New DC Status Tiers effective 4/30/15

puckmanfl · Feb 2, 2015

good evening

Boy, would I be angry If I purchased a small package to become PP... They dropped the points for the only major benefit of old PP to 7K

yikes..luckily, I didn't top off...but I know some that did...

Superchief · Feb 2, 2015

I am Premier Plus with 13800 points and look forward to being Chariman. The ability to bank for 2 yr is a big bonus, although the 13 month 1+ benefit will now be greatly diluted. I wonder if there will be any change in points rental opportunities.

SueDonJ · Feb 2, 2015

suzannesimon said:
I can see I'm going to have a problem now booking my resale week that isn't on the Point system . I can't book until 12 months out and with all the additional owners being able to book at 13 months, it could get difficult. You're right: It will also be a great selling feature to the basic "Owner" level when they find everything is gone by 12 months.

Say there are 100 Weeks, 50 enrolled and 50 unenrolled. Of the 50 enrolled only 25 are converted to Points. That means 75 Weeks can ultimately be used as home reservations in the Weeks system, which means that Marriott must leave 75 Weeks available for those Owners. As long as the Owners comply with the reservation rules and don't choose other usage (MRP exchange, II deposit, etc) there will be 75 intervals available for their use regardless of how many II exchangers or DC Points users (Trust or Exchange Members) want to exchange into the same interval type.

What we don't know is how Marriott allocates the 75 intervals that they have to make available to those Weeks owners, whether it's based on a strict percentage basis of every week in the season, on a first-come-first-serve basis as requested, or something else. But the availability metric hasn't ever been publicized by Marriott so we have no reason to believe that the DC impacts it any more negatively than before. It still comes down to compliance with the Weeks governing documents, which protect usage rights for Weeks Owners who choose to use their Weeks at their home resorts and follow the rules to reserve them.

Superchief · Feb 2, 2015

It will be interesting to see if the ability to bank points for longer time periods will encourage more people to book more high point vacation packages. I bet MVC is counting on that.

JIMinNC · Feb 2, 2015

As a relatively new owner with only 3375 DC points (combined Legacy and Trust from a small combo purchase), the biggest concern for me is the impact on availability at the 12-month window. This will expand the number of people who can book with no points premium at the 13 month window and the number who can book less than 7 nights prior to the 10 month window.

It's obviously a tactic to get base-tier owners like me to buy up to at least 4,000, but at a cost of $12,000+ for a minimum 1,000 point purchase, that's not a very attractive option.

This is clearly a devaluation of the DC for smaller points owners and new owners, but appears to be a positive change for Legacy owners who were able to immediately get Premier and Premier Plus status when they enrolled their multiple weeks back at the start of the DC.

Unfortunately, I don't see an obvious strategy to counterbalance this devaluation. Renting points doesn't help because we are still restricted to the least favorable reservation windows - with a lot more people in the pecking order ahead of us now.

Ugh!

SueDonJ · Feb 2, 2015

SMB1 said:
Hmmm. I will enjoy the 1+ nights at 13 months. But if you are right, this is a little disappointing. I've taken advantage of the 40% (30% + 10%) several times. At first glance was thinking I would get the 45%. If you're right, it'll be 35%

Yep. We've used that 45% discount quite a bit and will miss it. In all the previous versions of the "Benefits At A Glance" chart the footnote was that the DC cash discount would be increased 10% if the Chase Marriott VISA is used. Now the footnote is that no other discounts will apply.

I wonder if this is more a function of MVW no longer under the MI umbrella, maybe the long-term contract with Chase has been recently renewed under the MVW umbrella? If that's the reason then I'd expect the 10% additional when using "MOD" is also ending.

Stinks to lose it.

SueDonJ · Feb 2, 2015

Superchief said:
It will be interesting to see if the ability to bank points for longer time periods will encourage more people to book more high point vacation packages. I bet MVC is counting on that.

I'll definitely be using the 2-year banking option because our vacation plans are so up in the air for these next two years, but you're right that it'll really be attractive to those who want to use Explorer Collection and other high-Points options.

On May 1 I'll be first in line to try to bank what's in our account now ahead two years.

Fairwinds · Feb 2, 2015

JIMinNC said:
As a relatively new owner with only 3375 DC points (combined Legacy and Trust from a small combo purchase), the biggest concern for me is the impact on availability at the 12-month window. This will expand the number of people who can book with no points premium at the 13 month window and the number who can book less than 7 nights prior to the 10 month window.

It's obviously a tactic to get base-tier owners like me to buy up to at least 4,000, but at a cost of $12,000+ for a minimum 1,000 point purchase, that's not a very attractive option.

This is clearly a devaluation of the DC for smaller points owners and new owners, but appears to be a positive change for Legacy owners who were able to immediately get Premier and Premier Plus status when they enrolled their multiple weeks back at the start of the DC.

Unfortunately, I don't see an obvious strategy to counterbalance this devaluation. Renting points doesn't help because we are still restricted to the least favorable reservation windows - with a lot more people in the pecking order ahead of us now.

Ugh!

I don't think You'll be effected at all. I dont see where they have changed the number of intervals that are available at 13 months but only the number of owners who have 13 month access. So it may be more difficult for 13 month elegable owners to book at 13 months but the same number of weeks should open up at the 12 month mark. I guess we'll see.

Fairwinds · Feb 2, 2015

SueDonJ said:
I'll definitely be using the 2-year banking option because our vacation plans are so up in the air for these next two years, but you're right that it'll really be attractive to those who want to use Explorer Collection and other high-Points options.

On May 1 I'll be first in line to try to bank what's in our account now ahead two years.

If you bank out two years are the points then available only in that year? A nice option would be for those of you who have the two year option a little more flexability by allowing you to borrow back one year.

dioxide45 · Feb 2, 2015

Fairwinds said:
If you bank out two years are the points then available only in that year? A nice option would be for those of you who have the two year option a little more flexability by allowing you to borrow back one year.

I think if you bank 2015 points, you can then use them in either 2016 or 2017. With the Presidential level being able to bank out 1.5 years, I don't see them tying your banked points to a specific use year.

Fairwinds · Feb 2, 2015

dioxide45 said:
I think if you bank 2015 points, you can then use them in either 2016 or 2017. With the Presidential level being able to bank out 1.5 years, I don't see them tying your banked points to a specific use year.

Good point. Very nice option

JIMinNC · Feb 2, 2015

Fairwinds said:
I don't think You'll be effected at all. I dont see where they have changed the number of intervals that are available at 13 months but only the number of owners who have 13 month access. So it may be more difficult for 13 month elegable owners to book at 13 months but the same number of weeks should open up at the 12 month mark. I guess we'll see.

Valid point, and if that's the case, I'm less concerned by the change. Although, with more people vying for inventory at the 13th month point, I could see where Marriott might feel the need to allocate more intervals to that window to keep their high point owners happy while adding "incentive" to upsell the owners in the lowest tier.

I don't believe I've ever seen a discussion of how much inventory currently gets made available at the 13 month vs. the 12 month window. Does anyone have an idea?

dioxide45 · Feb 2, 2015

JIMinNC said:
Valid point, and if that's the case, I'm less concerned by the change. Although, with more people vying for inventory at the 13th month point, I could see where Marriott might feel the need to allocate more intervals to that window to keep their high point owners happy while adding "incentive" to upsell the owners in the lowest tier.

I don't believe I've ever seen a discussion of how much inventory currently gets made available at the 13 month vs. the 12 month window. Does anyone have an idea?

According to the Exchange Procedures, it is 50%.

Exchange Company may limit the Use Periods and the Accommodations on a Component-by-Component basis that are available for reservation during the Priority 1 Period, and may withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component for reservation during other Reservation Windows, all as determined from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion.

JIMinNC · Feb 2, 2015

dioxide45 said:
According to the Exchange Procedures, it is 50%.

Exchange Company may limit the Use Periods and the Accommodations on a Component-by-Component basis that are available for reservation during the Priority 1 Period, and may withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component for reservation during other Reservation Windows, all as determined from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion.

It says "Up to" 50%. So as I read that they would have full discretion to make 100% available to Priority 1 and 0% available to Priority 2. They just can't allocate less than 50% to Priority 1. So if they opt to reduce availability at 12 months to increase availability for Priority 1, they are free to do so. That doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy...

MALC9990 · Feb 2, 2015

As a premier Plus enrolled owner, my booking experience has been that at 13 months there is little if any inventory available for booking at 13 months out, it all starts to appear at 12 months out. So to me the benefit of PP is being able to search for single days at 13 months out.

JIMinNC · Feb 2, 2015

MALC9990 said:
As a premier Plus enrolled owner, my booking experience has been that at 13 months there is little if any inventory available for booking at 13 months out, it all starts to appear at 12 months out. So to me the benefit of PP is being able to search for single days at 13 months out.

Since I think we all can see 13-month inventory now (some of us just see it with the 20% premium added), I have noticed the same thing when browsing availability - 13 month inventory seems limited. So I've always been confused on how that inventory allocation really works in practice. It's even more confusing when reading the quote from the program docs that dioxide posted, as that would seem to say that the rules require that at least 50% be made available to Priority 1

MALC9990 · Feb 3, 2015

JIMinNC said:
Since I think we all can see 13-month inventory now (some of us just see it with the 20% premium added), I have noticed the same thing when browsing availability - 13 month inventory seems limited. So I've always been confused on how that inventory allocation really works in practice. It's even more confusing when reading the quote from the program docs that dioxide posted, as that would seem to say that the rules require that at least 50% be made available to Priority 1

Yes, but 50% of what? In the same way that multiple weeks owners have 13 month booking privilege, only 50% of weeks inventory at a resort is released for 13 month reservation by calling in to book multiple weeks. So for points inventory only 50% is released. That inventory, surely can only come from Trust owned weeks at a resort, and any weeks given up by an enrolled weeks owner in exchange for DC Points. Hence the limited availability at 13 months.

dioxide45 · Feb 3, 2015

MALC9990 said:
Yes, but 50% of what? In the same way that multiple weeks owners have 13 month booking privilege, only 50% of weeks inventory at a resort is released for 13 month reservation by calling in to book multiple weeks. So for points inventory only 50% is released. That inventory, surely can only come from Trust owned weeks at a resort, and any weeks given up by an enrolled weeks owner in exchange for DC Points. Hence the limited availability at 13 months.

That is exactly the issue. We don't really know what the 50% is from? It could be from two weeks or it could be from several hundred. With weeks it was easy, there were x number of units available and 50% were available at 13 months and the other 50% at 12. With DC points it could be 50% of 0. Though that would be rare.

GreenTea · Feb 3, 2015

Can members get on wait lists at 13 months that would pick up the rooms released at 12 months before regular owners had a shot?

puckmanfl · Feb 3, 2015

good morning...

Not to keep beating on this...

anyone who "topped" off with a small points package to become PP , just got seriously "stiffed" Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....

not sure the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...

SueDonJ · Feb 3, 2015

GreenTea said:
Can members get on wait lists at 13 months that would pick up the rooms released at 12 months before regular owners had a shot?

Right now the Waitlist Rules are the same for every DC Member and aren't based on status. Requests can be taken at the 12-mos window for stays of 7 days or more, and at the 10-mos window for stays of less than 7 days. The rules could change but there's no indication that they will.

Fasttr · Feb 3, 2015

JIMinNC said:
As a relatively new owner with only 3375 DC points (combined Legacy and Trust from a small combo purchase), the biggest concern for me is the impact on availability at the 12-month window. This will expand the number of people who can book with no points premium at the 13 month window and the number who can book less than 7 nights prior to the 10 month window.

It's obviously a tactic to get base-tier owners like me to buy up to at least 4,000, but at a cost of $12,000+ for a minimum 1,000 point purchase, that's not a very attractive option.

Assuming (and that's a big assumption) it becomes a necessity to snag inventory in the 13 month window, it certainly doesn't make sense to buy a 1000 points package for $12K plus MF to give you the ability. Just pay the 20% point premium and rent the points you may need to do so. Say its a 3,375 point ressie (using the number of points you own as the example), the 20% point premium is an extra 675 points, which would cost you approx. $375 to rent at todays rental prices. The MF's on the extra 1000 points would cost you more than that, AND you still have the $12K in your pocket.

nakyak · Feb 3, 2015

After MVW devalued the Ritz program they have moved on to further devaluing the premier plus benefits.

One really should start to question why they should bump up to these different levels when we have seen Marriott water down the benefits to owners of lesser tiers.

Fairwinds · Feb 3, 2015

puckmanfl said:
good morning...

Not to keep beating on this...

anyone who "topped" off with a small points package to become PP , just got seriously "stiffed" Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....

not sure the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...

Personal opinion only, BUT, I don't know if they really got the shaft. They still have more points to use and have not lost the 1+ option. But this is my opinion only based on an underlying belief that benefits of increased ownership levels should be other than access to reservations. Increased MR points, trading for excursions, purchase discounts and so on. Access to a reservation IMHO should be equal for all owners. If you have the points or own the season you should have total access to that bucket of time. (My money is as green as yours kind of thing)

SueDonJ · Feb 3, 2015

puckmanfl said:
good morning...

Not to keep beating on this...

anyone who "topped" off with a small points package to become PP , just got seriously "stiffed" Basically, the only great PP benefit was less than 7 at 13 months... now almost every Premier gets that anyway....

not sure the banking and 35% is worht bumping up to Chairman...

nakyak1504 said:
After MVW devalued the Ritz program they have moved on to further devaluing the premier plus benefits.

One really should start to question why they should bump up to these different levels when we have seen Marriott water down the benefits to owners of lesser tiers.

I understand the thought process some have that these changes result in a "devaluation" because the pool of owners eligible for what are now Premier/Plus benefits will increase. But the reason I don't feel the same way is because nothing is being taken away from any Members. It's not a devaluation in the same sense as what happens in the MRP exchange program, for example, when changes to hotel/resort tiers result in Members not being able to book with the same amount of MRPs what they formerly could.

The Ritz-Carlton Members, IMO, have a legitimate beef with devaluation because their ownerships/resorts were ALWAYS touted as being a higher class of product than MVC, a separate and distinct class. In MVW the status tiers aren't touted as different classes/products, only that there are different rules/benefits according to status levels.

New DC Status Tiers effective 4/30/15

puckmanfl

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