Very dissatisfied owner. How do I get rid of my weeks?

I bought 2 weeks at Sabal Palms back in 1993. As a foreign owner who can not occupy or travel with the whole family every year, trading for Marriott Rewards Points was my main or almost exclusive alternative. In fact, the local MVCI reps focused all their sales pitch on what we could do with MRP we owners could get.

Years went by, and we still get the same 110,000 points which at moment allowed for a week at the nicest hotels in the world. After several devaluations and birth of new hotel categories, those same points barely pay for 2/3 nights at a nice hotel, meaning that the cost of each one is approximately $500 considering that we pay $1,400 in maintenance expenses and membership in the DC points system.

So, in 20 years, hotels have increased it cost in dollars and MRP but this does not apply to our appartments/weeks which we still trade (sell) to Marriott at the old rate (price). This is absolutely insane and a complete rip-off. By the way, I am surprised not knowing of angry mobs of Marriott owners complaining about this...

So, after enjoying the ever declining program for +10 years, now it became a headache and want to get rid of my weeks as fast as I can. Any ideas on how to? Thank you.

B

Click here -> How can I give away my timeshare on TUG?

You can give the weeks away to someone ready, willing, and able to take on the maintenance fees. This link contains information on how to do it.

Marriott may still be buying back Sabal Palms weeks. After the introduction of DC they were quite aggressive in doing so. I got a very good price from MVCI for one of my Sabal Palms weeks. They really needed Sabal Palms weeks for the trust (and may still need more) because it is a sold out resort and there is no ROFR at Sabal Palms. If they are buying back Sabal Palms weeks it will probably net you more money with less hassle than any other avenue of getting rid of it. Call MVCI Resales to find out if they are interested at this time.

Marriott may buy them back or resell them for you. Look for the thread titled "marriott is buying back timeshares." It's a very long thread,but there will be a phone number for the Marriott buyback in there somewhere.

Frisbeeace said:

I bought 2 weeks at Sabal Palms back in 1993. As a foreign owner who can not occupy or travel with the whole family every year, trading for Marriott Rewards Points was my main or almost exclusive alternative. In fact, the local MVCI reps focused all their sales pitch on what we could do with MRP we owners could get.

Years went by, and we still get the same 110,000 points which at moment allowed for a week at the nicest hotels in the world. After several devaluations and birth of new hotel categories, those same points barely pay for 2/3 nights at a nice hotel, meaning that the cost of each one is approximately $500 considering that we pay $1,400 in maintenance expenses and membership in the DC points system.

So, in 20 years, hotels have increased it cost in dollars and MRP but this does not apply to our appartments/weeks which we still trade (sell) to Marriott at the old rate (price). This is absolutely insane and a complete rip-off. By the way, I am surprised not knowing of angry mobs of Marriott owners complaining about this...

So, after enjoying the ever declining program for +10 years, now it became a headache and want to get rid of my weeks as fast as I can. Any ideas on how to? Thank you.

B

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And 20 years ago fuel was 1.29/Gal., a loaf of bread was .39 cents, and a flight to London from Miami was $500.

So, what exactly is your point? Maybe your expectation was that Hotels rooms would still be rented for $59 dollars/night after 20 years?

I don't see how its Marriott's issue that you purchased something in another country that you knowingly were unsure if you could use......

By all means, if you can't use it then rent it, sell, it, give it away, etc. But I think its unfair to call it a rip-off.

Its understandable to be disappointed with your current situation. You can place your units for sale on TUG, Redweek, ebay, etc.

FT

presley said:

Marriott may buy them back or resell them for you. Look for the thread titled "marriott is buying back timeshares." It's a very long thread,but there will be a phone number for the Marriott buyback in there somewhere.

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If I were selling, Marriott Resales Operations would be my first option. There are no guarantees, of course, but at the moment for many Weeks the better offers are coming from that office as opposed to any external sites.

Link to TUG thread, Marriott is BUYING BACK TIMESHARES.

The cached link and phone number for Marriott Resales Operations is 866-682-4547.

Hmmmm. There may be some tweaking going on with that website/link; it may or may not work for you. Note it's not part of my-vacationclub.com; it's marriottvacationclub.com. But that home page used to have a taskbar that included direct links to "Sell Weeks" and "Buy Weeks" pages; those links don't appear to exist any longer on the newest version of the linked page. Just two days ago another TUGger told me she's unable to get to the "Sell Weeks" page from the link in the Points FAQ so I directed her to the site and told her to put "resales" in the Search box - that worked for me the other day to bring up both the "Buy" and "Sell" pages but now it doesn't return any hits. Not sure what this all means but it won't be a surprise if it all disappears.

For now the direct link in the Points FAQ is still working for me (with a security warning) but just in case I've copied/pasted the "Sell Weeks" page info to a doc I'm saving as well as the thread linked above, and will include it with the Weeks FAQ that's currently being worked on.

FractionalTraveler said:

And 20 years ago fuel was 1.29/Gal., a loaf of bread was .39 cents, and a flight to London from Miami was $500.

So, what exactly is your point? Maybe your expectation was that Hotels rooms would still be rented for $59 dollars/night after 20 years?

I don't see how its Marriott's issue that you purchased something in another country that you knowingly were unsure if you could use......

By all means, if you can't use it then rent it, sell, it, give it away, etc. But I think its unfair to call it a rip-off.

Its understandable to be disappointed with your current situation. You can place your units for sale on TUG, Redweek, ebay, etc.

FT

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Oh, I don't know, that's one of the usual TUG complaints that makes some sense to me. I understand why the Marriott Rewards Points allotments for Weeks don't increase (because the specific amounts are written into the governing documents) when the hotel categories/requirements change. But despite understanding the reason why not, I also understand why many think that the constant devaluation of the timeshares' MRP exchange benefit is very disappointing.

What if the timeshare exchange values in II were subject to the same constant devaluations? What if the 2BR Week timeshare you bought ten years ago got you from II back then a like-for-like 2BR Week, but now can only ever get you a studio for four days? And next year might get you even less? That's what we're lamenting here, the complete loss of any semblance of like-for-like value and continuing diminishing returns when exchanging the timeshares for MRP.

The thing is, the value you get for your MR points has no bearing on the amount of your MFs. The MFs go no where except to the HOA for resort operations and maintenance.

I can however understand the gripe. Marriott takes your week gives you points and turns around and rents your week out for cash. Over time that amount of cash has continued to increase while the number of points they give you does not. They really should have written in to the governing documentation to allow for increases based on some type of index. Unfortunately they didn't so that leaves us with a system that continues to lose value over time.

Yea, seems like we discuss the whole MR devaluation process every year like clockwork when any program changes are to be announced. That just happened about a month ago.

It was recently discussed on this thread: http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207843

The OP seemed to indicate they purchased solely for the MR exchange option.

We all know that usage option is of little benefit anymore.

FT

There are very few Marriott weeks that have to be given away for free to unload them. I agree with others to call Marriott and ask for a buyback offer. Marriott's active buyback of weeks is one reason that we are seeing fewer of these weeks popup on EBay.

SueDonJ said:

I understand why the Marriott Rewards Points allotments for Weeks don't increase (because the specific amounts are written into the governing documents) when the hotel categories/requirements change. But despite understanding the reason why not, I also understand why many think that the constant devaluation of the timeshares' MRP exchange benefit is very disappointing.

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They actually are not in the governing documents. They are in a separate Rules & Regulations document you get when you buy the timeshare, and that document specifically says that the MR amounts are not guaranteed and can be eliminated or changed at any time in MORI's discretion. The documents allow changes in the amounts without amending any governing documents, but I am not aware of any case where the amount of MR points given for an exchange has been increased.

FractionalTraveler said:

The OP seemed to indicate they purchased solely for the MR exchange option.

We all know that usage option is of little benefit anymore.

FT

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Yes, a lot of very savvy people purchased Sabal Palms in the early days solely for the MR exchange benefit. We did so in 1987 and it was one of the best financial decisions we ever made. I have commented frequently on what 110,000 points would get you in those days (when the annual maintenance fee was only something like $325), but suffice it to say in this thread that it was a lot more than you get today for a 360,000 point travel package. The benefits were still spectacular in 1993 when the OP purchased, so I can personally understand OP's frustration and sense of betrayal very well.

FractionalTraveler said:

And 20 years ago fuel was 1.29/Gal., a loaf of bread was .39 cents, and a flight to London from Miami was $500.

So, what exactly is your point? Maybe your expectation was that Hotels rooms would still be rented for $59 dollars/night after 20 years?

I don't see how its Marriott's issue that you purchased something in another country that you knowingly were unsure if you could use......
FT

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If I were the OP I would feel insulted by this response. It is condescending and completely misses the OP's point.

BocaBoy said:

They actually are not in the governing documents. They are in a separate Rules & Regulations document you get when you buy the timeshare, and that document specifically says that the MR amounts are not guaranteed and can be eliminated or changed at any time in MORI's discretion. The documents allow changes in the amounts without amending any governing documents, but I am not aware of any case where the amount of MR points given for an exchange has been increased.

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I do recall some people bought at properties when they allowed for EOY conversion to MR points. The sales team then moved to offering conversion every year. They allowed those that bought previously to change to every year for an additional fee, a couple thousand dollars I believe. Legends Edge is one such resort. Sales were slow so they upped the ante and moved from an EOY to EY MR point conversion.

This also brings to light the real reason for the option. It was a pure selling tool used by the sales team to entice buyers.

BocaBoy said:

If I were the OP I would feel insulted by this response. It is condescending and completely misses the OP's point.

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I agree wholeheartedly.

good morning all...

Please remember that the sales pitch was

#1 This is your vacation 401K, protecting you from the value losing inflation...the ownership is still the same, 1 week in season at your unit, but a value of it is decreasing as MRP's have declining value and will get worse!!!

#2 my favorite, tomorrows vacations at today's prices...

I can understand the OP's lament. I agree with Sue...IF II said sorry, you can only trade your units for 6 days somewhere... we would not be blowing it off with "sorry.... gallon of gas was $1.38 in 1993...

I am working on consuming my remaining 1,000,000 MRP's before the value goes down to zero...!!!

The fixed MRP/ week thingwas a pre thought out scam and kind of a MVCD rip off...

BocaBoy said:

If I were the OP I would feel insulted by this response. It is condescending and completely misses the OP's point.

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Good, I meant it to be inflammatory. The feeling is mutual and you seemed to miss the part about Marriott being a rip-off and angry mobs of Marriott owners.

I suppose you also want the value of your 20 year old car to be worth what was paid when new or that 27-foot open fisherman to be sold for the same cost after 8 years of use.

This is the traditional mistake made by many Timeshare purchasers, they think somehow it is a financial investment of some sorts since they are spending cash for it.

Maybe I should treat my kids education the same way some think of timeshares. After 20 years, I should tell my kids that the $200K I invested in their Ivy League schooling was a rip-off because they aren't making anywhere near that in their careers. NOT!

The bottom line is that Marriott has not ripped anyone off. Everyone still gets the same number of MR points that was originally offered. Yes, that benefit is not what it used to be. We all know that.

If your unhappy with your purchase then sell it, give it away, or rent it and move on with life.

FT

FractionalTraveler said:

Good, I meant it to be inflammatory. The feeling is mutual and you seemed to miss the part about Marriott being a rip-off and angry mobs of Marriott owners.

I suppose you also want the value of your 20 year old car to be worth what was paid when new or that 27-foot open fisherman to be sold for the same cost after 8 years of use.

This is the traditional mistake made by many Timeshare purchasers, they think somehow it is a financial investment of some sorts since they are spending cash for it.

Maybe I should treat my kids education the same way some think of timeshares. After 20 years, I should tell my kids that the $200K I invested in their Ivy League schooling was a rip-off because they aren't making anywhere near that in their careers. NOT!

The bottom line is that Marriott has not ripped anyone off. Everyone still gets the same number of MR points that was originally offered. Yes, that benefit is not what it used to be. We all know that.

If your unhappy with your purchase then sell it, give it away, or rent it and move on with life.

FT

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Why couldn't Marriott give some increase in points to retain some of the MR point value? They could've increased it by 10-15% over time and still maintain solid profit margin in my opinion but instead they are like most corporation who are greedy and need to max out their profits and since they probably have an endless supply of new customers who make up for the losing the devaluing will continue until the whole system will fail.

Its easy to say if you don't like it drop it but that is not fair to all those that have spent a ton of money on Marriott TSs. Corps don't care about fair they just care about profits.

Now you'll argue they're doing for their stockholders and that may be true but my point is it still catering to the "rich" stockholders and not the everyday man and woman. My belief is if everyone wasn't so greedy the rich could still be rich but not filthy rich and the average guy would be much better off.

This is exactly why the middle class is shrinking IMHO, Corp greed.

MOXJO7282 said:

Why couldn't Marriott give some increase in points to retain some of the MR point value? They could've increased it by 10-15% over time and still maintain solid profit margin in my opinion but instead they are like most corporation who are greedy and need to max out their profits and since they probably have an endless supply of new customers who make up for the losing the devaluing will continue until the whole system will fail.

Its easy to say if you don't like it drop it but that is not fair to all those that have spent a ton of money on Marriott TSs. Corps don't care about fair they just care about profits.

Now you'll argue they're doing for their stockholders and that may be true but my point is it still catering to the "rich" stockholders and not the everyday man and woman. My belief is if everyone wasn't so greedy the rich could still be rich but not filthy rich and the average guy would be much better off.

This is exactly why the middle class is shrinking IMHO, Corp greed.

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Corporations are supposed to maximize profits; that's why people buy shares in them. But that's not the point.

Marriott presumably made a profit on point conversions 20-25 years ago when the conversion rate was set. It still (and it should still) make a profit on point conversions today. But at current conversion rates, owners are disincentivized to convert weeks into points. If the conversion rate were increased (in proportion to increases in MF's??), the number of owners converting weeks into points would increase. We Tuggers aren't the only ones capable of doing this math.

Perhaps Marriott's strategy is to screw over a small number of owners rather than earning a smaller unit profit on a larger volume. But it seems to me that overall profit on this piece of its business would increase if Marriott could increase volume. JMHO

FractionalTraveler said:

I suppose you also want the value of your 20 year old car to be worth what was paid when new or that 27-foot open fisherman to be sold for the same cost after 8 years of use.
FT

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This is a very poor analogy. I don't see why a stay in a Marriott property should be expected to depreciate in value (the value of a timeshare ownership might but that is besides the point). A stay now in an MVC resort certainly costs more than it would have 8 or 20 years ago and has probably kept pace with non resort hotel costs. Why then should anyone consider it reasonable that a week in a resort that could be exchanged for a week in a hotel in the past should now only pull a couple of nights?

I know the argument that you buy a week in a particular place and everything else is a bonus so just suck it up. But bear in mind that the ability to exchange your week for something else is an integral part of the timeshare pitch so methodical devaluation of the exchange power of a timeshare week can, in my view, quite legitimately be called a rip off, particularly by someone who bought into the system early before the cynicism of Marriott's approach became so evident.

FractionalTraveler said:

And 20 years ago fuel was 1.29/Gal., a loaf of bread was .39 cents, and a flight to London from Miami was $500.

So, what exactly is your point? Maybe your expectation was that Hotels rooms would still be rented for $59 dollars/night after 20 years?

I don't see how its Marriott's issue that you purchased something in another country that you knowingly were unsure if you could use......

By all means, if you can't use it then rent it, sell, it, give it away, etc. But I think its unfair to call it a rip-off.

Its understandable to be disappointed with your current situation. You can place your units for sale on TUG, Redweek, ebay, etc.

FT

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I think the point is . . the occupancy

that OP is trading for MRP . . .

has a market rental value . . .

that has increased over the years with inflation.


OP's expectation was that the occupancy he would obtain via that exchange scheme would have a value (in either constant or current dollars . . . but don't mix them) equivalent to what he was giving up.


Clear?

FractionalTraveler said:

Good, I meant it to be inflammatory. The feeling is mutual........If your unhappy with your purchase then sell it, give it away, or rent it and move on with life.

FT

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My, how juvenile. Again you miss the point being made.

answeeney said:

A stay now in an MVC resort certainly costs more than it would have 8 or 20 years ago and has probably kept pace with non resort hotel costs. Why then should anyone consider it reasonable that a week in a resort that could be exchanged for a week in a hotel in the past should now only pull a couple of nights?

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I agree. Nothing unreasonable about the op's observation

Frisbeeace said:

By the way, I am surprised not knowing of angry mobs of Marriott owners complaining about this....

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Don't get me wrong. I like the quality of Marriott Resorts. But the constant modifications to their programs (Rental, Resale, MRP, etc.) to the detriment of Owners similar to what you describe in your post are what caused me to sell my 4 Marriott Weeks years ago.

George