United drags passenger off the plane because of overbooking.

[Bunk]

Not so friendly skys.
United overbooked its flight from O'Hare to Louisville. Got volunteers to give up seats before boarding. Then after boarding the plane United said four more people had to give up seats because it needed to fly four United employees to Louisville for a Monday flight. Apparently it had the computer choose 4 people. Look what happened to the one who objected.

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...d-united-flight-chicago-louisville/100274374/

 

[Passepartout]

Hmmmm. Can you say, "Friendly Skies?" Someone will regret this decision.

 

[sts1732]

Not so friendly skys.
United overbooked its flight from O'Hare to Louisville. Got volunteers to give up seats before boarding. Then after boarding the plane United said four more people had to give up seats because it needed to fly four United employees to Louisville for a Monday flight. Apparently it had the computer choose 4 people. Look what happened to the one who objected.

http://www.courier-journal.com/stor...d-united-flight-chicago-louisville/100274374/

Another fine example of "friendly Skies".................Wonder if they had to sit in the taken seats or if they rearranged the whole plane so the flight crew could sit up front.

 

[rapmarks]

That is unbelievable


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[klpca]

The PR folks for United must be shaking their heads at this point. Quite ridiculous. Why they didn't just offer up the big bucks to get people to voluntarily leave is beyond me. It would have been a much better option than handling it the way that they did.

 

[Glynda]

So wrong on so many levels! Can't wait to read how this one turns out in the courts!

 

[Glynda]

The PR folks for United must be shaking theirs heads at this point. Quite ridiculous. Why they didn't just offer up the big bucks to get people to voluntarily leave is beyond me. It would have been a much better option than handling it the way that they did.

Yes, it seems that their best offer was $800. Yet this is irreversible PR and will end up costing them much more.

 

[klpca]

Yes, it seems that their best offer was $800. Yet this is irreversible PR and will end up costing them much more.

Exactly. It says a lot about their corporate culture.

 

[Ken555]

Simply absurd. Yet another reason not to fly United.


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[davidvel]

What should an airline do when a person who gets bumped ultimately refuses to leave the aircraft?

 

[klpca]

What should an airline do when a person who gets bumped ultimately refuses to leave the aircraft?

Easily solved with money. Find someone who will get off without a fight. Letting it get to this point is stupid.

 

[presley]

What a cruel thing to do.

 

[Passepartout]

What should an airline do when a person who gets bumped ultimately refuses to leave the aircraft?

More to the point, since the airline entered into a 'Contract of Carriage' with the passenger, what penalty should the airline pay for breach of contract. After all, it was the airline that overbooked the flight. They KNEW how many people that airplane held, and they continued to book above that number. I think they should have put those passengers they chose to bump on a private jet if necessary to honor their contract & for PR.

 

[Luanne]

The PR folks for United must be shaking theirs heads at this point. Quite ridiculous. Why they didn't just offer up the big bucks to get people to voluntarily leave is beyond me. It would have been a much better option than handling it the way that they did.

I haven't read the article, but I read on another site where this was being discussed, that money, free tickets, etc. were offered and they still didn't get enough people to take those offers. Of course, I'm not saying the way this passenger was treated was right.

 

[klpca]

I haven't read the article, but I read on another site where this was being discussed, that money, free tickets, etc. were offered and they still didn't get enough people to take those offers. Of course, I'm not saying the way this passenger was treated was right.

What I read was that they were offering $800. It appears that once you're seated on the plane, that's not enough of an incentive to get off. I just think they should have increased their offer. Everyone has a price. ☺

 

[2rebecca]

More to the point, since the airline entered into a 'Contract of Carriage' with the passenger, what penalty should the airline pay for breach of contract. After all, it was the airline that overbooked the flight. They KNEW how many people that airplane held, and they continued to book above that number. I think they should have put those passengers they chose to bump on a private jet if necessary to honor their contract & for PR.

Good point, but to make it worse, it sounds like it was more than just being overbooked. They decided their stand-by employees should get the seats instead of the paying customers (see quote below). They could have just put the employees on a different flight, or bumped up the reward for voluntarily giving up your seat. $800 is nothing if you miss a day of vacation. I bet if they had sweetened the pot to $1200-1500 folks would have volunteered. I've volunteered before, but I waited until the reward was enough to make it worth the inconvenience.
"...once the flight was filled those on the plane were told that four people needed to give up their seats to stand-by United employees that needed to be in Louisville on Monday for a flight."

 

[davidvel]

More to the point, since the airline entered into a 'Contract of Carriage' with the passenger, what penalty should the airline pay for breach of contract. After all, it was the airline that overbooked the flight. They KNEW how many people that airplane held, and they continued to book above that number. I think they should have put those passengers they chose to bump on a private jet if necessary to honor their contract & for PR.

The contract and Federal law allow passengers to be bumped. This happens hundreds of times a day, as I understand it.

I haven't read the article, but I read on another site where this was being discussed, that money, free tickets, etc. were offered and they still didn't get enough people to take those offers. Of course, I'm not saying the way this passenger was treated was right.

What I read was that they were offering $800. It appears that once you're seated on the plane, that's not enough of an incentive to get off. I just think they should have increased their offer. Everyone has a price. ☺

Easily solved with money. Find someone who will get off without a fight. Letting it get to this point is stupid.

So I understand that people will say they should just keep increasing their offer, "to a million dollars...," which we of course know will not happen, as they will never offer more than what the law requires, which is up to 400% of your one-way fare (www.transportation.gov).

So what should an airline do when a person who gets bumped (properly according to the laws and regulations), ultimately refuses to leave the aircraft? Let the passengers on the plane decide who the most important travelers are? Leave the loudest, most combative passengers, etc?

 

[klpca]

The contract and Federal law allow passengers to be bumped. This happens hundreds of times a day, as I understand it.



So I understand that people will say they should just keep increasing their offer, "to a million dollars...," which we of course know will not happen, as they will never offer more than what the law requires, which is up to 400% of your one-way fare (www.transportation.gov).

So what should an airline do when a person who gets bumped (properly according to the laws and regulations), ultimately refuses to leave the aircraft? Let the passengers on the plane decide who the most important travelers are? Leave the loudest, most combative passengers, etc?

Honestly I'm just looking at this from a PR standpoint. United created the situation themselves and then expected passengers to get them out of their jam. The most efficient way to get a combative passenger off of a plane is to not have the situation rise to that level. And I didn't say to increase compensation to a million dollars, but increase it enough to get that person off the plane without having to call the police. They overbooked the flight and they needed to move employees to another airport - this was on them.

For the record (without defending United Airlines) once the police get on the plane I think you should just go with them. Because it's not going to end well for you.

 

[Laurie]

I recently had the most nightmarish cross-country flight experience with United. Every flight ias overbooked, and everything (information, computer system, broken equipment) was chaotic, and some of the employees had a hard time restraining from commenting on that. Other employees acted like power-drunk prison guards. A pilot and flight attendant actually went down to baggage and reclaimed for me a regulation-conforming suitcase that had been forcibly wrested from my hands at the gate - it contained documents too risky for me to lose - good thing because they found it in the wrong place, not bound for my destination, and with all the delays and changed flights I endured, it was certain to be at best delayed, if not lost. So much incompetence and hostility. We had volunteered to be bumped - big mistake because that began one of the many cascades into chaos. Serious overbooking is customary, and I won't ever fly that airline again.

 

[davidvel]

Honestly I'm just looking at this from a PR standpoint. United created the situation themselves and then expected passengers to get them out of their jam. The most efficient way to get a combative passenger off of a plane is to not have the situation rise to that level. And I didn't say to increase compensation to a million dollars, but increase it enough to get that person off the plane without having to call the police. They overbooked the flight and they needed to move employees to another airport - this was on them.

For the record (without defending United Airlines) once the police get on the plane I think you should just go with them. Because it's not going to end well for you.

I agree it was mishandled badly. What I was trying to say is that, there will always be people dozens of people every day who get involuntarily bumped for various reasons we or the passengers don't agree with. At some point, there will always people that refuse to leave the aircraft, because they are drunk, disobey orders, or are involuntarily bumped. At that point, they will have to be removed, willingly or not.

The reason this is a story is not because the airline offered crappy compensation, bumped people for its own scheduling purposes, etc. That happens multiple times every single day, but you don't see stories like this every day. We are reading this because someone refused to leave the aircraft when instructed by the airline, and then physically resisted against the police and cried and screamed like a baby who fell down the stairs.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I see a 'closed settlement' with a mutual non-disclosure agreements. And the TSA and airport security will be involved. And another suit/payout to all the stunned and shocked passengers who were treated to this event of flying.

Whether ANY settlement is deserving, called for or should be paid ... is NOT what I am commenting on or recommending ... it is the drama which is being 'rewarded'.

Since 9/11, the number 1 rule when on ANY airplane is, FOLLOW ALL INSTRUCTIONS YOU GET FROM THE FLIGHT CREW. Else, you will be removed and will be charge with a criminal act(s) and fined & jail time PLUS all costs and damages.

 

[SueDonJ]

I've sat in airports long after the flight was supposed to take off because the flight crew was unable to get to their next assignment on time. That affects far more passengers throughout the system than just one planeload or one unlucky passenger whose number was called when the airline had exhausted all other methods to lighten the passenger load.

So if this turns out to be a case of them needing to ferry a flight crew to their next assignment, offering the usual incentives for passengers to voluntarily give up their seats without enough takers, having to resort to a stated lottery system to force passengers to give up their seats, and then a passenger thinking the rules don't apply to him so he had to be physically forced? Well, in that case I don't think the airline should be faulted at all and I don't think any compensation above or beyond the usual is warranted.

Whether airlines should be allowed to overbook flights is a different issue. If enough people actively lobbied against it then maybe it could be legislated against but I doubt that's ever going to happen.

 

[TUGBrian]

guess im in the minority.

the guy wasnt forcibly removed "to make room"...he was forcibly removed because he refused to give up his seat after losing the "lottery" that randomly picks passengers to get bumped.

we are talking HOURS here of the airline offering money for people to give up their seats...explaining that people were going to be bumped if they did NOT give up their seats....even offering hundreds of dollars in travel vouchers to give up the seats.

everyone has heard this message if they travel regularly, its repeated nearly every 5 minutes or so over the loudspeakers until they get enough volunteers....and its also explained that they are going to randomly select folks to get bumped off the flight if noone steps up to the plate.

I get the concept of not wanting to give up your seat because you HAVE to get to your destination...but its not like cops just walked on the plane and began dragging this guy off....he made a conscious decision that he was "not going to get up" for the flight attendants and captains orders...thus they called security to have him removed.


I grow weary of the mainstream media making up inflammatory headlines...and no doubt that "man forcibly removed from plane to make room for standby passengers" causes more arguments and outrage than "man refuses to listen to flight attendants and thus security had to be called to remove him from the plane"


its just like the previous story about the girl and her "leggings" when the headline narrative was trying to make the airline out to be some sort of fashion police that turned out to not be the case at all.

 

[ace2000]

Well said Brian... and exactly my thoughts.

 

[heathpack]

Sorry but there is always someone who will get off a flight if you offer enough. $800 for me- to miss a day of work? I'm sorry, I would lose way more in income that that with a day off work.

If you need to get a flight crew somewhere, you need to get a flight crew somewhere. But carrots are always way better than sticks IMO.

Does the airline have the "right" to force you off a plane after you've been seated? Yes, apparently so. Is it "right," though? Not in my mind, especially since United could've made that happen with better compensation offers.

@SueDonJ, you are concerned about the delays of maybe 100 people on a single flight out of Louisville. But remember that physician who was dragged off the flight may have had 20 appts booked that next day, so you're automatically inconveniencing at least 20 people, perhaps more. Also the physician's office staff who have to work late some other day that week, and each one of their childcare providers, and the employers of the patients who must now give the employee another few hours off to get to the doctor.

And so on. This is why it is way better to offer compensation until you have volunteers. Passengers have a much better sense of how urgently each of them needs to get to their destination. Miss your mother's funeral? Not worth $800. Miss two midterm exams? Not worth $800. Miss a day of work when you are a solo practitioner MD? Not worth $800. Get home a day late when you're retired? Worth $800 or $1000 for sure. Or a college student with no exams? Or even an employee at a regular place of employment where you're a cog who can be done without for a single day with little impact? Those people will eventually bite if you offer enough. Do it and avoid the miserable publicity.