WSJ Staroptions

I was asking about a summary of what happened at each resort both in SOs and entry into SVN - as I wasn't following the Sheraton SO thread completely.

More to the point - how does this impact us?

For example...
The WKORV and WPORV 2Bd LOs are valued at 148.1K SOs - fair enough.
The WKV 2Bd LOs in the Platinum are also valued at 148.1K SOs, and the lower seasons have less SOs - seems reasonable.
WSJ VG (Hillside) had a increase in SO - to bring them into alignment with WSJ BV and the other comparable SVO Resorts - very fair since they were seriously undervalued.

It also seems reasonable that the WLOR (Cancun) SOs were increased to bring them into alignment with the other tropical resorts.

How were my SOs devalued with the changes at the VR resorts? And what were those specific changes (since I wasn't completely following the other thread because you would have to pay me to go to Orlando.... and we are Westin folks)

pointsjunkie said:

i totally agree with you on these points.

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There you go SVO, even the eternal optimist POINTSJUNKIE, super-duper loyal SVN member, and all around good person, is watching you on this.

-nodge

nodge said:

SVO, you're on notice. Glorian and I are watching you.

-nodge

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Hmmm--not sure if I should be honored or terrified to be linked with you, Nodge!

Glorian

grgs said:

Hmmm--not sure if I should be honored or terrified to be linked with you, Nodge!

Glorian

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Just keep repeating "greater good, greater good" over and over when the garbage truck empties the dumpters next to your window every morning at 6 AM on your next SVO vacation. Works like a charm.

-nodge

This is definitely all about sales ... just think about which ones they've upgraded:

-- Fountains, now nice enough to be part of the network due to the renovation ... but to get a "good trade," a Fountains owner will need to buy more

-- Westin Lagunamar -- only upgraded after early sales didn't meet expectations

-- WSJ -- new phase units are high $$$ -- deserve lots of StarOptions. How do you argue that the original phase doesn't deserve the same SOs -- they both have air conditioning? These have always been undervalued.

Look at Harborside -- a summer 2-BR requires the same SOs as a summer Vistana unit. Even paying full price from Starwood, a 2-BR summer week at Vistana is about $1100-$1200. If you can get one from Atlantis, a 2-BR would be about $10,000 with all the fees. From Atlantis Family Fun, a 2-BR is $5700-$5900, depending on the week. Why has there never been a valuation correction? Because they've been able to sell all but the worst weeks without gimmicks. But, if the economy doesn't turnaround, I'll bet we'll magically see a re-evaluation when Phase III sales start.

As a Starwood, Hyatt, and Hilton owner (plus lots of little non-branded but wonderful family resorts), it's been apparent to me for years that Starwood doesn't care one single bit about their owners after they've made the sale. I'm guessing there's a lack of business school education in their senior leadership -- customer loyalty is a pretty basic concept for long-term success but they just don't seem to get it. "Share of wallet" hasn't really sunk in either (except maybe at the 5 Star PFL level). I think they're missing a ton of people who don't want all their eggs in one "PFL" basket, but who would have been willing to buy another one or two if it wasn't for things like SO imbalance, worst reservation system in the industry, lack of concern for resale value (or worse, policies that ensure abysmal resale value), etc.

Oh well -- guess I'm back to the dumpster view! But, I'm ticked at Continetal Airlines today too, so I guess I'm taking it out on Starwood (plus they make it so easy!). I'm gold elite with Cont'l, but had to pay $50 to grab an empty seat on an earlier flight today (in the 2-hour window, no less). It was $25 a couple of weeks ago. It's not about the money -- I was on a business trip so will be reimbursed -- it's the principle of the thing! Why would they tick off a gold member over $50 lousy bucks???

Maybe I'm just drinking the customer service kool-aid too much. I work for a company that could swallow Continental and Starwood with our petty cash, and I just can't understand how they can be missing the boat on this stuff.

jerseygirl said:

Oh well -- guess I'm back to the dumpster view! But, I'm ticked at Continetal Airlines today too, so I guess I'm taking it out on Starwood (plus they make it so easy!). I'm gold elite with Cont'l, but had to pay $50 to grab an empty seat on an earlier flight today (in the 2-hour window, no less). It was $25 a couple of weeks ago. It's not about the money -- I was on a business trip so will be reimbursed -- it's the principle of the thing! Why would they tick off a gold member over $50 lousy bucks???

Maybe I'm just drinking the customer service kool-aid too much. I work for a company that could swallow Continental and Starwood with our petty cash, and I just can't understand how they can be missing the boat on this stuff.

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Amen Sister.

You know, if enough of us owners voice our concerns with SVO, it'll have to buy more dumpsters for its properties just to make sure we all get to be near one during our stays.

Regarding Continental, about a year ago we flew from Newark to Portland (which is about a 6 hour flight) on Continental. Shortly after takeoff, the overhead A/C system started dripping water on us at the rate of about one drop every minute. The flight attendant said the flight was full so we couldn't change seats, but she gave us paper cups to hold on top of our heads--for the entire flight.

After about an hour of this, we decided to go stand in the galley area in back by the bathrooms instead. The flight attendants had the curtain drawn and were sitting back there gossiping like, well like lazy gossiping flight attendants, and they yelled at us to close the curtain when we popped our heads back there to see if there was a dry place to stand out of the way from being right in front of the bathroom doors.

So we eventually returned to our seats and got dripped on for the rest of the flight to Portland. The big finale was during final approach when a big gush of (what we hoped was) water dumped on us.

I guess what I'm saying is with Continental there are times when paying them $50 for nothing is a bargain.

Oh yeah, if we ever fly Continental again, I'm bringing a roll of duct tape. In my six hours of Chinese water torture (I did get pretty good at estimating when to put the cup on top of my head to catch the next drop), I engineered in my mind the perfect fix. I had everything I needed except duct tape.

-nodge

Thanks for the wonderful visual Nodge. I'm picturing you shifting the cup from your table tray to your head every 40 seconds or so ... for 6 hours! Yeah, you just have to love service industries that don't understand service!

Continental's employees seem to be getting small does of the kool-aid though. I remember a time (90s, I think) when I stopped flying them for about 10 years or so 'cuz all they ever did was yell at everyone, e.g.:

80-year old customer, "May I please have a drink of water to take my heart medication?"

Continental Flight Attendant, "NO ... CAN'T YOU SEE THE PILOT HAS THE SEATBELT LIGHT ON."

When I got sent for a "tour of duty" in Houston, I had no choice but to start flying them again. But, now I only get yelled at once every few months or so.

nodge, thanks for the laugh.you are too much:hysterical:

New Data Point?

nodge said:

Fair Enough. We'll just have to see where new resorts' StarOptions fall.

FWIW, a two bedroom summer season at Steamboat will be 95,700 StarOptions (the same at Westin Riverfront), which is more StarOptions than the same sized unit and season at SMV. But, I suspect Steamboat will have A/C too, so it's not really an entirely new data point.

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I don't know if we've discussed it yet, but I was just reviewing the latest StarOption chart on MSC and noticed the following discrepancy at Sheraton Broadway Plantation:

Original Phase 2 BR L/O's for the season that includes summer (weeks 9-43, 47) "cost" 81,000 StarOptions/week.

But 2 BR L/O's in the newest phase at SBP (Palmetto) during the summer (weeks 24-35) "cost" 95,700 StarOptions.

Does anyone know of any physical differences (like A/C) between the original and new Palmetto phase to justify this difference in StarOptions? Otherwise, can we declare this a true StarOption devaluation?

Also, regarding WSJ and the highly anticipated internal exchange availability when the new "Bay Vista" phase comes online, the StarOption chart shows that this new phase will not have anything smaller than 2 bedroom units available. One would need at least 81,000 StarOptions to get ANYTHING in this new phase (which is a two bedroom during hurricane season).

Given the fixed week ownership terms at the original WSJ phases, I suspect that it will remain as difficult as now (i.e. virtually impossible) to trade into the original WSJ phases, even with the “bay vista” phase coming online. Accordingly, everyone with less than 81,000 StarOptions (i.e. all of the Fountains/Beach Club folks signing up to pay annual SVO dues for 76,000 StarOptions) will probably be completely shut out of WSJ, unless of course they buy an additional developer villa that offers them more StarOptions . . . ...

Thoughts?

-nodge

nodge said:

I don't know if we've discussed it yet, but I was just reviewing the latest StarOption chart on MSC and noticed the following discrepancy at Sheraton Broadway Plantation:

Original Phase 2 BR L/O's for the season that includes summer (weeks 9-43, 47) "cost" 81,000 StarOptions/week.

But 2 BR L/O's in the newest phase at SBP (Palmetto) during the summer (weeks 24-35) "cost" 95,700 StarOptions.

Does anyone know of any physical differences (like A/C) between the original and new Palmetto phase to justify this difference in StarOptions? Otherwise, can we declare this a true StarOption devaluation?

-nodge

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the original phase was not originally starwood. and i think the newer units are larger.

Actually, there not really

The older 3 bedrooms have pools, the new ones do not. And from the model I've seen, the newer 3 bedrooms are about the size of the older two bedrooms.

Just my opinion.

Lori

The only good thing about Fountains and other 76,000 SO properties is that they are cheap. Low MF also. So owning 2 of Fountains is still less MF and less $$ up front than a 148,100 SO property currently selling with Starwood (like Desert Willow, Lagunamar, etc).

Otherwise, that 76,000 SO devaluation is a total rip off for those poor souls who own only 1 unit and want to be in a 1BR anywhere via SVN.

katherine

Loriannf said:

The older 3 bedrooms have pools, the new ones do not. And from the model I've seen, the newer 3 bedrooms are about the size of the older two bedrooms.

Just my opinion.

Lori

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I believe you're referring to WSJ? The poster above was referring to SBP (pointsjunkie, #35).

Glorian