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Owners Update - The latest info!

duke

duke

TUG Member
Joined
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Location
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Went to an owners update at WMH ..... (5000 starpoints for attending)

Here are some updates:

1. 5* ELITE: At a national meeting for Sales Managers held last month SVO announced that there would NOT be any extension of the 2000 SPG Platinums for life. After 2000 that is it. There are currently 1700 SPG Platinums given to 5* ELITE. Only 300 left and no more will be given past the 2000. The ELITE program will continue after that and SVO is thinking what more they could offer.

2. Westin Desert Willow: There will NOT be a W hotel at Desert Willow. Prices for Platinum 2 br L/O is $38,900 with 144,000 starpoints as incentive. An ADDITIONAL 30,000 points are ALSO given if you are an owner staying at WMH and purchase today for a total of 174,000 incentive starpoints. Staroptions are annual 148,100 or 72,000 starpoints.

3. Princeville Kauai: For new purchasers (not current owners) they are only selling EOY at $36,000 (I think) - no EY week sales. Current owners of any SVO property can purchase an annual at $49,900 or 1/2 for EOY. Princeville Resort Hotel will be a St Regis and they are looking at this being their premier SVO resort.

4. ALL new resorts will be Voluntary. No more Mandatory.

5. Elites receive a 10% bonus for conversion of week to starpoints.
 
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limiting the plats .Thats suprising to me. Duke mentioned this many times before but I didn't think they would hold to it.The plat for life was the best incentive to become 5* they had. The incentive to be 5*elite will be DOA.The incentiive for 3,4 were already destroyed. I can see future buyers not being so brand loyal .Marriott and Hyatt are offering some interesting new properties. A mixed portfollio may be the way to go if there is no incentive for owners to buy more Starwood .Starwood can keep taking from owners it will make investers happy now but in the long run no one is going to want the watered down product it's becoming.ENRON take the money and run mentality.The resorts are fantastic and I always expierenced a quality stay but you can't keep taking and not giving back!(STARPIONT DEVALUATION STILL HURTS)
 
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I don't recall the EOY being as high as $36K (form our update at WKORV) - I think it was more like $32.6K - which is closer to 65%. I do think WPORV is going to be a great resort (May-Sept) especially since it is unlikely there will be more than 179 units.
 
can you tell I'm sick and cranky???

duke said:
Princeville Resort Hotel will be a St Regis and they are looking at this being their premier SVO resort.
Click to expand...

That is salesman talk, pure and simple. The Princeville SVO resort is more than a mile from the hotel and is branded Westin. Its neighbors are Pahio timeshares that sell for MUCH LESS, some with dead-on views of Bali Hai. SVO owners can't even swim in the St. Regis pool, so to imply special status or privilege because of "perceived" proximity to the hotel is being disingenuous at best. But hey, we will all find out soon enough how the property compares and then the BS can at least be laid to rest for the TUG members. I wonder if the resort has the same small living room design that we see at WKORV-N. If so… it’s a beach-front private villa rental on Anini beach for me! (Thank you WKORV for that!)
 
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i am glad i got in before the last 300.( sarcasm) i really don't think they are stopping it at 2000. it just does not make good business sense. what else can they offer a person as an incentive to become 5*? i think it is a sales ploy that our friendly starwood salesperson is famous for.we will see.
 
pointsjunkie said:
i think it is a sales ploy that our friendly starwood salesperson is famous for.we will see.
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While that wouldn't surprise me, something else to consider here is the fact that they may not be able to go beyond 2,000. Plat is a status level created by SPG, not SVO and it is intended to reward hotel brand loyalty. While SPG is willing to give gold to anyone with a pulse (and maybe even a few without one), they are pretty protective of Plat status (it's rarely granted without the requisite stays required). I suppose only time will tell for sure. Not that it matters to me. I'm stopping here at 3*.
 
I attended an owner's update at WKORV last week. The salesman spent most of the time trying to sell Princeville. I don't remember the exact figures, but it was something like $25K for EOY and $49K for EY. It was definitely lower than WKORV-N, which the salesman quoted as $62.9K for island view. The starpoint incentive for Princeville was 250K.
 
spuppy said:
I attended an owner's update at WKORV last week. The salesman spent most of the time trying to sell Princeville. I don't remember the exact figures, but it was something like $25K for EOY and $49K for EY. It was definitely lower than WKORV-N, which the salesman quoted as $62.9K for island view. The starpoint incentive for Princeville was 250K.
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Wow. Sounds like it's not selling well out on the North Shore. $14K difference in prices is fairly dramatic. And I've never heard of a starpoint incentive that high. This means all SVO salespeople will increase the use of the words "St. Regis" by a multiple of four when talking to clients about WPORV.

I think it's the variable weather out there that's the problem and the dicey access to the beach. I frankly did not see how getting to the beach would work when I stood on Anini beach and looked up at WPORV.

The North Shore is by far the most lovely setting in HI, but the rain is a constant concern. I spent the week before 4th of July at the Princeville Resort (now known as the St. Regis) in 2006 and it rained 5 of the 7 days we were there for a significant amount of time each day. It got old. Especially with little kids screaming to go outside. We often drove south to Poipu to get out of the weather.
 
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For me, the main detraction of WPORV is the fact that it's not directly on a beach. I really like the convenience of being able to walk from my villa to the beach, especially with teenagers who are old enough to be trusted on their own but whom I wouldn't feel comfortable driving to a beach and leaving.

I agree that the benefits of being an elite owner are not worth the hefty price tag. If and when we buy another TS, I'll be far less likely to limit myself to Starwood properties for several reasons:

a) limited locations of Starwood properties - my next TS will have international locations and many more properties easily accessible from the Midwest. Had the Marriott Maui location offered full kitchens and washer/dryers in their rooms (I know the new towers do, but I wanted to buy resale), I'd have bought there instead because of the expansive network of Marriott properties.

b) Since the OF view at WKORV that I paid a premium for isn't recognized at other locations, I doubt I'll ever convert to StarOptions. So being able to combine StarOptions of multiple properties is therefore not a benefit to me.

c) SVO management has cheerfully reneged on key benefits of being an elite owner. I simply don't trust them to do the right thing. Some folks have sunk hundreds of thousands of dollars into SVO to obtain elite status. I think SVO has treated them very poorly.
 
LisaRex: Totally agree with your comment of SVO treatment. We were one of SVNs first buyers (at Mission Hills) -- before all the fancy addiitions like Elite. Each time something was added, we moved one step further down into the pecking order for exchanging. I think we now are underground :eek:

We go to Mission Hills in two weeks and boy they are going to hear my complaints when I go to the Owner's update for my SVN points. :(
 
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To clarify post number 7 (which influenced Rockys reply), the SPG incentive for WPORV is actually 70k for existing owners. You can then add another 170k by "purchasing" 2007 and 2008 usage rights. It's 88k SPG per year for $1,800 per year of the usage you want to convert. Since they are pitching EOY usage starting in 2009, you do not lose any usage rights.

As for the property itself, I swore I would never buy a voluntary resort (I own resale WKORV OF) but the pricing seemed surprisingly reasonable and the incentives were pretty strong. I got a similar deal to what DavidandRobin did in that they retro'd my WKORV week, let me do an immediate explorer conversion package and threw in a ton of SPG points.

No question it's a bit of a gamble in terms of resale, but I think it's going to be a very different resort when compared to WKORV in that we're talking something like 180 units on 18 acres compared to roughly 560 units on 16 acres (WKORV and WKORV-N). Either way for us, we love the north shore, have no problem with the beachfront access, and have no intention of trading the unit. While the units are going to be in the style of WKORV-N each side of the lockoff is going to be slightly larger, roughly 50sq ft on each side.

Anyway, we agonized over the decision but the EOY pricing seemed somewhat reasonable and the incentives were strong and it came down to the cardinal rule: buy where you want to go and this was a place we think we'll want to go.
 
dss said:
To clarify post number 7 (which influenced Rockys reply), the SPG incentive for WPORV is actually 70k for existing owners. You can then add another 170k by "purchasing" 2007 and 2008 usage rights. It's 88k SPG per year for $1,800 per year of the usage you want to convert. Since they are pitching EOY usage starting in 2009, you do not lose any usage rights.

As for the property itself, I swore I would never buy a voluntary resort (I own resale WKORV OF) but the pricing seemed surprisingly reasonable and the incentives were pretty strong. I got a similar deal to what DavidandRobin did in that they retro'd my WKORV week, let me do an immediate explorer conversion package and threw in a ton of SPG points.

No question it's a bit of a gamble in terms of resale, but I think it's going to be a very different resort when compared to WKORV in that we're talking something like 180 units on 18 acres compared to roughly 560 units on 16 acres (WKORV and WKORV-N). Either way for us, we love the north shore, have no problem with the beachfront access, and have no intention of trading the unit. While the units are going to be in the style of WKORV-N each side of the lockoff is going to be slightly larger, roughly 50sq ft on each side.

Anyway, we agonized over the decision but the EOY pricing seemed somewhat reasonable and the incentives were strong and it came down to the cardinal rule: buy where you want to go and this was a place we think we'll want to go.
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I just took it at face value when the salesman said starwood was offering "a quarter million" starpoints for purchasing princeville. I never asked for details since I wasn't interested in purchasing. Thanks to dss for clarifying.
 
Here's how the large point incentives work. I just went to the WMH owners update and they tried to sell Desert Willow.

Purchase incentive: 144,000
Buy today while staying at WMH incentive: 30,000
Buy Explorer package ($1,600) and use today: 50,000 (price can be applied to purchase)
2008 pay maint fee ($1300) before built: 72,000
2009 pay maint fee ($1300) before built: 72.000

TOTAL TO YOU: 368,000 starpoints

This is how the Princeville incentive would work also.

BY THE WAY: Westin Mission Hills HOTEL is going to have a $100 million renovation. Desert Willow will NOT have a W hotel. I would much rather own WMH and be next to a great renovated hotel!
 
In August, 2006, the retail price for WPORV was $47,500; today it is reported to be $49,000. That price increases have been minimal compared to the multiple and substantial price increases at WKORV-N suggests that Princeville sales are poor (at least relative to Maui).

Further, pre-construction prices (e.g. 2006) are generally favorable, so Starwood's inability or unwillingness to increase prices now that the Princeville property is partially complete is especially telling.
 
vacationtime1 said:
In August, 2006, the retail price for WPORV was $47,500; today it is reported to be $49,000.
Click to expand...

The current price of EY WPORV is $49,900.
EOY for current SVO owners is $25,000

Sales have been open for about 18-20 months
 
duke said:
The current price of EY WPORV is $49,900.
EOY for current SVO owners is $25,000
Click to expand...

Even so, that represents only a 5% price increase in the past 20 months. WKORV-N prices have increased by at least 25% (probably more) during the same time span. The island view units at the Maui property now sell for 25% more than the ocean view units at Princeville when their retail price was initially less (everything in Princeville is sold as an ocean view; some units also have stupendous views of Bali Hai).

I don't have a horse in this race; I own neither. But it is interesting when Starwood gives us reliable feedback on the market as it sees it.
 
I have a horse in both races...

It is fuzzy math - based on inventory and whether they are truly selling IVs for $65K (they tell me my OF sales for ~$90K - yes, i know this is a lie...). SVO says that is the asking price, but is anyone actually paying this? $65K for an IV WKORVN? That is close to what OFs were selling for! (w/ same MFs) Also, they started selling WKORV-N before WPORV and there is are 3 view-types at WKORV-N (vs. 1 at WPORV).

Maui and Kauai are very different places - heck, north and south Kauai are different... the comparison is tough - the resort types are different - in the long-run - the value will be what the resales are going for. I believe very little about what they claim - and if true - there are WKORVN-IV resales out there for a little over $30K - are they using a ROFR? (unlikely...). How much will WPORV be when the inventory gets low? Fuzzy math...

I went in assuming up to a $10K loss for our EOY WPORV... but not going to worry about it until... 2013/15...?
 
duke said:
BY THE WAY: Westin Mission Hills HOTEL is going to have a $100 million renovation. Desert Willow will NOT have a W hotel. I would much rather own WMH and be next to a great renovated hotel!
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If I remember correctly, didn't Host Properties/Marriott buy Mission Hills? And if yes, after the renovation will they rebrand the hotel?
 
tomandrobin said:
If I remember correctly, didn't Host Properties/Marriott buy Mission Hills? And if yes, after the renovation will they rebrand the hotel?
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Yes you are correct WMH hotel was sold as part of the package by Starwood. Starwood has a 20 year management agreement. So, I guess Host will pay for the renovation and Westin/Starwood will keep the brand and manage the hotel.
 
Where are people getting the money for these? We started buying timeshares in 1985 and now have to sell some because the HOA/Mgt. fees have gotten too great. Wait until these owners see their fees jump :eek:
 
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