VIP - Is it worth it?

[ronparise]

My argument is that whether we use VIP points or secondary market points the condos are the same. and whatever you can do with your mon

Exactly right!!
I don't care how others spend their money either.

I don't tell resale buyers that they are dumb or have no common sense because I don't they are. To each their own. I'm sure some of you drive vehicles that cost over $40,000 while I'm driving an old ford worth $5,000 but I don't tell you your stupid or have no common sense. I don't get cutting others down for how they spend their own money

I dont care how anyone spends their money but if asked...Is this a good financial decision? I gotta say no.. Just like my decision to spend $60000 on a yacht was a bad financial decision, and my decision to buy a $35000 car was a bad financial decision. I can make lots of arguments for those purchases. but if I was to argue i spent my money wisely, Id have to say no.. and it was stupid financial decision

 

[Braindead]

My argument is that whether we use VIP points or secondary market points the condos are the same. and whatever you can do with your mon


I dont care how anyone spends their money but if asked...Is this a good financial decision? I gotta say no.. Just like my decision to spend $60000 on a yacht was a bad financial decision, and my decision to buy a $35000 car was a bad financial decision. I can make lots of arguments for those purchases. but if I was to argue i spent my money wisely, Id have to say no.. and it was stupid financial decision

Ron as far as I know you haven't called others dumb - stupid- or lacking common sense. I wasn't talking about you. You express your opinion without degrading others. I applaud you for not going there.

Everyone should express their opinions. You just don't need insult others while doing so. Ron you don't do that

 

[Silverdollar]

Really.. you better make it about "the money".

Take your $100,000 in cash .. if you have it in cash. But if you take out ANY TYPE or form of a loan ... add in the 15 years of interest you will pay ...

So take the $100,000 and realize that "cash" will earn money .. $3000 per year @ 3%. But take the MFs you will be paying at $5.50 per 1K of points... or another $5500 in gone money.

So now, your COST of MFs is $5500 per first year, plus $3000 in lost interest (on the $100,000 purchased cash you spent) ... making the annual point cost $8500. Plus to pay off the loan throw $5000 into the cost to pay down the LOAN. NOW, you have spent $13500 yearly .. with rising annual MFs plus the cash to pay down the loan. Throw in 3-5% annual MFs increases...

Buy down your home MTG, fund the kids college tuition account, buy 2nd hand cars and fund your retirement account starting from your first job.

Research deeper.. my vacation home built in 1977, costs me about $300 a month today. Had a 15 year mtg...long since paid off. Yes, I like timeshares .. but I rather not be 75+ yo and having 3 strangers living with me in a single room and bath ... eating what is on my tray between the kitchens' fixed hours of service.

I spent far less than the 100k you mentioned to become VIP Platinum. A little over a decade ago, I made the smallest purchase of developer points I could for $15k and connected it with my FSV week and two PIC weeks to become VIP Gold. Then, a few years later, I made a very small purchase (64k) of developer points (this small amount points is unheard of IMO) for $11k, and bought two TS resales worth 500k points from Wyndham during that same transaction that were eligible toward VIP status for $20k.

For anyone that may not be aware, there are four Wyndham resorts that offer resales that qualify toward VIP status, that can be used like any other Club Wyndham Plus points, but you have to make a small purchase first. Usually the smallest package is 105k developer points. But, you may be able to catch them at just the right time and purchase less developer points. Then, they will show you a list of resales to choose from. I ended up purchasing UDI points at a location with the lowest MFs. Then, some time later, I made another small Wyn purchase which allowed me to bring all of my points into Club Wyndham Access (CWA) where I now have ARP at @70 Wyndham resorts, along with being VIP Platinum.

As I was making these decisions, I knew nothing about TUG. So, I didn't have the knowledge that has been shared on this site. However, I feel like I did a pretty good job; all things considered, getting the best deals I could at the time. I have been with Wyndham (formerly Fairfield) for 34 years and believe I have gotten my money's worth. And, I trust that my adult children/grandchildren will enjoy it long after I'm gone.

 

[Silverdollar]

VIP can be had a various cost. I don't think it was ever worth it at $100,000+. I think its still worth it if you can inherit a gold or platinum account or if you already sunk the cash and are paying MF's only at this point. Obviously if you don't like the resorts, don't like vacationing or can't vacation and don't want to figure out how to at least break even then it isn't even worth owning already paid for deeds/contracts.
I think most think that having a platinum account is valuable or at least more valuable than a standard account. The question is at what cost is it worth paying to obtain platinum. I think the answer for most Tuggers who are interested in Wyndham that number would be between $5,000 and $40,00 with much more interest at the lower end. I can't see anyone here with a good grasp of the Wyndham system thinking it is worth over $40,000 to obtain platinum given the current website, benefits, and potential changes in the future.

You mentioned that you didn't think it worth over $40k to obtain platinum given the current website, benefits and potential changes in the future. Do you think resales purchased outside Wyn might also be restricted at some point? Of course, nothing is guaranteed, but it would seem to me that developer points would be more secure than points bought off Ebay. Just saying.

 

[tschwa2]

You mentioned that you didn't think it worth over $40k to obtain platinum given the current website, benefits and potential changes in the future. Do you think resales purchased outside Wyn might also be restricted at some point? Of course, nothing is guaranteed, but it would seem to me that developer points would be more secure than points bought off Ebay. Just saying.

What kind of restrictions are you talking about? I don't think resale points will be restricted to use as home resort only- if that's your question. I certainly can see Wyndham restricting resale points from being used with current VIP status in the future. The only real restriction I could see being added to resale is increasing the transfer fee perhaps even to levels where buying and selling resale becomes unreasonable and wyndham could restrict ovation to only developer purchase and/or require a fee (and it could be high) to take back a resale contract or deed. This would effect retail owners as well because it would eliminate the possibility to sell or transfer a retailed purchased week (let's say in the case of divorce or financial crisis) and would make ovation the only feasible option.

I do think it is possible Wyndham could restrict CWA resale to allow exchanges only within CWA (but if they do so they probably would voluntarily grandfather current owners). I do think it is possible that Wyndham could bring new resorts into the system with a clause that they revert to home use only upon resale. I do not think they could restructure the original fairfield trust to revert to deeded use only upon resale and even if they could they would not/ could not retro it for current resale owners at those resorts. So no at this point buying off ebay in my opinion is just as secure in its current usage as purchasing anything direct.

 

[ronparise]

Not tachwa. But let me take a shot at that

Points are symbolic of ownership. We own a fractional share of real property and we assign our rights to use that property to the club. In exchange we get points to use as currency that we can use to make reservations at the other resorts in the club

Points are points just like money is money. When I buy groceries the cashier dosent care whether I inherited the money or worked a job to earn it or whether it's part of my retirement benefit. And when I spend my points, the club dosent care where I got them

There are, as we know, extra benefits that come with developer purchased points and those benefits can change. But when used to make reservations at club properties, points are points

 

[JohnPaul]

Isn't there something wrong with the model when the sellers work very hard to make the thing they sold you lose value? That if I want to sell it it has little value.

 

[tschwa2]

Isn't there something wrong with the model when the sellers work very hard to make the thing they sold you lose value? That if I want to sell it it has little value.

There is something wrong with that model but no more so than selling a product that can only be sold retail with the regular use of high pressure and a lot of deception about the implied benefits and cost savings.

 

[Ty1on]

Isn't there something wrong with the model when the sellers work very hard to make the thing they sold you lose value? That if I want to sell it it has little value.

There is a long line of marks outside their doors that haven't found this out yet.

 

[ronparise]

Isn't there something wrong with the model when the sellers work very hard to make the thing they sold you lose value? That if I want to sell it it has little value.

Wyndham isn't working to make their product worth less on The secondary market. It's worth what it's worth. Wyndham can't change that

Value of the underlying real estate, fair market value of contracts (recent eBay sales) value as a rental income vehicle all show this stuff is worth about 10% of what Wyndham sells it for

The question isn't "why are resale prices so low" the better question is "how does Wyndham keep their prices so high" that's the number that's out of wack

They are able to take condos worth about $300000 and sell them for $2 million

Good work if you can get it

 

[bnoble]

Some of that premium is warranted. If sign a 3-month lease on a rental property, your per-month rent is going to be higher than if you sign a 12-month lease. So too with timeshares: you are buying a piece of a condo, not the whole thing, so you should expect to pay *some* premium.

But, always remember: timeshare is a product that is sold and not bought. The people doing the selling are very very good at what they do. They do it all day every day. The people who do the buying are very inexperienced. The math flows from there.

 

[ronparise]

Some of that premium is warranted. If sign a 3-month lease on a rental property, your per-month rent is going to be higher than if you sign a 12-month lease. So too with timeshares: you are buying a piece of a condo, not the whole thing, so you should expect to pay *some* premium.

But, always remember: timeshare is a product that is sold and not bought. The people doing the selling are very very good at what they do. They do it all day every day. The people who do the buying are very inexperienced. The math flows from there.

I dont question that some premium is warranted and maybe $200/1000 points is the right price. But as you say the product has to be sold and 60% of the sale price is marketing and commissions and other expenses needed to move a lead to prospect to customer and another 25% is profit. Most secondary market buyers are buyers (ie they dont have to be sold) and most secondary sellers dont expect a profit... So the price is the price..

I think the number one determinant of secondary market prices is maintenance fees. If the fees I need to pay for a wyndham vacation are more than the rent for a comparable vacation condo, than my timeshare is worthless. ... and thats pretty much where we are.

 

[Silverdollar]

What kind of restrictions are you talking about? I don't think resale points will be restricted to use as home resort only- if that's your question. I certainly can see Wyndham restricting resale points from being used with current VIP status in the future. The only real restriction I could see being added to resale is increasing the transfer fee perhaps even to levels where buying and selling resale becomes unreasonable and wyndham could restrict ovation to only developer purchase and/or require a fee (and it could be high) to take back a resale contract or deed. This would effect retail owners as well because it would eliminate the possibility to sell or transfer a retailed purchased week (let's say in the case of divorce or financial crisis) and would make ovation the only feasible option.

I do think it is possible Wyndham could restrict CWA resale to allow exchanges only within CWA (but if they do so they probably would voluntarily grandfather current owners). I do think it is possible that Wyndham could bring new resorts into the system with a clause that they revert to home use only upon resale. I do not think they could restructure the original fairfield trust to revert to deeded use only upon resale and even if they could they would not/ could not retro it for current resale owners at those resorts. So no at this point buying off ebay in my opinion is just as secure in its current usage as purchasing anything direct.

I don't know what form the restriction might take. Maybe Wyn would tag resale owners with a special code and withhold inventory. I have no evidence of that, but in a separate thread today, it was mentioned by a Tug member that they thought inventory was being withheld at Grand Desert. No one knows if it was a glitch with system or done intentionally. If this can be done across the system, could it also be done selectively with a certain group of people? Apparently, Wyn has already assigned codes to certain owners such as VIP members because they have access to inventory within the discount window that others can't access. The same is true for CWA owners who can book inventory 13 months in advance at @70 resorts. So, it would seem they could just as easily assign a code to those who purchase on the secondary market and withhold inventory from them, if they so choose.

 

[Avislo]

Coding of a lot of the re-sale contracts predates the new system both the web site and recent rule changes, it goes way way back. As to different owner types seeing different inventory, depends, I have heard it different ways. Some if not most believe a Wyndham Point is a Wyndham Point at the 10 month period.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Isn't there something wrong with the model when the sellers work very hard to make the thing they sold you lose value? That if I want to sell it it has little value.

Car mfg bring out new models every year . Your 2017 vehicle, sitting in your garage - will lose (additional) value when the 2018's come out .
Braindead's $ 5000 Ford will be worth $4000 soon - but it will drive just as well .

< If he can convince Ron P. to pay him $35,000 for it - it will still be worth $ 5000 / and we will call him a sales weasel >

 

[Braindead]

For sale 2002 Ford Taurus $35,000.00
Runs great!

Att. Ron P.
It's Maroon maybe your favorite color!

 

[ronparise]

For sale 2002 Ford Taurus $35,000.00
Runs great!

Att. Ron P.
It's Maroon maybe your favorite color!

I recently made three stupid purchases, a 5 yo Ford for $25000, and a new Honda for $35000, (its my new favorite color (baby poop brown) and a 35 yo yacht for $55000. Im done for a while, although I am looking at a bigger boat...so I expect to make more stupid financial decisions before I die. And yet i dont consider myself to be a stupid person. Finances wasnt the only consideration when I made these decisions

the point Ive been trying to make is that if money is an important consideration, buying a timeshare from the developer, when you know about the secondary market, is stupid, . And making any decision without considering alternatives, is also stupid, (in my opinion) But like with my cars and boat, money may not be the only consideration...

 

[Silverdollar]

I recently made three stupid purchases, a 5 yo Ford for $25000, and a new Honda for $35000, (its my new favorite color (baby poop brown) and a 35 yo yacht for $55000. Im done for a while, although I am looking at a bigger boat...so I expect to make more stupid financial decisions before I die. And yet i dont consider myself to be a stupid person. Finances wasnt the only consideration when I made these decisions

the point Ive been trying to make is that if money is an important consideration, buying a timeshare from the developer, when you know about the secondary market, is stupid, . And making any decision without considering alternatives, is also stupid, (in my opinion) But like with my cars and boat, money may not be the only consideration...

"Stupid is as stupid does"

 

[Silverdollar]

Sorry, Ron. No offense. I just couldn't help myself . . . kinda like buying those developer points.