Will Marriott penalize resale owners?

Last week, while staying at KBC, I attended a timeshare presentation. One of the sales reps that I talked to began explaining that Marriott appears to be planning to begin their own internal exchange program. I've heard hints about that before. So, I was not too surprised by that information. However, I was stunned when the same salesman noted that Marriott was also leaning to reduce the reservation window for resale owners (i.e., "external owners") from 12 months to 6 months. If Marriott does that, it will be difficult for resale owners to reserve the best weeks. Moreover, I would think that it will also become very difficult for any Marriott owner to sell his timeshare due to its value being greatly diminished. Has anyone heard anything about this?

Sounds like salesman scare tactics and BS

Never heard anything like that... actually, you may want to check here if you have some free time

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60528

hotcoffee said:

Moreover, I would think that it will also become very difficult for any Marriott owner to sell his timeshare due to its value being greatly diminished.

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What would be funny is to write the sales manager saying I was very interested, but with what the salesperson said about the new system, if for any reason I had to sell it, my resale value would go into the toilet with the new system, so I can't buy.......

Heard the almost the same

I went on a presentation last week and the salesman alluded to Marriott having an internal exchange as well.

It won't happen. They can't change the rules on those who already purchased - huge lawsuit, etc. They can talk about changing it in the future - but who would buy if they knew that it was worthless to sell? The salespeople have to have something to say about resale. and honestly - I think some of them believe it. Ignore it!

davidvel said:

Never heard anything like that... actually, you may want to check here if you have some free time

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60528

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Thanks for pointing me to that thread. I spent a lot of time reading through it and learning that nothing seems to be definite.

The salesman who told me about the 6 month reservation window for resale owners did not do himself or Marriott any favors. There is no way on earth that I would purchase any Marriott timeshare if I thought that I could not sell it should the need arise. In my view, such a discrimation against resale owners would greatly devalue all Marriott timeshares (both resales and developer sales) regardless of whether existing resale owners were grandfathered in or not.

Hopefully, this is just a rumor (as many of the posters in the other thread seem to believe).

FWIW, they can often do just about anything they want. Starwood has an internal trading system. But a few years ago they came up with a fairly arbitrary breakdown of resorts into two categories. In the largest category, called Voluntary, the internal trading privileges do not pass with a resale. Yes, all current owners are in the system, but only five resorts can pass privileges along.

As you can imagine, the difference in resale price between equivalent resorts with unequal internal trading privileges is enormous.

I agree that this should be sent in letter form to the Sales Manager and directly to Marriott.

I, too, was at KBC last week and also had the same talk. Here is the concern I have: the resale units I have purchased will decrease in value immediately upon implementation of the internal trading program; the trading power will be impacted negatively as well - even if we get "grandfathered" in. From what the sales rep said, each property and each season within the property will have different point values. Since I have always traded my "golds" for "plat" times of the year, this practice will become severely curtailed. It might take me 2 years to build up enough points to get a Plat trade with a Gold unit. If I planned to just use my Marriott timeshare, then I would not be impacted as much. However, I have never stayed at my home resort during the gold season. I chose Marriott in the first place because of their "unique" trading ability.

I would say changes are in the offing, and they do not favor resale owners.

Any thoughts?

not to beat a dead horse, but if they change the program to decrease resale's "status," would that effect the grandfathered resales when, in turn, the resale is resold yet again? (If I did not phrase that well, if a grandfathered resale week is resold, will it still be considered a "grandfathered" week to Marriott or like the new resales? That would effect the resale price of a grandfathered resale)

Assuming that present resale units are grandfathered in (and for Marriott to do otherwise would be, in my opinion, shooting themselves in the foot from a public relations perspective) then any changes such as the above two posters are alluding to would affect all owners, whether they bought from Marriott or resale. Gold, Silver and Bronze week trades into Platinum may, as Jo-Jo is concerned, become a thing of the past or at least certainly less frequent, and it would impact everyone.

Likewise, whether you bought originally from Marriott or on the resale market, when you sell the new owner would not be grandfathered in, so likely resale values would plummet. Who would want to purchase a unit if they could only reserve the left-over weeks?

I certainly hope many of the implementations discussed here don't come to fruition, because restricting the resale market will, ultimately, impact all owners and buyers. I know most people buy with the intention of keeping their purchase, but life sometimes throws curves in the road and people's needs change. I know I would think hard about spending $$$'s if I knew that it would have limited value (and those salespeople would have a hard time keeping a straight face touting a purchase as an investment ).

Same Pitch Made at Newport Coast Villas

The salesperson at NCV told us in June that Marriott puts a mark on its computer against anyone who owns from a source outside Marriott. She said that within three years Marriott is going to be more exclusive and do all of its exchanges outside of II and that we wouldn’t want to be excluded from that process. She said we would be on the outside looking in.

I wish I had asked her why I would want to buy a TS from Marriott if Marrott was going to depreciate the value of my TS by making it unappealing to resale buyers. But I'll bet she had an answer to that question as well (another fib).

Lawlar said:

She said that within three years Marriott is going to be more exclusive and do all of its exchanges outside of II and that we wouldn’t want to be excluded from that process.

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We need to always distinguish between Marriott's changing the recorded governing docs. which control reservation of your week, and setting up a new (internal) system for trading. They are distinct.

Marriott cannot in any way shape or form control how, with whom, or where you decide to "exchange" your reserved week. You can do it with friends, you can do it on e-bay, you can do it through a system such at redweek or II, or any other way you want. You can even start your own exchange sytem and set up your own rules if you want. Marriott can do the same as redweek, II, etc. have done, and make their own rules for those exchanges, but it would be your choice to participate or not as with all the other exchange systems.

They may even be able to limit their system to "direct" purchasers (although they would certainly be subject to anti-trust scrutiny based upon their market postion and position as "managers" of the resorts and control over the initial reservation process). Remeber that if they did restrict it is a doubel edge sword: direct purchasers who deposited would not be able to exchange weeks deposited in that system with resale purchasers.

It seems to me that in any internal system (using points vs. II type system) would not change the relative trading power of any particular week. The power of any week is based upon what other people want and when, and shouldn't change from what it is now if you use points which would be based upon the trading power.

JimIg23 said:

What would be funny is to write the sales manager saying I was very interested, but with what the salesperson said about the new system, if for any reason I had to sell it, my resale value would go into the toilet with the new system, so I can't buy.......

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This was my thought too! I just think it was scare tactics. It wouldn't make any sense to do what he suggested.

Janna

If you bought resale (which I did on one unit) why would you expect to be treated the same as a direct purchase owner? Marriott said you wouldn't be treated equally when you made your resale purchase. Marriott openly states that resale buyers will be treated differently by not granting MR points and withholding the services of a vacation advisor. I'm sure they could come up with more Draconian measures if they wanted to. They have access to good legal advice.

It's not in Marriott's interest to depress the resale market. However, it is in their interest to protect their sales. I think that they are more interested in protecting themselves from other TS competitors rather than worry about a small and insignificant resale market. (Resale market is estimated at about 7% of total TS sales) The Marriott resale market is currently depressed because of the economy not because of any possible changes to a trading system.

The rumored Marriott internal trading system would improve Marriott's competitive standing and add to their bottom line. If any Marriott owners have a beef it should be the direct purchase owners who were given MRP trade-in availability and then had their reward schedules devalued.

I know it was said it was not true, but it seems, based on threads, more and more salespersons are saying this. After a while, I get the feeling Marriott may still be considering this.

Zac495 said:

It won't happen. They can't change the rules on those who already purchased - huge lawsuit, etc. They can talk about changing it in the future - but who would buy if they knew that it was worthless to sell? The salespeople have to have something to say about resale. and honestly - I think some of them believe it. Ignore it!

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Many people buy Wyndham resorts direct from the developer and what are they worth the moment they leave the sales office? I read that they lose 80 to 90% of the value of the purchase price they just paid but people are still buying as they don't realize this until they have to sell.

Developers should do anything possible to keep the re-sale values high rather than work against it as it eventually will hurt their retail sales too and that would serve them right.

That the Marriott is going over to a point based system may not be so bad as it is more in line with what other developers do today but they cannot cut out re-sale buyers from that system because that would take exchange inventory away for people who bought directly from the Marriott but they may give them a lead time in making an internal exchange like they are having now for multiple week owners who can reserve their own week at their resort earlier depending on how many weeks they own but they can't cut anyone out of the new internal exchange system as there would be less inventory. JMHO, of course.

Resale

I would guess Marriott could do anything on their internal trading system, but they could not stop you from trading elsewhere. They certainly can't make it any harder to reserve in your home resort...afterall, they don't own the resort, they manage it.

I suspect that if they pulled this stunt, the other trading systems would have a field day with it, and pay you a premium in terms of points or exchanges, for a Marriott week. It might actually increase the trade value since they will make Marriott TS weeks more scarce. I like it!

John Cerra

Marriott is not wastegate, it will never punish resales. Not only would retail sales be affected but Hotel stays as well. If you owned a resaled Marriott and they deflated its value, would you ever stay at a Marriott hotel again?

Don't believe sales talk...its a bully reaction...

Every TS presentation I've gone to where I've expressed purchase of a resale, they tell me that resale owners suffer compared to new buyers, in very few cases is this true, and usually its not a significant variance to encourage me to purchase direct from the developer. The only way I would purchase from the developer is if the price from the developer vs resale price is very close.

So I wouldn't take what your salesperson stated seriously.

jo-jo said:

From what the sales rep said, each property and each season within the property will have different point values. Since I have always traded my "golds" for "plat" times of the year, this practice will become severely curtailed. It might take me 2 years to build up enough points to get a Plat trade with a Gold unit. If I planned to just use my Marriott timeshare, then I would not be impacted as much. However, I have never stayed at my home resort during the gold season. I chose Marriott in the first place because of their "unique" trading ability.

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Resale vs. direct Marriott sales aside, this is what concerns me most. I purchased directly from Marriott and I have traded from 'gold' into 'platinum' season on all of my trades. We always read about great trades and upgrades with the current II system (gold to platinum, studio to 1bdrm, 2bdrm to 3 bdrm, views, etc). If this aspect of 'trading up' is also affected, then it will also diminish the value of the Marriott TS brand.

Why Does Marriott Allow Sales Reps To Misrepresent?

JimIg23 said:

I know it was said it was not true, but it seems, based on threads, more and more salespersons are saying this. After a while, I get the feeling Marriott may still be considering this.

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I have to assume that Marriott knows what its sales reps tell its customers. Which leads to the question of why does Marriott allow its reps to misrepresent (lie) its products?

Isn't Marriott concerned about its reputation?

Any thoughts? I would love to hear from Marriott's apologists on this question. [Dave M?]

Marriott's apologists?

Lawlar,

Why the insult? Marriott's apologists [Dave M]?

There are so many more professional/gracious/discrete ways to seek to address this relevant question. Why did you choose this approach?

Dave is under no obligation to offer his opinion (or to defend Marriott) and if I were him I would be dismayed to be unfairly branded with this label.

Greg

Cindala said:

Resale vs. direct Marriott sales aside, this is what concerns me most. I purchased directly from Marriott and I have traded from 'gold' into 'platinum' season on all of my trades. We always read about great trades and upgrades with the current II system (gold to platinum, studio to 1bdrm, 2bdrm to 3 bdrm, views, etc). If this aspect of 'trading up' is also affected, then it will also diminish the value of the Marriott TS brand.

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I suspect that this will be much harder to do once the internal system is implemented, especially within the system.

Instead of diminishing the brand, I think it might enhance the perception of exclusivity and hence enhance the brand.

VacationPro said:

Instead of diminishing the brand, I think it might enhance the perception of exclusivity and hence enhance the brand.

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Perhaps, but then who would buy gold, silver, bronze, sport, etc. seasons? Or for that matter, anything less than a 3bdrm? Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.