Villa Preferred Access - exactly how bad is the buy?

[Abigail Sheen]

I visited Villa Del Palmar Cancun last month. As part of discounted all-inclusive stay, I had to attend the presentation. I ended up buying. It is my intention to vacation with my family (two young kids, and want to do maybe a week of more "spendy" vacation each year, until they go to college and disappear... about 12 years later). But I admit it was an impulsive buy.

I was offered 1100 points for about US$15K (30 years). I simply computed that with the maintenance fees of $478/year (the sales rep said the fees has not increased for the last 8 years... is this bullshit?), I would end up paying about $30K or so for a week of resort lodging for the next 30 years, which is about $150/night for staying at Villa properties (or equivalent if exchanging on Interval International (II)).

Our past vacations, including this one that just blew by, we have been living in economical lodging (e.g. stayed at Tulum for $50/night, at Coba for $90/night, at Valladolid for $90/night, all for 2 adults 2 child). I just felt like treating family better so kids can enjoy resort with multiple swimming pools, beachfront, etc. and $150/night seems fair.

You can see how I am trying to rationalize myself.

But now I have found TUG. It's of course way past the cooling period for me to rescind, since I didn't want to do research during my travel. By the time I got back to California after finishing a few more nights at Villa Del Palmar property and then visiting Maya land (Valladolid/Coba/Tulum) the cooling period is over anyway.

Sales person told us we can "at the worst case", let them resell our club membership (they frown on the word "timeshare" saying this is a "vacation club" which is very different) and we might make 30+% loss on what we paid for membership... but we could also resell on our own for better price. Sales person also mentioned the II "getaways" which are so excellent that his wife "makes money" by selling the getaways on AirBnB, although it cannot be done in a big way (since the contract says the membership shouldn't be bought as a way to "make money"). I haven't even started looking into Interval International. Sales person said my family will be able to enjoy all the business-class transit lounges at airports for free with the II Elite status, etc., which sounded attractive to my spouse. There's probably more. I now feel a lot of this can probably either exaggerated or plain untrue.

Just wondering if anyone can tell me how bad of a deal I got into. I now read (in TUG) that it is probably useless to try to sell my membership (probably won't recoup 60+% of what I paid, as was suggested as "worst case" scenario by the salesperson), right?

It seems like the best I can do at this point is: 1. try to use and enjoy the membership, 2. hope that II exchange actually works (with $174 fee for each exchange, as they said), 3. hope that maintenance fees either don't go up or only goes up a little in the next 30 years, 4. when we get too old or for some reason unable to use the membership anymore, just give it back to Villa (UVC) and cut the losses on the yearly maintenance fees. Even the best case scenario feels a bit sad. Really wish I didn't buy (even talked my spouse into it).

Or is there anything else I can do? Certainly many things were said in the presentation that are probably lies, but it's not on writing, so I guess there's no way to claim misrepresentation to Profeco and argue out of the contract.

Give me to me straight. I would like to know the depth of my stupidity in this case. I don't think we even negotiated the membership fee well (US$15K for 1100 points).

 

[silentg]

Recind if possible, join TUG, read classified ads, try renting, then buy where you want to go, last thing , don't go to anymore sales presentations.
Silentg

 

[LannyPC]

Since you are way past the rescission period, there are a couple of recommendations. First, try using what you bought since you own it. Just consider it a very expensive purchase.

Don't try to sell it. It is probably worth about $1 or less on the resale market which leads me to this very stern warning. Now that you have shown yourself to be a gullible person buying this product, you will start getting phone calls from scammers claiming they can sell or rent out your timeshare (er, uh, club membership) for thousands and thousands of dollars. They will somewhere along the line tell you that you have to pay some sort of fee or tax to get the deal completed.

The other warning is against these so-called "rescue" or "relief" outfits that claim they can supposedly cancel your agreement or get you out of it along with cancelling your mortgage. They will usually ask for an upfront fee that may or may not accomplish anything for you. If you want to "cancel" anything, for Mexican timeshares, oops, club memberships, sometimes you may be able to do so by just quitting payments. Check your contract.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

I visited Villa Del Palmar Cancun last month. As part of discounted all-inclusive stay, I had to attend the presentation. I ended up buying. It is my intention to vacation with my family (two young kids, and want to do maybe a week of more "spendy" vacation each year, until they go to college and disappear... about 12 years later). But I admit it was an impulsive buy.

I was offered 1100 points for about US$15K (30 years). I simply computed that with the maintenance fees of $478/year (the sales rep said the fees has not increased for the last 8 years... is this bullshit?), I would end up paying about $30K or so for a week of resort lodging for the next 30 years, which is about $150/night for staying at Villa properties (or equivalent if exchanging on Interval International

But now I have found TUG.

Give me to me straight. I would like to know the depth of my stupidity in this case. I don't think we even negotiated the membership fee well (US$15K for 1100 points).

******
Dear Abigail ,
The Mexican Forum has some very good Villa threads . A TUG member - Beach Bar Bob - among others has posted a lot about how to best use etc . I would suggest spending some time reading & if you have questions you could " TUG conversation" him or other owners privately . Villa is a TS system with quality resorts & is well respected as a Mexican resort destination . It is also not mandatory AI - all inclusive - which gives you more options & potentially lower cost vacations if you do some of your own cooking./ grocery shopping .

I assume you can afford the 15K . There is a TUG poll from a few years ago - that half of all TUG members who responded bought their (first) timeshare from the developer for "retail"
and ended up happy using it to have better vacations. Point of the story - don't beat yourself up over doing something that was about family time .

There is a post somewhere on TUG by a member who said - " he wished he had bought earlier & paid full price " - Reason - all the family time missed with his kids etc -when he was a workaholic and never took vacations " The money he could always get more of - the time missed is gone forever ( I am recalling from memory )

TUG is Timeshare Users Group & is a great place to learn how to use what you own .

PS - We paid 16K for Mayan Palace (Vidanta) 10 years ago . I am glad we did - We can afford the $ 700 a week . The 16K is sunk money & in 2006 - it was the new car we did not buy .
We use it every year in Feb - when it is cold in Canada & sunny and warm in Mexico .

Those future vacations with your kids are priceless .

****
PS - If you want to read about a "bad" buy - read the - Beware of Vallarta Gardens - thread in the Mexican Forum .

You paid retail ( like many) for a well run Mexican resort group / Vallarta Gardens is a scam , with some buildings to make it look legit .

.

 

[easyrider]

You want to search " beach.bar.bob " in the above search box. I doubt that 1100 points is going to work out in the long run unless you like studio units. Overall, the Villa properties are some of my favorites in Mexico. Last I looked, I could not find any deals on resale contracts for older premiere or gold memberships at the Villa Resorts. It is a pretty nice resort system and the properties are not too big and not too small but just right.

I rarely trade my VDP's because the trade value for Mexican resorts is kind of low unless your trading into Mexico. Why trade into Mexico when you can usually buy an extra vacation from the exchange companies. So trading isn't the best thing to do, especially with a Mexican studio unit.

One nice thing about points are you can go to most or all of the resorts. My membership doesn't include Loreto anymore.

Bill

 

[Abigail Sheen]

Thank you everyone. I guess we'll just have to use the points as best we can. I'm worried the sales pitch had so much misinformation (including about trying out for a year, and if it doesn't work out, resell it or have them resell it usually at 30% loss) that I could be discovering more and more over time how bad the deal is. But time will tell, as I try to use it. I'm reading the posts in TUG by beach.bar.bob, good to have some information here.

easyrider, if you are trading to get Loreto, then isn't the cost of your week at Loreto amounting to: 1. your initial membership fee to join (divided by 30, for 30 years) whatever you had paid, 2. your yearly maintenance fee which covers that week, 3. Interval International membership fee for that year (which you needed to accomplish the exchange), 4. the exchange fee of US$174 for the week? After all that's added up, my question is... would it have been cheaper to have just gone to any website (or Costco even sells some VDP stays) and purchased the week directly for Loreto? Just trying to study how purchasing a timeshare actually saves money... I see VDP Loreto room for $208/night (for Deluxe/studio) for August for instance.

I was told my first year of II has been paid. But come 11 months later, I will be prompted if I want to pay the annual dues for II or not. Since it sounds like VDP trade value is low, does that mean it is hard for me to exchange (a week for a week) against the 6000+ properties in II (as the sales pitch mentions)? I bought this expecting to visit all over the world, not just pay $30K to be able to spend a week (lodging only) in Mexico. So it seems I spent all this money for just access to luxury vacationing in Mexico alone?

How much is II fees now? Sales pitch said if I pay 5 years up-front, I can pay $500 to get 5 years (so it's only $100/year). They said II gives me all the getaways (at first they said only 2 getaways each year, but at signing, they said I actually managed to get unlimited). For anyone paying II annual dues here, how much is it really to keep a year of II? Is the $100/year also misinformation?

They said II also gives my family access to airport lounges for free. Is that true?

Finally, for people that do own VPA, I am being charged $478/year for my 1100 points now. They said maintenance fees has not gone up in the past 8 years. If you have owned for multiple years, is this true, or at least close to being true? Or would I expect the fees to double after 5 years (say)? What was your experience?

Thanks again. At least it does seem I bought something legit (even if sales pitch oversells some lies), rather than buying into a scam. For that I'm thankful.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Dear Abigail ,
Yes - you bought something legit
so think about enjoying vacations at the various Villa properties in Mexico with your family .

You will find as you read TUG that (some ) members have multiple timeshares . Some they stay at , some are for trading etc .
Right now you are trying to figure it ALL out .

I would focus on how to best use your points at a Villa resort in 2018 - and possibly book it now - if you wish to go Jan - March 2018
Easter is April 2 2018 & ALL Mexican resorts are full the weeks either side of EasterSunday as they are Mexican National holiday weeks .

Full disclosure - we bought in 2006 - and I wasted 2007 & 2008 by paying the MF - depositing into RCI & then letting the weeks expire .( my fault for being "too busy to vacation " )
Then I started reading TUG & started figuring it all out . I am still reading and learning .

 

[travs2]

T-Dot-Traveler........your are always reading and learning and you ALWAYS give thoughtful and good advice. This is what tug is all about. Helping other timeshare owners understand the " systems" to get the most out of their purchase.

 

[easyrider]

I don't use the VDP's for trading. Currently, I have 3 one bedroom units and 1 two bedroom unit. We use these in the winter. My membership are called a premiere and were bought resale. All of the points contract will revert to premiere when sold resale.

I used Worldmark to trade into Loreto with II. The WM point cost for the trade was about $750 + housekeeping token. My II membership charged a trade fee of $179. The II membership fee covers multiple years and averages about $75 a year. If I use all of these costs for the Loreto trip it would be about $1004 or $143 a night for a one bedroom unit.

In contrast to the trade price my mf for a one bedroom VDP unit is about $600.

You would need to go to the II website to see what type of membership you want. An upgraded membership does have some airport lounge dealio. I have a regular type 5 year membership and have scored extra vacations. My Worldmark gives me the most of the upgraded preferences with II so all I need is the basic membership.

You probably need to book your trip at least 11 months out. At 10 months out the units start going fast and some of the more popular resorts, like the Arco, now seem to require booking at over a year out for winter months.

Bill

 

[Abigail Sheen]

Thanks T-Dot-Traveler and easyrider.

I did a quick experiment... pretending I wanted to go back to VDP Cancun where I had bought my timeshare... and see how much it would be for me to do so using my membership, versus not using my membership.

A simple search on VDP Cancun on ebay shows this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Villa-Del-Palmar-Cancun-2-Bedroom-Suite-May-October-6-People-/332185094901, $1050 for 7-nights 2-bedroom VDP Cancun.

I assume it will take probably twice my 1100 points (2200 points) for something like this. When I bought my VPA points, there is an optional 1100 (on top of my base 1100) that could be accessed if paying the MF on the additional 1100 points. So, $500 (my initial outlay $15K spread over 30 years), plus $478 + $478 for 2200 points of maintenance... is $1456. So, might as well buy it for less in ebay for $1050.

Not only that, going directly to VDP's website (http://www.villapalmarcancun.com/hotel-suites/deluxe-room), it seems I could get a deluxe studio for $128/night. With my VDP points, assuming it would cost 1100 points to get 7-nights in a studio, I would be paying $500 (from initial outlay) plus $478 (MF) or $978, which is more than the non-member price of $128/night * 7 nights = $896.

[EDIT: I tried booking, and for a week arbitrarily in mid-August, it was nothing near $128/night, so maybe only some select/unpopular days approach the advertised $128/night. Free breakfast included though, for the direct-order from VDP Cancun website.]

What am I missing? What exactly is my VPA membership doing for me, or why does it seem cheaper to travel without my timeshare, even to my "home" resort?

 

[Quimby4]

Please make sure you fully educate yourself on your Villa Group benefits.

My friend owns VG so I have called to try to better understand the program for her. She carries her points over so she can book a 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom. I believe most summers there are BOGO promos where you can pay the maint fee for a studio and get a 2nd studio free. You can also get a bonus weeks at many locations for the same dates that you book(2nd maint fee)...I have heard VDP Flamingos in PV is great. I have stayed at Arco and Palmar in Cabo. For now prob best to try to use you points in the Villas Group in Cancun, PV and Cabo. Lots of great choices. Trading into Interval is no guarantee and difficult if you are looking to travel around school schedules.

Sales guy misled you, selling Interval Getaways or trades is against the terms and conditions and will get your membership cancelled quick.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Thanks T-Dot-Traveler and easyrider.

I did a quick experiment... pretending I wanted to go back to VDP Cancun where I had bought my timeshare...

[EDIT: I tried booking, and for a week arbitrarily in mid-August, it was nothing near $128/night, so maybe only some select/unpopular days approach the advertised $128/night. Free breakfast included though, for the direct-order from VDP Cancun website.]

What am I missing? What exactly is my VPA membership doing for me, or why does it seem cheaper to travel without my timeshare, even to my "home" resort?

*******

TRY getting Presidents Week 2018 < Friday Feb 16- 23 - (Mon Feb 19) > If that is the week your children are off school .( VDP - Cancun , may already be full for that week in 2018) / if so -don't get frustrated - just work towards another week in 2018 (or 2019 Presidents Week )

1) Mexican Resort Companies (tend) to build capacity for peak snowbird season . It helps that they are building ( and staffing ) in pesos and collecting MF in USD .
- because of this, most resorts in Mexico have all kinds of "deals"for May - December . - because they have extra capacity compared to the winter / snowbird season .
-therefore (IMO) your points are best used trying for a peak(winter) season reservation .

The advice from Quimby4 about point rollover and combining to get a 1 or 2 bedroom ( essentially using and booking every other year) may make sense or the BOGO option.
Easyrider / Bill is essentially telling you what I said above - peak winter fills quickly ,and you have to book well ahead / ie this is the best use value of your points .


2) (some other) Mexican resorts- make their profit doing AI ( mandatory all inclusive) - since your children won't be drinking for a few years - it may not be the best value for your family . So be glad you bought one that is not Mandatory AI .

As you can see - TUG is the best place to learn .
I would focus on planning and booking via your points your next ( winter school break ) family vacation .


*****
Full disclosure
My first use of our Mayan Palace TS in 2010- I called in early Jan to use in early February . We went to the Sea Garden in Mazatlan - AND had a great vacation with our 2 sons who were in their early 20's at the time .

the reason it was SG Maz - it was the only Mayan / Vidanta property that had availability when I called .
What I remember is enjoying the vacation / and (now) how little TS -how to best use - knowledge I had at the time .

NOW - I know to get Puerto Vallarta in Feb I have to book much earlier .

 

[rpennisi]

I have both RCI and II. I don't believe II has even half of the 6000 resorts you were told they had, maybe 2000+. Also, I have the basic II and I always wait for their 2 years for 1 paid offer in the mail. So, wait to see if you get that in the mail before upping your membership. II is always trying to get me to upgrade, I have not done it. I never heard of the upgraded membership getting you airport business class lounges. They do have some discounts for getaways, etc with the upgraded membership, but not airport lounges.

If you do decide to bank your points in II, you can do lots of searches online to see what it will get you. Unfortunately, in the recent past, they now charge an extra fee if you chose a bigger unit than you own $99 per upgrade. At least this is how it works with a deposited week that I use in II.

A good value that I use II for is depositing my Vegas week and getting Vidanta's Grand Luxxe. Again, in the past, I could get a two bedroom GL for my one bedroom Vegas week. Now, I get a one bedroom Grand Luxxe (but no complaints bec it's still a great trade).

T-Dot has given you good advice. Use what you own, book early as possible and enjoy. No All Inclusive will save you a lot. You don't have to continue your II one year membership if you use what you bought, especially if you decide to vacation using your doubled points every other year. You can always rejoin later on...and wait to get 2 for 1 offers.

As a matter of comparison in making II trades...Vegas mf $900 + II membership $89/2 + trade fee $174...compared to Grand Luxxe mf around $2000.

 

[beach.bar.bob]

Abigail -

Welcome to the UVC team...

Wow...a UVC/Villa Group post with so much activity...I'm impressed

You've already received lots of good pointers from everyone that's posted above... (Hi Bill!)

As has been mentioned, I've posted tons of info on UVC memberships in the past and info on my memberships (I have three) and how I acquired them (One retail, two resale). I won't repost that stuff yet again. Since 2009 we've made well over 20 trips to UVC resorts totaling well over 30 weeks. We've visited all of the UVC resorts except Loreto. I'm also serving my last year of a three year membership on the UVC Member Advisory Committee or MAC Board. We are a group that represents and presents members' issue to UVC's management team. As a result, I've had a very close look at how UVC manages their business. The short story is ... I'm impressed. They really listen and care. Don't fret ...these are quality resorts (IMHO...especially VDP Cancun, Villa del Arco, VDP Loreto and VDP Flamingos plus the new resorts under development) with a management team that really tries to deliver a quality experience. Plus, you bought in Cancun, thus you are in Club Caribe which means you have access to the Garza Blanca resorts...which are a step up in quality from the VDP's. Most of the rest of us bought in PV or Cabo and have memberships in UVC versus Club Caribe...which do not include access to Garza Blanca. (It's a long story of difficulties between the developer partners...that will hopefully be resolved soon!)
But enough of that...

Couple of observations:
1) Since you now own it...figure out what you own and how to leverage it to enable your family to gain the most enjoyment out of it. Our family has had a blast! The time to determine if it was a "good deal" is past. Like many of us you likely bought before you really took the time to "figure it out". Welcome to the club. You spent $15k. I spent $36k for my first membership (2900 points) back in 2009. Think of how I felt when I started digging into it! My response was to double down a couple of times in the resale market. Unfortunately, that option has pretty much dried up as the economy has improved.

2) You didn't get "ripped off". The going rate at UVC is $15-18 per point for new memberships. So you did pretty good! For me, the biggest problem you have is that you only have 1100 points. That doesn't buy anything I'd be interested in You can't even book a studio unit in the best resorts during the winter months. Of course, your life situation, family needs and desires are different than mine.

3) Regarding Interval International and trading your UVC points...I just renewed my II membership in April for $612 for a five year Gold membership. Gold is an upgrade over the basic membership. To tell you the truth, I have no idea what Gold gets me over basic. I just re-upped what I had. Over the years I have been able to make effective trades using the optional preferred time points...For example, a week at Marriott Grand Chateau in Vegas, a week at Marriott Frenchman's Reef in St. Thomas, USVI, a week at Marriott Palm Springs and a week at the Westin Lagunamar in Cancun. I thought these were quality trades...but all were shoulder season for the resorts in question, not peak season. Also, we have booked several Getaways, including Grand Bay Estates in St John, USVI (this alone was worth a five year membership ... IMHO), back into VDP Flamingos for way less than using one of my own weeks, and a few others. I'm traveling this week so I don't have access to my "stuff" at home...not sure about the airport lounge thing. It's not a prime benefit to me as I've traveled so much for work over the years that I have all kinds of lifetime memberships and benefits that I can't even use any more. But... my recollection is that II gains you "access" to the lounges...and that and another $20-25 per person gains you "admission" to the clubs. It's a throw-in benefit...not a key benefit.

4) Maintenance fees...I don't think they were actually lying to you on this one. My maintenance fees are not much higher than they were back in 2009. Without digging through all my records at home I can't verify that this is exactly correct. I think there was a small, something like 2-3% increase two or three years ago. But that is the only one I recall since I bought in 2009 - maybe another one early on. They do a pretty good job in this area. Of course, pull up a 10 year chart of the US dollar versus the peso...been pretty good for us. If/When this relationship turns against us I would think we could expect some increases. It's inevitable. But, it's not been runaway increases nor have there been any special assessments...just saw a TUG thread recently regarding special assessments at Casa Dorado which is just down the beach from the UVC Cabo properties.

5) Be careful when doing your price comparisons between renting and owning. Your examples were comparing rental costs versus ownership fees during the summer months/August. As T-Dot points out, that's not the best comparison. If you bought planning to visit in the summer months, then perhaps you made a poor decision...It'll be hard to make those numbers make sense. On the other hand, I live in Minnesota. Personally, I can't imagine ever going to Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, or Loreto in the summer months when I could be in Minnesota. It's absolutely gorgeous at home then. BUT...Minnesota weather absolutely sucks in Jan/Feb/March. That's why we own in Mexico and why we've made so many trips to Mexico the past 10 years. A person absolutely needs to get away that time of year. Based on the number of people we've met from Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Minnesota and Michigan during our trips, we're not the only ones that think this way. Try comparing the rental versus ownership costs in Feb/March at Villa del Arco in Cabo (my favorite and by far the most difficult UVC resort to book). We usually rent two bedroom units which are 2900 points with a $1250 maintenance fee. If you try to rent off the Villa Group site you're looking at around $5,000 per week. If you shop around, you might find a rental on TUG, eBay or Redweek those weeks for around $2500-2800...but no guarantee there will be one available. I track our usage and fees in a spreadsheet and try to figure out what I might have rented the same weeks for...based on my reckonin', after nine years we're past breakeven on our 30 year memberships (but...due to our abilty to leverage the resale market back in 2009/2010 my average cost per point is only $3.50). As T-Dot says, it's near impossible to find availability at Villa del Arco for Presidents Day week, most spring break weeks in March or the weeks surrounding Easter. Ownership gives you the ability to chose among a number of quality resorts and make your reservations (if you plan ahead) up to 24 months ahead of time - locking in the hard to get weeks. But, again, if you want to go during the summer or other slow times the advantages tip away from ownership.

FWIW

Safe travels.

BBB

 

[Abigail Sheen]

Thanks Quimby4, T-Dot-Traveller, rpennisi, and the often-mentioned BBB!

Seems very clear that I need to spend more time to try using my VPA points before assuming too much.

My past vacations have been few, and frugal (except for things like honeymoon, which was in a nice Marriott in Kauai, Hawaii, and we did also attend a presentation there, but at that time, it was just way too expensive, above $20K for small package, never mind if it was a fantastic deal or not). We do road-trips, camping, bunking at friends', etc. If we travel further by air, then it is car rental, and cheaper hotels as seen in tripadvisor/kayak/booking/expedia, etc. Our lodging averages well-under $100/night for where-ever we had needed to stay a night in the past. We live in California, there's no unbearable winter here.

Even this trip, while we had fun in VDP Cancun, and basked in its luxury, the remainder of the trip with those small hotels (a couple under $100/night, and one under $50/night) were not any worse... those small hotels were quaint, clean, felt more personable, and in much better locations (VDP Cancun is a bit of an island to itself), and allowed us to visit places (ruins, cenotes, etc.). Our kids of course wished those small hotels had swimming pool, etc., but they have not been spoiled (yet), so for them VDP was "exceptional", rather than the norm. Even after VDP purchase, we believe we will continue that kind of more-exploratory frugal traveling, but add a "do-nothing have-fun use-swimming-pools enjoy-luxury" component to our until-now-mostly-frugal travels. We don't usually stay many nights in one lodging, but rather lodging is just something to do to pass a night on-the-way to whereever we were trying to explore, so for rest of Cancun travel, those small hotels were just for 1-night.

So, VDP purchase is not like "getting a package deal" that would reduce our existing travel expense. It probably will fundamentally change how often we vacation, and the quality of lodging for our vacation, and how many nights we stay in one spot. I suppose if we had already (prior to VDP purchase) been paying full price to go to VDP properties, then it would be no alteration of vacationing habit, and simply a cost reduction, and everything would be clear cut. But then we did buy VDP after agreeing that our family needed to travel/vacation more, and something high-quality that we can remember (i.e. create memories).

The sales guy did say I can spend potentially more than 11,000 points in one-shot, if I bank in 5 years' worth, and borrow from the next 5 years in the future, but that means one crazy luxurious stay in 10 years or so. I assume this true, right? Maybe I'll find out that 1100 points is too little, and end up having to travel every-other-year to Mexico instead, which will be fine... because while I did enjoy Mexico, I feel like the world is large, and there are other places to visit than just Mexico (and I'm learning that exchanging on II using VDP might not work out too well, but will find out when I tear into II details). Or maybe I might purchase more points over time, once we have done more luxury vacationing and feel it is worth the money. We don't want to spoil ourselves (or kids) too much. Have this "people are starving elsewhere in the world" kinda-feeling.

We were last in the presentation, and almost walked away. In the end, the bigger hurdle to overcome was whether we wanted to vacation luxuriously, in resorts, or just continue our more frugal explorations. The sales guy did lower the points to 1100 from a lot more, seeing that we probably need to "ease" into this kind of travel. Once we feel it is for us, we can upgrade or buy more points later.

I'll reread all your posts in detail, and call Resortcom to try to reserve something for 2018 soon, once some time frees up... been meaning to write earlier after reading the first couple responses, but have been busy. Thanks for all the points, I might have more questions later on some of them... and thanks for all the validation that we bought into something legit, at pretty good retail price (minus crazy bargain resale deals which are now rarer), and it's just time to enjoy the points maximally. You've all been amazing!

 

[rpennisi]

Just a quick update on II and lounges....

Airport Lounge Membership (Platinum only)
This gets you a free standard membership in Priority Pass, which lets you access more than 800 airline lounges in over 400 different cities.

The membership is free, but the lounge visits aren't. You'll need to pay a $27 fee per person for each visit.

 

[Abigail Sheen]

Just an update that yesterday evening, I found time to look into booking for 2018.

In case it helps others... here's some story of how a newbie tries to use VPA points for first time...

I bought at VDP Cancun, so it looks like I joined "Club Caribe - Cancun" (others are like UVC, VPA Club, UVC Resorts - Loreto).

Resortcom, on the phone, told me to go to myuvci.com, under "Club Info", choose "Club Caribe - Cancun", then look at "Points Values" (actually, there's a "Points Values Odd/Even" --- what is this?), and that has a chart of the seasons (Holiday, Winter, or Summer, from most expensive to least expensive).

For kids time off school, i.e. President's day week, or spring break, both are in "Winter" season.

I am targeting Villa Del Arco. I have only been to Mexico once, last month, to Cancun. I feel Cabo is a good choice for 2nd destination (or else PV). And I hear all the good things about Arco, so that's what I'm trying.

A studio unit is currently 125 points/night for studio on a weekday (Mon-Fri), but a lot more expensive for Saturday and Sunday (350 and 225 respectively). I feel 5 nights is enough vacation in Cabo, so I booked for Mon-Sat, and that only comes to 625 (125*5) points, which is well under my 1100 points/year. Looks like 1100 points is enough if not trying to live too lavishly. Later, when kids get bigger, maybe a studio won't work anymore, and then I will burn more points for 1-bedroom. It was twice the points for 1-bedroom if on weekday in winter (i.e. 250 points/night instead of 125 points/night).

I pulled another family in for another studio unit. I will probably charge them maintenance fee on 625 points or something. I guess that's one way to travel cheaper than using a vacation club membership -- is to be friends to vacation club owners and rent with them or travel with them. But it will be a blast for the kids for both families (get playmates), and it feels good to share. I'll just make sure they don't go through a timeshare presentation ordeal, and make sure they read TUG if so inclined to attend/purchase. So, that's 625 * 2 = 1250 points, more than my 1100 points. In my contract, I am allowed to use up-to an extra 1100 points each year if I pay maintenance on those extra points. Here's the catch. They are charging 65 cents/point for maintenance fee. But I'm paying $478 for 1100 points in maintenance fee (44 cents, not 65 cents). So I feel a bit cheated again, the sales pitch didn't say the maintenance fee per point is different for those bonus points (versus my purchased points). So, I made use of bonus 150 points, and that is 0.65 * 150 = $97.50. There's also a charge for the guest, $35 (1-time, not per night). Actually for the 150 points shortage, I was also given the option to pre-pay next year's maintenance fee ($478) and then use up some of next year's points... that part sounds completely like described in sales pitch, so I'm glad certain points all work out as expected.

This turned out to be for spring break (which for my school district, as well as my friend's kids school district) of 2018, April 9-14. President's week for 2018 is Feb 19-24.

Here's the big question I have... and it's possibly off-topic but... is Feb a lot better than April for Mexico?

Sorry to jump around, but for newbies, I should mention that at the sales pitch, the sales guy made it sound like we will be "elite" or have greater priority over others, and some big percentage of units are reserved for owners, blah blah, so we should expect to be able to book your stay and expect vacancy even if it is like a month or two in advance. Well, Feb 2018 is a whole 8 months away, and it is already waitlist for Villa del Arco, and I'm a paid member, so I guess this part of the sales pitch is also misleading.

Now, where I live, I don't suffer tremendous cold in February (that would make Feb a lot more desirable as escape to Mexico), I really wonder if anyone can tell me what I lose for going April instead of Feb.

Point being: I could possibly get Feb if I change destination (e.g. go to PV instead of Cabo) or change resort (do VDP Cabo instead of the Villa del Arco). So maybe giving up Arco and going somewhere else (VDP Cabo or try VDP Flamingo PV, or try Loreto, etc) to gun for Feb is a real possibility.

I did snag the last two studios for April 9-14, 2018 for VDArco. Feb is on waitlist. Resortcom suggests they might be able to keep me on VDA waitlist for Feb if I wanted, and if it does clear up, then they can move my reservation from April to Feb... but that was before I added a second studio... I feel the chances of enough Feb cancellations (and short enough waitlist) seems so low for 2 studios that it might not be worth the trouble... but maybe there's no harm trying anyway.

What I've read is, if I'm into whale watch, it's in the winter, so Feb might be better than April for this? (Not very sure I will do whale watch or not, depends on how much they charge I guess). When is turtle release for 2018? I read somewhere it happened in May one year, so maybe April has a better chance. I also saw in April 2011, the low-tide was so low that some people walked into Land's End (El Arco), which is rare but really unique, but maybe this has nothing to do with April in particular (just luck of tides/timing). Is the weather a lot hotter in April than February? Is February a bit too cold? I was in VDP Cancun in early May this year (May 2 arrival), and while it was hot, that heat made spending time at the swimming pools really fun, and Gran Cenote a lot more bearable, and even then, the underground rivers of XCaret were a bit too cold for my 6 year old (she didn't finish the whole river, and exited halfway, shivering). So while most of the time, we feel it was hotter than we liked (esp. when visiting Mayan ruins), other times we were glad it was hot. How about mosquitoes? A lot of mosquitoes (which doesn't bother me as much, but my older daughter has always attracted mosquito bites and sensitive to the bites) in Cancun in May, but is there a different between Feb vs April for Cabo for mosquitoes?

What about spring break issue? I saw a website (https://www.studentcity.com/when-is-my-spring-break) that suggests most college spring break is over by my kids' spring break (April 9-14), so maybe it's not too bad. I am concerned if there are too much big kids in the pools/beaches, half drunk, rowdy, partying too hard, etc... my kids are 7 and 9 by then, a bit too young to mix in that, might get pushed around, might see some bad behavior, etc. I've never experienced peak spring break in Mexico, but I see some pretty rowdy pictures online that makes me just a bit worried.

I'm guessing in Feb, it will also be crowded, but not with spring breakers, but with people that live in colder areas escaping the cold. That might be a better crowd for my young kids than wild spring breakers?

Point is, I do have the option to change destination (maybe try VDP Flamingo for Feb 2019). Everyone's vacation style is different, but any insights/opinions welcome. I need to cancel today (if I want no fees). Cancellation within 24 hours is by courtesy. Anything after is $100 per cancellation per unit... (or $200 if within 30 days of check-in) except members do get 1 free cancellation per year.

 

[rpennisi]

Cabo can be somewhat cool at night, as it was this past January for us. But the daytime temps were fine. So, I am sure February in Cabo would be good. Not many bugs in Cabo for us (I am a magnet) in January or in the summer. It is a desert climate.
PV in January has always had excellent weather, so again February would probably be as well. Bugs in "winter" Mexico are scarce, plentiful in the wetter warmer summertime. Not sure about April, but probably not bad.
I don't think you can wrong with either February or April in Cabo or PV, NV.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Cabo - It is a desert climate.
PV in January has always had excellent weather, so again February would probably be as well. Bugs in "winter" Mexico are scarce, plentiful in the wetter warmer summertime. Not sure about April, but probably not bad.
I don't think you can wrong with either February or April in Cabo or PV, NV.

Puerto Vallarta in April is (IMO) just as nice weather as Feb / March

One advantage of April in PV is that daylight savings time starts then in Mexico ( April 1 in 2018 / Mexico still uses the "old" start & finish dates )and
PV is far west in Central Time Zone (they are the same time as Mexico City )

April 1 2018 - Sunrise 7:54 pm - Sunset 8:15 pm - this means it isn't fully dark until almost 9;30 pm / and mostly dark until almost 7 am - perfect( IMO) when you are on vacation .

**Cabo gets warmer into mid- May & June - but continues to have very little rainfall
while June in PV has more rain ( but mostly at night I have been told / but it does result in increased daytime humidity ) < ** I have read this - we have not yet been to Cabo / have not been in PV later than 2nd or 3rd week in April >

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Abigail ,
I posted above without reading all of your post .

Cabo is on Mountain time & Mexican Daylight Savings Time start is April 1 in 2018.

Since you are in California the time zone transition for kids may be easier in Cabo
& Alaska Airlines etc has lots of flights .

My instinct would be do April / 5 days- with your friends & their kids at Arco & enjoy the pools .

*****
Puerto Vallarta is great - but 7 & 9 year olds will want to be in the pool all day / PV has restaurants & places to explore - which they will love doing in a few years . ( Villa de Palmer PV )
Club Caribe will also get you Garza Blanca PV - (slightly south of town)- but my sense is that GB is less of a kid style place .

Neuvo Vallarta where VDP Flamingos is located will likely be more similar to Arco

I will let Villa owners fill in the nuances .

*****
PS - congratulations on figuring this all out .
Your post today really shows a good understanding of " how to use "

Odd / Even - some Timeshares sell (or have sold ) Odd Year or Even Year use .
You only pay every other year & can only use it that way . If you are looking at resale listings it may be abbreviated as EOY -even (or odd ).
There are also ones that you pay every year ( half of MF ) but can only use every even or odd year .

 

[rpennisi]

Puerto Vallarta in April is (IMO) just as nice weather as Feb / March

One advantage of April in PV is that daylight savings time starts then in Mexico ( April 1 in 2018 / Mexico still uses the "old" start & finish dates )and
PV is far west in Central Time Zone (they are the same time as Mexico City )

April 1 2018 - Sunrise 7:54 pm - Sunset 8:15 pm - this means it isn't fully dark until almost 9;30 pm / and mostly dark until almost 7 am - perfect( IMO) when you are on vacation .

**Cabo gets warmer into mid- May & June - but continues to have very little rainfall
while June in PV has more rain ( but mostly at night I have been told / but it does result in increased daytime humidity ) < ** I have read this - we have not yet been to Cabo / have not been in PV later than 2nd or 3rd week in April >

BTW Tom, we were pleasantly surprised this past January that it remained light so late in Cabo. I am guessing they are even farther west in that time zone.

 

[Rumm25]

I visited Villa Del Palmar Cancun last month. As part of discounted all-inclusive stay, I had to attend the presentation. I ended up buying. It is my intention to vacation with my family (two young kids, and want to do maybe a week of more "spendy" vacation each year, until they go to college and disappear... about 12 years later). But I admit it was an impulsive buy.

I was offered 1100 points for about US$15K (30 years). I simply computed that with the maintenance fees of $478/year (the sales rep said the fees has not increased for the last 8 years... is this bullshit?), I would end up paying about $30K or so for a week of resort lodging for the next 30 years, which is about $150/night for staying at Villa properties (or equivalent if exchanging on Interval International (II)).

Our past vacations, including this one that just blew by, we have been living in economical lodging (e.g. stayed at Tulum for $50/night, at Coba for $90/night, at Valladolid for $90/night, all for 2 adults 2 child). I just felt like treating family better so kids can enjoy resort with multiple swimming pools, beachfront, etc. and $150/night seems fair.

You can see how I am trying to rationalize myself.

But now I have found TUG. It's of course way past the cooling period for me to rescind, since I didn't want to do research during my travel. By the time I got back to California after finishing a few more nights at Villa Del Palmar property and then visiting Maya land (Valladolid/Coba/Tulum) the cooling period is over anyway.

Sales person told us we can "at the worst case", let them resell our club membership (they frown on the word "timeshare" saying this is a "vacation club" which is very different) and we might make 30+% loss on what we paid for membership... but we could also resell on our own for better price. Sales person also mentioned the II "getaways" which are so excellent that his wife "makes money" by selling the getaways on AirBnB, although it cannot be done in a big way (since the contract says the membership shouldn't be bought as a way to "make money"). I haven't even started looking into Interval International. Sales person said my family will be able to enjoy all the business-class transit lounges at airports for free with the II Elite status, etc., which sounded attractive to my spouse. There's probably more. I now feel a lot of this can probably either exaggerated or plain untrue.

Just wondering if anyone can tell me how bad of a deal I got into. I now read (in TUG) that it is probably useless to try to sell my membership (probably won't recoup 60+% of what I paid, as was suggested as "worst case" scenario by the salesperson), right?

It seems like the best I can do at this point is: 1. try to use and enjoy the membership, 2. hope that II exchange actually works (with $174 fee for each exchange, as they said), 3. hope that maintenance fees either don't go up or only goes up a little in the next 30 years, 4. when we get too old or for some reason unable to use the membership anymore, just give it back to Villa (UVC) and cut the losses on the yearly maintenance fees. Even the best case scenario feels a bit sad. Really wish I didn't buy (even talked my spouse into it).

Or is there anything else I can do? Certainly many things were said in the presentation that are probably lies, but it's not on writing, so I guess there's no way to claim misrepresentation to Profeco and argue out of the contract.

Give me to me straight. I would like to know the depth of my stupidity in this case. I don't think we even negotiated the membership fee well (US$15K for 1100 points).

Hello Abigail I to am a member of villa group
I thought the same thing as you I paid way to much. I started out with gold membership eon after the first visit I said to myself I need to take my children here so guess what I had to upgrade to do that . I figured there is no price tag on family time what ever it cost I was willing to do it just to be with family not only my children.Now I am elite member with 7700 points and I am able to go twice a year for 2 weeks I also use uvc bogo if I don't have enough room for everyone.i will never look back and think it has cost to much like I said there is no cost when it comes to family if you need any info just email me
Happy travels Duncan Turnbull

 

[tartanwood]

Without going into all of our history with UVC, I can say that we eventually ended up enjoying some "lemondade" from what seemed to be a real "lemon".

After our initial purchase of a summer week from the developer in 2003, we felt manipulated, deceived and stupid. We were so resentful that we did not go back to Mexico for 6 years (gave one II exchange to a relative and rented one week to a friend and then just banked the rest of our weeks). We decided to go once before trying to dump our bad investment. Instead, we ended up upgrading from a Gold summer week to Villa Preferred Access points. That give us more flexibility and made it possible for us to actually use it for trips in the winter or for stays ranging from a few days to a couple of weeks.

Was this a wise purchase in the first place? No

Have we enjoyed multiple trips to almost all of the resorts? Yes

Buying resale or renting from another owner would have made more sense financially. I try not to think about the money spent years ago and focus just on the current maintenance fees that have not jumped significantly over time.

When we purchased, there were only a few older resorts in the system (del Mar, PV and older Cabo). We were skeptical when they told us about all of their plans for future resorts. This was before Flamingos, Del Arco, Loreto and Cancun. They actually followed through and built the promised resorts in these locations. We have enjoyed them all.

With advice from TUG members, we have figured out a way to make the most of what we have.

We have not tried to use II since we switched from a floating week to VPA points. I need to go back and read some of the above comments more thoroughly, and then I may ask a few II questions of my own in another thread.

Even though you may have some regrets now, relax and let TUG members help you enjoy some "lemonade" in the coming years.

 

[Abigail Sheen]

Thanks everyone. I hope my story will evolve to be like tartanwood's story... in fact, I'm going to try my first serving of "lemonade" next week!

I'm heading to Cabo, staying at Villa del Arco, with 2 studio units (one for my family, one for another family... our kids are friends), for President's day week. I managed to get this after being on waitlist and then informed of availability (some time last year). It's really 5-nights, not a complete week.

I got several calls from Resortcom, to arrange shuttle from/to airport, and trying get me to buy all-inclusive (declined). Most recent call is asking me to attend a "member's update" meeting the second morning of my visit. I am worried about this. Is this another sales pitch? Is this "required" or optional? I'm also a bit worried about the guest family. Will they be pressured into a presentation on check-in? What kind of benefit should I negotiate/expect for attending member's update meeting, and what should my guest family negotiate/expect if they attend a sales pitch? Or is it best to just say no? I know if guest family attends a sales pitch, their breakfast will be free, but that's way too little bonus for the potential few hours gone.

I'm planning to rent a car. This will settle transport between airport/hotel. It will also allow for Walmart/Costco/Mega(La Comer)/Soriana shopping runs. It will take us to Mt. Solmar if we want to hike, or Santa Maria/Chileno beaches for snorkling, or if we want to visit Todos Santos or San Jose del Cabo nearby, plus eat at nearby local restaurants, or go downtown more easily (else it's a 35+ minute walk from VDA).

We plan to save money/time at least for breakfast (stock the mini-fridge). For lunch/dinner, it is preferred to eat out (local food preferred) on days of exploration, or else eat at VDA restaurants (food there any good?), though I've been warned by the Resortcom rep trying to sell me AI that the food portions are small and expensive at VDA (hence, it's cheaper to buy AI). AI is US$550/day for both families (4-adult/3-kid), way over budgeted for food. None of us drink.

Some more questions about VDA property if anyone knows:

1. Seems VDA swimming pools might be less interesting (for kids) than VDP (with whale slide), but only recently, I found out these two properties are separated by La Estancia... so it's further than initially thought... 10-minute walk from what I read. Any issue using VDP swimming pools/towel service if living in VDA? The answer from Resortcom is mixed, sounds more like "just do it, don't ask". Elsewhere in Tripadvisor forum, someone reminded not to bring one property's towel into a different property, as they are different and immediately obvious you come from other property. I assume it's best to walk on the beach connecting VDA/VDP to go from one to another? Supposedly there's a free shuttle that goes between the two properties... if anyone has done this, was it easier to wait/ride shuttle, or just easier to make the 10-minute(?) walk each way? Shuttle comes frequent?

2. Is La Estancia off-limits, or I can visit also? I hear for kids, it is VDP > VDA > Estancia, basically, Estancia is quiet, more for adults only... so I don't think it matters... but if it is not off-limits, then I think visiting it for a bit sounds fun, if only for curiosity/novelty, and seems like it's sitting in-between VDA and VDP anyway. Can we use the pools there in Estancia too?

3. Kids are 7, 8, and 9 year olds. 7-year old is tiny (35 lb, 1-percentile). They all love playing in water, so the swimming pools will be one attraction. Wonder if the water is too cold or not though. I'm surprised to always see the pools (at VDA) seemingly unoccupied, in the live webcam, https://www.cabovillas.com/campage.asp?id=8. Isn't it already peak winter season, why am I seeing the pools mostly empty whenever I check the live webcam... kids would prefer other families/kids also around pool and can make friends, etc. (which happened in Villa del Palmar Cancun last year early May).

4. We enjoyed the night shows at Villa del Palmar in Cancun last year. These were 9:00 p.m., dancing/music, with stage set up next to pools. Seems like anyone can watch it. But Resortcom is telling me (when trying to sell me AI) that the theme-nights for Villa del Palmar in Cabo has to be paid for (unless AI). Anyone knows if this is true?

Water-taxi to Land's End is a must I guess. To see a rock. It's a checklist item for Cabo visit (esp. first time). I wonder how it works if we want to spend a bit of time in lover's beach then? Take water-taxi to see Land's End and get dropped off at lover's beach, and then later wave-down another water-taxi to take us back (from lover's beach back to Medano beach/marina, and then walk back to VDA)?

Sports fishing seems very popular in Cabo, but none of us has done it, unsure about seasickness, and also unsure if too early for 7/8/9 year old kids (they might feel too cruel?). It's also expensive (taxes, tips, all add, and total around US$1K for the two families, on 5-hour boat ride, not yet adding the extras like drone video, etc).

One more week before travel, starting to prepare in earnest. I resolved to learn more Spanish after Cancun trip last year, but looks like that went nowhere! Try again next year.

 

[vacationtime1]

I got several calls from Resortcom, to arrange shuttle from/to airport, and trying get me to buy all-inclusive (declined). Most recent call is asking me to attend a "member's update" meeting the second morning of my visit. I am worried about this. Is this another sales pitch? Is this "required" or optional? I'm also a bit worried about the guest family. Will they be pressured into a presentation on check-in? What kind of benefit should I negotiate/expect for attending member's update meeting, and what should my guest family negotiate/expect if they attend a sales pitch? Or is it best to just say no? I know if guest family attends a sales pitch, their breakfast will be free, but that's way too little bonus for the potential few hours gone.

YES. Stay away. It is far easier to avoid the presentation than it is to avoid buying once you are there. They know you have purchased in high pressure situations and will want to get you there again. Resist.

Keep your friends away. Friends don't let friends buy timeshares -- at least retail.

And other than that, you will have a great vacation.