StarOptions for Sheraton Vistana Fountains I and II

As I understand it, all those that bought resale in Sheraton Vistana Fountains I or II and had them deeded and recorded with Starwood before March 31, 2008 and being invited to join SVN (Starwood Vacation Network) which is Starwood's internal exchange system. For $109 you get to join and get membership with Interval International for your week.

Starwood is giving 76,000 staroptions to these 2 bedroom red 1-52 owners who join and the week can be exchanged for 42,000 Starpoints.

What is confusing, however, is on mystarcentral Starwood has a StarOpitions Value Chart for the 2009 use year for all of their resorts. It indicates that the Staroption value for the prime weeks is 81,000.

Why would Starwood give new members only 76,000 for their week and then require 81,000 for everyone else in SVN to exchange into the resort? Why don't they just give 81,000 and 67,100 respectively to the owners of 2 and 1 bedroom prime week units?

mclay said:

Why would Starwood give new members only 76,000 for their week and then require 81,000 for everyone else in SVN to exchange into the resort? Why don't they just give 81,000 and 67,100 respectively to the owners of 2 and 1 bedroom prime week units?

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It appears that our friends at SVO are attempting to "wet your whistle" for StarOptions with the hope that you'll love 'em so much, you'll run right out and buy an additional developer purchase to pick up the slack that SVO intentionally avoided giving you.

We've been callling this concept "StarOption Devaluation" here in our corner of TUG, and much has been discussed about it. Here are a few links to get you started.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70486

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70428

Realistically, who is going to "spend" 81,000 StarOptions to go to VR anyway? II and RCI practically give 2BR VR's away as getaways/Extra Vacations. Those 76,000 StarOptions are all about trying to get existing Fountains/Beach Club owners to stay in a studio in Maui (where SVO can't fill them) once, and once there get them to figure out that if they only had a few more StarOptions they could stay in a 1 bedroom next time . . . .).

Good Luck with your decision to bite SVO's baited hook for the low low fee of only $109/year.

-nodge

Oh yeah, 400 timeshare villas (Fountains I, II & Beach Club) with 51 owners per villa, each paying the $109/year SVN fee . . .
totals . . . . .$2,223,600/year profits to SVO (less its incremental fee paid to II for all those additional II memberships, which I'm guessing is squat). That's not a bad return for the day's worth of preparing the paperwork it probably took to make it happen. -n

Nodge

Nodge... Im in the same spot as the poster, are you saying if you were a resale buyer that was offered to join the program you wouldn't join the network and take the offer?

i would definitely join, you have nothing to lose.i have been very lucky with the svn trades i have gotten over the years.

I decided to join, simply to add to the variation of choices I have for using all of my TS, and am glad that I goofed up and picked one weeks resort that allows me more options than just using my week or trading it.

I would take a good long look at the StarOption chart and figure out where and when you can go with 76,000 Staroptions.

Are you real flexible about when you can travel (off-season)?
Are they places that you want to go to?
Will 76,000 Staroptions get you a unit big enough for your family?
Are you organized enough to make a Staroptions exchange at exactly 8 mos. out at 8:59 EST and be persistant if you don't get it the first try?

Remember, you have to pay the $109 SVN fee every year, even if you never get an exchange. With the Starwood priority in II, you might get more out of your week by making timely II exchanges.

I don't believe SVR had 2 different seasons before for trading in with StarOptions. So it sounds like to me that they split the seasons (one at 81,000 StarOptions and another at 67,100 StarOptions) and picked a number in the middle (76,000 StarOptions) to offer to existing owners...

It is their way of dealing with owners who had the 1-52 week season before...

We can argue all day if the SVN network is fair all the time or not. But for me, $109 is a steal to have other options...the reason we all like and are drawn to Starwood is the flexibilty. The flexibilty traditional timeshares did not offer. Including converting to StarPoints...which may not be a good value all the time, but at least it's an option. (Converting those StarPoints to miles is sounding better every day with the cost of flights going up! $1000+ to Hawaii these days from Chicago!) I like my home resorts, but its nice to have lots of different options to go other places.

Brad

Tonyboombatz said:

Nodge... Im in the same spot as the poster, are you saying if you were a resale buyer that was offered to join the program you wouldn't join the network and take the offer?

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Tonyboombatz,

Based purely on emotion and the thrill of being allowed access to something that had previously been denied me, I would probably be the first one to join SVN under these terms.

But over time, if this were my only SVN property, I would quickly learn that 76,000 StarOptions is nothing to write home about. So, I would probably rarely use them and end up regretting my decision to join SVN (which, given the almost daily reminders at how poorly we owners are valued by SVO’s top management, I often do anyway).

Instead, I would either enjoy my 2 BR freshly updated Orlando timeshare during a peak season OR trade that booked peak season via II for something else, including a 2 bedroom at the Maui or Kauai Westin timeshares (which would have cost 148,100 StarOptions and therefore been completely out of my reach if I had tried to use SVN to book the same deal).

With 76,000 StarOptions, you are staring down a studio in Maui (and maybe Kauai and Cancun if utilization patterns mirror Maui) during a non-peak season. The much hyped and anticipated StarOption trade availability into WSJ will not apply because you’ll need at least 81,000 StarOptions to trade into the new WSJ phase, the only phase with a large portion of weeks sold as exclusively floating weeks.

Also, when you join SVN, you give up your right to pick the week (and resort) that gets deposited into II for you. Accordingly, SVO will be free to deposit an Avon mud week, or a Scottsdale summer week instead of that Orlando peak season week you got up at 6 AM (My Time on the West Coast) to book 12 months out). Oh yeah, you RCI Points folks will have to give up that program too, so you can kiss trades into the Manhattan Club (an RCI stronghold, and a totally awesome timeshare despite its slow elevators and brick wall views) good-bye.

Then again, if you already have some StarOptions (or are thinking of making a new SVO developer purchase anyway), then adding 76,000 StarOptions to your stash for free is a good thing, especially given SVO’s new found hobby of devaluing StarOptions for fun and profit.

I don’t know what the right answer is here, but you now at least have the facts you need to decide for yourself. It’s too bad you have to get those facts from a random message board floating around in cyberspace, instead of from the Fortune 500 company that is trying to get you to sign on the dotted line.

But, hey, at least it mails out a luggage tag every now and then, and I understand it is CURRENTLY offering a killer discount for an online retailer through February 14, 2008. Better crank-up your time machine to take advantage of that one.

-nodge

nodge said:

Tonyboombatz,

Based purely on emotion and the thrill of being allowed access to something that had previously been denied me, I would probably be the first one to join SVN under these terms.

But over time, if this were my only SVN property, I would quickly learn that 76,000 StarOptions is nothing to write home about. So, I would probably rarely use them and end up regretting my decision to join SVN (which, given the almost daily reminders at how poorly we owners are valued by SVO’s top management, I often do anyway).

Instead, I would either enjoy my 2 BR freshly updated Orlando timeshare during a peak season OR trade that booked peak season via II for something else, including a 2 bedroom at the Maui or Kauai Westin timeshares (which would have cost 148,100 StarOptions and therefore been completely out of my reach if I had tried to use SVN to book the same deal).


-nodge

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Thanks nodge. I think that II membership (without being in SVN) is something like $79. Since it's included in the SVN membership I'm sort of thinking that the additional $30 or so, isn't really a big deal even if I use StarOptions only occasionally.

I haven't had II membership, but have been in RCI since we bought into fountains about 15 or 16 years ago.. I hope II will have a better track record of getting me into places like Hawaii than RCI did (it's been a real pain). At least (using StarOptions), even if it's only into a studio, at least it looks like I'll be able to get in now

mbisson said:

Thanks nodge. I think that II membership without being in SVN is something like $79. Since it's included in the SVN membership I'm sort of thinking that the additional $30 or so, isn't really a big deal even if I use StarOptions only occasionally.

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One thing you should know - that acct. is only for SVN units, so if you own other timeshares and want to use II, you would have to open and pay for a 2nd II Acct.

DeniseM said:

One thing you should know - that acct. is only for SVN units, so if you own other timeshares and want to use II, you would have to open and pay for a 2nd II Acct.

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Yep, I'm aware of that. It's our only unit, and I don't foresee us getting another. Thanks!

mbisson said:

Thanks nodge. I think that II membership (without being in SVN) is something like $79. Since it's included in the SVN membership I'm sort of thinking that the additional $30 or so, isn't really a big deal even if I use StarOptions only occasionally.

I haven't had II membership, but have been in RCI since we bought into fountains about 15 or 16 years ago.. I hope II will have a better track record of getting me into places like Hawaii than RCI did (it's been a real pain). At least (using StarOptions), even if it's only into a studio, at least it looks like I'll be able to get in now

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Okie Doke, just remember this number: 20,400

That is the potential number of new folks entering into SVN under this deal who will be competing with you for those Maui studios (and anything else that "costs" less than 76,000 StarOptions outside of Orlando).

On the plus side, folks with 81,000 or more StarOptions and not wanting to join in the fray should be pretty well isolated from this potentially fierce competition. You know, now that I think about it . . . . if most of you 20,400 folks just bought another developer unit, this artificial demand blip would go away and return things to normal. Hmmm. Have you ever seen a Cancun sunrise, or the North shore of Kauai? Hold on. I'll be right back with my picture of the Westin St. John pool . . ..

Until then, please report back what you think of SVN after you've had a chance to make, or at least try for, a Maui studio.

Good Luck,
-nodge

Will do, but it'll be a couple years b4 we try for Hawaii...

You've often sounded negative toward Starwood (& rightfully so)...but it's starting to turn toward bitter. Guess you don't really appreciate that some of us are now able to join SVN (otherwise we wouldn't be referred to as "you folks"). Relax, kick back, have a drink.

Also remember that as soon as you join SVN, you "give up" your right to chose which week is deposited in II for exchanges. So even though the price difference is little, you give up all control. You are likely to always have an "off season" Orlando unit deposited since Starwood is cheap with their deposits. And then you won't be able to take as good of an advantage of II as if you had a prime week deposited. Now if you own off season, then this is not an issue.

Katherine

mbisson said:

Will do, but it'll be a couple years b4 we try for Hawaii...

You've often sounded negative toward Starwood (& rightfully so)...but it's starting to turn toward bitter. Guess you don't really appreciate that some of us are now able to join SVN (otherwise we wouldn't be referred to as "you folks"). Relax, kick back, have a drink.

Click to expand...

It's hard to be critical of something without being interpreted as sounding bitter (which I’m not. -- maybe tired, but definitely not bitter). I try to temper that with humor, but sometimes it's just plain hard to do that. This is one of those times.

If I were more on my toes, I'd find some humorous analogy involving horses and water. But, I'm beginning to realize that access to the forbidden StarOption fruit, no matter how small a bite, is just too tempting a treat for the likes of mere reason, math, or humor to intervene.

One last question I would ask before taking the SVN bite is: Are those well respected timeshare owners who partake of this SVO deal free to quit SVN and thereby return things to as they were should these well respected timeshare owners find that SVN is somehow not the timeshare land of milk and honey as promised? If so, then go for it before SVO starts charging all of you well respected timeshare owners the $599 SVN joining fee. If not; however, then at least consider raising an eyebrow or two before biting.

-nodge

nodge said:

Okie Doke, just remember this number: 20,400

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Does that number include all phases of Vistana Resort, or just Fountains I & II? If not, then getting those other resorts may get more difficult in a few years if SVN invites the other phases into the program.

I have been in RCI Points so long i forgot that II was even an option. Using Fountains prime weeks to trade(summer or Xmas for example), what types of trades have you TUG members secured in the recent past. To me, given I control which week to trade, II sounds like I will get a better quality high season trade in a 2 bd than switching to SVN and only having a 3 month window to use my 76000 Star Option points.

mishpat said:

I have been in RCI Points so long i forgot that II was even an option. Using Fountains prime weeks to trade(summer or Xmas for example), what types of trades have you TUG members secured in the recent past. To me, given I control which week to trade, II sounds like I will get a better quality high season trade in a 2 bd than switching to SVN and only having a 3 month window to use my 76000 Star Option points.

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why do you thinklyou will only have a 3 month window? home resort 12 month out. any resort in the SVN 8 months out. the 3 month window is if you want to go for days or to borrow from your next years staroptions.

I just spoke with Starwood and was informed that you can drop out of the program anytime you want. I requested to have that put in writting and was told that someone would get back to me. I appreciate the healthy debate on the issue and will share the information when I hear back.

Tony

nodge said:

It's hard to be critical of something without being interpreted as sounding bitter (which I’m not. -- maybe tired, but definitely not bitter). I try to temper that with humor, but sometimes it's just plain hard to do that. This is one of those times.

-nodge

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Gotcha' Nodge. My apologies!
Ironically BTW-about a month or so ago I did ask questions about some of the points you raise (in particular-will it be difficult to get into some of the higher demand resort like those in Hawaii). At that time the answers were along the lines of "if you're flexible no problem". As a group, the opinion seems to be changing.

Still, since SVN membership includes II membership it's a gamble I'm willing to take since I'd either pickup II anyhow (or stay in RCI)

mclay said:

As I understand it, all those that bought resale in Sheraton Vistana Fountains I or II and had them deeded and recorded with Starwood before March 31, 2008 and being invited to join SVN (Starwood Vacation Network) which is Starwood's internal exchange system. For $109 you get to join and get membership with Interval International for your week.

Starwood is giving 76,000 staroptions to these 2 bedroom red 1-52 owners who join and the week can be exchanged for 42,000 Starpoints.

What is confusing, however, is on mystarcentral Starwood has a StarOpitions Value Chart for the 2009 use year for all of their resorts. It indicates that the Staroption value for the prime weeks is 81,000.

Why would Starwood give new members only 76,000 for their week and then require 81,000 for everyone else in SVN to exchange into the resort? Why don't they just give 81,000 and 67,100 respectively to the owners of 2 and 1 bedroom prime week units?

Click to expand...

just spoke to starwood and all owner of the beach club and fountains will be able to use there weeks for any weeks at either resorts (even trade).

even though you get 76000 staroptions and you decide to use your week during high season which is worth 67100 staroptions to the rest of the SVN you will not have 8900 staroptions as a balance to use as extra days or go for a day or 2 elsewhere.

mbisson said:

Gotcha' Nodge. My apologies!
Ironically BTW-about a month or so ago I did ask questions about some of the points you raise (in particular-will it be difficult to get into some of the higher demand resort like those in Hawaii). At that time the answers were along the lines of "if you're flexible no problem". As a group, the opinion seems to be changing.

Still, since SVN membership includes II membership it's a gamble I'm willing to take since I'd either pickup II anyhow (or stay in RCI)

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Fair enough. Also, I think you can stay in RCI too (just not RCI points, only RCI weeks).

Regarding the Maui studio availability issue, I think we're all just starting to see that this deal has a high potential to dramatically change the current SVN availability landscape.

Let’s run the numbers. This SVN deal (that is Fountains/Beach club owners now being able to join SVN to the tune of 76,000 StarOptions each) has the potential to dump 1,611,160,000 (400 units x 51 weeks/unit x 79,000 StarOptions/unit totals 1.6 Billion, that’s right Billion!) StarOptions into the system.

Now normally this wouldn’t be that big of a deal because villas associated with those new StarOptions are put back into the exchange system for others to exchange into. The only thing is, very, very few people will burn their StarOptions exchanging INTO Fountains villas. Vistana Resort is just too big and too oversold, and with RCI Extra Vacations & II getaways selling Vistana Resort weeks for next to nothing, who would burn their StarOptions on such a trade?

So pre-1.6 Billion StarOptions being dumped into the SVN system, Maui studios are indeed pretty darned easy to get using StarOptions. But, I highly doubt that Maui (and all the other top tier resorts offering studios for 67,100 StarOptions,) can absorb that many StarOptions without significantly compromising their availability.

Who knows, maybe SVO can unlock its jaw like a snake and get its top tier resorts to just swallow 1.6 billion extra StarOptions a year in one big gulp. But I doubt it, and I think that as a result most Fountains/Beach Club owners who do this deal will be disappointed with what SVN is able to offer them.

As a side note, these 1.6 billion StarOptions will also be competing with current StarOption owners who were told they could split their 2 bedroom L/O's into a large one bedroom for a week followed by a studio for the next week to essentialy get two weeks in Maui etc. That studio second week will be tougher to pull in the future.

-nodge

Only reason I would see us using our points a SVR would be to get 2 weeks in a 1br unit instead of 1 week in a 2 br unit. Not having the kids with us any longer 2 br is more than we need. And I understand that puts us in the "8 month pool" rather than the 12 month owners slot. (that is of course we find we're able to use the staroptions in other places. If we can't, we'll probably just deposit with II most of the time)

nodge said:

So pre-1.6 Billion StarOptions being dumped into the SVN system, Maui studios are indeed pretty darned easy to get using StarOptions. But, I highly doubt that Maui (and all the other top tier resorts offering studios for 67,100 StarOptions,) can absorb that many StarOptions without significantly compromising their availability.

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If Maui studios are that much in demand (moreso than other SVN units requiring the same number of StarOptions), then the answer sounds easy to me: the StarOptions value of those units is out-of-whack and should be increased to represent their fair-market value.

But of course, we'd all complain about that, too.

BradC said:

If Maui studios are that much in demand (moreso than other SVN units requiring the same number of StarOptions), then the answer sounds easy to me: the StarOptions value of those units is out-of-whack and should be increased to represent their fair-market value.

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I think we’re saying that Maui would be most in demand simply because Maui CURRENTLY has a lot of excess inventory whereas other 67,100 StarOption top tier properties aren't as easily available (currently).

I hope SVO isn't reading this or they'll probably use your idea. We can call it the SVO two-step:

Step One: Lure Fountains/Beach Club owners into SVN with 76,000 StarOptions and a promise of trades into studios in Maui, Kauai, and Cancun.

Step Two: The demand on these villas increases due to 1.6 billion StarOptions being dumped into the system from Step One, so it "adjusts" (aka "ups") the StarOption "costs" for these properties above 76,000 StarOptions - leaving the step one owners high and dry (unless of course they buy another developer unit to increase their available StarOptions).

This is like that "War Games" movie, you know the one where Matthew Broaderick, armed with only his street smarts and maybe a kayak, saves the world from a "Global Thermonuclear War" and wins the affection of America's sweetheart Ally Sheedy to boot. Matthew figures out how to teach the glitchy computer that is about to launch all the missiles that the only way to "win" the game is to never play it. Great advice Matthew!

We can learn a lot from '80's movies. Now according to Kevin Bacon in "Footloose", we should all dance in public with the preacher's daughter despite the rules prohibiting it.

-nodge