Westin St John [Master Thread] - Part 2 (June 2014 and forward)

[DavidnRobin]

$10-100K timeshares?perhaps on paper, but not in reality. Most are well below $10K on resale market (and that is being generous) - and now valueless, and will be for quite sometime.
Many owners will walk - why would they pay SA worth more than there timeshares?
Watch...


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[Cornell]

I agree ^^^ completely. The analogy is a high mileage car that you bought new and needs a major repair. At some point you aren't going to put any more $$ into it.

 

[Cornell]

I agree ^^^ completely. The analogy is a high mileage car that you bought new and needs a major repair. At some point you aren't going to put any more $$ into it.

 

[lizap]

I agree ^^^ completely. The analogy is a high mileage car that you bought new and needs a major repair. At some point you aren't going to put any more $$ into it.

Will there be an adverse impact on tourism and for how long? How much will it cost to rebuild? Will people stop paying MFs? These issues are almost certainly being discussed.

 

[cubigbird]

Maria is now a Cat 4 and rapidly strengthening. Could be a Cat 5 by the time it hits and eye looks right in line with USVI and Puerto Rico. Agree with all the above. I can't image a second Cat 4 or 5 doing any less damage to already damaged buildings and infrastructure. As I mentioned previously, what wasn't taken out by Irma will be taken out by Marie. K.O.!! There is no precedent here. Never has USVI or PR taken a direct hit of 2 severe storms (Cat 3 or higher) in the same season.

Financially I can't imagine owners sinking hefty SA money in addition to already hefty maintenance fees. If owners walk then that creates MF default which leads to much high MF than what it already has been and makes it unaffordable to pay. VSE is going to have to be careful here to not scare owners away. I would be very curious on the insurance coverage. Wouldn't it be nice if insurance covers everything?!?!

 

[okwiater]

I think the biggest concern is impact to the island residents. If they rebuild, the resort will be fine. If they (or a significant percentage) don't, it won't.

 

[lizap]

If Maria stays on its current track, looks like it may be a little south of St. John. Could take out St. Croix, which is the staging area for much of the relief efforts on St. Thomas and St. John. So incredibly sad..

 

[vistana101]

Storm is now Cat 5...can't believe this is happening. So sad for all of those affected.

 

[LisaRex]

Heartbreaking photo. To think of all that vegetation gone, and yet another Cat 5 on the horizon. Where are the people going to take shelter? Mudslides are almost certain. And then we have the animals. What's left for them to eat?

 

[dioxide45]

$10-100K timeshares?perhaps on paper, but not in reality. Most are well below $10K on resale market (and that is being generous) - and now valueless, and will be for quite sometime.
Many owners will walk - why would they pay SA worth more than there timeshares?
Watch...


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I would also think the lower season and perhaps studio owners are more likely to walk before perhaps the 3BR Pool unit owners would. This could cause a huge strain on financials if there are a lot of defaults. At some point it may make sense just to sell back to Vistana and let them start from scratch.

Will there be an adverse impact on tourism and for how long? How much will it cost to rebuild? Will people stop paying MFs? These issues are almost certainly being discussed.

It took Grand Cayman seven years after Hurricane Ivan for it to reach pre-Ivan tourism levels. The devastation from Ivan in 2004 was bad, but nothing like the islands have seen this year. Even when everything is back up and running it will take years for the tourists to come back. Probably as long or longer than the Cayman Islands, seven to ten years perhaps.

 

[farsighted99]

Meh. My heart goes out to you owners in St. John. This is all so awful.

 

[tomandrobin]

Add Dominica to the list of devastated islands.

Maria is going to hurt St Croix on its way to smashing Puerto Rico. This hurricane season is historical in its damage to the islands. So many islands in one season is further complicating all rebuild efforts. Resources and manpower are being stretched awfully thin.

 

[OCsun]

I can't believe that I am thinking this but, what effect will it have on us if we do just walk away rather than continue to make the high maintenance fees and and additional SA fees. Please don't get me wrong or think ill of me. We have been WSJ Villa owners since 2003. We have a fixed week 16 pool villa and have always used it. We never took the option to use StarOptions or Points. Oh my! So many wonderful family memories! My heart is broken! We have airline tickets to take us in April or 2018.
My husband is 71 now and I am getting there quickly (our picture is ten years old). If St John takes years to come back to its beauty - I am not sure we will be physically able or want to go back to St John to many more years. I know that not paying maintenance fees can cause bad credit. At this point of our lives we don't plan on applying for loans for anything.
I am very torn and I am very, very, very sad for the people of St John and the employees of the Westin Resort.

 

[LisaRex]

I would also think the lower season and perhaps studio owners are more likely to walk before perhaps the 3BR Pool unit owners would. This could cause a huge strain on financials if there are a lot of defaults. At some point it may make sense just to sell back to Vistana and let them start from scratch.

It'll be interesting to see what VSE does. If I were a hotel/timeshare developer, the Eastern Caribbean is the last place I'd build anew, at least until I was able to gauge whether this hurricane season was a 100-year anomaly or the beginning of a new trend.

Sadly, there's a good chance that WSJ is history already. As others say, a decent percentage of owners might walk away before paying another round of MFs + a hefty SA looming on the horizon. If that happens, unless VSE is willing to subsidize the HOAs, then the deck of cards will collapse and the HOA will have no choice but to file for bankruptcy.

IF the island is spared the remainder of this hurricane season, and IF FEMA/emergency funds are available, there's still a possibility that they'll rebuild and re-open in 1-2 years. However, if the islands continue to get walloped and/or if subsidies dry up, then I don't believe that there's any hope of WSJ continuing because I doubt they would be able to find financing for such a venture, at least not while Irma is fresh in everyone's memory.

 

[LisaRex]

I can't believe that I am thinking this but, what effect will it have on us if we do just walk away rather than continue to make the high maintenance fees and and additional SA fees.

First of all, I feel for you as well as the people who rely on your tourism dollars.

If I were you, I'd exercise my SOs as soon as possible to book another resort in the network. Or I'd even consider depositing my 2018 week into II now. Why not? It should have good pull in II. And that will buy you some time to get more clarity on what the recovery plan is.

I assume that there will be an SA, but who knows for certain? Perhaps emergency aid will become available that will help mitigate the cost. Or perhaps the developer will pony up some cash. Or perhaps VSE will offer displaced owners some inducement for paying an SA, such as a free Getaway or 2.

No, I'd wait and see what happens before I made any decision. Worst case scenario, WSJ will declare bankruptcy, which will be the equivalent of walking away minus any hit to your credit (or guilt at exacerbating any already bad problem). Best case, you'll discover a new vacation destination for a year or two in exchange for your MFs. Aruba, Phoenix, Hawaii....the world's a really big place.

Best of luck to you.

 

[canesfan]

I agree with LisaRex. We know nothing yet and there's no need to make a decision now. Right now my concern is for the people of the USVI. It's horrible that they are getting hit with another storm.


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[OCsun]

Your probably right LisaRex! I am getting too anxious about this because I never did anything but use it myself. I am afraid of the details in II, therefore I never even considered it. I think I needed to hear a voice of reason! Thanks, P

 

[tomandrobin]

Lets say that there is a SA on all the current owners. Would all future new sales also be required to pay the SA?

 

[ekinggill]

Lets say that there is a SA on all the current owners. Would all future new sales also be required to pay the SA?

I would expect that legally they could not exempt any owner, including the developer owned units. If someone hears otherwise, please share with the team.

 

[tomandrobin]

I would expect that legally they could not exempt any owner, including the developer owned units. If someone hears otherwise, please share with the team.

If so, it will make selling future WSJ units near impossible.

 

[duke]

You may want to consider that you still own two "assets" here. One is the proceeds from the insurance policy and two is the land value. A liquidation/distribution of these two assets may yield greater value than your ownership interest is selling for.

 

[cubigbird]

I would expect that legally they could not exempt any owner, including the developer owned units. If someone hears otherwise, please share with the team.

This is where I would expect or hope that they have adequate insurance that this doesn't / shouldn't even become an issue. STJ is in hurricane alley. Hurricanes are nothing new. Adequate insurance is not cheap but should be paramount and in the best interest of the developer and owners. Technically I could see a SA coming from having to pony up a second deductible from damage from the second storm since it's a separate peril.

 

[DavidnRobin]

In my view/opinion - only Plat+ villas in VGV will have value because of the favorable MF/SO exchange.
However, that is likely to change.

We do not go to WSJ to use the Main Resort. In fact, I do not think we have even been in the main pool since 2006. We go to WSJ to enjoy STJ - which will never be the same, and will take years to recover to some semblance of normalcy.
We have 2 weeks worth 95.7K SOs for $2400 per week (unlikely to stay steady as they have for the last 5 years) - if MFs are reasonable for 2018 (and no SA), then will use SOs for HI in 2018 most likely. If not, or large SA, we will unfortunately be moving on. I bought all of our TSs with disposable income and always prepared to walk away if necessary. Sorry, that is just the way it is. The USVI fee of $25/day ($175/week) implemented in May makes that decision easier - on top of already paying Property Taxes of $150/week. The cost of WSJ Ownership will likely become untenable for us when adding the cost of travel and transportation. I hope not, but do not see how costs will stay same unless VSE/WSJ becomes charitable which is highly unlikely. Bankruptcy is only out w/o possible foreclosure.

 

[tomandrobin]

We do not go to WSJ to use the Main Resort. In fact, I do not think we have even been in the main pool since 2006. We go to WSJ to enjoy STJ - which will never be the same, and will take years to recover to some semblance of normalcy.
We have 2 weeks worth 95.7K SOs for $2400 per week (unlikely to stay steady as they have for the last 5 years) - if MFs are reasonable for 2018 (and no SA), then will use SOs for HI in 2018 most likely. If not, or large SA, we will unfortunately be moving on. I bought all of our TSs with disposable income and always prepared to walk away if necessary. Sorry, that is just the way it is. The USVI fee of $25/day ($175/week) implemented in May makes that decision easier - on top of already paying Property Taxes of $150/week. The cost of WSJ Ownership will likely become untenable for us when adding the cost of travel and transportation. I hope not, but do not see how costs will stay same unless VSE/WSJ becomes charitable which is highly unlikely. Bankruptcy is only out w/o possible foreclosure.

Lets not forget the new "sin" tax on alcohol/beer and increased custom fees for BVI excursions. And since the airline consolidation, an almost doubling of airfare.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Lets not forget the new "sin" tax on alcohol/beer and increased custom fees for BVI excursions. And since the airline consolidation, an almost doubling of airfare.

Yes - the total travel cost is already tough. We are so very glad we had a great 11 years visiting STJ.


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