Knowledgeable honest salesperson/great trade

I like to share what's good and right with Marriott --

One month ago we bought a Shadow Ridge Platinum from Marriott (stop groaning -- we love those points; we did the math) and the salesperson (who also owns there and who we really liked) told us that "without a doubt -- no problem" we could trade the 1 bedroom for a late summer Newport Coast. She had done it twice herself. Quite a promise, I thought. I'm not sure Marriott would want to have salespeople promising that a particular trade could happen.

But -- she was right.

I deposited my 1 bedroom Shadow Ridge 2 weeks ago, the moment it closed, and my trade came through yesterday for NCV for August 31, 2007 -- Labor Day Week!! We're using the Shadow Ridge lockoff in March (we love Palm Desert but never again in the summer) and we got an AC for the deposit so -- life is good.

We are relatively new to timesharing. I am sorry we did not know about it years ago.

I find my Shadow Ridge Week trades great, too...

Have fun at Newport Coast Villas. We have traded there twice so far. We are going again in June of next year.

If there were a 2nd week we'd like to purchase, it would be Shadow Ridge. Stayed there Memorial Week and loved it!

Congrats on your trade to Newport Coast. Stayed there on a preview package and also have a trade for next summer...

Grace

One month ago we bought a Shadow Ridge Platinum from Marriott (stop groaning -- we love those points; we did the math)

Mind telling the rest of the price and the points offered?

ArBravesFan said:

One month ago we bought a Shadow Ridge Platinum from Marriott (stop groaning -- we love those points; we did the math)

Mind telling the rest of the price and the points offered?

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Not at all -- I am not at home now -- will look up my contract for exact price. In the 20"s. Maybe someone else has price information. Total points (including giving up 2006 usage and self referral ) were 290,000 -- plus 22,000 for charging as much as they would allow on my Marriott credit card.

Buying directly from Marriott

pacheco18 said:

Not at all -- I am not at home now -- will look up my contract for exact price. In the 20"s. Maybe someone else has price information. Total points (including giving up 2006 usage and self referral ) were 290,000 -- plus 22,000 for charging as much as they would allow on my Marriott credit card.

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There are many places on this BBS that advise buying a resale unit, but I agree with Pacheco. You get what you pay for, and there are some advantages to buying directly from Marriott so that you can take advantage of the points program. If you buy in the resale market, you will NOT be able to take Marriott points.

Here is my own experience. Pacheco likely paid more than I did, because they bought a Platinum week (I own a white week at DSV 2). But of course their Platinum week should have more trading power, and be worth more points, than my white week.

I bought a unit at DSV 2 in Palm Desert in 2004. You get extra points for the purchase, and even more points if you finance the purchase. (I had the cash, and I just paid off my purchase loan as soon as I could, but I still got the points). I paid in the mid-$18,000 range for a week in the white season (DSV 2 has red, white, and blue seasons) back in 2004. The price would be a bit higher today.

My wife and I enjoy international travel. In 2005, we had enough points to trade for a 1 week hotel stay in Rome at the Marriott Grand Flora. That was just a wonderful week. My hotel bill at check out was $3 because they sent a fax for me. The typical room rate was $440 per night at that time.

My points reaccumulated. Now, I have enough points that I am holding a reservation for summer 2007. I have a 1 week stay reserved at the Marriott Hotel in Paris on the Champs Elysees, followed by 4 more days at the Renaissance in Prague. I will "pay" for both of those stays with my points. This will again clean out my points account, but I should be able to reaccumulate points and take another nice trip in a few years.

I take points (rather than my timeshare usage) every other year. In the in-between years, I lock out my 2 BR unit and get 2 weeks that I can then use or trade for timeshare stays. So I feel that I've got the best of both worlds. I'm able to use my timeshare AND I get points that I can trade for international travel. International hotels can be very expensive, so this saves me money. And we get to stay at first class places, which I know pleases her immensely.

If you want to build your points account, make sure to sign up for a Marriott Rewards VISA card. There are several types of cards available, with different fees and different rules about rewards. One that is interesting (which I do not currently have myself) is the Marriott Rewards Premier VISA Signature card. It's possible to search on the Web for the different types of rewards cards available and read the information provided.

There are times and situations where the points make sense (if you purchase pre-construction especially).

There are times you're nuts to buy from the developer or to trade your week for points (since in some cases you're trading a 2BR unit for only part of the cost of a week in a hotel room).

Personally, I can make a strong case that it's usually better to buy resale, but it all depends on the specific situations.

GetawaysRus said:

There are many places on this BBS that advise buying a resale unit, but I agree with Pacheco. You get what you pay for, and there are some advantages to buying directly from Marriott so that you can take advantage of the points program. If you buy in the resale market, you will NOT be able to take Marriott points.

Here is my own experience. Pacheco likely paid more than I did, because they bought a Platinum week (I own a white week at DSV 2). But of course their Platinum week should have more trading power, and be worth more points, than my white week.

I bought a unit at DSV 2 in Palm Desert in 2004. You get extra points for the purchase, and even more points if you finance the purchase. (I had the cash, and I just paid off my purchase loan as soon as I could, but I still got the points). I paid in the mid-$18,000 range for a week in the white season (DSV 2 has red, white, and blue seasons) back in 2004. The price would be a bit higher today.

My wife and I enjoy international travel. In 2005, we had enough points to trade for a 1 week hotel stay in Rome at the Marriott Grand Flora. That was just a wonderful week. My hotel bill at check out was $3 because they sent a fax for me. The typical room rate was $440 per night at that time.

My points reaccumulated. Now, I have enough points that I am holding a reservation for summer 2007. I have a 1 week stay reserved at the Marriott Hotel in Paris on the Champs Elysees, followed by 4 more days at the Renaissance in Prague. I will "pay" for both of those stays with my points. This will again clean out my points account, but I should be able to reaccumulate points and take another nice trip in a few years.

I take points (rather than my timeshare usage) every other year. In the in-between years, I lock out my 2 BR unit and get 2 weeks that I can then use or trade for timeshare stays. So I feel that I've got the best of both worlds. I'm able to use my timeshare AND I get points that I can trade for international travel. International hotels can be very expensive, so this saves me money. And we get to stay at first class places, which I know pleases her immensely.

If you want to build your points account, make sure to sign up for a Marriott Rewards VISA card. There are several types of cards available, with different fees and different rules about rewards. One that is interesting (which I do not currently have myself) is the Marriott Rewards Premier VISA Signature card. It's possible to search on the Web for the different types of rewards cards available and read the information provided.

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Unfortunately it still would have been cheaper for you to buy a resale and payy for your hotel rooms.

In rare cases buying from the developer makes sense, in your case it doesnt. $18000 for a white week is way beyond making sense to get the points. In the past there have been platinum sales that have gotten 500,000 points with purchases where it makes sense.

If you feel it was worth it then I assume your looking to spend another $18,000 on a white week. Seriously though, advising readers of this board that purchasing an $18,000 white week from the developer is a good thing to do is very bad advice.

Many of us have made mistakes buying from the developer, yet instead of trying to justify it, we live with the mistake and help others to avoid doing the same thing.

I agree that it's not so straightforward to add the pros and the cons of the dollars. Here is how I look at it. (I'll make up some numbers.)

If one purchases from the developer, admittedly you lose money if you later need to resell. That loss would likely be on the order of 50% or a bit higher. So if one pays the developer $20K, and if you need to resell, let's say you lose $10,000. That's a clear loser. Conclusion: don't buy from the developer if there is a chance that you might end up reselling sometime soon - you'll lose your shorts at the time of resale.

If one purchases from the developer and is then able to make use of the program, a main part of the cost becomes the money that would have been lost. Rather than spend $20K, that money could have been invested or used for other purposes. If there are other needs that are greater, then spending any amount on a timeshare purchase (either from the developer or in the aftermarket) is foolish. If invested rather than spent, and assuming a 4% after tax return each year, $20,000 would yield about $800 in interest per year. If that $800 is spent (let's say on hotel rooms), you will continue to earn your $800 interest per year. If that $800 is added to the $20K base amount each year, then the interest will compound and the $20,000 will grow.

Remember, however, that you might have paid $10,000 for the same unit in the aftermarket. So, the extra $10,000 paid to the developer gets you into the points program and enables significant flexibility in travel. The "cost" of the extra $10,000 paid to the developer (compared to an after-market purchase) is $400 per year (at the anticipated 4% after-tax return figure that I used). You could use a higher after-tax return figure than I am using, but this means that you must be a much more aggressive investor than I (and the stock market hasn't been all that hot lately).

$400 after tax doesn't seem like a large sum of money when balanced against the flexibility I am getting in planning travel both now and in the future. I think I'm getting more than $400 of added use per year from the points program. Even that $800 figure above doesn't look all too bad to me.

And no, I'm not interested to purchase another week. What I already have gives me sufficient travel time and flexibility. I'd rather spend my other funds on other things.

I did mull this over for some time before making the timeshare purchase. You're welcome to show me the flaw in this thinking. (And nope, I don't work for Marriott.) Also, I do agree that if you purchase a timeshare because your main interest is using the actual timeshare (rather than using the points system to sometimes swap for hotel rooms as I do), then you would be foolish to purchase from the developer.

If you are looking for Hotel use EOY.. I would be more inclined to look at the Hilton program. You can still buy it for 50% of the developer cost, however unlike the Marriott, Hilton resales still allow you to convert your week to Honors points.

Hilton has some great European Hotels..

There is no right or wrong way to buy timeshares. For some, the developer option is preferable; for others, resale is the way to go. It's a personal choice. The ONLY wrong way to buy is without knowing all your options and analyzing them in light of your personal situation, wants and needs.

I personally don't care for the "attacks" I sometimes see on these boards against those who choose to buy from the developer. Live and let live.

pacheco18 said:

There is no right or wrong way to buy timeshares. For some, the developer option is preferable; for others, resale is the way to go. It's a personal choice. The ONLY wrong way to buy is without knowing all your options and analyzing them in light of your personal situation, wants and needs.
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Very well said.

The developer sales vs resell debate has been a longstanding debate here and on the other TS boards. I think the things that may matter most are :

1. How much of a discount can you get by buying resale?

When that discount is 50% or less, then looking at what extras the developer offers may be wise but when the discount is over 70% or more seldom are the developer purchase benefits worth it.

2. What exactly are the developer benefits?

When the developer offers a true benefit like hotel reward point, or in the case of Starwood where many resales don't come with the SVN, so internal starwood trading is lost. These benefits are worth looking at. Other offerings are much less inviting. Like HGVC elite or FF VIP which seem to be to be of little worth.

I'm glad to see that others (like the original poster) have had good trades also with Marriott Shadow Ridge. That's where we bought. Sometimes I read some of these posts and think maybe we could have done "better" by buying into the resale market. But considering that we bought when MSR first opened (I mean like the second week!), it was very reasonable, we've had great trades, and we're around 300,000 points now. So I guess it's a matter or what works best for each person.

pacheco18 said:

There is no right or wrong way to buy timeshares. For some, the developer option is preferable; for others, resale is the way to go. It's a personal choice. The ONLY wrong way to buy is without knowing all your options and analyzing them in light of your personal situation, wants and needs.

I personally don't care for the "attacks" I sometimes see on these boards against those who choose to buy from the developer. Live and let live.

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very well said

Personally, GetawayRus, I did very much the same thing and have more than offset our purchases in savings from the Marriott point program. All but one of our weeks were purchased developer. We have used the rewards program extensively.

Our next time share will be purchased resale at our favorite resort. The reason for this is that one will be one we will never trade or turn in for points because we will always be going there. My husband and I are ones for options and have done well. Others are not sold on points and of course that is okay. What ever serves your goals is good. I do not think you made a bad choice.

Enjoy Europe, we liked the Champs Elysees very much when we were there with 2 rooms on points during our month long European trip for four back in 2001. At that time this hotel was ~$500 (US) a night per room, and the County Hall in London was ~$670 (US) for 10 days ...

Hopefully you have considered the travel packages so you get the airfare free too.

Beverley

ArBravesFan said:

One month ago we bought a Shadow Ridge Platinum from Marriott (stop groaning -- we love those points; we did the math)

Mind telling the rest of the price and the points offered?

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At the time of our purchase (mid July) prices were as follows:

Platinum Plus 28,900 120,000 points
Platinum 27,150 110,000 points
Gold 18,400 75,000 points
Silver 12,900 40,000 points

These are 2 bedroom lockoffs and you can trade for points every year if you want.

Excellent comment.

Much as I enjoy TUG I'm sure glad I didn't know about it when I bought my first timeshare (Marriott Manor Club) when it was just getting underway. I was thrilled with my purchase and it came with what was called then - a 'world trip for two' which I initially thought it was a sham...and besides, the points idea was not the reason I bought direct.

As someTuggers might say - I didn't know any better or that one could save thousands buying resale ... and it might have hurt to be told by the experts how 'foolish' I was after spending the money. If I had asked for advice before buying, the 'buy resale' cry would come out loud and clear and I would have missed out on the incredible benefits of Marriott Rewards.

Even though I respect their opinions, I don't like to see fellow Tuggers jump all over a newbie who purchased direct, almost mocking the decision. I'm sure they mean well with their opinion, but the timing is off once the deed has been done.

Part of the buying decision is what might be important to you tomorrow. For me, raising 3 kids on my own we really enjoyed the space of timeshares. But something happened - my kids grew up and left the nest and my holiday needs changed. Now I don't need 2 bdrm suites...but I really really want to see the world in a way that I could never do before as a single parent.

So why did I buy 5 Marriotts direct? For the points, and the travel I wanted to do. Once I took my initial 'world trip' I wanted more! Every year now I turn in 2 weeks for 220,000 points and every 2nd year (with the 440,000 points) take a 2 week trip with business class seats many people could only dream about - all because of Marriott Rewards. In between I've got the other timeshares to use. It was all part of my plan...and I work the plan to my advantage. Had I bought resale I could NEVER turn them in for points - what a loss that would have been to me IMO.

You made the decision. Only time will decide how good it was for you, but I'll bet you'll be as happy with the MR program as I am. Study it and enjoy it. Start planning your next trip.

Brian

pacheco18 said:

There is no right or wrong way to buy timeshares. For some, the developer option is preferable; for others, resale is the way to go. It's a personal choice. The ONLY wrong way to buy is without knowing all your options and analyzing them in light of your personal situation, wants and needs.

I personally don't care for the "attacks" I sometimes see on these boards against those who choose to buy from the developer. Live and let live.

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Bravo, Brian

Two business class tickets to Europe can be worth a small fortune. Last summer we flew to Germany business class using miles -- price of the two tickets on line was $14,000!

The really grand hotels in Europe can easily cost $500 a night -- especially with the weak dollar. Two weeks -- $7000.

So a two week trip to Europe flying business class and staying in a deluxe hotel could easily cost $21,000. I realize that not everyone travels that way, but obviously Brian does and we do too. For us, points are really valuable.

We have both sides of the argument in this thread, but the truth of the matter is both positions can be accurate. It all depends on your travel profile, and your ability to travel short notice, and/or be OK with off-season accomodations.

If you can travel short notice, and don't mind shoulder season, there are so many great deals out there, that you don't need to buy a timeshare, let alone one from a developer.

Now is you can't travel short notice, and are following the school calendar, then the Marriott program can be very valuable. I have to follow the school calendar, and plan way out, to secure FF seats, and accomodations during holiday weeks, when tickets and resorts are at their most expensive.

I have flown my family of four, 1st class to Maui twice already, with another scheduled for Feb 07. I also still have enough miles for 2 more such trips, all free. I've also gotten 5 or 6 cat 6 hotel certs, which I've turned into big value.

So it all depends on how you like to travel and when. For sure, some people can really get tremendous value from points, and when truly maximized, as in all the cases mentioned above, exceed in value the delta between dev and reseller is. For other profiles, who don't need to go to Maui in Feb, can't maximize the points, and therefore would never consider Dev pricing, which is the right approach under that scenerio.

Regards.
Joe

Interesting to read this. I enjoy the points program, but I'm starting to understand better why others on TUG are not fans of buying from the developer.

My employer requires that I submit any vacation plans at least 3 months ahead of time. This makes it extremely difficult for me to take advantage of last minute exchanges unless I get very lucky (and something happens to come up for the particular week I am holding as a vacation week). So I tend to plan my vacations way,way in advance. (I'm just tidying up my final plans for my summer 2007 European vacation.)

And yes, my wife strongly prefers that we fly business class when possible on long flights. I'd have difficulty justifying the expense of business class seats without the points program.

So the Marriott points program works quite well for me.

I would love to read a thread somewhere here on TUG (perhaps someone can direct me to one, or initiate a thread) with tips and tricks on how those who use the points program made best use of their points.

There are dozens of threads on the subject of using MR points so your searching the TUG Marriott board will be fruitful.

Using points means you do have to think ahead ... in fact 330 days ahead to have the best chance of getting air passage where and when you want to go...same for hotels. The best go early. And using the packages - air & hotel - from Marriott is the most efficient use of your points, even if you don't use the 7-nite hotel certificate at the same time as the trip...it's almost like getting the FF miles free compared to getting air or hotel on points separately.

Brian