CMF
TUG Member
Banked Points can Expire.
Did anyone catch this in the survey? It's one of the downsides.
Charles
Did anyone catch this in the survey? It's one of the downsides.
Charles
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Vacation Club Points Survey
- Thread starter ddinallo
- Start date
The survey did mention that there could be a cap on the number of units. I can't recall whether that was for this particular question or not, but I believe it was.
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An inherent long term problem is points inflation that we would have no control over. Marriott can decide how many points new resorts are worth without regard to comparable value. Therefore they could make a less desirable resort more valuble and enhance their sales. Then we'd have points plundering better weeks.
If it ain't broke don't screw with it
Oh great! Another Marriott enhancement.
I wonder when this program would roll out, it sounds like it could be within the 2009 year.
I say, add the any day check in to the existing weeks program and leave the rest of the so called enhancements out.
Oh great! Another Marriott enhancement.
I wonder when this program would roll out, it sounds like it could be within the 2009 year.
I say, add the any day check in to the existing weeks program and leave the rest of the so called enhancements out.
I do see a flip side to this coin. If the number of points Marriott offers for these weeks is exceedingly low, then the owners would probably choose to keep them in II. These low value weeks might be the only trades to be had in II.
It could boost the value...
CMF
TUG Member
Is it an all in sort of deal?
I don't remember if multiple week owners have the option of enrolling just some of their resorts?
Charles
I don't remember if multiple week owners have the option of enrolling just some of their resorts?
Charles
darcy
newbie
I don't like a lot of the details, but the feature of being able to use < 7 nights and to use the points for off/shoulder-season stays to stretch the amount of vacation time is one of the things we really like about the Hyatt system. Since our first Hyatt purchase in June (2br August week in Key West), we have used the points for 5 nights in Breckenridge in August, 11 nights in Aspen in October, and 7 nights in Key West for Thanksgiving week. Although we get great trades with our Marriott weeks, it is a less flexible system.
Empty Nest
TUG Member
One downside for those of us that stay out of the points program is availability. Now we can call at 9:00 13 months out. Yes, we have to be there first, but I am usually pretty successful. My question is-- Do you think all of the units will be available or will Marriott take some weeks for the Point Program before we get a chance?
Mike
Mike
Points has the edge
Any units that go to points will no longer be in the weeks pool.
As for the relative value, every points system clearly shows that there are better resorts and better times at those resorts that are worth more points. A platinum week in Myrtle Beach most likely is not equal in value to a platinum week in Aruba - or the reverse. The same valuation is happening now, but not in the open. Points just makes in very clear where the value lies. But a point is a point so two lower value weeks can still be worth more than one high value week and all would trade the same in total points required. Again in points you can save, borrow or rent to get a high use one year and take off season or smaller units to make it up another year. Weeks can't do that and it is a key feature for points. Of course points expire at some date - so does your use week. Nothing lasts forever.
Once you experience the ease of use of a well operated points based system you would never want to go back to weeks.
Any units that go to points will no longer be in the weeks pool.
As for the relative value, every points system clearly shows that there are better resorts and better times at those resorts that are worth more points. A platinum week in Myrtle Beach most likely is not equal in value to a platinum week in Aruba - or the reverse. The same valuation is happening now, but not in the open. Points just makes in very clear where the value lies. But a point is a point so two lower value weeks can still be worth more than one high value week and all would trade the same in total points required. Again in points you can save, borrow or rent to get a high use one year and take off season or smaller units to make it up another year. Weeks can't do that and it is a key feature for points. Of course points expire at some date - so does your use week. Nothing lasts forever.
Once you experience the ease of use of a well operated points based system you would never want to go back to weeks.
aka Julie
TUG Member
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So how does Marriott decide which week in your season would go into the "pool" if you sign up for the points program?
Is it the week on your deed? Or do they pull out a # of weeks out of the season based on how many owners signed up? If so, I imagine they would pull out the best weeks and leave the less desirable weeks for everyone else.
I didn't receive the survey, but this sounds a lot more complicated than the current system.
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Giving up ultimate control?
Once a resort is "sold out," the "owners" become the full Board of Directors. In theory-- the Board of Directors are the ones ultimately in charge. And while it's a threat of "last resort," the Board of Directors can now threaten to replace Marriott as the management company.
But if owners are tied to Marriott's internal trading system, then basically, in the future, boards will not be able to threaten to replace Marriott as the management company. So the owners really would not be ultimately in charge of their own property.
So it seems to me, Marriott will be locking up a permanent revenue source because we'd have to keep them and they could do whatever they wanted.
thoughts??
But on a basic level... I see advantages and disadvantages to the points system. I am certainly not thrilled with the idea of paying to join!
I take it we would have to pay for two systems? Internal Marriott and Interval? We have scored some fun places outside the Marriott system (trades and getaways), so I'm not sure I want to give up Interval.
Once a resort is "sold out," the "owners" become the full Board of Directors. In theory-- the Board of Directors are the ones ultimately in charge. And while it's a threat of "last resort," the Board of Directors can now threaten to replace Marriott as the management company.
But if owners are tied to Marriott's internal trading system, then basically, in the future, boards will not be able to threaten to replace Marriott as the management company. So the owners really would not be ultimately in charge of their own property.
So it seems to me, Marriott will be locking up a permanent revenue source because we'd have to keep them and they could do whatever they wanted.
thoughts??
But on a basic level... I see advantages and disadvantages to the points system. I am certainly not thrilled with the idea of paying to join!
I take it we would have to pay for two systems? Internal Marriott and Interval? We have scored some fun places outside the Marriott system (trades and getaways), so I'm not sure I want to give up Interval.
John, you offer incouragement. What are we waiting for? Let's roll with it!
Just like we all learned to be good Marriott buyers and traders, we Tuggers shall also soon be "experts" in the in new points system. Good or bad, Im ready. I just hope to get closed on my MBP week before the changes take effect. Actually, I may look for another Marriott TS to get grandfathered in before the changes take effect.
Terry
I agree with dioxide, no one is exploiting any loopholes and I don't think most people who take advantage of trading a studio for a 2bd room expects this as a matter of course. But at least with the current system, you have an opportunity for a better trade. With the new point system, you will not have this opportunity!
Please understand that this is not a good system for owners and we are all getting a bad deal if you sign up for this!
davidvel
TUG Member
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Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
Technically, Marriott cannot override/replace the deeded reservation system (ie. 12/13 months prior). However, they arguably could be a proxy for you and then reserve a particular week exactly 12 months out THROUGH THEIR COMPUTER SYSTEM which to no one's surprise would beat everyone else out... Something for "non-participants" to pay CLOSE attention to.
While I agree that Marriott could threaten owners of this (or include it in the terms of the program), it could not STOP an HOA from using a new manager. Marriott's system would really be no different in principle than Redweek. Marriott could choose to include resorts that are old Marriotts (not that I think they would) just as Redweek uses deposits from all differnet brands. The HOA could choose to cut ties with Marriott in accord with any contraact it has.
CatJ114683
TUG Member
Uneasy about the Point structure
We also received the survey. We have owned a single week 2 bdrm @MGV since 2001. For us, the points and the micro - splitting seem very complex. We would never want a time share facility for a single or 2 night stay. It would be wasted. We would not be able to stock or utilize the kitchen and thats a lot of points to use for a microwave! If we travel on long weekends, we don't want a kitchen anyway... and certainly we don't need laundry in the unit and I would want housekeeping for a get away of such a short duration. One year, we did split 3 nights / 4 nights to try it. It was a lot of work for too short a vacation time. Unfortunately, we now live some distance from where we purchased, and just hopping into the car for a couple of days of pool use is out of the question and we 'depend' on being able to trade. As many other tuggers have mentioned over the past months, as Marriott continues to 'deflate' the value of their points, that particular system seems to have lost it's luster for us. Anyway, there is no doubt that whoever reads our survey will know we are not interested.
We also received the survey. We have owned a single week 2 bdrm @MGV since 2001. For us, the points and the micro - splitting seem very complex. We would never want a time share facility for a single or 2 night stay. It would be wasted. We would not be able to stock or utilize the kitchen and thats a lot of points to use for a microwave! If we travel on long weekends, we don't want a kitchen anyway... and certainly we don't need laundry in the unit and I would want housekeeping for a get away of such a short duration. One year, we did split 3 nights / 4 nights to try it. It was a lot of work for too short a vacation time. Unfortunately, we now live some distance from where we purchased, and just hopping into the car for a couple of days of pool use is out of the question and we 'depend' on being able to trade. As many other tuggers have mentioned over the past months, as Marriott continues to 'deflate' the value of their points, that particular system seems to have lost it's luster for us. Anyway, there is no doubt that whoever reads our survey will know we are not interested.
CMF
TUG Member
That's right. The house keeping bill is going to go way up if the staff has to clean the units two or three times a week when, for the most part, they only clean once a week now.
Charles
Charles
I wouldn't go so far as to say that.
I would imagine it would be closer to that of Starwood than Redweek. With Starwood Vacation Network a 2BR platinum plus at an upper tier resort (Hawaii) gets 148,100 points (StarOptions), while a 1BR at that same resort gets 81,000 points.
At Myrtle Beach (which Marriott used as an example in their survey) a 2BR platinum unit gets 81,000 points (non-lockoff). This is enough points to get a 1BR for a full week in Hawaii. With the new Marriott system you should be able to bank (and/or maybe borrow) enough points to get a 2BR in Hawaii.
See this Starwood chart.
Terry
CatJ114683
TUG Member
The other thing I did not like about the points system was also pointed out by a previous post. The older your home resort gets, the less value it will have as newer TS facilities are rolled out. So if you have been a long time owner at an established resort, you could end up losing big in a trading situation, even if you own the most platinum of platinum weeks. What about the Florida Club? How would points effect that? Oh, let me guess, there would be an additional charge on top of that additional charge.
Dave M
TUG Lifetime Member
As explained in early posts in this thread, the survey was e-mailed to those Marriott owners who have reported receiving it (and presumably to many other owers, too.)
Things don't change
This is often stated by opponents of points systems but its not true. Unless the resort is allowed to deteriorate it will maintain its value. And again the value would also drop in weeks if that happened - you wouldn't be able to get the same high quality or newer resorts with a lower quality or older week due to trade value either. Again points simply openly quantify what you own and give you far more options than weeks to "adjust" - and it doesn't have to involve buying more points (although to hear the sales people talk it would). We purchased our points in the Wyndham system over 12 years ago. The points value has never changed and those points have been able to reserve every resort - new, old or in between, we've ever wanted as a point is a point. If you have enough you get what you want. If you don't rent, save, borrow - you don't have to buy more. Until you use it it's hard to imagine how easy and clear cut points systems are.
Yes newer resorts may cost more points than an older one just like it costs more to buy. That doesn't mean your older resort is worth "less". It means you have to plan a little more to allow for those higher point requirements that year. Its not hard.
This is often stated by opponents of points systems but its not true. Unless the resort is allowed to deteriorate it will maintain its value. And again the value would also drop in weeks if that happened - you wouldn't be able to get the same high quality or newer resorts with a lower quality or older week due to trade value either. Again points simply openly quantify what you own and give you far more options than weeks to "adjust" - and it doesn't have to involve buying more points (although to hear the sales people talk it would). We purchased our points in the Wyndham system over 12 years ago. The points value has never changed and those points have been able to reserve every resort - new, old or in between, we've ever wanted as a point is a point. If you have enough you get what you want. If you don't rent, save, borrow - you don't have to buy more. Until you use it it's hard to imagine how easy and clear cut points systems are.
Yes newer resorts may cost more points than an older one just like it costs more to buy. That doesn't mean your older resort is worth "less". It means you have to plan a little more to allow for those higher point requirements that year. Its not hard.
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Marriott Desert Springs Villas 2
Marriott Grand Chateau
I feel like a piñata
I feel like a piñata. Everyone wants to keep whacking me as hard as possible until all the money falls out of my pockets.
If it's a government entity, they want to raise my taxes.
If it's a business entity that I deal with, they want find ways to add new fees to get more money out of me. And usually, right along with those new shiny fees, along come "program enhancements" that really mean a reduced level of benefit to me.
It's not fun being a piñata.
I feel like a piñata. Everyone wants to keep whacking me as hard as possible until all the money falls out of my pockets.
If it's a government entity, they want to raise my taxes.
If it's a business entity that I deal with, they want find ways to add new fees to get more money out of me. And usually, right along with those new shiny fees, along come "program enhancements" that really mean a reduced level of benefit to me.
It's not fun being a piñata.