Wyndham points - is this the right fit for us?

[MichaelS]

I posted this in the new to TS threads, but also wanted to post here for more specific user replies from Wyndham owners.

So my wife and I just walked out of the Wyndham Bonnet presentation yesterday morning, literally signing papers for an 84k point deal for 13k$. We were in the finance office and while signing I realized they were putting all 13k onto two PayPal credit cards. I told them I didn't want to apply for different cards, and they led me to believe it was some type of paypal loan, but I had my doubts. Sure enough, it was just PayPal cards(my wife didn't even sign up for one, but they still opened one in her name to cover the balance I couldn't get). They led us on to say because I had "perfect credit" (No we don't) we could easily just refinance it within 6 months. No you can't. If I put this on a paypal credit line, any "refinancing" would be a bank giving me an unsecured loan, and that isn't very easy to get. Needless to say I am not thrilled with what they tried doing, but in turn, I have learned that I really would like some points and I am happy I have looked online for this. I went into this whole thing (for a 20$ 7 night stay offer which I did get) thinking I'll leave after my hour and a half, but they actually have a decent program it seems. Much better than the past timeshare stories I hear, but I still need help with what to buy and how much. I am not afraid of numbers, and I am a mod on a financial forum. I am not bringing it up there because I know the stigma that will carry there. I am still somewhat scared to be tied up in this knowing it is lifelong or at least hard to get out of.

I have found someone on eBay that has a good rating and handles everything. He is talking to me about a 150k point option. All advice welcome! I'm a firm believer in the bible verse "There is safety in a multitude of counselors"

One of the main extra features I'm really interested in also is the ability to get extra weeks for really cheap. They claimed I could get a 1bd room for 120$ for a week, up to a 4bd for around 380 for the week. Is this normal? I believe it's an RCI benefit. Last call?

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
I assume Orlando. I'm 5 hours away in GA, and there are a lot of Wyndham resorts within 5 hours or less from me including Smoking mountains. That would put us in line to visit the wife's family who love Dollywood, and my folks and us love Orlando(SeaWorld). They also have one within driving distance for an annual church convention we go to in NC. I think we could really benefit from this. I have 4 kids.


2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
I think at least half the time at the resort in Orlando. We have season passes to Seaworld, and most likely would do other stuff over the years as the kids get older. The other parts would be for church or visiting other family, and occasionally other personal one night stays maybe.

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Orlando, Smoky Mountains, NC, A few places on the SC or GA coast that are just a couple hours out.

4) How many people do you usually travel with?
6-8. There are 6 in my family with kids: 10, 9, 2, 3(weeks). My parents often come with us making it 8.

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
Homeschool

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
Sometimes. CHurch events yes, but other trips possibly. I know we are planning a trip for November now (to use my free week).

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Not usually. 2-3 nights is most common outside of the church event that is nearly a week.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
We are used to 2-3. I normally buy bargain rooms, but with so many of us that is getting more difficult to do.

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
Couple grand right now.

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
I was hoping for something in the 500-700 range. We easily spend that anyway on hotels.

11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
I sure can be.

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?
That's one of the biggest hesitations for this, and why I'm looking for assistance with knowing if this is the right product for us.

 

[MichaelS]

Also, we prefer off-season travel. I can't stand crowds and long wait times, plus hot weather, while on vacation. We love going to FL first part of the year or last part of the year. In between that, it is terrible.

 

[BellaWyn]

Michael,
Just to clarify before you get bombarded with answers to all of the above from other TUGGERS (WELCOME to TUG BTW ) -- you DID rescind the Bonnet Creek purchase you made yesterday, right?

Also, most of what they claimed as "possible" is true, to some grey gradient of truth, some is invented information, but very little of it with an 84K point contract.

 

[ecwinch]

Yes - if you have not already - rescind now as BellaWyn suggests.

The sales process is scientifically designed to induce you to make a very large impulse purchase. One you would be unlikely to make under normal circumstances.

Everything you purchased will be available next week for the same price. But next week your ability to back out this deal will have expired. Rescind now, and make an informed purchase decision at a later date.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Rescind .. 84K in points would get you 2bdr units in old resorts in the lowest off-season time of the year.

 

[Joe33426]

One of the main extra features I'm really interested in also is the ability to get extra weeks for really cheap. They claimed I could get a 1bd room for 120$ for a week, up to a 4bd for around 380 for the week. Is this normal? I believe it's an RCI benefit. Last call?

Welcome to TUG! There are tons of great information here. I recommend doing a lot of reading before buying a timeshare, but it sounds like Wyndham would be a good choice for you. Like you, I was also excited about the possibility of really cheap extra vacations in the off seasons, but I wouldn't expect too much from Last Call weeks and I think that the prices they mentioned are very low. This link provides the last call fees:

http://www.rci.com/resort-directory/post-pow-en_US/help/faqs/fees.page

Plus, I'm thinking that 4 bedroom units are the exception in the timeshare world. Sometimes the exchange companies will offer you a free week, just paying the exchange fee, but even then, I think $120 for a 1bd for a week is unlikely.

The great thing about Wyndham that will probably work good for you is that you can make 3 and 4 night reservations, since you say that you usually travel for less than a week. (And even shorter reservations in the express window) I'd recommend looking at the members directory and the points charts to make sure you buy enough points to make sense. Remember that you'll receive one free reservation transaction per 77K points. So with 150K points, you'll only get one free reservation transaction (good for making many reservations, but only on the same day). Maybe a 154K contract would be better. You also don't mention which resort you're looking at to purchase. It doesn't sound like you need a specific resort or high demand week, so I'd suggest looking for points at a resort with low maintenance fees. In the timeshare world, free or close to free doesn't always mean you're getting a good deal.

 

[MichaelS]

We walked away with them shredding what papers we did sign. We never finished signing everything. We were that close. I was mad about how it would be financed, not the price (at that time). Of course, now I'm REALLY glad we walked away. At first, they told me I can't get the offer the next day when I asked about taking a day to think about it. Then, when they saw I was walking away they told me they would hold it for a couple days while we were still in Orlando. Funny.

So you can only make reservations once for "free" per 77k? That seems odd. I suppose I could get more into a planning type setup with our trips, but we also like spur of the moment sometimes too, or close to it.

 

[whitewater]

Welcome - couple of things:

• glad you saved save 13k
• Welcome glad you found us.
• as a non-VIP resale owner my family loves wyndham.
  • all depends on where you want to go, how much you want to pay up front vs. maintenance fees, and what program if any fits your needs.
• Read these advice articles: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sticky-wyndham-information-and-advice-articles.128302/
• Rent before you buy
• Re-Read advice articles
• Re-re-read advice articles and member directory
• If you still think wyndham a timeshare is for you then go for it. There will be plenty of "deals". Purchase resale, ebay, tugg, private members, etc... just don't pay too much.
• Calculate how many points you would want/need then only get what you want. not more. More just = paying more MF with no use.

Good luck and welcome.

 

[MichaelS]

I get the free week with a 1bd from the presentation gift we got. I didn't plan to use it until November, but there are some other times I would like to use this if we do it. I just have to wrap my head around how you use it, and how to utilize it best for the deals.

 

[uscav8r]

With a family your size, you will need to have enough points to book at least a 2BR (preferably a 3 BR) without the grandparents.

Read the directory to find the points requirements for the locations and times you might want to vacation. Then determine how many points you want to buy.


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[MichaelS]

Where do you find the directory for the points needed for each location?

 

[uscav8r]

Where do you find the directory for the points needed for each location?

There is a link to it in the first post in the Wyndham Information sticky for this forum.


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[nicemann]

Where do you find the directory for the points needed for each location?

This is the latest directory link. Yes it is the 2014-2015 directly but that is the newest they have released. The points have not changed for the properties.

Here is a link with a few changes since that book was released.

 

[Joe33426]

So you can only make reservations once for "free" per 77k? That seems odd. I suppose I could get more into a planning type setup with our trips, but we also like spur of the moment sometimes too, or close to it.

Yes, you will only receive one reservation transaction for every 77,000 points you own, but you can use that one RT to perform multiple transactions during the same business day. That's why 154K would be better than 150K, since you would receive 2 RTs.

The cost to purchase additional reservation transactions is only $30 online or $59 on the phone. But planning ahead and making multiple reservations on the same business day helps to save on cost.

Also remember that you also receive 1 complimentary housekeeping credit for each 1K points you own. So, with a 150K contract, that would be 150 HK credits. This is usually not a problem, unless you do a lot of short stays, because the charge is the same for a three day or seven day stay. The HK charge for a 2-bedroom is 77 credits. So, just say you were able to squeeze those 150K points into three short off-season says in 2-bedroom units, you would need 231 HK credits, but you would only have 150, so you would have to pay for the 81 HK credits you don't have @ 2.25 per credit = $182.25

 

[markb53]

Just to look at some actual numbers:
You mention that you like short stays in off season.
You can get a 3 night stay in at Bonnet Creek in Orlando with an September checkin, which is the value season over a weekend. Checkin Friday and checkout Monday. The point cost would be:
2 BR 60,000 points
3 BR 91,000 points
The value season for Bonnet Creek is most so September
You could also do a 3 day weekend in February or March at Smoky Mountains
2 BR 66,000 points
3 BR 82,000 points.

Now if you don't have to do a weekend it is fewer points. If you did 3 nights with a Sunday checkin:
Bonnet Creek
2 BR 39,000
3 BR 63,000
Smoky mountain
2 BR 45,000
3 BR 54,000

Now lets talk about the maintenance fee cost. If you bought a 154k resale deed Bonnet Creek. You could probably get 2 weekend stays at many resort in the off season. And maybe 3 stays with a Sunday checkin. If you book 2 of them on the same day you wouldn't have to pay a $30.00 RT for the 3rd reservation. Remember with 154k points you get 2RTs.

The maintenance fee for Bonnet creak is currently $5.63 per k. So for a 154k points that comes to: $867.02 plus the minimum program fee of $128.00 for a total of: $995.02. If you bought at Smoky Mtn. it would be a little cheeper. Smoky Mountains MF is currently, depending on which section, is either $4.81 per k or $5.05 per k. For a total including the minimum program fee of either $868.74 or $905.70

The program fee is what Wyndham charges for cover the cost of running the point system. The program fee cost is $.55 per 1000 points with a minimum of $128. So until you get over about 231k points you pay the minimum.

 

[MichaelS]

Just to look at some actual numbers:
You mention that you like short stays in off season.
You can get a 3 night stay in at Bonnet Creek in Orlando with an September checkin, which is the value season over a weekend. Checkin Friday and checkout Monday. The point cost would be:
2 BR 60,000 points
3 BR 91,000 points
The value season for Bonnet Creek is most so September
You could also do a 3 day weekend in February or March at Smoky Mountains
2 BR 66,000 points
3 BR 82,000 points.

Now if you don't have to do a weekend it is fewer points. If you did 3 nights with a Sunday checkin:
Bonnet Creek
2 BR 39,000
3 BR 63,000
Smoky mountain
2 BR 45,000
3 BR 54,000

Now lets talk about the maintenance fee cost. If you bought a 154k resale deed Bonnet Creek. You could probably get 2 weekend stays at many resort in the off season. And maybe 3 stays with a Sunday checkin. If you book 2 of them on the same day you wouldn't have to pay a $30.00 RT for the 3rd reservation. Remember with 154k points you get 2RTs.

The maintenance fee for Bonnet creak is currently $5.63 per k. So for a 154k points that comes to: $867.02 plus the minimum program fee of $128.00 for a total of: $995.02. If you bought at Smoky Mtn. it would be a little cheeper. Smoky Mountains MF is currently, depending on which section, is either $4.81 per k or $5.05 per k. For a total including the minimum program fee of either $868.74 or $905.70

The program fee is what Wyndham charges for cover the cost of running the point system. The program fee cost is $.55 per 1000 points with a minimum of $128. So until you get over about 231k points you pay the minimum.

Thank you for taking the time to look that up for me.

So it looks like along with the maintenance fee, there is a yearly program fee. And then to use it like we most likely would we would end up out of pocket even more it the tune of approx $150-200 for cleanup? Suddenly it doesn't sound so easy to use or get your value out of.

Is it easier to just rent the times we want instead with how I would likely use it ? We are talking 1100 to 1200 a year and I'm not sure the value is there

What about just joining RCI instead?

 

[vacationhopeful]

You need to own an RCI affiliated timeshare to join. With Wyndham points, your membership fee includes that RCI membership (the annual membership is paid).

I have a resort (not a Wyndham) which is affiliated with BOTH RCI and II exchange groups. But that resort doesn't include either annual membership fees with their MFs.

 

[uscav8r]

Thank you for taking the time to look that up for me.

So it looks like along with the maintenance fee, there is a yearly program fee. And then to use it like we most likely would we would end up out of pocket even more it the tune of approx $150-200 for cleanup? Suddenly it doesn't sound so easy to use or get your value out of.

Is it easier to just rent the times we want instead with how I would likely use it ? We are talking 1100 to 1200 a year and I'm not sure the value is there

What about just joining RCI instead?

Unless you do a ton of short stays every year, you should not have any extra "cleaning" costs in Club Wyndham, so you are inflating the cost unnecessarily. You would be hard pressed to find hotel accommodations for 8 people for a week for $1200, especially in Prime season. Then factor in the fact that you would have to dine out every meal if at a hotel, then is even higher expense. At least the TS lets you save by cooking your own meals.

RCI has its own issues, such as exchange fees. It is best used for weeklong stays, not a bunch of long weekends.


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[vacationhopeful]

I find with a large group more than 3 people .. moving into a TS place for less than 7 nights ... with cooking and who is sleeping where ... is just plain hassle and hard work. Even when I travel alone ... getting the milk for breakfast, evening snack before bed, that bottle water or soda for the refrigerator, my coffee creamer verses the powder stuff ,,, the stuff needed for life (unless I want to eat out the entire trip). And travelling with a group... and kids... it has taken my relatives most of the week to relax at the new home.

Of course, if you start as babies ... you could 'train' them to be good little helpers. My youngest nephew would just ask, "how many nights?" and he would pack everything he knew he would need and NEVER whine about forgotten stuff. He was a true joy to travel with...low maintenance.

 

[markb53]

Thank you for taking the time to look that up for me.

So it looks like along with the maintenance fee, there is a yearly program fee. And then to use it like we most likely would we would end up out of pocket even more it the tune of approx $150-200 for cleanup? Suddenly it doesn't sound so easy to use or get your value out of.

Is it easier to just rent the times we want instead with how I would likely use it ? We are talking 1100 to 1200 a year and I'm not sure the value is there

What about just joining RCI instead?

If you booked 2 - 2br per year you would have enough HK (house keeping) if you booked a 2 br and a 3 br you would need 63 more HK which would cost $141.75. It is true, the short stays will raise the cost. Timeshare were originally built on the concept of 1 week stays so they only had to clean the room once a week. When Wyndham came out with the point system and less than one week stays. They felt they needed a way to recover the cost of the house keeping. Weather or not it is a value depends on how you travel. Traveling with 6 to 8 people can be expensive in hotels too. You might need 3 rooms and you don't have a kitchen generally, so you have to eat most or all your meals out. Even if you stayed in an $100.00 per room per night hotel. For 3 rooms that would be $900.00. Do that twice a year that's $1800.00. Plus eating out.

What you might want to consider is renting a timeshare from an owner instead of owning one yourself.
I am a Wyndham Owner but I don't have a large number of points so I rent from other owners if I need more.

 

[BellaWyn]

Of course, if you start as babies ... you could 'train' them to be good little helpers. My youngest nephew would just ask, "how many nights?" and he would pack everything he knew he would need and NEVER whine about forgotten stuff. He was a true joy to travel with...low maintenance.

Have some like this also Linda, and they ARE wonderful to travel with! Also have some NOT like this and PITA is the "nice" way to describe.

Still, every family dynamic is a little different and "hard work" means different things to different people / parents / kids. But when there are more than 3 in a group, the SPACE in a TS is just far superior to what you get in even the best quality hotel, which is cramped and box-like. Even when there are just the two of us I still will opt for a 2BR unit if for nothing else the larger space!

 

[MichaelS]

Can you redeem points to non resort hotels owned by Wyndham, and does that waste a reservation certificate?

 

[Cxt333]

I posted this in the new to TS threads, but also wanted to post here for more specific user replies from Wyndham owners.

So my wife and I just walked out of the Wyndham Bonnet presentation yesterday morning, literally signing papers for an 84k point deal for 13k$. We were in the finance office and while signing I realized they were putting all 13k onto two PayPal credit cards. I told them I didn't want to apply for different cards, and they led me to believe it was some type of paypal loan, but I had my doubts. Sure enough, it was just PayPal cards(my wife didn't even sign up for one, but they still opened one in her name to cover the balance I couldn't get). They led us on to say because I had "perfect credit" (No we don't) we could easily just refinance it within 6 months. No you can't. If I put this on a paypal credit line, any "refinancing" would be a bank giving me an unsecured loan, and that isn't very easy to get. Needless to say I am not thrilled with what they tried doing, but in turn, I have learned that I really would like some points and I am happy I have looked online for this. I went into this whole thing (for a 20$ 7 night stay offer which I did get) thinking I'll leave after my hour and a half, but they actually have a decent program it seems. Much better than the past timeshare stories I hear, but I still need help with what to buy and how much. I am not afraid of numbers, and I am a mod on a financial forum. I am not bringing it up there because I know the stigma that will carry there. I am still somewhat scared to be tied up in this knowing it is lifelong or at least hard to get out of.

I have found someone on eBay that has a good rating and handles everything. He is talking to me about a 150k point option. All advice welcome! I'm a firm believer in the bible verse "There is safety in a multitude of counselors"

One of the main extra features I'm really interested in also is the ability to get extra weeks for really cheap. They claimed I could get a 1bd room for 120$ for a week, up to a 4bd for around 380 for the week. Is this normal? I believe it's an RCI benefit. Last call?

1) Where do you want your home resort to be?
I assume Orlando. I'm 5 hours away in GA, and there are a lot of Wyndham resorts within 5 hours or less from me including Smoking mountains. That would put us in line to visit the wife's family who love Dollywood, and my folks and us love Orlando(SeaWorld). They also have one within driving distance for an annual church convention we go to in NC. I think we could really benefit from this. I have 4 kids.


2) Do you want to visit your home resort at least half the time, or do you want to trade more than half the time?
I think at least half the time at the resort in Orlando. We have season passes to Seaworld, and most likely would do other stuff over the years as the kids get older. The other parts would be for church or visiting other family, and occasionally other personal one night stays maybe.

3) What are your 5 top trade destinations?
Orlando, Smoky Mountains, NC, A few places on the SC or GA coast that are just a couple hours out.

4) How many people do you usually travel with?
6-8. There are 6 in my family with kids: 10, 9, 2, 3(weeks). My parents often come with us making it 8.

5) Can you travel any time, or are you locked into the school schedule?
Homeschool

6) Can you make firm plans 12 or more mos. in advance?
Sometimes. CHurch events yes, but other trips possibly. I know we are planning a trip for November now (to use my free week).

7) Can you vacation for a full week at a time?
Not usually. 2-3 nights is most common outside of the church event that is nearly a week.

8) What level of accommodations do you prefer on a scale of 1 to 5 stars?
We are used to 2-3. I normally buy bargain rooms, but with so many of us that is getting more difficult to do.

9) How much can you afford to spend upfront, without financing?
Couple grand right now.

10) How much can you afford to spend every year for a maintenance fee that will come due right after Christmas, and increase each year?
I was hoping for something in the 500-700 range. We easily spend that anyway on hotels.

11) Are you a detail oriented planner?
I sure can be.

12) Do you understand that once you buy a timeshare, it may be very difficult to sell or give away, and you are responsible for all fees, until you do?
That's one of the biggest hesitations for this, and why I'm looking for assistance with knowing if this is the right product for us.

Well good you canceled. Take a few months and read these posts.
"I'm a firm believer in the bible verse "There is safety in a multitude of counselors"
If that is so, then you also know don't be a debtor. Never borrow money to get into a vacation club, timeshare. If you can't pay cash you don't buy. I bought resale, I really enjoy Wyndham porperties, definitely great vacations we have taken. Take your time. One thing I always say.....people send my time researching a $500 tv purchase then they do 10k timeshare. Crazy stuff A.

 

[MichaelS]

He bible isn't against debt, but it does teach it is something you want to avoid as much as possible I thought of this like a mortage going into it, but when I found out it was just going to be a credit card I said no. Now I'm looking for what I can get with cash instead.

 

[BellaWyn]

Can you redeem points to non resort hotels owned by Wyndham, and does that waste a reservation certificate?

Not exactly. You can get discounted rates at those locations using your Wyndham ownership member number.

You can deposit your vacation ownership points into RCI to stay at AVAILABLE timeshare locations not owned by Wyndham.