New one from tele-sales

I have been thinking about getting an additonal timeshare. I had purchased a Marriott Sunset Point sport week 7 yrs ago from Marriott resales,Back then I paid 8900 for it. Today they are asking 12,900 for the same unit. I like how this trades and I also like the resort and its area. But I have also been thinking about getting 2 eoy weeks at 2 different resorts. Gold ocean point and platinum KoOlina, Grand Chateau or Shadow Ridge. I like all 4 of them. But I also thought about purchasing another sport week. I found a resale for 4200 at Sunset Point sport season but not from marriott reasale dept. This will give me a 13 mo window to get the June week there that trades the best and is also the time I love to go. I asked this tele-sale rep whay I should pay 12,900 for a unit that I can purchase for 4200. Besides trading for marriott points.

She replied that although not yet in writing Marriott in about 2 yrs will break off from II and do their own internal trades. Each marriott and season will be assigned a point value. Here is the kicker, only properties purchased from Marriott will be able to participate in this program. She said without this my resale would be worthless. I know this to not be true but do you think marriott will go to this type of system? I know if I purchase this 4200 resale it would not be worthless but it may hurt it value.
I replied that I would think this would hurt marriott if they did not include all units. As there have to be tons of resales if they chose not to use them they would not get their $$ for the exchanges and also it would hurt their pool of available units for their members to trade into.
She said if it would hurt Marriott they simply would not do it so my reasoning must be incorrect. Part of this may be true but are they just filling full of !@!@!@! so I purchase from them.
Any feelings?
Rod

Hi Rod,

If Marriott were to go to an internal exchange system such as the one described, and prohibit resale purchasers from using it, they would almost certainly have to grandfather in all of the current owners who purchased resale. The restriction would therefore be limited to new owners who buy after the new exchange program is in place. Otherwise, Marriott would face an enormous amount of ill will, anger, and probably lawsuits.

Steve

I am sure that you will still be able to belong to II or exchange with SFX but only the internal Marriott exchanges may be handled through Marriott. I hope they will do a better job than with the reserving of your own week.

Going over to a point-based system seems to be the future for everyone but why would they be selling fixed units/fixed weeks at the MOC? How are they going to handle that? Just curious.

Steve said:

Hi Rod,

If Marriott were to go to an internal exchange system such as the one described, and prohibit resale purchasers from using it, they would almost certainly have to grandfather in all of the current owners who purchased resale. The restriction would therefore be limited to new owners who buy after the new exchange program is in place. Otherwise, Marriott would face an enormous amount of ill will, anger, and probably lawsuits.

Steve

Click to expand...

Steve, don't you think that this is all speculation so far? If it were true, the re-sale prices will jump considerably between now and when this would materialize which is great if you want to sell. JMHO, of course as it is pure speculation too.

I think it is all salesman talk to try to get you to buy from them. When I canceled a purchase from Marriott to buy resale the salesman told me my resale unit would be worthless, and Marriott will not treat me the same as a retail buyer. As we all know Marriott treats us all the same with the expectation on trading for points.

Most of the Marriott resorts are sold out, so if Marriott did what they explained to you their customers that paid a premium to buy from them would have a hard time exchanging into them. The owners that had bought resale would have less incentive to remain brand loyal.

If anything I would think that retail buyers may get a new added feature of trading in a points system for other resorts.

My question is WHY?

Why would Marriott move to a points-based system, and exclude the large number of resale owners to boot? I've had great success trading my week to other Marriott properties, and I'm not sure a points based system works any better. If you read the posts on the Hotel-based forum, you'll find that the StarOptions system offered by Starwood does not always work well, and often requires owners to make numerous calls to get an exchange to another Starwood resort.

Admittedly, I am attracted to a points-based exchange system if it works, but will a Platinum Grande Vista have the same points as a Platinum Hawaii week? Not likely, and that means that Grande Vista owners have very little chance to trade into Hawaii.

Of course, much of this is crazy speculation. But if true, I still don't get WHY?

And here's some food for thought...

I was visiting Timber Lodge earlier this week and the sales rep gave me a brand-new MVCI brochure, with descriptions and color pics of every MVCI resort, including Frenchman's Cove (very beautiful publication). After reading this thread, I took a look at that brochure.

Previous materials from Marriott have described the Internal and External Exchange available through II. But this new brochure states that you can exchange "within the Marriott Vacation Club network" (no mention of II), or exchange to over 2000 II resorts worldwide.

I hate to make a conclusion based on a lack of evidence, but the copy in this brochure certainly seems to confirm a change in direction... Just adding more speculation for pondering...

Emmy, It's definitely all speculation. I think there's a good chance that Marriott will just leave things the way they are in regards to exchanging. I would be happy if they did...as II works very well for me.

msweaver, if Marriott does develop an internal trading system, then I think that a platinum Grande Vista WILL be worth the same amount as a platinum Hawaii week. I think that's the only way Marriott would be able to implement a new system without a major revolt by owners.

If you look at Hilton and Hyatt, all of their platinum weeks (and gold, silver, etc, respectively) are worth the same amount...regardless of the resort where you own. I think it's the only practical way to implement a points system on an existing timeshare network as big as Marriott's. Otherwise, all the platinum owners who suddenly can't trade into Hawaii (or wherever) with their platinum week from a different location will be up in arms...and rightfully so.

The people who are most at risk of losing trade power in the event of a Marriott conversion to an internal trade system, IMHO, are owners of high demand gold weeks...such as gold at Grande Ocean and Ocean Pointe. These owners currently enjoy very high trade power in II...as II doesn't go by Marriott's seasons. You can be sure, though, that if Marriott develops their own exchange network based on points, they will use the Marriott seasons. If this happens, then gold owners will have to pay extra to stay during platinum season...regardless of the popularity of the individual weeks involved in the exchange. That's just how points systems work.

Steve

Steve

Marriott will move to an internal trading sysytem in the future. Why? Money. Why have II collecting membership fees and exchange fees when Marriott can profit from it. Starwood and Disney both pocket the exchange fees, and only use II when necessary (and deposit less demanded weeks).

Marriott wants control, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. It may hurt those of us that are the most saavy though.

As I reported here a few months ago, Marriott is in the early stages of developing an internal trading mechanism that would be handled without II. The implementation is still several years away.

However, Marriott will not "break away" from II. Marriott will need II for owners who choose to exchange into non-Marriotts.

This isn't a question of "if" it will happen, but "when" it will happen.

I recently made a direct exchange with Marriott's help and with my resale. This website (not meant to be in competition with TUG) allows this and it's great!

http://www.ownertrades.com/

Steve said:

msweaver, if Marriott does develop an internal trading system, then I think that a platinum Grande Vista WILL be worth the same amount as a platinum Hawaii week. I think that's the only way Marriott would be able to implement a new system without a major revolt by owners.

Steve

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If Marriott starts a new point system for their resorts and all Platinum weeks, wherever they may be, are treated equal, THEN you will see a revolt. This would fly in the face of "supply vs. demand", pricing paid by owners for these high demand weeks, etc.. I seriously doubt they could or would do this. There HAS to be some preference toward high demand/low supply resorts. If not, they are fighting economic nature and they are way too smart for that. I am not really opposed to an all-Marriott system, provided it is fair, flexible, and COSTS LESS THAN II!!!! If they hope to get II pricing, then what's the point for us owners?

MikeM132 said:

If Marriott starts a new point system for their resorts and all Platinum weeks, wherever they may be, are treated equal, THEN you will see a revolt. This would fly in the face of "supply vs. demand", pricing paid by owners for these high demand weeks, etc.. I seriously doubt they could or would do this. There HAS to be some preference toward high demand/low supply resorts. If not, they are fighting economic nature and they are way too smart for that. I am not really opposed to an all-Marriott system, provided it is fair, flexible, and COSTS LESS THAN II!!!! If they hope to get II pricing, then what's the point for us owners?

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This is very true. You cannot make a $20K Plat. week at Manor Club the same value as a $45K Plat week at Mountainside.

Dave M said:

As I reported here a few months ago, Marriott is in the early stages of developing an internal trading mechanism that would be handled without II. The implementation is still several years away.

However, Marriott will not "break away" from II. Marriott will need II for owners who choose to exchange into non-Marriotts.

This isn't a question of "if" it will happen, but "when" it will happen.

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Dave, what is your opinion about the 'grandfathering' of resale weeks into this new internal system?

Yes, they will have an internal exchange system soon. No, I don't know whether they will grandfather anyone in, but Marriott definitely knows who purchased through them and through the resale market, so if they decided to prevent external purchasers from moving into the system, I don't see why they could not do that.

But from my personal opinion, it does not seem like they will, the grandfathering scenerio sounds like a viable but not necessarily inevitable scenerio to me.

ShinjiIkari said:

Yes, they will have an internal exchange system soon. No, I don't know whether they will grandfather anyone in, but Marriott definitely knows who purchased through them and through the resale market, so if they decided to prevent external purchasers from moving into the system, I don't see why they could not do that.

But from my personal opinion, it does not seem like they will, the grandfathering scenerio sounds like a viable but not necessarily inevitable scenerio to me.

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In the case of Starwood, there are some resorts where owners who buy resale have the same privilages as those who purchased developer and some resorts where resale owners cannot paticipate in the internal "exchange" system. Does anyone know more about this? Are there legal requirements in some states that force the developer to allow resale owners to participate?

Regarding the posters who said it is not proper or feasible to make "lower" demand resorts the same value as the higher ones, it is both. Owning at the higher demand locations enables you to be guaranteed that you can go there and, with Starwood, to make your plans 12 months ahead. But once the eight month mark hits, points are points and if it's available, it's yours.

I own a Platinum 2 BR at Kierland Villas in Scottsdale that we love, but have traded twice within the eight month mark. First time was for St. John and the points for our two bedroom got us a three bedroom paradise that Westin wanted to sell to me for $122,000! The following year, I got a 2 BR at Harborside at Atlantis.

Those owners who feel that their higher value properties will not trade as well in the new rumored system will have much more luck reserving their week and trading it through an outside agency like SFX. It works well for many Starwood owners.

This sounds like a major disruption for Marriott, but fear not - it's worked well for other companies and there are ways around any perceived problem.

floyddl said:

You cannot make a $20K Plat. week at Manor Club the same value as a $45K Plat week at Mountainside.

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If you look at Hilton and Hyatt, this is exactly what they have done...and quite successfully. Every platinum week at every resort is worth the same number of points. The person who bought in Orlando for less than half the price of the person who bought in Hawaii has exactly the same trade power. I really think that's the direction that Marriott will need to go.

Steve

GrayFal said:

Dave, what is your opinion about the 'grandfathering' of resale weeks into this new internal system?

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My best info is that, contrary to some of what has been posted, there are no plans to exclude resale owners from Marriott's internal trading program. Think about it. If that happened, Marriott would in effect be saying that many people who now enjoy internal trading priority would no longer have priority under the new system. That would make no sense at all!

Also, if Marriott did exclude resale owners from trading priority, imagine what that would do to resale prices. Since Marriott needs high resale prices as one of the selling points for buying a Marriott, I don't think it will happen!

I agree with Dave; I doubt Marriott would seek to exclude any owners.....just like with the crazy seasonality at some resorts, if anything, they'll seek to include as many owners as possible

At the very most, they may provide some value-added benefits for developer owners, as they do currently (purchase incentives, point trades, etc). A variable fee structure and/or some point (timeshare, not hotel) perks might be a good place to start, if they move to a points system to interpret weeks.

Pat

msweaver: does your brochure have any website that we can go to to reprint it? If not, does it have a phone number and what is on the front cover if I were to call and request it. Thanks in advance

We own a membership in a points system. It's just small, west coast mostly but it could work for Marriott too. Each property (about 8 I think) has their own point value system. One resort would need 20 points for an Ocean Front, while another resort takes 15 points, depending on location. Season also comes into play. It seems pretty fair.

Cathyb said:

msweaver: does your brochure have any website that we can go to to reprint it? If not, does it have a phone number and what is on the front cover if I were to call and request it. Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think there is anything significant in the language of the brochure as presented here. It is just another way of describing the current system. We have the Marriott preference as well as lower exchange fees when we exchange into another Marriott, but we are members of II and have access to other II resorts.

I agree with Stefa. I think the wording in the brochure is an attempt to make it clear to those not familiar with the Marriott system that there is currently a method for internal trading. To include a discussion of how the II 24-day internal Marriott trade priority policy works would probably be overkill for a brochure.

Boy, this reminds me of kids playing telephone.....

Why?

First, I ask you how many publicly traded company's would openly discuss a business arrangement between it and other company's - - that has significant financial implications - - with its sales force, particularly if that company is in a discovery phase?

Second, how many years of research do you think a company like Marriott would consume investigating an arrangement like that referenced above?

Third, I wonder what distance exists between salespeople and the people investigating a situation like that referenced above?

Fourth, how great are the financial implications for Marriott and Interval International, and to what extent do the two intend to do business together moving forward?

Fifth, my suspicion, based on Marriott's financial performance, is that if they are in a due diligence phase, that little to no credible information would be disseminated to the salespeople. My opinion is that a situation like that described above has significant financial implications for both company's, and I would be very surprised if until such time as final agreements are reached, if any information coming from salespeople or for that matter anyone short of a very senior executive of the respective company's is believable or reliable.

Finally, I just don't understand how some of the posters can draw the conclusions or opinions that they have, but I respect their opinions and their rights to post their opinions. To me, these are highly speculative opinions, and it is my opinion that sustaining dialogue like that above is a greater dis-service then service.

Just my opinion.