Points Transfers and Direct Exchanges

All,

I've commented earlier that I believe one of the best things about the Marriott system is the ability to transfer points between owners. Points are the currency that we use to make reservations within the Marriott system. Clearly, one opportunity afforded by the ability to transfer points is renting points to/from other owners, which we have seen.

But there are other situations where points tranfers can be very powerful, and I want to open the dialogue to see if other TUGgers think this is viable. As always, my apologies for a lengthy and complicated thread. My objective is to hold a dialogue to see if the ability to transfer points makes Direct Exchanges easier and opens up other inaccessible systems to the Marriott owner. (Moderators, please see my note below)

We are all familiar with Direct Exchanges, where the owner of one property finds an owner of another property, and they agree to book the respective weeks the other is looking for -- it's complicated but it can work if you can each find the precise week.

I believe Marriott Points (and the ability to transfer them) can simplify this greatly.

Example (and I'm use PuckmanFL for the hypothetical -- I hope you don't mind Puck):

1) GregT has enrolled in Marriott and also owns HGVC
2) Puck has enrolled in Marriott, owns Waiohai but has always wanted to visit the HGVC Big Island (but doesn't have an RCI trader)
3) GregT makes a reservation at HGVC Waikoloa using the HGVC internal reservation system (on Puck's requested date)
4) GregT puts Puck's name on the reservation
5) GregT doesn't want to Direct Exchange into Waiohai, GregT wants to go to MOC
6) Puck redeems Waiohai for Marriott points
7) Puck transfers X,XXX points (negotiated) into GregT's account
8) GregT uses those points to book the desired MOC reservation

This appears very clean and easy to me -- and allows the Marriott points owner to access other systems (using other TUGgers companion system). Naturally, Puck could have simply rented his points on eBay and then found the desired HGVC week he wanted on redweek.com to rent -- but this can be time consuming and requires a little luck on both ends. Points are a currency in and of themelves, and a valuable one.

Second example:

1) GregT has enrolled in Marriott and wants to visit Harborside or Westin St. John
2) PuckmanFL has enrolled in Marriott and also owns Westin Kierlands (which has StarOptions)
3) Puck books a reservation in Harborside or Westin St. John for a shoulder season (note: tough reservation to get)
4) Puck puts GregT's name on the reservation
5) GregT transfers X,XXX points (negotiated) into Puck's account
6) Puck (who has now given up his StarOptions points for that year) has a slug of Marriott points to utilize

All, these are hypotheticals, but it seems very powerful to me that an enrolled owner (even a single week owner) who also owns a separate system that has its own internal reservation system, can benefit/leverage that separate system into a substantial number of Marriott points. And this is all independent of the legacy Marriott week they own, which they can use however they like (or redeem for points) -- completely separate transaction.

Importantly, this allows we Marriott owners to utilize our Marriott points to access a reservation that would be very very difficult to get via traditional methods (II or RCI). But the internal reservation capabilities of Starwood, HGVC (and DVC?) make this possible.

What makes this different from just Direct Exchanging with the owner of the actual property is that this works best if the counterparty (with the companion system) owns a low MF property in that companion system (and not the actual property desired for the reservation -- or they will want alot more Marriott points in trade).

In my first example, my MFs for my HGVC week are approx $800, so the Hawaii-level points that I received (estimate 4,250 for a prime HGVC week?) are a great value for my $800 in MFs. Additionally, 4,250 points is reasonable for Puck to pay to access a desirable week at HGVC Waikoloa, considering Ko Olina is 4,050 in shoulder and 4,575 points for prime season (Mtn View) -- let alone the fact that this transaction permits Puck to access an inaccessible property (HGVC Big Island).

All, as you've figured out by now, I continue to look for ways to creatively utilize Marriott points -- and to maximize the opportunity they present. I am curious to see if others think this type of strategy is viable.

All the best,

Greg


Note: This is a hypothetical discussion, I do not have the points required (at this time) to book an HGVC Waikoloa reservation, nor do I have vacation time capacity to visit Harborside. Moderators, please do not consider this a solicitation, I'm trying to figure out if this can work. Thank you!

Greg,

This is pretty creative, but would it really improve someone's utility to trade in MRPs rather than cash (see below)?

GregT said:

1) GregT has enrolled in Marriott and also owns HGVC
2) Puck has enrolled in Marriott, owns Waiohai but has always wanted to visit the HGVC Big Island (but doesn't have an RCI trader)
3) GregT makes a reservation at HGVC Waikoloa using the HGVC internal reservation system (on Puck's requested date)
4) GregT puts Puck's name on the reservation
5) GregT doesn't want to Direct Exchange into Waiohai, GregT wants to go to MOC
6) Puck redeems Waiohai for Marriott points
7) Puck transfers X,XXX points (negotiated) into GregT's account
7) Puck transfers $X,XXX dollars (negotiated) into GregT's Paypal account
8) GregT uses those points that cash to book the desired MOC reservation on RedWeek or TUG classifieds directly from an owner

Second example:

1) GregT has enrolled in Marriott and wants to visit Harborside or Westin St. John
2) PuckmanFL has enrolled in Marriott and also owns Westin Kierlands (which has StarOptions)
3) Puck books a reservation in Harborside or Westin St. John for a shoulder season (note: tough reservation to get)
4) Puck puts GregT's name on the reservation
5) GregT transfers X,XXX points (negotiated) into Puck's account
5) GregT transfers $X,XXX dollars (negotiated) into Puck's Paypal account
6) Puck (who has now given up his StarOptions points for that year) has a slug of Marriott points dollars to rent any week he wants from RedWeek or TUG classifieds

Click to expand...

Cash seems to offer more fleibility, and the ability to contact an owner who already has that reservation you need rather than deal with a Marriott exchange, which at best is uncertain (we haven't heard about much success with the DC waitlist). Moreover, by taking cash you also would not risk expiration of the transferred points if the Marriott points exchange falls through.

It's a very creative idea, and I can relate to it as a Starwood owner, but I'm not sure it dominates a cash transaction.

good morning...

Greg...

I don't mind the hypotheticals... Feel free to use my moniker anytime. After my Lightning tamed the Penguins last nite, I am in the mood to plan some more vacations. After watching the"gong" show for the past three years it would be nice to watch "playoff" hockey again. Maybe I could have a 2004 "redux" and watch the cup finals from Kauai lagoons...


Go Bolts...

Direct exchanges are a very small niche within the industry and I don't think the new Marriott points program is going to make them any more popular. It will still be difficult to pull off direct exchanges as finding the right fit won't ever be easy.

The potential for these exchanges is, of course, interesting, but I'm guessing what you suggest would actually be done on rare exception. For practical purposes, a system should be user friendly and the system overall, let alone what you suggest, seems to have so many layers of complexities. I'm guessing that the vast majority of enrolees either will continue to trade in weeks because of the simplicity OR those that exchange for points will keep on borrowing from one year to the next, and most will land up with expiring points. Of course, I am not referring to die-hard Tuggers, but to the average Marriott owner.

What percentage of people here - which is a pool of many of Marriott's more savvy users- have even managed to arrange a single direct exchange using weeks? While feasible, what you are suggesting adds yet another layer of complexity. But again- I love the thought process because it does open up potential, albeit for the rare user.

The problem I see with using DC points in this type of "direct exchange" is that the person receiving the points has absolutely no guarantee of getting the week/time period he wants. That person still has the points (with the original owner's use restrictions), but if he were doing the exchange for the sole purpose of getting into a particular resort at a particular time, he loses, big time. Now if that points recipient is flexible about where he wants to go and/or when he can go, and the usage restrictions associated with the points aren't too limiting, it can all work out for both parties. Personally, I probably wouldn't go this route. Other options are available to achieve the same thing, and I would be willing to spend a little for the assurance of getting what I wanted.

All,

I appreciate the comments, pro's and con's. Let me display a hypothetical to see if this answers some of the questions:

Imagine the following hypothetical Classified Ad listed on September 25, 2011:

"I've just secured a 2BR in HGVC Waikoloa for the week of June 30, 2012 thru July 7, 2012 (but I can add days depending on your needs). This is a Saturday-Saturday reservation over July 4th week and this property has full access to the beautiful Hilton Waikoloa Village (and Volcanoes/Hapuna Beach/Mauna Kea/and everything on the Big Island).

I will transfer this reservation into your name in exchange for X,XXX Marriott Points -- and the Marriott points need to be for 2013 usage year. I'll keep the HGVC reservation available until [December 31, 2011] -- if no takers by then, I'll cancel the reservation and get my points back. Please PM me if you're interested. Thank you."


What just happened?

1. I booked a highly desirable week (July 4th) in a system that no Marriott owner can access
2. I made that week available to TUGgers for a reasonable quantity of points (assume 4,450 since it's a holiday week, maybe 4,250 if it's just a prime week?)
3. If no renter shows up, I cancel the reservation and get my points back (but am out the $50 HGVC reservation fee)
4. If there is a transaction, I will get 4,450 points from a Marriott owner
5. I'll use those 4,450 points to book my desired Lahaina Villas reservation
6. My counterparty got access to HGVC on Big Island (in a known week) for less points than Ko Olina
7. I've effectively Direct Exchanged a week at HGVC Waikoloa for 5 nights in MOC
8. I do have Marriott inventory risk, but its the same risk any points user has, and by getting 2013 points, I have the full 13 month window for use.

In this way, I used my companion system to benefit the Marriott owner, and I got a ton of points in exchange.

I think this can be very very powerful, and its only possible because Marriott easily facilitates points transfers (which I think is a great feature). HGVC and Starwood owners can really leverage their very desirable destinations in this manner. Waikoloa? Harborside? Westin St. John?

Can this same approach work for TUGgers who own StarOptions? Are Harborside and WSJ "reservable" at a modest reservation fee? What about DVC?

Thoughts? Or too complicated?


Note: this is not a solicitation -- I'm using my HGVC points myself for 2012 travel (because I rented 2012 Marriott points!)

Greg, this works best if planned far from travel date, for MVC resorts with lots of Trust inventory, if there is mutual trust between 'exchangers'. Great idea, yes yet another option to direct exchangers for the savy TS owner.