• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

DC presentation at Lakeshore Reserve

M

melroseman

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
140
Reaction score
15
Location
Chicago Area
Just leaving Lakeshore Reserve; the offer for the DC points presentation on Tuesday was 20,000 points. It had been a few years so I said sure...

The presentation was low-key, with a good guy that figured pretty quick we knew the program and wouldn't be swayed. Willing to sell in small increments and of course the price going up again soon. Since we clearly weren't buying he was short on details which was fine with us. Most interesting comments (if true) were about how MVC is growing rapidly and resuming construction. I knew they were working at Grand Chateau; he claimed they were ready to start building the other several buildings here at Lakeshore. No sign of construction yet, but they did move the presentations to a new sales gallery in the Palermo building, leaving the old free-standing presentation building vacant (I think) and ready to be demolished to make room for more units if necessary. I'm skeptical for now.

Have to say it really is nice to have amenities meant for many more units available for the reduced number of existing units. The place is still a great facility.
 
We're heading to Lakeshore on an II exchange into a 2BR for the first week of August in what will be our first stay there. Will be interested to see if we get invited to do a presentation. Just did one at MOW back in March, and didn't think we could do that one based on having done a presentation less than 12 months prior. Sales Rep told us they have done away with time limits, so we did the tour and accepted the points. Perhaps another 20k MRPs is just around the corner ... :cool:
 
I would really like to see them continue build-out at Lakeshore Reserve. It is a fantastic resort. While more units will make it more crowded, there is another pool planned. So it shouldn't be too bad. I take the closure of the separate sales gallery as a good sign. Why else would they close it?
 
Going to Lakeshore this weekend for the week of July 4 th. Was called for a presentation with an offer of 15,000 pts. or $150 spa credit. Took the 150 since I usually do the spa when the 25% discount is offered. Last year we got $100 in Marriot credit and used it for a wonderful dinner at the JW.
 
Why doesn't Marriott reduce the cost of points a little; they might sell some... would actually buy if the price per point was reduced from $11.88 to $10.

melroseman said:
Just leaving Lakeshore Reserve; the offer for the DC points presentation on Tuesday was 20,000 points. It had been a few years so I said sure...

The presentation was low-key, with a good guy that figured pretty quick we knew the program and wouldn't be swayed. Willing to sell in small increments and of course the price going up again soon. Since we clearly weren't buying he was short on details which was fine with us. Most interesting comments (if true) were about how MVC is growing rapidly and resuming construction. I knew they were working at Grand Chateau; he claimed they were ready to start building the other several buildings here at Lakeshore. No sign of construction yet, but they did move the presentations to a new sales gallery in the Palermo building, leaving the old free-standing presentation building vacant (I think) and ready to be demolished to make room for more units if necessary. I'm skeptical for now.

Have to say it really is nice to have amenities meant for many more units available for the reduced number of existing units. The place is still a great facility.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
We just went to the presentation today. It was pre-arranged before our arrival. They offered us 20000 MR points, $125 Marriott certificate, or $125 in Disney gift cards. We opted for the Disney cards as we are going to the Magic Kingdom tomorrow (in the rain!).

Since we are multi-week owners (Aruba Surf Club) with enrolled weeks, they wanted to sell us enough points to get us in the Premier level (>6500 Destinations points). Our enrolled weeks are worth 5150 points and they offered to honor those as trust points if we purchased 1500 @ $11.88/pt. We were tempted, but declined as we just purchased the second week last year and not ready for another major purchase.

The salesman was professional and knowledgeable, but a little pushy towards the end. He offered 1500 bonus points after we had declined several times. Hope this information is helpful.
 
good morning....

Legacy points cannot be supermorphed into Trust points...

They are 2 separate legal entities...

Legacy points are currency in an Internal Exchange System...

Trust points are ownership in a deeded Trust which can also be used as currency in an internal exchange system...

sales reps are pushing the "supermorph" thing because they know that currnetly both groups of points (as they designed) are functionally comingling and equal... IOW, they are promising you what you already have..

AS proof, I write this from the 15th floor penthouse at Crystal Shores... clrearly Trust inventory...obtained with my Legacy points!!!
 
Crystal Shores has a Total Number of 40.81 Units in the Trust.

40.31 coming from 2-BR units and .5 coming from that 3-BR Penthouse.

A total of 2, 122 individual timeshare interests have been contributed to the Trust which is the equivalent of 40.81 units (52 timeshare interests per unit).

Puck, enjoy your (.5 unit) Three Bedroom Penthouse at Marco, its one of my favorites in the system.

FT
 
No Supermorphing

puckmanfl said:
good morning....

Legacy points cannot be supermorphed into Trust points...

They are 2 separate legal entities...

Legacy points are currency in an Internal Exchange System...

Trust points are ownership in a deeded Trust which can also be used as currency in an internal exchange system...

sales reps are pushing the "supermorph" thing because they know that currnetly both groups of points (as they designed) are functionally comingling and equal... IOW, they are promising you what you already have..

AS proof, I write this from the 15th floor penthouse at Crystal Shores... clrearly Trust inventory...obtained with my Legacy points!!!
Click to expand...

I have both legacy and trust points. Saw a summer 2014 OceanWatch week on my-vacationclub.com. When I tried to book it it said I was going to have to borrow points from 2015. Called a VOA who told me that that week was only available as a trust reservation. Could not combine my 2014 exchange points with 2014 trust points to get it.
 
SMB1 said:
I have both legacy and trust points. Saw a summer 2014 OceanWatch week on my-vacationclub.com. When I tried to book it it said I was going to have to borrow points from 2015. Called a VOA who told me that that week was only available as a trust reservation. Could not combine my 2014 exchange points with 2014 trust points to get it.
Click to expand...

I've been told something very similar when booking OceanWatch. Last year when I was making my reservations for this summer, I was told there was a unit available for time I wanted but was told it had to be booked with trust points instead of legacy points.
 
I too had a similar issue last year, when attempting to book a unit at Grande Vista, and my inlaws and I wanted to pool points to rent a two bedroom, only to find out after they transfered their Legacy points to me that thier Legacy points and my Trust points could not be combined to place the reservation. When questioned, the reply was that the only available inventory was Trust inventory so only Trust points could be used to book it. I will say at least Marriott was kind enough to un-do the transfer of their Legacy points because of the "misunderstanding". Roll that forward to our sales presentation at Grande Vista in March of this year, and when asked about that incident, we (both me and my in-laws on separate pitches with separate sales peeps) were both told that is no longer an issue because all points are treated the same now. Considering the source of that info, I have to say the little voice in my head was saying "When a timeshare salesperson's lips are moving, they are lying!!!"
 
good evening...

SMB1

When you saw this reservation open, could you not just book it? I do believe that you can borrow on line!!! If not, it does disprove the supermorph thing, as you have both Legacy and Trust and you could not book a Trust!!! the reps are saying that purchasing Trust morphs your Legacy points into Trust access. This is clearly not true, based on SMB's post!!!
 
Was told by ownership services today unequivocably trust and legacy points could be combined; he said they are the same thing now.

SMB1 said:
I have both legacy and trust points. Saw a summer 2014 OceanWatch week on my-vacationclub.com. When I tried to book it it said I was going to have to borrow points from 2015. Called a VOA who told me that that week was only available as a trust reservation. Could not combine my 2014 exchange points with 2014 trust points to get it.
Click to expand...
 
lizap said:
Was told by ownership services today unequivocably trust and legacy points could be combined; he said they are the same thing now.
Click to expand...

Various Marriott reps/execs have said some version of "the same thing" ever since the DC inception but that doesn't make it true, or at least we may not be interpreting it the same way Marriott reps do. There is a technical distinction between Trust Points (purchased) and Legacy Points (from enrolled, converted Weeks) that will always exist unless the DC governing docs are amended. We haven't seen anything to suggest that's been done.

Trust Points have direct access to intervals conveyed to the Trust as well as any intervals available through the DC Exchange Company. Legacy Points have direct access to only the DC Exchange Company intervals. Trust and Legacy Points can be combined to reserve EC intervals, which appears in Marriott-speak to mean that, "they're the same thing." Functionally on its face that statement is true, i.e. Trust Point values are equal to Legacy Point values, but technically the distinction still doesn't allow every available interval to be reserved with a combination of Trust and Legacy Points.

As noted in several posts above, the claim that, "they're the same thing," does not play out in actual practice unless an interval is made available through the EC. One change that we have noticed since the DC inception is that Marriott currently appears to be mingling intervals in the EC further out from check-in dates, which means that the technical v. functional aspect doesn't appear to affect a majority of DC reservation requests. But there definitely is still a distinction that affects a small number of Trust intervals.
 
Last edited:
One again, very well explained, Sue. I also asked about purchasing resale DC points. He said they would qualify for all the same things as those purchased directly from Marriott, but there would be additional upfront fees, as has been noted. So looks like that is the best route for now. But I will wait a while to purchase.

SueDonJ said:
Various Marriott reps/execs have said some version of "the same thing" ever since the DC inception but that doesn't make it true, or at least we may not be interpreting it the same way Marriott reps do. There is a technical distinction between Trust Points (purchased) and Legacy Points (from enrolled, converted Weeks) that will always exist unless the DC governing docs are amended. We haven't seen anything to suggest that's been done.

Trust Points have direct access to intervals conveyed to the Trust as well as any intervals available through the DC Exchange Company. Legacy Points have direct access to only the DC Exchange Company intervals. Trust and Legacy Points can be combined to reserve EC intervals, which appears in Marriott-speak to mean that, "they're the same thing." Functionally on its face that statement is true, i.e. Trust Point values are equal to Legacy Point values, but technically the distinction still doesn't allow every available interval to be reserved with a combination of Trust and Legacy Points.

As noted in several posts above, the claim that, "they're the same thing," does not play out in actual practice unless an interval is made available through the EC. One change that we have noticed since the DC inception is that Marriott currently appears to be mingling intervals in the EC further out from check-in dates, which means that the technical v. functional aspect doesn't appear to affect a majority of DC reservation requests. But there definitely is still a distinction that affects a small number of Trust intervals.
Click to expand...
 
puckmanfl said:
good evening...

SMB1

When you saw this reservation open, could you not just book it? I do believe that you can borrow on line!!! If not, it does disprove the supermorph thing, as you have both Legacy and Trust and you could not book a Trust!!! the reps are saying that purchasing Trust morphs your Legacy points into Trust access. This is clearly not true, based on SMB's post!!!
Click to expand...


Even it is available online, you can not book it. I tried this year to secure a July 4 week in 2014 at OceanWatch. And I was told the same thing that it is for Trust points owners only.
 
puckmanfl said:
good evening...

SMB1

When you saw this reservation open, could you not just book it? I do believe that you can borrow on line!!! If not, it does disprove the supermorph thing, as you have both Legacy and Trust and you could not book a Trust!!! the reps are saying that purchasing Trust morphs your Legacy points into Trust access. This is clearly not true, based on SMB's post!!!
Click to expand...

I could book it, but when the screen popped up that shows from where the points would be taken and asked if I wanted to change it, only the trust points were visible. On line I could have borrowed points from 2015 to book it if I wanted.

Now that I think about it I should have hung up and called another VOA. Although this guy did put me on hold to ask a "supervisor" who gave him the same answer.

I'm just remembering now that in April I tried to book a 3BR Townhome unit at Lakeshore for next April school vacation week. The same thing happened online....told me I had to borrow from 2015. I called the VOA. She said she didn't understand why because I had enough points and filled the reservation immediately.

I should have called another VOA. I'm just connecting the 2 incidents now. It has been my understanding since buying points 2 years ago that the 2 buckets would co-mingle...at least for those with both types pf points. I should have explained to the VOA that this trust week could be placed into the exchange pool by MVC which could then be reserrved by my trust and legacy points.

Lesson learned.
 
Last edited:
good morning...

looks like we have learned 2 things here...

#1 still occasional distinction between Trust and Legacy

#2 No "supermorphing" as hybrid owners such as OP have run intot he distinction...

I still doubt that there is a large contingent of pure Trust owners with greater than 5000 points, so these intervals such as the 7/4 OW will still have to be grabbed by Legacy players... The friends of GregT with 15K trust points are still probably a rare bird. My puckology says that the majority of pure trust players are in the 2000-4000 range...
 
Great info on difference between Trust and Legacy Points!

I'm glad to see this discussion and the mods should really change the title of the whole thread to flag this!

I was completely unaware of the issue, though I have enough enrolled weeks and Trust points to be Premier Plus. So far, we have only used our points for a couple of tours, so I haven't seen the inventory issue, but it sounds like Marriott's applying a capacity rule of some sort - if the only intervals available are in the Trust, then only Trust points can be used, but if there are deeded weeks available outside the Trust then Trust and Legacy can be combined? And if you use a combination, then where does the week come from - Trust or nonTrust inventory?

My head is spinning. Taken to the logical extreme, if the top resorts eventually have only Trust inventory, what will Legacy points be usable for? Less desirable MVCI properties, non-resort stuff (tours)?
 
puckmanfl said:
good morning...

looks like we have learned 2 things here...

#1 still occasional distinction between Trust and Legacy

#2 No "supermorphing" as hybrid owners such as OP have run intot he distinction...

I still doubt that there is a large contingent of pure Trust owners with greater than 5000 points, so these intervals such as the 7/4 OW will still have to be grabbed by Legacy players... The friends of GregT with 15K trust points are still probably a rare bird. My puckology says that the majority of pure trust players are in the 2000-4000 range...
Click to expand...

I would agree, and those intervals that cost more than 4,000 DC points are likely to be moved to the MVC Exchange Company earlier for use by legacy members. It makes no sense to keep them in the trust reservation system if there are only a tiny percentage of people that can actually book them.

If I were a trust owner with a lot of points, I would be rather upset MVCI was commingling the points by dumping all trust inventory in to the MVC Exchange Company very early. It would be like them saying to weeks owners that they will just deposit everything in to II and tell everyone that in order to reserve their week, they have to exchange through II.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top