VC told me with high confidence that Cancel/Rebook will be eliminated in April..

[henley1]

Today a VC told me that with the rollout of Voyager for which she is receiving training in March for a planned April rollout, that the Cancel Rebook will be eliminated via a waiting list. I've heard many guesses from VC's over the years, but she sounded certain and specific. She stated it as fact, not speculation. Has any one else heard this?

 

[nicemann]

That would be one solution for all the problems they seem to be trying to fix. Hopefully they will "thaw" all the other unfrozen accounts way before then.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Since I rarely utilize this feature, it is not a big deal for me. But a league of sales people will have to sing a different tune, and a lot of people who bought expecting that feature will be pissed. It will impact a lot of renters who count on most of their profit by this approach.

Of course if there is NO wait list then, it will work fine. At the 60 day mark it should still work fine.

Interesting to see how Wait list rules will spill out.

 

[nicemann]

Since I rarely utilize this feature, it is not a big deal for me. But a league of sales people will have to sing a different tune, and a lot of people who bought expecting that feature will be pissed. It will impact a lot of renters who count on most of their profit by this approach.

Of course if there is NO wait list then, it will work fine. At the 60 day mark it should still work fine.

Interesting to see how Wait list rules will spill out.

I am sure they will talk it up just don't won't tell the new buyers how long it takes for it to come back into the system and that there could be a big wait list already for the property.

 

[ilya]

Today a VC told me that with the rollout of Voyager for which she is receiving training in March for a planned April rollout, that the Cancel Rebook will be eliminated via a waiting list. I've heard many guesses from VC's over the years, but she sounded certain and specific. She stated it as fact, not speculation. Has any one else heard this?

So, will they reimburse us developer owners who purchases for that reason?

 

[dioxide45]

So, will they reimburse use developer owners who purchases for that reason?

I suspect such a feature wasn't promised in the signed and legal documents?

 

[John_and_Val]

No. Just the slimy sales person talking. It is legal.....you just have to take rule "A" and then take rule "B" to make your own rule "C". And if they take away cancel and rebook, "store" bought VIP is not worth much. I know this would not make resale owners happy but wouldn't it make sense (since Wyndham changes the rules all the time, anyway) to restrict VIP benefits to Wyndham purchased points only? They should make it worth the money. I mean the majority of problems (according to Wyndham) comes from the "mega-renter". The "mega-renter" probably owns a majority of points via resale. Eliminating resale, eliminates mega-renters. Hell, they could feasibly use the "cancel and rebook" as a true benefit for VIP members. So a win - win for all. The person who feels they need to purchase through Wyndham gets, what they feel, is a good "perk" for the price and the resale owner buys at a major discount to use the points for reservations. Want to rent your points? You need to purchase enough resale to make it worth your time and money.......
Doesn't that make sense?????

 

[wjappraise]

No. Just the slimy sales person talking. It is legal.....you just have to take rule "A" and then take rule "B" to make your own rule "C". And if they take away cancel and rebook, "store" bought VIP is not worth much. I know this would not make resale owners happy but wouldn't it make sense (since Wyndham changes the rules all the time, anyway) to restrict VIP benefits to Wyndham purchased points only? They should make it worth the money. I mean the majority of problems (according to Wyndham) comes from the "mega-renter". The "mega-renter" probably owns a majority of points via resale. Eliminating resale, eliminates mega-renters. Hell, they could feasibly use the "cancel and rebook" as a true benefit for VIP members. So a win - win for all. The person who feels they need to purchase through Wyndham gets, what they feel, is a good "perk" for the price and the resale owner buys at a major discount to use the points for reservations. Want to rent your points? You need to purchase enough resale to make it worth your time and money.......
Doesn't that make sense?????

You're right. It does make sense. Which is why Wyndham won't do it.



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[John_and_Val]

Yeah, instead they are going to piss off every VIP member that was sold on this "amazing benefit"..........Going to be interesting on what is really going to happen.

 

[CO skier]

Going back to the future with this thread may save a lot of re-typing the same discussion.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/cancel-rebook-process-for-vip-discounts-to-end.207218/

 

[ronparise]

At the last annual meeting Geoff Richards promised that Voyager would be up and running by the next meeting... So April makes sense. At that last meeting I asked Geoff about a wait list... his answer was not this year. I wonder if the suspensions mess is speeding up their plan.

Heres what I learned in my interviews with Wyndham (around my suspension)
1) they are serious about enforcing the "Commercial" use prohibition
2) they are serious about enforcing the "no unfair advantage" rule
3) they know that cancel/rebook/upgrade gives an unfair advantage to the owners that do it
4) they know that Commercial renters, (or megarenters if you prefer) use the cancel/rebook /upgrade to capture discounts and they know that the discounts are necessary to make a reasonable profit


So whether its this year or next or a wait list or something else Im confident that Wyndham will make some changes to reduce rental activity. I think introducing a wait list is genius. Instead of introducing new rules, they introduce a new benefit. You can still cancel a reservation, and you can still book available inventory at a discount, But if you cancel something decent there is no doubt the wait list will pick it up

 

[Richelle]

Going back to the future with this thread may save a lot of re-typing the same discussion.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/cancel-rebook-process-for-vip-discounts-to-end.207218/

That "new reservation system" has been a long time coming. Almost three years? I'm not saying it's impossible, but it could just be another VC spouting off BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CO skier]

That "new reservation system" has been a long time coming. Almost three years? I'm not saying it's impossible, but it could just be another VC spouting off BS.

Exactly my point. If the training is not until March, how does the VC know anything about what will happen, if Voyager even happens then or ever?

The point is the same as some of the posts in 2013, "There is no reason to panic, now".

I know I will believe it when I see it, and not before.

 

[John_and_Val]

Just had a VC help me on reservations........she knew nothing about getting rid of cancel and rebook and thought maybe sometime in 2017, they will roll out voyager. No one knows the answer!

 

[Sandy VDH]

All I can say is that they have a crap IT department, and I have an IT background.

 

[bnoble]

But a league of sales people will have to sing a different tune, and a lot of people who bought expecting that feature will be pissed. It will impact a lot of renters who count on most of their profit by this approach.

Of these folks, Sales will be the least disrupted, as I'm sure they will come up with some other compelling reason to buy.

So, will they reimburse us developer owners who purchases for that reason?

As noted above: not unless it was promised in the written contract (and it wasn't).

But add me to the "believe it when I see it" camp. They have under-invested in IT human capital more or less forever, and it shows.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The horse for the next 5+ years has already escaped the barn ... open market renters ... those who have been renting the discounted reservations (small unit booked for 1/2 the points and then upgraded to a large unit) will NOT become a full price renter nor a Wyndham owner. They will seek out AirBnB, motels with free breakfasts and other cheaper options.... or other options like cruising or non-American destinations.

Wyndham will profit from the MegaRenters returning inventory thru Ovations ... selling those free points (inventory built at years ago) and selling CWA (a membership club .. not deeded real estate ownership). And Wyndham will expand their rental market options ... at almost NO BUILDING costs, no time lag, no weather delay, no new staffing or training budgets costs, no additional inventory ... leading to BIGGER PROFITs. PLUS ... they have the HOA performing maintenance and front desk staff, paying for turnover units to the next guest, refurnishing units every several years and each HOA is the legally responsible entity for lawsuits....plus the resort staff has HIGH turnover... less vacation time, younger staff for health insurance and vacationing costs, parttime staff with no benefits, etc. Corporate Wyndham is cost-plus to the HOAs ... they just bill all their expenses back to the HOA.

I have been around the pools/hot tubs and the Tiki bars at Wyndham resorts for a decade or more. 15-25 years ago (according to promo literature I have seen), Wyndham's target buyers were union employees and blue collar workers. These targeted buyers could not afford a 2nd home, had no interest in going to Europe and had growing vacation entitlements from work. Larger families needed 2 rooms ... but a 7 night timeshare with a kitchen, those numbers worked. Plan ahead, pay monthly, drive to locations, 2bdr with a full kitchen & a living room ... 3 colored TVs ... dishwasher ... onsite pool ... escorted sightseeing (planned by people at the resort). Many times, the coworkers at work brought the same fixed weeks (summer plant shutdown weeks). Doctors, lawyers and the white collar managers ... brought houses at the beach or on the golf .... their secretaries and janitors brought timeshare weeks. Retirees brought the cheaper, upfront cost ... off season or winter weeks. Or at some of the earlier older resorts SOLD only ... a RED WEEK bundled with a BLUE WEEK (resorts such as Shawnee (PA) and Smuggs (VT)).

I attended my very first timeshare presentation in 1975 ... at Shawnee (RCI0001 resort). 2 weeks ... one RED week and one BLUE week - both on ONE DEED. $3750 ... if I remember correctly. That is what and HOW they SOLD that resort. And if you look at eBay .. you will sometimes still find those 2-week deeds.

Am I rich? NO. Why do I own timeshares? Can't afford a "snowbird vacation" home near the beach in South Florida but could buy those "winter beach block" timeshare weeks ... many for chump change.

Ovations will or has killed off that source of Wyndham weeks on eBay.

 

[ecwinch]

Introduction of the waitlist won't kill cancellation/rebook... just make it harder and/or only useful for off-season/shoulder-season vacationeers.

 

[vacationhopeful]

The original reason for discounted near checkin dates was to get empty units occupied by VIP owners using LESS points as a benefit of being a high points owner of developer points.

As for renting timeshare vacation weeks ...

Yes ... cheap vacation stays will rent. But your client base has no loyalty to either YOU (the owner/renter), the resort chain or resort location. It is totally PRICE to benefit value. And if they have to pay costs on full point value reservations (and other costs like Wyndham has .. reservation transactions, housekeeping credits and guest certificates after the 1 (ONE) Free account GC).... the guest/client will find other cheaper resorts. And if they have A BIG VACATION budget .. Marriott or Sheraton or Starwood or DVC are higher tier places.

 

[John_and_Val]

And now it is a money making cash cow for NON Wyndham, resale point, mega-renters. AGAIN, eliminate VIP Privileges, except points purchased from Wyndham and make one of the perks the cancel/rebook trick. If you want to rent.......buy enough points to cover your cost via resale. And yes, I know in order to be VIP you must have a Wyndham purchased contract.....but the majority of points "commercial" accounts use is resale points

 

[ronparise]

Introduction of the waitlist won't kill cancellation/rebook... just make it harder and/or only useful for off-season/shoulder-season vacationeers.

Exactly.

the the guys that rent for profit concentrate their efforts at the most popular times and places

 

[ronparise]

And now it is a money making cash cow for NON Wyndham, resale point, mega-renters. AGAIN, eliminate VIP Privileges, except points purchased from Wyndham and make one of the perks the cancel/rebook trick. If you want to rent.......buy enough points to cover your cost via resale. And yes, I know in order to be VIP you must have a Wyndham purchased contract.....but the majority of points "commercial" accounts use is resale points

Don't fret

I'm sure this will happen. Voyager will give them that capability

 

[ecwinch]

Exactly.

the the guys that rent for profit concentrate their efforts at the most popular times and places

Right. But it will still be a nice upsell to all those baby-boomers who bought 5-15 years ago and now are positioned to travel more. Huge demographic there.

 

[John_and_Val]

Ron, I do not disagree with what you did. Hell, I own resale too. You should be employed by Wyndham for a damn good salary because it seems you know a lot more then them. I am sure you went into whatever meetings, or phone calls and blew the minds of a lot of wyndham people. Kinda bitter/sweet for you....I hope you are satisfied with the outcome and they treated you fair.

 

[pagosajim]

Corporate Wyndham is cost-plus to the HOAs ... they just bill all their expenses back to the HOA.

Maybe true for some HOAs, but through direct experience with my HOA (and all others at Pagosa), we pay a fixed percentage of our operating budget to cover the management fee. As our operating budget grows, so does the overall fee to Wyndham. Pretty sweet deal for them.