VC told me with high confidence that Cancel/Rebook will be eliminated in April..

[paxsarah]

Actually it was promoted by sales. And a way to sell points to resale owners.

I mean, most of the time we refer to sales as a bunch of liars. In this case, I'd still argue that it still wasn't intended as a feature, it was just a consequence of the inadequacy of Wyndham's IT systems. Sales will jump on anything to make sales.

The bigger problem is it wont solve a thing.. in fact it may make things worse, ie more rentals. If I cant get a discount my profit is cut substantially. what do you think my response will be?

If I was making 500 reservations a year at a $500 profit ($250000) and now Im reduced to just $250. Ill shift my focus to the really high value reservations and do twice as many as many of them. Or Ill get out and 10 smaller boutique operations will take my place.

Well, I guess I don't really have an opinion on whether there's a real problem and whether it can be solved. I'm not VIP, I make ARP reservations when I need to at 13 months, I get online when I need to at 10 months, and I pretty much research availability for the vacations I want to book. The most convincing thing I've seen is your suggestion is that most of what Wyndham is trying to solve is based on optics. Limiting VIP benefits to what most owners would perceive as legitimately purchased VIP points would seem to be giving them what they want, and doesn't remove any codified/written/official VIP benefits from other owners. I completely agree that there will still be the same number of points chasing a limited number of high-demand reservations. It doesn't change the number of points in the system.

 

[CO skier]

The bigger problem is it wont solve a thing.. in fact it may make things worse, ie more rentals. If I cant get a discount my profit is cut substantially. what do you think my response will be?

If I was making 500 reservations a year at a $500 profit ($250000) and now Im reduced to just $250. Ill shift my focus to the really high value reservations and do twice as many as many of them. Or Ill get out and 10 smaller boutique operations will take my place.

That is not what happened in WorldMark when a loophole was closed this time last year. More owner families are reportedly claiming reservations at 13 months. Some of those reservations must be from what were previously booked by megarenters.

Availability did not increase, rentals still happen, but somehow more owners and fewer renters are staying in WorldMark units in 2017. If something were to change the ability to cancel/rebook/upgrade 13 month reservations, the same may occur in Club Wyndham. Many rentals that are profitable using cancel/rebook/upgrade are not profitable at full fare, but there are owner families who would be happy to claim these reservations at full point costs. It is a zero sum game, so Wyndham's goal may be to influence the owner:renter occupancy ratio in favor of owner families.

 

[uscav8r]

That is not what happened in WorldMark when a loophole was closed this time last year. More owner families are reportedly claiming reservations at 13 months. Some of those reservations must be from what were previously booked by megarenters.

Availability did not increase, rentals still happen, but somehow more owners and fewer renters are staying in WorldMark units in 2017. If something were to change the ability to cancel/rebook/upgrade 13 month reservations, the same may occur in Club Wyndham. Many rentals that are profitable using cancel/rebook/upgrade are not profitable at full fare, but there are owner families who would be happy to claim these reservations at full point costs. It is a zero sum game, so Wyndham's goal may be to influence the owner:renter occupancy ratio in favor of owner families.

I could MAYBE support a cancel/rebook/upgrade restriction on ARP bookings, but not on SRP/ERP ones. The bookkeeping for this would be immensely easier to accomplish and sort out retail from resale as the credit pool never comes into play.

ARP bookings would easily be able to be tagged as upgrade eligible or not as well.

If megarenters still need the discounts to be profitable, they can fight for the discountable/upgradeable 10-month bookings, or be stuck with a lower return on ARP bookings. They can still try to rent ARP bookings, but it will be their choice to take that risk.

But let's look at the non-renter VIP. Does this hurt too much them as well? Or does this look like a reasonable compromise that is feasible (i.e., not complicated) to implement?


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[frankf3]

I think (and so does Wyndham,) the VIP discount program was designed to get heads in beds during the most unpopular times at the most unpopular resorts. The idea was to get us to use at least some of our points to reserve the junk, leaving more of the good stuff available for everyone else. It was never meant to help anyone make multiple reservations at the best times at the best resorts at a discount. But by using the cancel/rebook strategy we have been able to do just that

in the past, in Jan 1017, with 2 million 2018 points. I could make 10 mardi gras reservations for Feb 2018, Then in Dec 2017 I could cancel and rebook and generate 5 million cancelled points that had to be used by Dec 2018. I could use those cancelled points to make 5 reservations for Christmas at Bonnet Creek.(another high value reservation) then in October, I could cancel and rebook generating 500k points. that expire at the end of the year There not much that can be done with these left over points on such short notice, so they would either be used to exchange for maintenance fee dollars or be dumped into RCI

But look what I did. With only 1 million VIP eligible points I got ten high value reservation at a discount. and I got 5 more high value reservations. To be fair I should not have been able to get any discounts on these high value reservations and I should have been limited to just 10 at full price (10 reservations at 200000 points uses up all my 2 million points)

Enter the new cancellation rules: Now I can do those first 10 mardi gras reservations, cancel and rebook and the cancelled points go back to be called regular use year points and I put them in the credit pool (3 year expiration) and I make those 5 christmas reservations. I cancel and rebook them and the cancelled points go to the credit pool and I can make another two high value reservations which I cancel and rebook to generate more cancelled points into the pool which I use to make one more high value discounted reservation

So now using the cancel/rebook strategy, in conjunction with the credit pool i can use my 1 million VIP eligible points with another million non vip points to make 18 high value reservations to rent.

Is that fair? some folks would say no


Now let me tell you another strategy using the credit pool.

1)Buy contracts worth 20 million points for $40000
2) put all 3 years points into the credit pool
3) make reservations with all 60 million points and rent them out, (at an average of 100000 points each and $600 rent thats $360000)
4) pay mf for a year (about $120000)
5) lather/ rinse/ repeat

$360000 income less $40000 purchase price less $120000 mf = $200000. is that profit? or might you call it an unfair advantage?

I agree with this, there's a LOT to say about the poor implementation of functions in Wyndham's systems, but just focusing on whether cancel / rebook is valid or not, here's a simplified way to look at it.

Cancel / rebook is a work around to achieve a reservation at the discount point level, right? Was Wyndham's intent to give VIP's discounts on remaining (perhaps as Ron states sometimes "less desirable") inventory or to provide discounts to VIPs on ALL of their reservations? If the latter, why didn't Wyndham just say "if you buy up to the Platinum VIP level you get a 50% points discount on all reservations"? Cancel / rebook is an abuse of the system and of VIP benefits because it provides a benefit that was never intended. If Wyndham's intent was to provide a discount points benefit on any reservation, even high demand, why make their best customers jump through hoops to get that benefit?

Cancel / rebook can be curtailed by tagging cancelled inventory as ineligible to be booked at any discount for a certain period or by implementation of a wait list (or probably numerous other methods). I don't like the wait list, but I do think Wyndham should be clear on how their program is intended to work, then implement the system processes to manage that.

Note, I'm only a small resale points owner, no knock at all from me toward any TUG members who use the system the way it works. And I get it clearly that sales promoted cancel / rebook. Wyndham could solve this fairly easily by investing a bit more and focusing more on their systems, the problem is 100% with Wyndham and their excessive focus on sales (and lack of attention to operations and IT).

 

[ronparise]

That is not what happened in WorldMark when a loophole was closed this time last year. More owner families are reportedly claiming reservations at 13 months. Some of those reservations must be from what were previously booked by megarenters.

Availability did not increase, rentals still happen, but somehow more owners and fewer renters are staying in WorldMark units in 2017. If something were to change the ability to cancel/rebook/upgrade 13 month reservations, the same may occur in Club Wyndham. Many rentals that are profitable using cancel/rebook/upgrade are not profitable at full fare, but there are owner families who would be happy to claim these reservations at full point costs. It is a zero sum game, so Wyndham's goal may be to influence the owner:renter occupancy ratio in favor of owner families.

I think thats exactly right; The goal is to increase the number of reservations made by one group of owners over another group of owners. and to increase ratio of owners staying in units vs. non owners. but its not happening

You dont see an increase in owners vs renters, You see more availability at 13 months, but you dont know who is getting those reservations. It could be the megarenters are still getting the same number, but instead of one guy getting 10 reservations it might be that 5 guys are getting 2 each

and whether its renters or regular owners getting the reservations, they are still gone within a few minutes and most owners dont get one

In my New Orleans example the 35 reservations I used to get might be going to other owners, but Im pretty sure most of them went to other mega renters (I know half of them did)

and since the change you mentioned, we have seen the development of another strategy using the wait list to control all the 3 bedrooms at west yellowstone all summer.

 

[CO skier]

I could MAYBE support a cancel/rebook/upgrade restriction on ARP bookings, but not on SRP/ERP ones. The bookkeeping for this would be immensely easier to accomplish and sort out retail from resale as the credit pool never comes into play.

ARP bookings would easily be able to be tagged as upgrade eligible or not as well.

If megarenters still need the discounts to be profitable, they can fight for the discountable/upgradeable 10-month bookings, or be stuck with a lower return on ARP bookings. They can still try to rent ARP bookings, but it will be their choice to take that risk.

But let's look at the non-renter VIP. Does this hurt too much them as well? Or does this look like a reasonable compromise that is feasible (i.e., not complicated) to implement?


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Maybe we will know some of the answers by the end of April, or maybe the speculations will continue for years.

 

[CO skier]

I think thats exactly right; The goal is to increase the number of reservations made by one group of owners over another group of owners. and to increase ratio of owners staying in units vs. non owners. but its not happening

You dont see an increase in owners vs renters, You see more availability at 13 months, but you dont know who is getting those reservations. It could be the megarenters are still getting the same number, but instead of one guy getting 10 reservations it might be that 5 guys are getting 2 each

and whether its renters or regular owners getting the reservations, they are still gone within a few minutes and most owners dont get one

In my New Orleans example the 35 reservations I used to get might be going to other owners, but Im pretty sure most of them went to other mega renters (I know half of them did)

and since the change you mentioned, we have seen the development of another strategy using the wait list to control all the 3 bedrooms at west yellowstone all summer.

For what it is worth, this is how Wyndham is reporting the results of the change, "Tom Kumma mentioned that hold times in the call center had increased due to explanation of the new grouped reservation rules. He reported that owners are reporting more availability and there has been an overall positive reception to grouped guideline change."


So it is not all upside, and I am sure the owners, including megarenters, who are impacted by the change do not have a positive reception to the Board of Directors taking the punch bowl away.

It does represent that anything is possible when it comes to rule modifications.

I am sure that most of the owners who snagged their Hawaii reservation for 2017, after trying unsuccessfully for years, have no idea why it was possible this year. They just know things have changed for the better.

 

[uscav8r]

Maybe we will know some of the answers by the end of April, or maybe the speculations will continue for years.

Yes, this is all speculation. But at the very least, when an idea is floated, I want Wyndham to be be fully aware of the backlash to certain issues (assuming they troll these boards). Think of it as free market research.


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[CO skier]

Ues, this is all speculation. But at the very least, when an idea is floated, I want Wyndham to be be fully aware of the backlash to certain issues (assuming they troll these boards). Think of it as free market research.


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The WorldMark Grouped Reservation change was an idea out of left field.

 

[Sandi Bo]

The bigger problem is it wont solve a thing.. in fact it may make things worse, ie more rentals. If I cant get a discount my profit is cut substantially. what do you think my response will be?

If I was making 500 reservations a year at a $500 profit ($250000) and now Im reduced to just $250. Ill shift my focus to the really high value reservations and do twice as many as many of them. Or Ill get out and 10 smaller boutique operations will take my place.

But don't you need WAY more points to do so?

I would think any renter (mega or onesie-twosie) is already going after those really high value reservations (10 per account or as many points as they have available to use).

 

[uscav8r]

The WorldMark Grouped Reservation change was an idea out of left field.

But recall that how it was eventually implemented was different from how it was described when first announced. The "speculation" about how it would work as announced probably had no small part in influencing how it was implemented.


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[Jan M.]

in the past, in Jan 1017, with 2 million 2018 points. I could make 10 mardi gras reservations for Feb 2018, Then in Dec 2017 I could cancel and rebook and generate 5 million cancelled points that had to be used by Dec 2018

Ron, am I understanding this correctly? Due to Wyndham's defective IT system and their failure to accurately track and account for all the points in the system that what had been 2 million points when you cancelled and rebooked came back as 5 millions points? Was this something that happened more than once on your account or a one time fluke?

Wake up and smell the coffee here people! The only real problem is Wyndham. They have failed to maintain an accurate accounting system and have also failed to enforce their own program rules. Epically failed!

Be very careful what you wish for, you just might get it. With the exception of not allowing VIP benefits on resale deeds, anything else Wyndham does to restrict a certain group of owners will have far reaching consequences for you and every other owner. To quote Bella Wyn who consistently makes knowledgeable and astute posts, "Smoke and mirrors." If some of you think that you will actually end up benefitting from anything else they might do, then as others have said more politely than I am going to, YOU ARE SOME NEW KIND OF FOOL!

Just think about the situation that led up to some owners accounts being frozen. One of those owners just recently posted that points came back into his account that shouldn't have, again. What are the chances that this is an isolated incident and isn't still happening in other owners accounts who aren't frozen and under the microscope? In one more week it will be six months and Wyndham still can't fix the system.

What has Wyndham ever done that actually succeeded in making the situation better? Nothing or this thread wouldn't exist. And yet you are willing to trust THEM to make changes that will affect every single owner. Instead of coming up with things intended to hamstring other owners you should be demanding that Wyndham just do what they are entrusted to do in the first place, maintain an accurate accounting system and enforce the current program rules. If Wyndham can actually and finally do that, your situation would be improved as others have pointed out. Trusting Wyndham with any more changes would be about as smart as giving your 8 year old your life savings, your credit card and the money from your paycheck with no ability to dictate, restrict or have any control of him or the money, then dropping him off at Toys r Us with no supervision and expecting him to only spend the $20 grandma gave him for his birthday.

 

[ronparise]

Ron, am I understanding this correctly? Due to Wyndham's defective IT system and their failure to accurately track and account for all the points in the system that what had been 2 million points when you cancelled and rebooked came back as 5 millions points? Was this something that happened more than once on your account or a one time fluke?

Wake up and smell the coffee here people! The only real problem is Wyndham. They have failed to maintain an accurate accounting system and have also failed to enforce their own program rules. Epically failed!

Be very careful what you wish for, you just might get it. With the exception of not allowing VIP benefits on resale deeds, anything else Wyndham does to restrict a certain group of owners will have far reaching consequences for you and every other owner. To quote Bella Wyn who consistently makes knowledgeable and astute posts, "Smoke and mirrors." If some of you think that you will actually end up benefitting from anything else they might do, then as others have said more politely than I am going to, YOU ARE SOME NEW KIND OF FOOL!

Just think about the situation that led up to some owners accounts being frozen. One of those owners just recently posted that points came back into his account that shouldn't have, again. What are the chances that this is an isolated incident and isn't still happening in other owners accounts who aren't frozen and under the microscope? In one more week it will be six months and Wyndham still can't fix the system.

What has Wyndham ever done that actually succeeded in making the situation better? Nothing or this thread wouldn't exist. And yet you are willing to trust THEM to make changes that will affect every single owner. Instead of coming up with things intended to hamstring other owners you should be demanding that Wyndham just do what they are entrusted to do in the first place, maintain an accurate accounting system and enforce the current program rules. If Wyndham can actually and finally do that, your situation would be improved as others have pointed out. Trusting Wyndham with any more changes would be about as smart as giving your 8 year old your life savings, your credit card and the money from your paycheck with no ability to dictate, restrict or have any control of him or the money, then dropping him off at Toys r Us with no supervision and expecting him to only spend the $20 grandma gave him for his birthday.

no that should have been cancel and rebook and 1 million points come back , enough for 5 reservations

The point I was trying to make is that 2 million points in a platinum account could be used to make 20 high value reservations. Half of those rightfully should go to other owners. This is clearly an abuse of the system, or said another way. "...unfair advantage"

 

[raygo123]

What are you talking about, "already have done a cancel/rebook and gotten a discount"??? I cancelled one thing (booked at full fare BTW) to book a totally different place.

When did I ever say I cancelled a discounted reservation?

The credit pool does not "automatically" give anyone a discount.

Credits are not fishes and loaves. You don't "make" something out of nothing (except for when the IT system doesn't work). The top line number of credits will always be same.

And how is this any different from using regular Use Year points? I can certainly cancel one of those and make a discounted booking elsewhere. If one is "unfair," logically the other is also unfair.

If anything, the more "unfair" situation involves regular Use Year and ARP to get out in front of everyone else, which are then cancelled and rebooked. FWIW, I don't begrudge anyone with ARP their benefits.

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So you have never cancelled and re-booked? The points In your credit pool were placed in the pool as regular use year points and none of those points came back at any level of discount? Or did you receive a discount on all or most of the points in your credit pool that you used to book smugglers?

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[uscav8r]

So you have never cancelled and re-booked? The points In your credit pool were placed in the pool as regular use year points and none of those points came back at any level of discount? Or did you receive a discount on all or most of the points in your credit pool that you used to book smugglers?

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I stated very plainly the situation I just went through several posts back.

The fact that I credit pooled at all did not mean I suddenly ended up with more points than I pooled.

I don't know if you understand the credit pool or have ever used it. I have, and I'm not cheating anyone out of anything. If I credit pool 300k of RUY points, I have 300k in pool credits. It's as simple as that.

I can certainly cancel/rebook something using RUY points. I get RUY points back and I can use those however I see fit. Again, it doesn't matter whether something was booked with RUY or PC, the outcome is exactly the same. So to call out the credit pool for VIP denial is ludicrous.

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[uscav8r]

Duplicate




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[raygo123]

The subject of this thread is
VC told me with high confidence that Cancel/Rebook will be eliminated in April.

Lets assume its true. (I believe, by the way, that this is just one change of several, all designed to curtail commercial use and insure a level playing field (no unfair advantage) when it comes to making reservations

Now I want to ask the questions; why are they doing this? and will it work?.. I think not

and heres a situation that I think, makes my case

Worldmark owners can make reservations 13 months in advance of check in. and for red season must make 7 day reservation. Mardi Gras Tuesday is Feb 13 next year so today is the day to make a 7 day reservation that includes the weekend before Mardi Gras Tuesday (very popular and a great rental) and Mardi Gras Tuesday itself (also very popular)

In the past several years I have been able to make 35 of the available 63 reservations. This upsets a lot of owners and I have learned it upsets Wyndham as well. Their thinking is that if they could do something about the megarenter problem (in this case me) availability would improve

Something happened (remember Wyndham and I "have satisfactorily resolved our differences") and I made no worldmark mardi gras reservations this year

So did availability improve? No of course not. There are still only 63 available reservations. did demand go down? No there are still a lot more owners that want these reservations, among them some of my former competitors. The reservations system opened this morning at 6am pacific time and within a minute or so, everything is gone. So nothing changed

I think the same think will happen in Club Wyndham. As long as the approach is to make things more difficult or more expensive for the mega renters, they will adapt and continue to rent. And for every one that cant adapt and drops out, there will be others to take their place


So Raygo, make all the suggestions you want to change the rules, It aint gonna make a bit of difference.

Yes Ron, the amount of availability will always be the same unless more resorts are added. But, as you yourself has suggested the only way to increase availability is for wyndham to retire points, decrease demand.
That is exactly what stopping credit pool points from receiving the discount. As you have shown, you can multiply your points with cancel and rebook, and by the credit pool. This will happen to everyone. Now, 1,000,000 points turns into 500,000 points booked, and 500,000 left over. And you also as part of that first booking have 1,000,000 points worth of reservations. Now you do it again. 500,000 worth of reservations for 250,000 points and now you take the remaining 250,000 and credit pool. The following year you start with 1,250,000 points. You do the same thing, book 1,000,000 points. This time you use your credit pool points plus 250,000 regular use year points. You now have 750,000 regular use year points left. You now make 750,000 points of bookings and cancel and rebook. Then credit pool 375,000 points.

You have taken 1,000,000 points and have increased them to 1,375,000 points.

Have you taken away availability, of course not. What you have done is decrease supply by a multiple. An arithmetic progression.
Tajen to the 3rd year it starts to become geometric. You have created your own supply. Now, the credit pool points do not receive the discount. You cancel and rebook the first time, and get 500,000 back. You do it again with the remaining 500,000 points and get 250,000 points back. You can credit pool now, or book the 250,000 points again.
The following year, those credit pool points have no multiple due to the fact that you must use them at full value. So that the 125,000 points that would have been created do not exist. Supply has been reduced by 50%. More the following year.
Under the current situation it's no wonder you credit pool all your points, why not for cancel and rebook you are still receiving VIP benifits on all your points! I bet you don't credit pool those Marti GRA points.

It's a red herring, you loose credit pool VIP, that will burst even your bubble.

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[uscav8r]

Heck why not just get rid of VIP benefits for Regular Use Year points too. I mean, it's practically the same thing as getting rid of them for the credit pool. Instead of an extra two years of life, RUY have ARP.

Better yet, raygo123, maybe Wyndham should kill all VIP benefits. That's what your logic amounts to, so why hold back?


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[ronparise]

Yes Ron, the amount of availability will always be the same unless more resorts are added. But, as you yourself has suggested the only way to increase availability is for wyndham to retire points, decrease demand.
That is exactly what stopping credit pool points from receiving the discount. As you have shown, you can multiply your points with cancel and rebook, and by the credit pool. This will happen to everyone. Now, 1,000,000 points turns into 500,000 points booked, and 500,000 left over. And you also as part of that first booking have 1,000,000 points worth of reservations. Now you do it again. 500,000 worth of reservations for 250,000 points and now you take the remaining 250,000 and credit pool. The following year you start with 1,250,000 points. You do the same thing, book 1,000,000 points. This time you use your credit pool points plus 250,000 regular use year points. You now have 750,000 regular use year points left. You now make 750,000 points of bookings and cancel and rebook. Then credit pool 375,000 points.

You have taken 1,000,000 points and have increased them to 1,375,000 points.

Have you taken away availability, of course not. What you have done is decrease supply by a multiple. An arithmetic progression.
Tajen to the 3rd year it starts to become geometric. You have created your own supply. Now, the credit pool points do not receive the discount. You cancel and rebook the first time, and get 500,000 back. You do it again with the remaining 500,000 points and get 250,000 points back. You can credit pool now, or book the 250,000 points again.
The following year, those credit pool points have no multiple due to the fact that you must use them at full value. So that the 125,000 points that would have been created do not exist. Supply has been reduced by 50%. More the following year.
Under the current situation it's no wonder you credit pool all your points, why not for cancel and rebook you are still receiving VIP benifits on all your points! I bet you don't credit pool those Marti GRA points.

It's a red herring, you loose credit pool VIP, that will burst even your bubble.

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what you are describing is cancel and rebook, not the credit pool. and you have it wrong.. I cant create points and there is no increase in points, a million points always stays a million points. If I use 1 million points to book and cancel and rebook over and over again until all the points are in discounted high value reservations. and then I cancel all those reservations I still only have a million points... You cant grow points doing this... and the credit pool dosent manufacture points either.

The unfair advantage is that in doing this i can get high value reservations at a discount. or said another way, I can get twice the high value reservations Im entitled to. Discounts are supposed to be available only for the junk.

 

[raygo123]

I stated very plainly the situation I just went through several posts back.

The fact that I credit pooled at all did not mean I suddenly ended up with more points than I pooled.

I don't know if you understand the credit pool or have ever used it. I have, and I'm not cheating anyone out of anything. If I credit pool 300k of RUY points, I have 300k in pool credits. It's as simple as that.

I can certainly cancel/rebook something using RUY points. I get RUY points back and I can use those however I see fit. Again, it doesn't matter whether something was booked with RUY or PC, the outcome is exactly the same. So to call out the credit pool for VIP denial is ludicrous.

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Oh, I understand it, it seems you're the one that doesn't. If you started with 1,000,000 points and only did one reservation for 250,000 points, and cancelled and re-booked it, you end up with an additional 125,000 points. So you credit pool them. Now here comes smugglers. You ,now, can book a 250,000 point reservation with that 125,000 points. You have just reduced the supply. And have increased your point value to 1,250,000 points.

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[raygo123]

what you are describing is cancel and rebook, not the credit pool. and you have it wrong.. I cant create points and there is no increase in points, a million points always stays a million points. If I use 1 million points to book and cancel and rebook over and over again until all the points are in discounted high value reservations. and then I cancel all those reservations I still only have a million points... You cant grow points doing this... and the credit pool dosent manufacture points either.

The unfair advantage is that in doing this i can get high value reservations at a discount. or said another way, I can get twice the high value reservations Im entitled to. Discounts are supposed to be available only for the junk.

You know as well as I do that it may not create points, but gives you the ability to use them more that once or twice. You say yourself you can turn 1,000,000 points into 5 or 10 reservations worth say 20,000,000 points. If not creating point, certainly creating reservations and reducing supply.

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[ronparise]

Raygo, My strategy was not dependent on VIP or the discounts that come with it, so no..you arent gonna burst my bubble by restricting VIP benefits.

All I need is a source for cheap points. So whats gonna take me out is Ovation. Have you noticed there are only two pages of Wyndham listings on ebay and most of them are either fixed weeks or Worldmark

 

[Jan M.]

It's a red herring, you loose credit pool VIP, that will burst even your bubble.

Do you understand that what you are suggesting is just not going to happen? Forget about justifying it with the math or any other arguments. They are a pointless waste of time and you delude yourself by engaging in them because they are irrelevant.

Wyndham is in the business of selling. VIP benefits are the carrot to get people to buy and keep buying more from them. If the VIP benefits become so restricted that their worth is drastically diminished then there is no incentive for people like me and many others, who were in many people's opinion dumb or uninformed enough to buy developer points, to buy from Wyndham. Do you know of any company that knowingly and deliberately puts themselves in a position of making it significantly harder to sell their product? A product that costs them no small amount of money to hold in inventory? With a board of directors and stockholders to whom they are accountable?

Do you remember reading in the other posts how many lawsuits Wyndham is currently involved in and how that compares to other timeshare companies? And that doesn't include people like Ron who are or were in negotiations with them that didn't reach the lawsuit stage. Do you seriously think even for a minute that if Wyndham starts placing too many restrictions and further reduces the VIP benefits that the vast majority of VIP owners won't join a lawsuit? And furthermore do you not understand that Wyndham is very well aware of that? The person whose job title is general counsel is one of their executives.

 

[uscav8r]

Oh, I understand it, it seems you're the one that doesn't. ... And have increased your point value to 1,250,000 points.

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You know as well as I do that it may not create points, ...

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You chide me for not understanding, and yet the last phrase of your previous post and the first sentence of the next are completely CONTRADICTORY.

Either VIPs are manufacturing points/credits or they are not. You cannot argue it both ways.

The only thing I don't understand is your supposed logic and your obsession with the credit pool.


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[uscav8r]

Oh, I understand it, it seems you're the one that doesn't. If you started with 1,000,000 points and only did one reservation for 250,000 points, and cancelled and re-booked it, you end up with an additional 125,000 points. So you credit pool them. Now here comes smugglers. You ,now, can book a 250,000 point reservation with that 125,000 points. You have just reduced the supply. And have increased your point value to 1,250,000 points.

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And another thing, soapbox guy, I did not cancel rebook. I cancelled (a fully booked resort no less) and used those points/credits elsewhere (a wide open resort), independent of the booking I cancelled. My cancellation did not get me any extra points than what I booked for. I then had available credits to then book what was legitimately offer d at a discount. This is no different than if I never made the original booking.

Chew on that, cuz you've been missing out on it for the entire day.


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