What to do in China?

[glypnirsgirl]

Added Hungzou

I am concerned about joining a tour group. Several of Ian's co-workers have warned Ian that the tour groups take you to sights for a short period of time, then to shops for much longer periods of time. I vehemently dislike shopping. The shopping issue is the main reason that I have wanted a private guide.

Ian's boss has added Hungzou to their itinerary. It will be after Shenzen and possible after Shanghai.

Does anyone know anything about Hungzou? Hangzhou? Zhengzhou - maybe? I am attempting to spell in phonetically.

elaine

 

[vacationhopeful]

The gift shop routine happened on a 3 day bus tour in Ireland to me. At the 2nd shop, a sharp guy talked to several others on the bus and told the driver & tour guide, we wanted to go to Irish pubs. Guide explained the bus company had these stops scheduled with the "gift" shops and the shops counted the people off the bus, etc. Mr Sharpy asked if they counted on our TIPS as their income as we (us on the bus) wanted to go to Irish pubs. And We would tip VERY well or NOT at all. So the rule was "one shop, one pub", but everyone had to get off the bus and walk thru the gift shop (okay, we fasted walked thru the gift shop). The 80yo guy ducked low in his seat and 6 month pregant lady walked in the front door and out. The other bus with us NEVER caught on; and we tipped our driver very well.

BUT I don't think that would work in China.

 

[yoohoo]

It is Hangzhou. If you are in Hangzhou, it is not far from Yellow Mountain. Yellow Mountain may not be the correct name. Its Chinese name translate to Yellow Mountain.

As for the shopping, the guide and the tour company get a commission for the stuff you buy. The higher price tours have less shopping; they all have some shopping. We did have good experience at a rug factory in Xian. A silk 10X10 rug started at $3,800. We got it $1,100. You need to bargain and bargain hard. It was appraised at $9,000 back home. We are thinking about selling this and going back to Xian to get another one to pay for the whole trip.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

It is Hangzhou. If you are in Hangzhou, it is not far from Yellow Mountain. Yellow Mountain may not be the correct name. Its Chinese name translate to Yellow Mountain.

As for the shopping, the guide and the tour company get a commission for the stuff you buy. The higher price tours have less shopping; they all have some shopping. We did have good experience at a rug factory in Xian. A silk 10X10 rug started at $3,800. We got it $1,100. You need to bargain and bargain hard. It was appraised at $9,000 back home. We are thinking about selling this and going back to Xian to get another one to pay for the whole trip.

WOW! A new way to finance traveling! I am impressed.

And you are correct - it is Hangzhou.

elaine

 

[lily28]

Hangzhou is about 3 hour by bus and 90 minutes by fast train from shanghai.
It has West Lake, temples, silk products and foods. You can hire a car to circle the west lake and make sightseeing stops along the way. There are also little boats for hire to cruise the west lake; make sure to make stops at the small islands there as well. you can also take shuttle ferry to the island as well. There are also very nice restaurants along the west lake as well. If you want silk products, Hangzhou is the place to get them, especially silk comforters and silk screens.

 

[ScubaKat]

This thread is making me want to go to China.. My brother relocated to Shanghai with his job and have been trying to get us to visit. I am so not interested in seeing another big city but definitely want to visit the historical sites... We are heading to Taiwan to visit family for close to a month this December... Was going to do Phuket has a side trip.. Now maybe we should do China instead... Hmm.. Soooo not looking forward to the flight with our 2 year old!! We used to visit once a year before dd was born.. Now kinda regretting not going when she was still immobile..

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Hangzhou is about 3 hour by bus and 90 minutes by fast train from shanghai.
It has West Lake, temples, silk products and foods. You can hire a car to circle the west lake and make sightseeing stops along the way. There are also little boats for hire to cruise the west lake; make sure to make stops at the small islands there as well. you can also take shuttle ferry to the island as well. There are also very nice restaurants along the west lake as well. If you want silk products, Hangzhou is the place to get them, especially silk comforters and silk screens.

I am so glad to know this. I had never heard of Hangzhou before. With your initial positive remarks, I was motivated to go look for information.

It looks like it maybe the prettiest natural area we may see.

I really dislike shopping --- and even I can be lured in by the thought of a silk comforter!

Thanks!

elaine

 

[glypnirsgirl]

This thread is making me want to go to China.. My brother relocated to Shanghai with his job and have been trying to get us to visit. I am so not interested in seeing another big city but definitely want to visit the historical sites... We are heading to Taiwan to visit family for close to a month this December... Was going to do Phuket has a side trip.. Now maybe we should do China instead... Hmm.. Soooo not looking forward to the flight with our 2 year old!! We used to visit once a year before dd was born.. Now kinda regretting not going when she was still immobile..

There is an amazing amount of things to see and do in China.

When I first started planning this trip, the thought of not being able to read signs and speak the language was overwhelming.

With English speaking guide recommendations, I am much less intimidated now.

I am thrilled to be going. I have dreamt of going to China for 30 years ... and now it is less than a month away1

elaine

 

[Jwerking]

There is an amazing amount of things to see and do in China.

When I first started planning this trip, the thought of not being able to read signs and speak the language was overwhelming.

With English speaking guide recommendations, I am much less intimidated now.

I am thrilled to be going. I have dreamt of going to China for 30 years ... and now it is less than a month away1

elaine

You just need to be adventuresome to overcome the language barrier - some do it better than others. My husband hated it and never wants to go back.

I have a funny story. We always had the hotel write down in Chinese where we wanted to go and then showed the hotel business card to the taxi driver to return. The day we visited the Forbidden City, I could see from my tour book that we were relatively close to a very popular Peking Duck restaurant. My girls said there was no way we could go since we didn't have the name written for the taxi driver in English. Whatever - I showed the driver the tour book - pointed to where we were and pointed to where I wanted to go on the map. He shook his head yes and we got in. On the way, I told him in Cantonese that I wanted to eat and made a quacking noise like a duck. I thought my daughters were going to faint from embarrassment and told me that ducks probably don't quack in Chinese. Anyway, he took us directly to the restaurant - so see, anything is possible - just be creative.

However, about 20% of the drivers did not want to bother with us with our lack of language. They would just wave us off even after they had stopped to pick us up. It was sort of rude - but whatever. I would think that since the Olympics, it is much easier to get around and signage is much better. I believe now that one can take the subway in Beijing, but 8 yrs ago, nothing was in English.

I agree about the shopping on the bus tours - it is a fact of life. If you can really get a private guide for $100 per day ( like someone posted), it is a no brainer.

Joyce

 

[lily28]

Elaine. If you have extra time in Shanghai, you can consider taking a side trip to Suzhou which is about 1 hour away from Shanghai by bus/car. This city is known for its sceneries and formal chinese gardens. Suzhou and Hangzhou were known as heavenly cities on earth in Ancient China because of their beautiful sceneries and pretty women.
When you go to the Forbidden city /palace museum in Beijing, make sure to enter it from the front but leave from the back entrance. Don't double back to the front gate. There is a small park across the street from the back entrance of Forbidden City. This park has a tree where the last Ming emperor hanged himself when the Qing emperor / invaders took control of China in 1500's. However, this tree was not the originally one as that one was destroyed during the cultural revolution. I thought it was interesting to learn some of the Chinese history.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Here is what the itinerary looks like as of now. I would appreciate suggestions:

Day 1 Arrive Shanghai - recuperate (hotel selected by H's company)

Day 2 Train to Hangzhou (about 1.5 hours), shop at silk market, enjoy West Lake, take boat ride on lake
Staying Dragon Hotel
Eating?

Day 3 Hangzhou ??? - unsure what to do on this day
Staying Dragon Hotel

Day 4 return to Shanghai, flight to Xi'an
Staying Sofitel Rejnmin Square

Day 5 - Terra Cotta Warriors and Ming Tombs

Day 6 - Flight to Beijing - staying Raffles Hotel

Day 7 - Tian'anmen Square
Forbidden City
Hutongs
Niujie Ox Street
Dadong Peking Duck dinner

Day 8 -
Mutianyu Great Wall
Ming Tombs

Day 9
Temple of Heaven
Olympic Stadium
Summer Palace

Day 10
Panjiayuan Market
798 Art District
Silk Market

Day 11 depart for Tokyo

The Beijing itinerary is the itinerary that was suggested to us by the guide recommended by CatLovers.

Because of Joyce's suggestion of using the audio tours for the Forbidden City, I chose a hotel so close that I cannot get lost and I will not need a guide on that day.

Ian's co-workers are making flash cards for me for some common phrases, names and addresses of our hotels and the names of the sightst that we want to see in case I get lost.

Thanks everyone for your help. I am more excited and less nervous as this is coming together.

I found out today that I will need flu shot, hepatitis A and hepatitis B and I will need to go to the public health department to get all 3.

I am printing out the visa application now that I have the hotel reservations.

elaine

 

[lily28]

Elaine. You can go to Lin Yin Temple in Hangzhou. If I remember correctly, it is about 30-45 minutes away from the West Lake. It is near one of the mountain, has multiple temples along the mountain, with pagodas and grottos. When we join tours (us tours to china), this place is usually on the initinary. In turn of eating, there is a very good and famous restaurant on the West Lake but I forgot the name. It has 2 stories and you can request a table on the 2nd floor balcony overlook the West Lake. Try the fish soup, shrimps and the 2 layer pork dish (half fatty meat, half lean meat that practically melt in your mouth).

I notice you don't have much time in Shanghai, but do try to see the Bund. You can also try the famou crab and pork dumplings at a restaurant near the Yu Garden.

I have one suggestion on your beijing initinary. I think you will felel rushed to have both summer palace (which is in the suburb ) and the temple of heaven (which is in city center) the same day. You can easily spend 2/3 of day at the summer palace. Since you mention you don't like to shop, you can go to temple of heaven on your last day in Beijing. The silk market opens pretty late; it was still full of people when we left there at 8:30 in June of this year. If you going to shop at the silk market, you need to bargain hard. Start at 20% of the offered price and bargain upward. I think you will overpay if you only get 50% off. When I was there in June, I ended up paying 120 yuans ($20 us) when I was originally quoted 680 yuan for a nice handbag. Some of our tour members ended up paying only 150 yuan for a 26 inch wheeled expandible suitcase.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Elaine. You can go to Lin Yin Temple in Hangzhou. If I remember correctly, it is about 30-45 minutes away from the West Lake. It is near one of the mountain, has multiple temples along the mountain, with pagodas and grottos. When we join tours (us tours to china), this place is usually on the initinary. In turn of eating, there is a very good and famous restaurant on the West Lake but I forgot the name. It has 2 stories and you can request a table on the 2nd floor balcony overlook the West Lake. Try the fish soup, shrimps and the 2 layer pork dish (half fatty meat, half lean meat that practically melt in your mouth).

I notice you don't have much time in Shanghai, but do try to see the Bund. You can also try the famou crab and pork dumplings at a restaurant near the Yu Garden.

I have one suggestion on your beijing initinary. I think you will felel rushed to have both summer palace (which is in the suburb ) and the temple of heaven (which is in city center) the same day. You can easily spend 2/3 of day at the summer palace. Since you mention you don't like to shop, you can go to temple of heaven on your last day in Beijing. The silk market opens pretty late; it was still full of people when we left there at 8:30 in June of this year. If you going to shop at the silk market, you need to bargain hard. Start at 20% of the offered price and bargain upward. I think you will overpay if you only get 50% off. When I was there in June, I ended up paying 120 yuans ($20 us) when I was originally quoted 680 yuan for a nice handbag. Some of our tour members ended up paying only 150 yuan for a 26 inch wheeled expandible suitcase.

What wonderful advice.

I like the idea of separating Temple of Heaven from the Summer Palace if they are far apart. I can spend hours looking at architecture, almost as long looking at museums.

The advice for the silk market is helpful, too. I would have never started this low in negotiating.

I am hoping to get silk comforters for my family for Christmas. Which market will be best for getting these?

Reading your post made me realize that last night, I did not get the dumplings that I ordered at Port Arthur (a wonderful Chinese restaurant in Newport News, VA).

I am looking forward to this trip. Ian leaves this week. He will be in Hong Kong and Shenzen for 3 weeks without me.

(historically, it is when Ian goes to China that I end up with really good deals on timeshares from ebay. I am trying to restrain myself by not even looking to see what is there).

elaine

 

[lily28]

Elaine. You probably should only get the silk comforters in big department stores or government silk comforter stores that are in big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Hangzhou in order to assure the silk comforter' degree of purity. You want 100% silk comforters, don't get the mixture one. You can get queen and king size; they come in chinese pound. You can buy a 1 pound silk queen one for the summer, or buy 2 1-pound one to use both for the winter. Few years ago, these stores push for the sale of silk comforters. Now they are trying to sell the silk cover in addition to the comforters. The silk duvet cover costs more than the comforter but it feels very good and soft against skin. Silk comforter only costs about $100 us. Silk Comforter sizes in china are slightly smaller than those in the U.S. I bought the silk comforter and silk duvet cover at a silk comforter store In Beijing in June of this year (both costed me $200 us and my cousin bought a set for $400); then I bought another cotton duvet cover at a regular department store with a much lower cost (about $40). Also, the store will vacuum the bag and compress them into smaller size for easier transport home. You can bargain at these silk store. My cousin and I were able to bargain down the price and got them to throw in 2 free cushions capable of becoming a small quilt and 2 free silk pillow cases each.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Elaine. You probably should only get the silk comforters in big department stores or government silk comforter stores that are in big cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Hangzhou in order to assure the silk comforter' degree of purity. You want 100% silk comforters, don't get the mixture one. You can get queen and king size; they come in chinese pound. You can buy a 1 pound silk queen one for the summer, or buy 2 1-pound one to use both for the winter. Few years ago, these stores push for the sale of silk comforters. Now they are trying to sell the silk cover in addition to the comforters. The silk duvet cover costs more than the comforter but it feels very good and soft against skin. Silk comforter only costs about $100 us. Silk Comforter sizes in china are slightly smaller than those in the U.S. I bought the silk comforter and silk duvet cover at a silk comforter store In Beijing in June of this year (both costed me $200 us and my cousin bought a set for $400); then I bought another cotton duvet cover at a regular department store with a much lower cost (about $40). Also, the store will vacuum the bag and compress them into smaller size for easier transport home. You can bargain at thee silk store. My couin and I were able to bargain down the price and got them to throw in 2 free cushions capable of becoming a small quilt and 2 free silk pillow cases each.

You are my hero!

I was wondering how I was going to carry 6 silk comforters around for almost 2 weeks because I thought that I would be buying then in Hangzhou. Beijing is our last stop in China and it will be much easier to deal with them just for the flight home - especially if they will vacuum them for me. That will make them easier to wrap, also.

Thanks!

elaine

 

[yoohoo]

I know you stated that you did not like to shop on the tours. However, buying while in a tour group you will at least insure that you will not be cheated. When buying by yourself, you need to be careful that the item is not fake or made with inferior material. Not to say it will not happen with a tour, but the chance of it happening is much less.

Since someone mentioned Suzhou, there a silk factory where they make comforters. Also in Suzhou there is a famous garden.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

I know you stated that you did not like to shop on the tours. However, buying while in a tour group you will at least insure that you will not be cheated. When buying by yourself, you need to be careful that the item is not fake or made with inferior material. Not to say it will not happen with a tour, but the chance of it happening is much less.

Since someone mentioned Suzhou, there a silk factory where they make comforters. Also in Suzhou there is a famous garden.

This seems counter-intuitive to me. I always thought that the tour groups probably sent you to the inferior places because the inferior places would need to pay for the privilege of an influx of customers?

I will need to look up Suzhou.

elaine

 

[yoohoo]

In the tours that we went on, they always took us to the better quality shops. They want people with money. If you can afford a tour, you have money. Also the tour companies do not want bad feedback. We usually join a Chinese speaking tour, and we ask around as to who gives the better tours. We used the same tour company a number of times over the years. Also you will not always get the best deal through a shop pushed by the tour company. We got lucky on the rug that we got. They rejected our final offer, but chased us onto the bus and accepted it. We watched the staff pack the rug into a suitcase, which came home as part of our checked baggage.

By the way the garden in Suzhou is called Garden of the Master of the Nets. It does get lost in the translation.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

In the tours that we went on, they always took us to the better quality shops. They want people with money. If you can afford a tour, you have money. Also the tour companies do not want bad feedback. We usually join a Chinese speaking tour, and we ask around as to who gives the better tours. We used the same tour company a number of times over the years. Also you will not always get the best deal through a shop pushed by the tour company. We got lucky on the rug that we got. They rejected our final offer, but chased us onto the bus and accepted it. We watched the staff pack the rug into a suitcase, which came home as part of our checked baggage.

By the way the garden in Suzhou is called Garden of the Master of the Nets. It does get lost in the translation.

Do you think that this strategy would work as well with an English speaking tour group?

What city is Suzhou near?

elaine

 

[lily28]

Elaine, Suzhou is 11/2 hour from Shanghai by bus. You can do a 1 day tour. Tour companies usually take us to designated tourism shops. tour guides do get a commission. I hate the fact that even in these shops, I have to bargain. The exception might be the silk comforters; I think they are set in price. However, the silk duvet, you can bargain.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Getting my visa

Today I took my visa application to a visa processing service. For anyone that is interested in going to China, it is important to know that the visa process may take many days and is relatively expensive.

To get my visa within a week, I paid $160 to the service. Some of that wll go to China, some goes to the service. Not a big deal, but it is important to know.

The shocking thing for me is the stringency of the application. Every box must be answered - even if the question is asked once, if there is more than one box, it is not sufficient to put n/a in the first box. Every box must be answered.

In addition to a thoroughly completed visa application and the money, they will also need a passport photo and your passport.

I am glad the application has been turned in. Now I am just waiting.

Lily - I have looked at our itinarary and Suzhou will just be impossible for us.

elaine

 

[davhu1]

Elaine, My suggestions:

Day 1 Arrive Shanghai

Day 2 Shanghai - Bund, Nanking Road, Yu Garden, Shanghai Old Street (Chinese style buildings. Lighted at night, so stay till night time. Catch the Shanghai Acrobatic Show if not staying till night time.

Day 2 Train to Hangzhou (about 1.5 hours), shop at silk market, enjoy West Lake, take boat ride on lake.
Shop for small item only. Like others said, buy your blanket in your last city, Beijing. The luggage weight for domestic flights are less, I think 40 pounds.

You do not need two days in Hangzhou.

Day 3 Suzhou - Humble Administrator’s Garden, Hanshan Temple, Cruise the Grand Canal.

Day 4 return to Shanghai, flight to Xi'an. Staying Sofitel Rejnmin Square (We stayed there in May. Very nice. Try the breakfast buffet.) If you get in early, go see Shaanxi History Museum, Big Wild Goose Pagoda and/or walk the Old City wall. Try the dumpling banquet and see the Tang Dynasty Show.

Day 5 - Terra Cotta Warriors, Ming Tombs, and Hua Qin Hot Springs. Try the Shaanxi hot pot for dinner tonight.

Day 6 - Flight to Beijing - staying Raffles Hotel
Lama Temple

Day 7 - Tian'anmen Square, Forbidden City, Hutongs, Niujie Ox Street, Beihai Park.

Day 8 - Mutianyu Great Wall, Ming Tombs, Temple of Heaven. Peking Duck Dinner.

Day 9 – Summer Place, Olympic Stadium. How about the Legend of Kung Fu Show?

Day 10 –Panjiayuan Market, 798 Art District, Silk Market, Qianmen Street (buildings styles from the late Qing Dyanasty)

Day 11 depart for Tokyo


Enjoy your trip. We did a 21-day trip to Hong Kong and China back in May. 14-day tour and one week on our own. I am still trying to loose the 10+ lbs I gained.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Some parts of this trip are connected to Ian's business meetings and that is why Suzhou is impossible.

As a matter of fact, after booking my flight to Shanghai, Ian's customer in Hangzhou requested that they meet a day earlier.

As a result, I will now be going directly from the Pudong Airport to the train station and I will not see any of Shanghai - disappointing.

I will fly for 17 hours, go through customs which I have estimated will take one hour. I added another hour for possible delays. And another hour for the trip to the train station. I have hired a car and driver to take me from the airport to the train station. And the driver is purchasing the train tickets in advance for me.

I will travel by train, arriving late evening in Hangzhou and I will meet Ian at the hotel in Hangzhou - the hotel that his company booked him into, Shangri-La. The next 2 nights, we will be staying at the Dragon Hotel. The two hotels appear to be fairly close together and I will be responsible for moving our luggage between hotels.

I am not anticipating being able to do anything the first day of my arrival because I will be traveling the entire day.

After traveling for what will amount to 3 days by the time that i get checked into the hotel. I doubt that I will be ready to tour on the second day that I am in China, either. Luckily, West Lake and one of the prettiest gardens is right by the hotel - so I will be able to enjoy it while transporting the luggage between hotels.

I am interested in a few of the "shows" - Chinese opera is of most interest. Then the acrobats. I am not much of a martial arts fan - would I still enjoy the Kung Fu show?

elaine

 

[lily28]

Elaine. If you use ff miles to book the ticket, you should be able to change it without penalty if you fly united or American airline. You might find Chinese opera to be a little boring. Even I have no idea what they are singing about sometimes. The kung fu show in Beijing is ok. Arobat how is better. There is a Tang dynasty musical with dinner in Xian you might find it more entertaining.

 

[glypnirsgirl]

Elaine. If you use ff miles to book the ticket, you should be able to change it without penalty if you fly united or American airline. You might find Chinese opera to be a little boring. Even I have no idea what they are singing about sometimes. The kung fu show in Beijing is ok. Arobat how is better. There is a Tang dynasty musical with dinner in Xian you might find it more entertaining.

Thanks for these recommendatins Lily. Ihad never heard of the musical in Xi'an.

Ian left yesterday for the first few weeks of his trip.

He was totally psyched from the flight. He used his own FF miles to book the trip so that he could fly first class.

Ian usually is totally burned out after the flight - but not this time. He was so happy that he talked to me for about 45 minutes to describe everything about the flight - they provide pajamas! Who knew?

elaine