's Home Resort reservations).

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Also similar to DVC, HGVC has banking and borrowing however it's slightly different. Unlike DVC, banked and borrowed points are not locked into a specific use year. Previously borrowed points can be returned back to their original use year if you cancel/change your reservations. Previously banked HGVC points can still be used towards the year's reservation. However, unlike DVC, HGVC banked points can not be used during the home resort booking period. NOTE: HGVC's use year is calendar based. It doesn't vary like DVC.

Just like DVC, if it’s important to stay at a certain resort during peak travel periods then it makes sense to own at that resort. If it doesn’t matter and you’re flexible then you can do an internal trade at the 9 month window. This is especially true for the Orlando and Las Vegas resorts since we have three HGVC resorts at each of these locations. NOTE: The Hilton Hawaiian Village (HHV) on Oahu is very popular, the Lagoon and Kalia Tower is very difficult to reserve during peak travel periods (anytime the majority of kids are out of school). The HHV Lagoon and Kalia tower will also book fast since these two towers are under the old point structure.

I don’t know about the availability at the 9 month booking window for HGVC affiliated resorts in Capitiva and Sanibel.
NOTE: We have limited availability at most affiliated resort see - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=474720&postcount=4. Also most of the affiliated resorts are not available via HGVC’s online reservation system so you have to call in. See this link for the lists of HGVC resorts available for online booking - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=674016&postcount=5.

Some of the newer HGVC resorts may not have the same point structure as the older resorts. For example, the number of points for a two bedroom gold in Orlando, will be different than a two bedroom gold at the new HGVC Grand Waikikian and the new HGVC Kings Land. See the page 145 of the HGVC Club Members Guide for the various point charts - http://www.hiltongrandvacations.com/mg/. The average owner will need to use more points at the newer HGVC resorts. This is like a DVC OKW owner wanting to stay at another DVC resort that requires more points. An old DVC OKW owner wanting to trade into the newer resorts may want to buy more points, plan for a shorter stay or borrow points. NOTE: With HGVC, you can't transfer points between members

Here's what Seth Nock, one of TUG's recommended resale agents stated

In 2006, from http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=238410&postcount=36
The new point structure is only for a few select new resorts. Those will be VERY heavily demanded resorts in VERY hard to get locations. These are properties people would be very happy using extra points to get and offer additional amenities. There will be other new properties at the normal point values. I think it will be a benefit, but only time will

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In 2007, from http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=314799&postcount=9
Unofficially, there will be more joint ventures (at 4800 points - 7000 points for a 2 bedroom) as well as a few higher point resorts. The new higher point resorts are in New York, Honolulu, and the Big Island. The 2 Hawaii properties are expected to have water parks attached.

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If you buy at a true HGVC resort ( and not one of the affiliates) you will be member of HGVC and may pay a small fee to transfer the TS into your name. You will not have to pay the $400 to join HGVC.

Does that mean if we bought a gold season resale for 5000 points at say orlando, if we used them every other year I would have 10,000 points every other year, which would be ok for 2 weeks somewhere. Is this correct? Would this be a good plan do you think?

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Yes, if you bought a gold 2 bd in Orlando, you would get 5000 pts /year and could bank and borrow the points, so you could get 10,000 pts EOY.

Is this a fee you would have to pay for every exchange outside of where you own? Including RCI?

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Yes there is a small fee to make reservations during club season. The only time there isn't a fee is when you stay in what you own. ( a full week at home resort, season & size)

Hi,

Many thanks again for your replies

Great info. alwysonvac many thanks for that comparison with DVC. Just one query though does this

NOTE: Only points earned in the use year can be used in the home resort window. Borrowed, Rescued or Banked points can not be used in the home resort window.

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mean that if we banked one years points to use the next year (to make up 2 weeks) we would not be able to book our home week + another week with our points? (hope that makes sense!)

If we bought at an affilite can we always become a member of HGVC (on payment of a fee) and then use the club like others who own a non-affiliate? Some of resales I've seen for sanibel do not mention points in the listing although they seem cheaper? so might be better to buy?

At the moment we have to travel in the summer (mid July to end of August)! So I'm worried about availability!

Sorry to ramble on there is so much to think about! Thanks again

catlady said:

...I started looking at Marriot as I like the resorts but was pointed in the HGVC and Hyatt direction by member on here so I've been reading up!

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From your Marriott post - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96618

catlady said:

Hi,

Anyone up for a challenge?

I have started the search for a timeshare and found this board which has been brilliant, and I have learnt so much already! Thank you!

I think from all the reading I've done a Marriot TS would be good, but I'm not sure which one would be best for us. So I thought I'd explain abit about what we need and see if any of you kind people can point me in the right direction

Firstly we live in the UK. We have 2 children (11 & 8 ) so need to travel in school holidays (vacation!) times, mainly the summer, but sometimes Easter.

Our summer break is mid July to end of August, with 3 weeks at Easter. We currently own DVC points (Animal Kingdom Lodge) and we usually travel every other year to Disney with those points.

My hubby thought about buying more DVC points to use for our alternate years holiday, to try and exchange in to RCI thorugh DVC, but I have read on a Disney forum that it is not a good use of points, and it's better to buy other TS instead. Sorry for all the info

We need a resort that we can exchange rather than always go to, so from reading on here that seems to mean buying a platinum week at the resort in order to get a good chance?

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JMHO...

Most families are tied to a school calendar so you will have the greatest exchange competition anytime the kids are out of school. Most families want a two bedroom for Spring Break, Summer Break or Winter Break. Some destinations will be harder than others. It depends on demand and supply. For example, if you want to go to Orlando during the summer, you won't have any problems getting an exchange since there's an oversupply of timeshare resorts in Orlando.

It's also important to understand supply and demand. When you pull up a resort in the Interval International Resort Directory there is a link to the Travel Demand Index for each week throughout the year. Here's an example of the Hilton Head Travel Demand Index as you can see the greatest demand is during the summer. The last two weeks of the year are not as popular in Hilton Head therefore availability is possible.

Here's a link to a timeshare weekly calendar - http://keysy.com/calendar/



RCI and Interval International (II) are a little different. II seems to value the quality of resort and unit size. RCI seems to value earlier deposits and high demand weeks.

Based on the various sighting boards, it seems that you'll have a better chance at getting a high quality resort with RCI during school breaks since RCI's trading power is based on high demand weeks. However with any exchange company you have to be a planner so you can be first on line with your request. From TUG's Timeshare 101 article, "Many TUGgers conduct their vacation scheduling two years in advance of the actual vacation days."

For example, early planners were able to grab the following RCI weeks
- summer 2010 weeks were already available in Feb 2009 at a RCI Grand Cayman timeshare - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91388 (NOTE: Must be a TUG member to view exchange sighting)
- summer 2010 weeks were already available in March 2009 at a RCI California Southern Coast timeshare - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90040 (NOTE: Must be a TUG member to view exchange sighting)


Think about where you want to go and look at the resorts available at II and RCI. Here's a link to their directories
http://www.intervalworld.com/web/cs?a=1500
http://www.rci.com/RCI/RCIW/RCIW_index?body=RCIW_rdMain

You'll notice that some resorts will have either a II Premier Resort designation or a RCI Gold Crown designation. However all resorts are not equal so it pays to always find out as much as possible before making a request for an exchange. I use the resort designation as a starting point then look at TUG Reviews, TUG posts and Tripadvisor Reviews and Photos as my source for learning as much as possible about a particular resort.

It is important to understand that exchangers only have access to what is deposited and not all weeks are deposited. As someone said on a recent TUG thread, if you assumed that you will simply be able to "exchange" into where you want to go, when you want to go there then you might be very disappointed".

When you're looking to trade into a particular resort, you may be more successful if you try to learn which weeks are typical available (i.e offseason weeks only) based on previous deposits and when do they become available for exchange (i.e. two years in advance). For example, Marriott owners get to pick the week they want to deposit and experienced Marriott owners will try to deposit the highest demand weeks for the best trading power in II. However Marriott owners have 24 days advance access to all Marriott weeks deposited in Interval International so it is very rare that high demand weeks (i.e. Hawaii summer and winter break, Hilton Head summer, California coast summer, etc) get released to the general public and when they do it's normally 59 days or less (most likely a high demand week an owner was trying to rent but couldn't find a renter). However at the present time, due to the current economy some high demand Marriott weeks are making it to the general public in II.

I use WorldMark as my trader. It trades with both RCI and II. I've traded into Harborside at Atlantis three times with my WorldMark credits and I've seen weeks online but it's all been for offseason weeks or last minute weeks. Starwood controls which weeks are deposited into Interval International. Starwood saves high demand weeks for owners and deposit offseason weeks and low demand weeks in Interval International. I understood what was typically available via old TUG threads and I've made II exchange requests within those periods of availability. See this old post about exchanges into Harborside at Atlantis - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showpost.php?p=313083&postcount=3

I suggest reading these old TUG threads to give you more to think about
(1) Best TS - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90790
(2) Owning Multiple Systems - http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90999&highlight=portfolio
(3) TUG's timeshare 101 from the TUG Advice Board - http://www.tug2.net/advice/TimeShare-101.htm#_Exchanging_Your_Timeshare

Good Luck with your decision and Welcome to TUG

catlady said:

Just one query though does this mean that if we banked one years points to use the next year (to make up 2 weeks) we would not be able to book our home week + another week with our points? (hope that makes sense!)

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Yes, you can book your home week + another week with your points. However you won't be able to accomplish this during the HGVC Home Resort window. You will have to wait until the Club Reservation window (9 months) to make your reservation using your banked points.

You can either make your first week's reservation during the Home Resort window and your second week's reservation during the Club Reservation window OR just wait until the Club Reservation Window begins and make a two week reservation together.

Sorry, I can't help you with the HGVC affiliated resort question. I don't know enough about the HGVC membership for HGVC affiliated resort owners.

catlady said:

... Does this mean that if we banked one years points to use the next year (to make up 2 weeks) we would not be able to book our home week + another week with our points? (hope that makes sense!)

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Per alwysonvac, banked points cannot be used to add to a home week reservation, at least not during the home week reservation-period that runs from 12 to 9 months out. Trying to add dates to a home week stay by waiting until the "club reservation" period can be problemmatic. Consider taking two separate 1-week vacations, instead.

catlady said:

If we bought at an affiliate, can we always become a member of HGVC (on payment of a fee) and then use the club like others who own a non-affiliate?

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To get a HGVC membership thru an affiliate, you have to make a request and pay a $399 activation fee (sellers cannot transfer their memberships). But an affilate may not allow resale-buyers to have a HGVC membership or may have dropped out. Contact both the resort and HGVC to detemine if HGVC membership is available. Do not rely on the seller to give you an accurate answer.