Wyndham Flagstaff

[VictorBoc]

I have to say I love Flagstaff. Going on my 4th day here. I can see why you all love the Wyndham properities. This is only my first location but if every location is close to this I think I am going to be really happy. When I checked in everyone was so pleasant. No lines at all at 5 PM. I was shocked. Nothing like other hotels we have been to. Got our parking pass and an offer of $100 for attending a presentation of the Wyndham Network.

We got a very nice 1 bedroom deluxe. It has a great deck on the back of it. Place is much better then any other place I have been. Never seen a full kitchen available when I was on vacation. Wife enjoy cooking so she is having fun. Love the club house. Pool is a little bit crowded with the kids. Wife was able to kick my butt in mini golf.

Went to the Wyndham presentation and heard from all the owners that were there. They all love it also. When we meet with the sales guy really nice man. Not high pressured at all. Broke down how much we have been spending on our vacations for regular hotel rooms and how much it would be over the next 20 years with Wyndham. Explained how we could be platinum and get a lot of stays upgraded for half price. Then went on how the place is great for retires like us (I took early retirement at 55) and how we can pass it down to our kids when we no longer want to travel. I believe he took care of us. I heard stories of how timeshares can be and it did not feel like that at all.

I am glad to part of the family. Really hope to run into some of your over the years. I am sure I will be coming here for questions once my account can be accessed online.

 

[Luanne]

Did I gather correctly that you bought while at the presentation? I'm sure others will jump in and tell you to rescind while you can, do some research, and buy resale.

We don't own Wyndham, we do own two "weeks" timeshares that we've had for years. On a recent visit to San Francisco we stayed in a Wyndham property and opted to go to their presentation. We took our 26 year old daughter with us. We were all appalled at how much they wanted for the points. We knew we weren't going to buy, but it was interesting to hear their pitch.

 

[rhonda]

Wishing you a warm and sincere welcome. I'm very glad to read your enjoyment of Wyndham Flagstaff as I just confirmed an RCI exchange into that location later this year. I'm also glad you found this site ... and hope you have both time and interest to entertain the onslaught of info you are about to receive.

Keep you mind open, if you will, to consider rescinding your recent purchase (much as I know you love it) and to explore repurchase of the core features via resale? You only have a few days from time you signed to rescind ... but you can always repurchase any way you choose after more thorough research and consideration.

 

[VictorBoc]

Thanks for the advice going into another owner mentioned resell but when we started to talk to the sales man he showed me a memo saying resell points can not do a lot of things. Then he explained they just launched a new website (which I am being to read about on here) and once it gets 100% they will remove even more items from resell buyers. He informed me they are removing the right to go to different properties if you are deeded. He also told me they are going to start charging higher monthly fees for resell then buying directly from them. So after doing the math it was the best thing to go this way. He even saved me about $55,000 since I bought on our first stay.

 

[MaryBella7]

In short, he was lying. Lying in a big way. If anyone has been or will be stripped of rights, it is sadly the people who made direct purchases from Wyndham.

I have over a million resale points. Paid a few thousand for all of them. They don't tell me about resale not getting to use points at the meetings, because they know I know they are lying.

 

[Baby Jane]

It really depends on your perspective. We are VIP Platinum and until the website cock up our only complaint has been the sales pitch whenever you travel. I do not regret buying from developer over resale. Only regret was letting our smoky's go for CWA. I have been looking and for the most part the places we like to travel in off season have been available in the 60 day window and I managed to get the vacation we need with our grandchildren in July for next year. I like getting the discounts and over our lifetime it will have paid for itself. If I buy resale and do not get the VIP benefits I would have to pay more maintenance fees to get the same amount of use my points get me and all the booking and guest fees etc. I am glad for TUG for information but noticed 95% of it is complaints. The resale may work if all you want is one summer week or like some of these guys have millions of points to rent but if you just want to take lots of vacations I think Platinum is the way to go. Just make sure you don't attend anymore sales pitches.

 

[VictorBoc]

It really depends on your perspective. We are VIP Platinum and until the website cock up our only complaint has been the sales pitch whenever you travel. I do not regret buying from developer over resale. Only regret was letting our smoky's go for CWA. I have been looking and for the most part the places we like to travel in off season have been available in the 60 day window and I managed to get the vacation we need with our grandchildren in July for next year. I like getting the discounts and over our lifetime it will have paid for itself. If I buy resale and do not get the VIP benefits I would have to pay more maintenance fees to get the same amount of use my points get me and all the booking and guest fees etc. I am glad for TUG for information but noticed 95% of it is complaints. The resale may work if all you want is one summer week or like some of these guys have millions of points to rent but if you just want to take lots of vacations I think Platinum is the way to go. Just make sure you don't attend anymore sales pitches.

So funny my wife told me no more sales pitches. She is happy with the purchase but told me a million points is enough for us and the kids. I think we will save the time on future trips and just skip them. At least for awhile.

 

[spackler]

Doing Wyndham math, developer points make sense. Doing actual math, resale does.

The tiny amounts you save on RT fees, HK fees, or the occasional discount never add up to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands you pay upfront for developer points.

(That being said, I'll be enjoying Flagstaff myself in a few months with my near-zero cost resale points.)

 

[VictorBoc]

Doing Wyndham math, developer points make sense. Doing actual math, resale does.

The tiny amounts you save on RT fees, HK fees, or the occasional discount never add up to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands you pay upfront for developer points.

(That being said, I'll be enjoying Flagstaff myself in a few months with my near-zero cost resale points.)

Are you deeded with Flagstaff or part of the club? Only ask since he mentioned they would be changing the resell rules here shortly.

 

[spackler]

Are you deeded with Flagstaff or part of the club? Only ask since he mentioned they would be changing the resell rules here shortly.

Timeshare salesmen have been saying that for years; it's a lie.

Ask him to you show you that in writing. He won't...because he can't.

 

[CO skier]

When we meet with the sales guy really nice man. Not high pressured at all.

He even saved me about $55,000 since I bought on our first stay.

She is happy with the purchase but told me a million points is enough for us and the kids.

Would you like us to help you save about $200,000?

The nice sales guy lied to you. Resale points will continue to work as well as points purchased from the Developer.

You can purchase 1 million resale Club Wyndham Access points for less than $10,000. They will not have the Developer frills that are not worth much, but the CWA points will get you 13-month Advance Priority access to Flagstaff and more than 60 other resorts.

Rescind the contract before it is too late, and you are stuck overpaying. Learn as much as possible before buying a timeshare.

If somehow after all that learning you still think Wyndham Platinum is for you, you can bet you will be able to buy again at the same, or maybe a better price, depending on your negotiating skill.

 

[bnoble]

I also love Wyndham resorts. Love them. I've been a happy owner for about a decade now.

However, do yourself a favor, and rescind. Then, do some research. If you later decide that the extra benefits of buying directly from Wyndham are worth the extra cost it takes to buy that way, then call the sales office at Flagstaff and ask them to re-write the deal you just signed. They will fall all over themselves to write it up.

But, if you instead decide that a resale purchase makes more sense for you and your family's vacation needs, then you'll have a lot more cash on hand to do all those other things one does on vacation---going out to eat, going on tours, etc.

 

[cayman01]

To give you some perspective we bought 1.4 million points for a little over $10k. We paid a PREMIUM resale because it is a Presidential Reserve contract and carries a much LOWER maintenance fee cost. $4.52/1000 pts. Compare that with what you have.

Now, on to VIP. With the new changes in rules your ability to get discounts will be reduced. Not saying you won't get some ( you will) but not near as many as the salesperson told you. Also, the VIP benefits are the only real difference between buying resale and directly from Wyndham. Is it worth the extra $100k+ that VIP owners pay? Most here will say not. I would agree with them. There are other benefits to VIP, unlimited Transactions, unlimited housekeeping, but not enough to justify the cost for them.

If you still have time to rescind I would do it and then come back here and educate yourself some more about Wyndham and their system. The resorts are really nice. In our first year of ownership we have stayed at Bonnet Creek three times, Sapphire Valley, Smokey Mountains and Ocean Ridge with upcoming trips to Star Island,Flagstaff, Angel Fire, Pagosa Springs, and three Bonnet Creek ressies. AND we will have about 400,000 points leftover for RCI deposit. We don't really NEED the discounts.

I have no complaints about the resorts other than the sales people. They lie like a rug and do it in the nicest way possible. And then when you say no they tend to get nasty. Fortunately you didn't see the bad side to the salespeople. UNfortunately your knowledge of Wyndham was limited when you went to the meeting. Take the time to educate yourself and then if you still want to buy direct go ahead. The deal will still be there, I guarantee it.

 

[VictorBoc]

Thank you everyone who responded. I guess I need to think about it and talk to the wife. I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want. I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.

So going outside of the resell...looking at buying from Wyndham. Now I was told, VIP Platinum cost $250,000. Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000. Talking to the manager that was the best price we could get. It is "Club Wyndham Access" which gets us in early to over 50 resorts instead of only booking 10 months out. If I was to not go resell, is that a decent price?

 

[bnoble]

I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want.

After doing your research, you will learn whether this is a legitimate fear or not. If you decide it is a legitimate fear, then you can always buy points again directly from Wyndham, at the price you have today.

That's the beauty of rescinding---you can always re-do the deal if you decide you want to. However, if you don't rescind by the deadline, then you can't undo the deal if you later decide you should have.

 

[MaryBella7]

I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.

Wyndham just changed A LOT of the perks of buying from them - mainly in the way the discount system works. Guess who was the least impacted by all of the current changes? Resale owners. They have been telling the same story for years.

Did they also tell you you could cancel reservations and rebook at a discount? Did they tell you you would get automatic upgrades? Did you buy into VIP or did you get some bonus points for temporary VIP? Did they tell you your Wyndham Rewards card would pay off your maintenance fees? Did they tell you that you would get to go on cruises or pay for airfare with unused points? Did they tell you that you would get great last minute vacations through RCI at a huge discount? If so and if those are some of the things that led to your decision to purchase, rescind and research. Believe me, your "deal" will be there whenever you want it should you choose to buy it later. Or you can get CWA resale and by virtue of the type of purchase/points that they are, you will have access to most of the resorts that they cannot take away.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Wyndham vacations. I also LOVE that I paid so little for them. I get into the same 4 bedroom Presidential units that those who purchased from the developer get into at 10 months.

 

[paxsarah]

Thank you everyone who responded. I guess I need to think about it and talk to the wife. I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want. I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.

So going outside of the resell...looking at buying from Wyndham. Now I was told, VIP Platinum cost $250,000. Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000. Talking to the manager that was the best price we could get. It is "Club Wyndham Access" which gets us in early to over 50 resorts instead of only booking 10 months out. If I was to not go resell, is that a decent price?

As others have said, the sales lie that resale points will be limited in some way has been around for a long time. I bought my resale points in 2010, and here's an example of basically the same story in 2009: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...included-in-points-system.104394/#post-775601

Spoiler alert: my points still spend just fine to the present day. I've stayed at various Wyndham resorts, used ARP for summer beach weeks, and exchanged and purchased cash vacations through RCI. Because we take longer (5-7 day) vacations, I think we've paid for housekeeping fees maybe once, and I think I've averaged probably less than one paid reservation transaction per year. We really enjoy our Wyndham ownership and haven't found it to be devalued because we're resale owners.

 

[VictorBoc]

Wyndham just changed A LOT of the perks of buying from them - mainly in the way the discount system works. Guess who was the least impacted by all of the current changes? Resale owners. They have been telling the same story for years.

Did they also tell you you could cancel reservations and rebook at a discount? Did they tell you you would get automatic upgrades? Did you buy into VIP or did you get some bonus points for temporary VIP? Did they tell you your Wyndham Rewards card would pay off your maintenance fees? Did they tell you that you would get to go on cruises or pay for airfare with unused points? Did they tell you that you would get great last minute vacations through RCI at a huge discount? If so and if those are some of the things that led to your decision to purchase, rescind and research. Believe me, your "deal" will be there whenever you want it should you choose to buy it later. Or you can get CWA resale and by virtue of the type of purchase/points that they are, you will have access to most of the resorts that they cannot take away.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Wyndham vacations. I also LOVE that I paid so little for them. I get into the same 4 bedroom Presidential units that those who purchased from the developer get into at 10 months.

• He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible. They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
• Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
• I bought a million points with no bonus points.
• No offer of a credit card.
• He mentioned I could use the points for air travel and then lowered his voice and told me it is not worth it. Not sure if he is supposed to mention it can be and that is why he said that part louder.
• Talked about RCI a little bit but did not go into much detail.

I bought it this morning so I have a couple of days to really think about it. I can get the letter out on Saturday if I decide to go that way.

Still really would like to know if $195,000 is a decent price for a million non-resell points.

 

[rhonda]

Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000.

Is it important to you that this large ticket purchase maintain value outside your own personal enjoyment?

There are two components to this purchase:

• The Wyndham CWA points. This is the core feature which enables you to book reservations within the network of Wyndham CWA properties. This component can be resold/transferred, if needed, but has a much lower resale market value than you might expect.
• The Wyndham "fluff." This is a large blanket of promises from the developer. Some features have monitory value (like free housekeeping) allowing you to determine your value on the feature. Others, like a cruise exchange, you might use now and again as a convenience but not likely at a cost savings. This component has an excessive price tag for buy-in but cannot be resold or transferred except to your immediate family. If you choose to sell or downsize the holdings, the next recipient cannot benefit from these incidentals.

As you evaluate, be mindful that many of the promises of "you can do this or that" don't wash out well when evaluated for "things you should do" (financial tradeoff, etc.).

Best wishes with a difficult analysis you hadn't planned to do while on vacation.

 

[VictorBoc]

As others have said, the sales lie that resale points will be limited in some way has been around for a long time. I bought my resale points in 2010, and here's an example of basically the same story in 2009: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?...included-in-points-system.104394/#post-775601

Spoiler alert: my points still spend just fine to the present day. I've stayed at various Wyndham resorts, used ARP for summer beach weeks, and exchanged and purchased cash vacations through RCI. Because we take longer (5-7 day) vacations, I think we've paid for housekeeping fees maybe once, and I think I've averaged probably less than one paid reservation transaction per year. We really enjoy our Wyndham ownership and haven't found it to be devalued because we're resale owners.

Thank you for the thread. Glad to see they have been saying that for 8 years now. He just sounded really confident. Guess I shouldn't be too worried about that anymore.

 

[cayman01]

• He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible. They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
• Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
• I bought a million points with no bonus points.
• No offer of a credit card.
• He mentioned I could use the points for air travel and then lowered his voice and told me it is not worth it. Not sure if he is supposed to mention it can be and that is why he said that part louder.
• Talked about RCI a little bit but did not go into much detail.

I bought it this morning so I have a couple of days to really think about it. I can get the letter out on Saturday if I decide to go that way.

Still really would like to know if $195,000 is a decent price for a million non-resell points.

No, $195k is not a good price. The original tag on the resale I bought was $175k and that was for well over one million points AND included Presidential Reserve. AND do NOT talk to the salesperson. He stands to make as much as $30k on this sale and will do or say ANYTHING to make sure it stays sold.

 

[dagger1]

Thank you everyone who responded. I guess I need to think about it and talk to the wife. I am just scared to go resell and then not be able to use the points where I want. I like the idea knowing the points will be good forever and not worry about Wyndham changing it because I did not buy from them.

So going outside of the resell...looking at buying from Wyndham. Now I was told, VIP Platinum cost $250,000. Just because I bought on my first trip I was able to get it for $195,000. Talking to the manager that was the best price we could get. It is "Club Wyndham Access" which gets us in early to over 50 resorts instead of only booking 10 months out. If I was to not go resell, is that a decent price?

We bought 1,087,000 CWA points Club Wyndham Access) for $4200 TOTAL. Imagine putting $190,000 in a 6-7% tax free municipal trust. You will earn $12-$14K annually tax free) to pay your $6600 annual MF's and other travel miscellaneous. AND you will keep your $190K plus have your million CWA points. As you said, CWA points have ARP at 60 plus resorts. They lied when they said you will not be able to use resell points. This is what they do. Rescind tomorrow! Then spend some time here on TUG, read every post on the Wyndham thread. You can always buy from the developer.

 

[dagger1]

Also, I assume you like Flagstaff better than Sedona. We will be at both in September, at Wyndham Flagstaff and Sedona. But we also booked three nights at Hyatt Pinon Pointe (Sedona) for our daughter. The Hyatt is MUCH nicer than the Wyndham.... TS's are NOT the same quality... Do some research before you drop $200K. AND JOIN TUG asap!!!

 

[Railman83]

So I know you've heard people here tell you that resale is better but you fear getting stuck with resale points you can't use and you aren't sure if a bunch of strangers on a message board are right about resale not losing its use.

Approach this another way. If Wyndham ever restricted resale like the salesman said, why would anyone ever buy a developer timeshare that no body would ever want? Wyndham can't destroy resale or no one would ever buy something that can't be unloaded.

Even if the could you hold a deeded property and if they started refusing your program fee, inventory at key places dries up for everybody, including VIP

Every timeshare system faces this same problem. Disney keeps a rofr price floor but Wyndham would go broke trying that because they have 50 years of inventory.

Somewhere there is a retail buyer just like you but 50 years older and can't travel. What does he do? He dumps it to guys like us.

• He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible. They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
• Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
• I bought a million points with no bonus points.
• No offer of a credit card.
• He mentioned I could use the points for air travel and then lowered his voice and told me it is not worth it. Not sure if he is supposed to mention it can be and that is why he said that part louder.
• Talked about RCI a little bit but did not go into much detail.

I bought it this morning so I have a couple of days to really think about it. I can get the letter out on Saturday if I decide to go that way.

Still really would like to know if $195,000 is a decent price for a million non-resell points.

 

[MaryBella7]

• He did mention cancel and rebook but said it is not as easy as it use to be but still possible. They used Flagstaff as an example since it is not a very large tourist trap, it is easier to do.
• Said automatic upgrades are done on the website, but can do the manual ones also.
• I bought a million points with no bonus points.
• No offer of a credit card.
• He mentioned I could use the points for air travel and then lowered his voice and told me it is not worth it. Not sure if he is supposed to mention it can be and that is why he said that part louder.
• Talked about RCI a little bit but did not go into much detail.

I bought it this morning so I have a couple of days to really think about it. I can get the letter out on Saturday if I decide to go that way.

Still really would like to know if $195,000 is a decent price for a million non-resell points.

I am glad that you were not fed as much garbage as many are in a sales presentation.

You paid about $190,000 more for your points than you would for a resale CWA contract. If you needed or wanted to sell your timeshare next year (or next week), you would get about $190,000 less than you just paid. That is NOT a good deal. VIP is nice, don't get me wrong, but for me, it isn't $190,000 nice - the only difference I see is no newspaper at my door in the morning, and I don't have the ability to get places at a discount that I likely wouldn't be able to get anyway since I have to travel during prime time for the most part.

If you have it to spend, and you want to spend it, by all means do it. I am not bashing you - I wish I could have that ability! If you are only worried about resale losing the ability to book multiple places, just get a CWA resale and save yourself a LOT of money.