Just got my Wyndham 2011 Assessment--13% Increase

http://ethisphere.com/wme2010/

Need a good laugh? Wyndham is now touting itself as winner of one of the world's most ethical companies!

See website above, I'm sure it's bought & paid for, but when I attended a weasel-fest, er owner update, in the Smoky Mountains TN this fall they were sooo proud LOL.

We went from $5.75 to $5.89 per 1K pts. Alas our El Cid contracts in Mexico are rolled into the entire Wyn pts package we pay for...and they have really high annual maint fees there (higher than our UDI at Wyn Old Town Alexandria, surprisingly enough). Labor's cheap in Mexico...so why are El Cid maint fees sky-high?!! :annoyed:

You must own a converted fixed week el cid contract in low season.

jjmanthei05 said:

I just got off the phone with Denise in the collections department at star island. She confirmed that the MF for a 2 bed lockoff was $895 with the break down of $768 for the MF and $127 for taxes. So Wyndham is double billing us for the taxes as they have a separate line item for the 127 + the 895. Does anyone know who I would have to talk to to get this corrected?

Jason

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It's actually $895 +55 that Wyndham added in so they wouldn't have to do a yearend building to collect the actual amount less the estimate. Last year, that amount was $35. So, they are expecting it to be 57% higher this year? If the actual amount turns out be be less than the estimate, are they going to send everyone a check for the difference?

I hope I didn't miss read my statement from Smoky Mountain. I think it only went up about a dollar a month for my 405000 points. I just bought this year so I have never seen a statement before. It was a single page, and it said monthly dues (or whatever it said) for 2011 was only about a dollar more. It did have the amounts for the maintenance and program fee separate. I really don't know what it said as I was just interested in the monthly payment.

I called Smoky mountains about my deed there and I think it only went up 3 or 4 cents per thousand so your $1\month sounds about right.

Jason

$70 too high???? a Mistake??

I have a fixed week (at Glade) that has been converted to Wyndham points. The resort POA sent me a letter that shows what the 2011 resort maintenance fees are. But the club wyndham statment has them listed as higher by $72....

So, I called the reosrt POA and they were very nice and confirmed that the 2011 fees are correct on the letter that they sent....

I though maybe the $72 is a catch-up from 2010 as I know with fixed weeks that are converted to points, you sometimes have to pay a catch-up, if the actual costs are more than the amount that you have paid for a year....this is because points owners pay in advance and non-converted weeks pay in arears.....

So I asked the resort POA what the final 2010 fees were...they said they are the amount that I had paid for 2010....so no catch-up


So, then I called Club Wyndham Finance, and the rep gave me what sounded like a canned response that they are "sorry for the confusion and that the amount on the 2011 Club Wyndham statemnet is correct"...she could not explain any more than that....

Anyway, I don't know what is going on with this. I have no idea why the Club wyndham statement is higher. I encourage others to examine their statements closely.

massvacationer said:

I have a fixed week that has been converted to Wyndham points. The resort POA sent me a letter that shows what the 2011 resort maintenance fees are. But the club wyndham statment has them listed as higher by $72....

So, I called the reosrt POA and they were very nice and confirmed that the 2011 fees are correct on the letter that they sent....

I though maybe the $72 is a catch-up from 2010 as I know with fixed weeks that are converted to points, you sometimes have to pay a catch-up, if the actual costs are more than the amount that you have paid for a year....this is because points owners pay in advance and non-converted weeks pay in arears.....

So I asked the resort POA what the final 2010 fees were...they said they are the amount that I had paid for 2010....so no catch-up


So, then I called Club Wyndham Finance, and the rep gave me what sounded like a canned response that they are "sorry for the confusion and that the amount on the 2011 Club Wyndham statemnet is correct"...she could not explain any more than that....

Anyway, I don't know what is going on with this. I have no idea why the Club wyndham statement is higher. I encourage others to examine their statements closely.

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The person I had spoken to in the Finance dept, along with his manager, insisted that we are being billed for 2012, which does not make sense to me since the statement clearly says 2011.

well they have rolled out a new statement format this year....so maybe they messed this up? ......could the answer be as simple as they made some mistakes when creating the new statements ??? As far as 2012...how would they even know what to charge for 2012????

Honestly.... Wyndham resorts themselves tend to be very well-run, by high quality people...The resort POAs and resort management are always helpful to me...they answer questions honestly and really care about what they do....

but sometimes the communications that we get from the central wyndham corporate functions seems to be not as clear

I had a discrepancy with my Patriot's Place fixed week as well - only a few dollars. I called Wyndham finance to point it out and was also told I need to speak to the POA. When I called I was trying to alert them to the error so they could check in with the resort and be sure they were correct. I assumed this might effect many owners. I was told they don't do that. They just charge what the resort tells them to. Huh? I find it troubling that they would not consider the possibility that there is a mistake and want to check if their records are correct.

The other thing that was odd occured when I asked when she thought I would be billed for the difference. She said I would not be billed. What? So they will make up the $10 or so difference they think I still owe? This makes no sense.

On the upside, neither my Patriot's Place nor Sapphire Valley had any fee increases this year (according to the POA of course).

my MF remained the same

So, I have not yet called my home resort, but I have a couple of guesses as to what is going on.

The person I had spoken to in the Finance dept, along with his manager, insisted that we are being billed for 2012, which does not make sense to me since the statement clearly says 2011.

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Converted fixed weeks *do* pay one year in advance, spread out over the year. So, the monthly payments you make in 2011 *are* for the 2012 use-year. In contrast, UDI contracts pay during their use year. So, for UDI contracts, the payments you make during 2011 are for the 2011 use year.

also have no idea why the fees would be so much higher for a converted week. Other than the program fee, which is a separate charge, why would the maintenace be so much higher?

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Normally, converted fixed week resorts are billed the amount one year prior. So, during 2010, you paid the *2010* MF amount, rather than the (correct) 2011 amount, divided by 12, monthly. Then, near the end of the year, or possibly early in the next year, we would get a separate bill for the difference between 2011 and 2010 MFs. This is because, usually, most HOAs do not set the next year's MF amount until fairly late in the year prior.

So, I'm wondering---rather than billing us separately for the difference between 2010 and 2011---if the new monthly amount for 2011 includes both the usual increase from 2010 to 2011 MFs (for the estimated costs of 2012), *plus* the difference between 2011 and 2010 to account for the gap in the 2011 use year. That would make sense---that way they don't have to do separate collections for everything, and could fold it all into the "standard" monthly payment. And, it would actually be nicer for us; rather than paying the 2011-2010 deficit as a lump sum at the end of 2010, we can spread it out over 2011.

When I finally get my credit pool snafu straightened out (don't ask...) I will try to call my home resort and get the numbers for 2010 and 2011, to see if this holds water.

bnoble said:

Normally, converted fixed week resorts are billed the amount one year prior. So, during 2010, you paid the *2010* MF amount, rather than the (correct) 2011 amount, divided by 12, monthly. Then, near the end of the year, or possibly early in the next year, we would get a separate bill for the difference between 2011 and 2010 MFs. This is because, usually, most HOAs do not set the next year's MF amount until fairly late in the year prior.

So, I'm wondering---rather than billing us separately for the difference between 2010 and 2011---if the new monthly amount for 2011 includes both the usual increase from 2010 to 2011 MFs (for the estimated costs of 2012), *plus* the difference between 2011 and 2010 to account for the gap in the 2011 use year. That would make sense---that way they don't have to do separate collections for everything, and could fold it all into the "standard" monthly payment. And, it would actually be nicer for us; rather than paying the 2011-2010 deficit as a lump sum at the end of 2010, we can spread it out over 2011.

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The difference is just too large for this to be the source of the problem. Last year, I had to pay a $35 overage. I just got the 2011 budget from Star Island. The property tax and reserves amounts match up. According to their figures, the maintenance amount per interval should be $674, compared to the $849 Wyndham is billing me. If I factor in the reserve amount and assume they are budgeting at 2010 amounts, that would mean I underpaid 2010 by $40. Wyndham's bill is $175 higher. Just doesn't make sense.

2012 = (2011 - 2010) + 2011 + (2.5% times 2011)

bnoble said:

So, I have not yet called my home resort, but I have a couple of guesses as to what is going on.


Converted fixed weeks *do* pay one year in advance, spread out over the year. So, the monthly payments you make in 2011 *are* for the 2012 use-year. In contrast, UDI contracts pay during their use year. So, for UDI contracts, the payments you make during 2011 are for the 2011 use year.



Normally, converted fixed week resorts are billed the amount one year prior. So, during 2010, you paid the *2010* MF amount, rather than the (correct) 2011 amount, divided by 12, monthly. Then, near the end of the year, or possibly early in the next year, we would get a separate bill for the difference between 2011 and 2010 MFs. This is because, usually, most HOAs do not set the next year's MF amount until fairly late in the year prior.

So, I'm wondering---rather than billing us separately for the difference between 2010 and 2011---if the new monthly amount for 2011 includes both the usual increase from 2010 to 2011 MFs (for the estimated costs of 2012), *plus* the difference between 2011 and 2010 to account for the gap in the 2011 use year. That would make sense---that way they don't have to do separate collections for everything, and could fold it all into the "standard" monthly payment. And, it would actually be nicer for us; rather than paying the 2011-2010 deficit as a lump sum at the end of 2010, we can spread it out over 2011.

When I finally get my credit pool snafu straightened out (don't ask...) I will try to call my home resort and get the numbers for 2010 and 2011, to see if this holds water.

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I think Brian may have figured this out. I played around with this for my converted fixed week.

To create a 2012 forceasted maintenance fee for my converted fixed week (which is what I would pay during 2011), I took the difference between my 2011 (per my resort) and 2010 maintenance fees and add it to my 2011 maintenance fees (that my resort POA provided). PLUS add 2.5% (I assume this is a forecasted increase based on inflation) of the total 2011 resort maintenance fee, I arrive exactly at the total number that Wyndham says they want to charge during 2011 (AKA the 2012 maint fees).

Does this work for other folks with converted fixed weeks?

-Dave

massvacationer said:

Does this work for other folks with converted fixed weeks?

-Dave

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Not even close for Star Island. The difference is just too big. See my previous post.

regatta333 said:

Not even close for Star Island. The difference is just too big. See my previous post.

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regatta:

Is the change in the way that they are handling Florida property taxes causing this?

Is the increase roughly equal to 2 times the property taxes on your Star Island Unit ?

massvacationer said:

regatta:

Is the change in the way that they are handling Florida property taxes causing this?

Is the increase roughly equal to 2 times the property taxes on your Star Island Unit ?

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Yes, in one of my previous posts, I indicated that I suspected they were doublecounting it, but can not get anyone to verify that or explain what justifies this type of increase, if if is correct.

regatta333 said:

Yes, in one of my previous posts, I indicated that I suspected they were doublecounting it, but can not get anyone to verify that or explain what justifies this type of increase, if if is correct.

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Could it be they got caught with said hand in cookie jar? Collecting a year ahead on taxes?

regatta333 said:

Yes, in one of my previous posts, I indicated that I suspected they were doublecounting it, but can not get anyone to verify that or explain what justifies this type of increase, if if is correct.

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Just a guess:
Perhaps, instead of sending you a separate tax bill for the latest tax-year, they are adding those taxes to the amount you are paying during 2011 - as well as including the projected taxes for the next fiscal year, in the amount you are paying during 2011......

this would not be double counting as they are just spreading your last tax bill over each month of next year as well as including the projected taxes for the next tax-year in the amount you will be paying during 2011......If this is the case, I would think that when you get to paying fees in 2012 you will be back to only paying taxes for one year

This is frustrating as the communications on this to us owners has been less than clear

I am on the phone with them now, on hold, obviously. They do not even know what they did. I got a supervisor on the phone. Pointed out two things that are wrong in their calculations, and I am not even gotten to my florida properties yet, and she had to put me on hold.

Back from talking to her again, and hopefully I am getting through to her about some of the issue with fixed weeks converted, and how they are calculating MFs. At all of my fixed week converted resorts we get some revenue credit back against our MFs in the second to last or last line of the budgets. Well Wyndham is just pulling out the numbers and plugging in certain numbers and ignoring the final calculation total. There are ignoring the credits line completely. They are also including property tax twice on non-florida properties.

I had to ask them to get a copy of the budget so that they can see what I am talking about. I am alas on hold again.

I think in the end we are getting shrewed this year with a double hit of both 2011 taxes and 2012 taxes, BUT ALSO for fixed week owners the added insult of both 2011 end of year adjustments (estimated and paid in 2010 and now known based on 2011 budgets) and 2012 end of year adjustments (estimated and paid in 2011 and still unknown as 2012 budgets are not created yet).

So fixed week owners are paying for 2 extra property taxes and 2 extra end of year adjustments, some of which are know and some of which are estimated.

Least they can do is account for those credits, and spare us a little. At least fixed week owners might actually get a reduction in MFs next year, expecially with all the double counting this year.

Along with the even/odd overpayments on MFs, has aznyone got a response back from finance. Of course my 48 hour promised response did not happen. It is now up to 96 hours and still no response. I guess I will bug them again tomorrow.

2012 = (2011 - 2010) + 2011 + (2.5% times 2011)

massvacationer said:

I think Brian may have figured this out. I played around with this for my converted fixed week.

To create a 2012 forceasted maintenance fee for my converted fixed week (which is what I would pay during 2011), I took the difference between my 2011 (per my resort) and 2010 maintenance fees and add it to my 2011 maintenance fees (that my resort POA provided). PLUS add 2.5% (I assume this is a forecasted increase based on inflation) of the total 2011 resort maintenance fee, I arrive exactly at the total number that Wyndham says they want to charge during 2011 (AKA the 2012 maint fees).

Does this work for other folks with converted fixed weeks?

-Dave

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My 48 hour promised response has come a MONTH later.

I do concur that this is the basic adjustment to the calculation.

However I have discovered another gotcha for FL fixed week converted properties. Apparently the calculation is:

2012 = (2011 - 2010) + 2011 + (2.5% times 2011) + 102.5% 2011 Taxes

So not only are you paying the difference between 2010 collected and 2011 bill, but you are paying 2 property taxes, the one listed on the line item breakout, but then another one WITH the 2.5% adjustment rolled into the MF line.)

I sure as heck expect a DECREASE for next years fees, given that I double dipping this year for BOTH year end true ups, and for property taxes. I would expect a decrease of about $100 MF on my waterfall unit, and about $85 MF on my Oceanview unit, both a Sea Gardens. Great just when I hear that WF units might have SAs. Great.

Sandy,

Have you seen a tax bill for last year come separate? I haven't seen one for my Star island week, so I wonder if they are rolling the separate amount into the monthly fee instead of paying lump sum at the end of 2010. Is that maybe where the doubling is coming from?

Jason

jjmanthei05 said:

Sandy,

Have you seen a tax bill for last year come separate? I haven't seen one for my Star island week, so I wonder if they are rolling the separate amount into the monthly fee instead of paying lump sum at the end of 2010. Is that maybe where the doubling is coming from?

Jason

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The plan is to NO longer send seperate bills EXCEPT for SAs. So YES they are indeed rolling Taxes into the Monthly bills.

The Tax bill ususally shows up in the 1st Q of the year,so they are billing 2011 tax, which is the seperate line item on the Yr end billing report. But for fixed week converted units they are wanting everything prepaid. So in 2011 you prepay your 2012 fees. So they are estimating 2012 tax as 2011 tax plus an additional 2.5% project increase. They are then rolling all of that into the MFs.

So for Fixed Week converted units where Taxes are included in your MFS, you are paying a end of year adjustment for 2011 MF year, AND an estimated increase for 2012 MF year.

So for Fixed Week FLORIDA converted units (where taxes are NOT included in your MFs), you are paying a end of year adjustment for 2011 MF year, AND an estimated increase for 2012 MF year. PLUS you are paying for actual 2011 taxes and an estimated 2012 taxes (with a estimated 2.5% increase).

I actual expect a reduction in my MFs for my FL weeks next year. Because the Tax is actually being paid twice, and I am paying 2 year end adjustments in THIS YEARs assessment.