Unit I rented does not have promised view [Marriott Grande Ocean]

[TUGBrian]

pm me the owners info, curious to see if they have posted ads on TUG as well. (and ill remove them if the owner doesnt make this right or provide a satisfactory explanation/other side of the story!)

 

[1700Bax1]

pm me the owners info, curious to see if they have posted ads on TUG as well. (and ill remove them if the owner doesnt make this right or provide a satisfactory explanation/other side of the story!)

How do I PM you? I just joined and am still navigating the site. Don't want to officially "out him" yet just in case he is willing to make this right.

 

[DeniseM]

click on TUG Brian's blue user name, and then click on START A CONVERSATION

 

[tschwa2]

Marriott sold Grande Ocean as Ocean Front and Ocean Side. Some units do have better ocean views than others I believe, but on the Marriott.com site they changed the name a few years back to lagoon view or courtyard view or some such because enough renters from Marriott.com complained.


If it was redweek verified you can complain to redweek if not the bone is with the owner but you might want to ask others opinion in the Marriott forum about what to really expect with an Ocean side view.

 

[tschwa2]

Or move this whole thread to the Marriott forum and change the name to rented view difference Grande Ocean. I am sure plenty with vast experience at the resort can chime in.

 

[SueDonJ]

Marriott's Grande Ocean never sold units with the "ocean view" designation. The resort has either "oceanfront" (which is "close to beach" on marriott.com and may be on the confirmation notice) or "oceanside" (which is "courtyard" ...) Here's the resort map; the imaginary line separating oceanfront and oceanside units is all the way across at the lower edges of the Sea Horse and Sand Castle Buildings.

It's fairly common, at least with the Hilton Head Island Marriott resorts, that their official unit designations can be somewhat misleading. But it's explained completely to owners when purchasing, so if this owner actually put the term "ocean view" into his rental contract I would say s/he has some explaining to do (and maybe a partial refund is due.)

 

[1700Bax1]

Thanks- that's helpful. I saw some units listed as "oceanside." Probably why. This one was clearly listed as "ocean view," which in my mind is different.

At this point, I'm stuck with what I'm stuck with. I was naive, and I'm generally not. I felt VERY uncomfortable initially, but I let my guard down- knowing better- because others I know had good experiences. In retrospect, I should have known better. It really wasn't any different than renting something off Craig's List, I suppose (which I'd never do). I was just an idiot. Probably lucky I have a unit at all, really.

I sent the owner an email and await his response.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks- that's helpful. I saw some units listed as "oceanside." Probably why. This one was clearly listed as "ocean view," which in my mind is different.

At this point, I'm stuck with what I'm stuck with. I was naive, and I'm generally not. I felt VERY uncomfortable initially, but I let my guard down- knowing better- because others I know had good experiences. In retrospect, I should have known better. It really wasn't any different than renting something off Craig's List, I suppose (which I'd never do). I was just an idiot. Probably lucky I have a unit at all, really.

I sent the owner an email and await his response.

The best outcome will be that the owned unit is actually "oceanfront" and the owner advertised it instead as "oceanview" to lower expectations, knowing that some oceanfront units do not directly face the ocean and/or have limited ocean views from the lower floors. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[DeniseM]

Based on this statement from the owner, it seems unlikely that this is an Oceanfront view:

His response was, "Oh well, I think the resort changed the name of the view to lagoon or pool. It will still be great. Have fun!"

If the OP's statements are accurate, this sounds intentionally misleading to me.

 

[davidvel]

Based on this statement from the owner, it seems unlikely that this is an Oceanfront view:


If the OP's statements are accurate, this sounds intentionally misleading to me.

Yes, and the funny part is if he had said "oceanside", he arguably would have been accurate (as to the original designation he bought.) But his comment certainly leads one to conclude that he knew the designation had changed, and didn't tell the renter.

 

[1700Bax1]

In an email I sent specifically asking about the unit and the view, this was his email response (back in March):

You are renting my specific unit type, it doesn't work the way you would think...NO ONE owns a specific unit number...we each own a unit type...this one is ocean view, but the exact unit isn't determined until that week by Marriott...but you are worrying about nothing...it doesn't matter..but I completely understand the confusion...you will have an ocean view condo, two bedrooms, full furnished kitchen, whirlpool in the master bedroom, etc...etc...etc...just don't know exactly which unit they are going to put you in, and it doesn't really matter anyway because there isn't a "bad one" in the whole complex....in fact, all the units of this type are exactly the same...hope that helps..Randy


This was his response to my email 2 days ago when I found out the unit wasn't ocean view:

Whoopsi...Just saw your previous email...we were there a few weeks ago..No Worries!!! Marriott changed the name of what was called the "ocean view"...now they call it something else, I'm writing this without my paperwork, so I apologize for not having it in front of me... but it's still the same ocean view thing...I was just as concerned as you when I saw MY reservation a few weeks ago say the other as well...but, we got what we always get...nothing to worry about...Pool view, and Lagoon view are the same thing...if they make you choose, the lagoon and the pool are in front of the ocean, I'd say lagoon view if they make you choose, but it doesn't matter...Have a great time there!!! Randy

In retrospect, he probably MEANT oceanside.????????

 

[1700Bax1]

And now this email:

What they call it does not matter...it is still reserved as promised...I can not help if they changed the name recently. Marriott did this, not me. As I said to you previously, I experienced the same thoughts with my reservation there a few weeks ago, only to find out it was still the same thing as it has always been...no different. I understand your concern, but it is unnecessary

 

[SueDonJ]

...

This was his response to my email 2 days ago when I found out the unit wasn't ocean view:

Whoopsi...Just saw your previous email...we were there a few weeks ago..No Worries!!! Marriott changed the name of what was called the "ocean view"...now they call it something else, ...

In retrospect, he probably MEANT oceanside.????????

I was trying to think positively but like others are saying, it seems whatever he said or meant to say it was deliberately misleading. Marriott Vacation Club never "changed the name" of official unit designations at Grande Ocean, and neither Marriott Vacation Club nor Marriott, Int'l (which is the arm that rents Marriott timeshares for cash) ever used the term "oceanview" in purchase documents or on confirmation notices. (The terms "close to beach" and "courtyard" are relatively new but "oceanview" wasn't in use before those - and "relatively" means that we've been discussing these terms on TUG since at least 2011.)

It may help you to know that owners at the Hilton Head Island Marriott resorts are generally placed into the "best" units within the view categories, and that priority usually extends to owners' guests and renters. So while there is never a guarantee of which unit will be assigned to any certain owners, you should be placed in a better oceanside unit than II exchangers and guests renting direct from Marriott. Again, trying to think positively for you ...

In your shoes I would ask Redweek to review this owner's history and any active ads s/he has there, to hopefully prevent this from happening again. And if you paid more for a stated "oceanview" unit than the average "oceanside" ads were asking, you should ask the owner for a refund of the difference.

 

[bogey21]

I may be a party of one here but if it were me I would show up at the Resort and check in. Grand Ocean is a great resort and HHI a great destination. My guess is that there is a good chance you will be more than satisfied with your accommodation and wonder why you got yourself so wound up.

 

[jwalk03]

I may be a party of one here but if it were me I would show up at the Resort and check in. Grand Ocean is a great resort and HHI a great destination. My guess is that there is a good chance you will be more than satisfied with your accommodation and wonder why you got yourself so wound up.

I am sitting in Hilton Head as a type this, and I second this opinion. This isn't worth getting that worked up over, and you shouldn't let it ruin your vacation. There are not many resorts here that are truely on the beach. Just enjoy the resort and your trip! Don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[TUGBrian]

you appear to have posted his info on my profile, vs in the PM...so i went ahead and deleted that.

note this person is not a TUG member.

 

[SueDonJ]

I agree, show up and enjoy all that Grande Ocean and Hilton Head Island offer!

But I disagree that being misled by an owner about the expected view of a rental unit is "small stuff," especially when you're talking about the rental transaction happening via what is arguably the largest and best-known timeshare-rentals-by-owners website! This renter has every right to "sweat" the fact that it doesn't appear his/her questions to the owner are being taken seriously or being answered reasonably.

Besides that, why is it that practically every time it appears an owner may be on the wrong side of a timeshare transaction, invariably there will be at least a few TUGgers who say that it's not important enough to "sweat" or that it should be excused? I don't get it, don't think I ever will.

 

[dioxide45]

I would think that you really should not expect any kind of refund until you actually check in and verify what your view actually is. It seems that some of the issue is around how the view is labeled on Marriott.com vs what they are designated as for owners?

 

[1700Bax1]

Thanks for your perspectives. As a psychologist, I can appreciate "not sweating the small stuff." However, I don't see gathering information, soliciting opinions from those who know more than me about a given topic, and asserting myself in a respectful way as having done this. I've given myself until tomorrow morning to focus on "negatives" of this, and then I'll move on. If I'm not satisfied with what happens by then, I'll revisit the issue upon my return . . . mostly because I don't want this to happen to someone else down the road.

Again, thanks so much for your help. I've learned a lot, and I look forward to turning my brain off for a while. : ) A bit wary about doing another time share rental in the future, but maybe that will pass.

 

[DeniseM]

Personally - I would not let someone get away with what is clearly a scam.

Remember - the OP undoubably paid more than the going rate for a lagoon/pool view, because it was advertised as OCEAN VIEW!

Why do you think the owner never sent the OP the confirmation? He didn't send it because it doesn't say Ocean View!

So the owner hid the view, hoping that the renter would not find out until he checked in and it was too late.

This guy knew exactly what he was doing - just look at the double talk in his responses.

This has all the indications of an intentional scam.

 

[tschwa2]

But at the same time it would have taken the OP less than 5 minutes to discover that there is no such thing as an ocean view at that resort. A call to Marriott.com, a call to the resort, less than 5 minutes of research on TUG. He could have known to pass on it or not, rather than to check it out 3 days before check in after agreeing on it 4 months ago.

 

[DeniseM]

Yes, the OP dropped the ball, but that doesn't excuse the owner who clearly intentionally defrauded him.

To the OP - if you do just a little bit of investigating, it's actually easy to verify a rental, and avoid this kind of situation:

How to confirm that a rental is Legit: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/index....ntal-is-legit-when-you-are-the-renter.109479/

 

[sb2313]

Has the OP indicated if they paid a premium vs Oceanside units for that week? That would go a long way in determining any actual damages here.

 

[davidvel]

But at the same time it would have taken the OP less than 5 minutes to discover that there is no such thing as an ocean view at that resort. A call to Marriott.com, a call to the resort, less than 5 minutes of research on TUG. He could have known to pass on it or not, rather than to check it out 3 days before check in after agreeing on it 4 months ago.

Has the OP indicated if they paid a premium vs Oceanside units for that week? That would go a long way in determining any actual damages here.

Putting aside that Denise has conclusively (beyond a reasonable doubt?) concluded that this was intentional fraud, the issue here is that the OP is getting an oceanside unit, not an oceanfront unit. This despite the owner listing it as a non-existent oceanview unit. (There are only two unit types per other posters, and there is no such thing as an oceanview unit.)

But the listing was never for an oceanfront unit, nor did any of the emails say OP was getting an oceanfront unit. So OP cannot have the expectation that they were getting an oceanfront unit. (There are a lot of oceanfront units on Redweek, and quite a few ocean views . So the OP was at least on inquiry notice to determine what the various categories meant.) OP may have thought they were getting an oceanview (as that designation is used at other resorts), but there is no such unit type at this resort. In fact, it does not appear that the OP had an understanding of what an oceanfront unit vs. oceanside unit vs. (the non-existent) oceanview unit/designation was.

Given all this and seeing the other email, my view is that it is certainly possible (if not probable) that the owner simply mistakenly used the description oceanview when he meant oceanside, and as noted in the email, he felt these were interchangeable, or a distinction without a difference. It is also possible that it was on purpose, but I'm not convinced.

I vote for OP going and enjoying the trip.

 

[DeniseM]

That is not correct - per the front desk, there is no Oceanside View - and the owner knew that, and belatedly recalled that little fact:

"Oh well, I think the resort changed the name of the view to lagoon or pool. It will still be great. Have fun!"

and that's why he didn't send the confirmation to the renter - because it says Lagoon or Pool View.

It's believable that one could mix up oceanside, oceanview, and oceanfront.

It's not believeable to advertise lagoon or pool view as Ocean View.

IMNSHO - even if someone was that confused about their own property, it's not an acceptable mistake - it's the sloppiest of work, and the owner should offer compensation, instead of trying to spin the whole thing.