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Understanding Redemption Options for SO from Resale Units

nativesun1979

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My wife and I have stayed twice at WKORV (once N during a timeshare preview offer, the other in S during our explorer pack return) and love the quality of Westin resorts. We are looking to purchase a resale at a mandatory resort and are trying to understand our redemption options for the associated SO. I know we can't redeem them for SPG unless we requal the unit via direct purchase from the developer. Are we able to buy a unit with say 148,100 or 196,900 SO and multiple smaller units at different locations on different dates? In other words, can we redeem the resale SO throughout the year or do they all have to be used for reservations at once? Are there any other bits of wisdom we should know before buying resale?
 

Markus

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You can make reservations using your StarOptions 8 months prior to arrival at any Vistana resort. Your reservation does not have to be for a week, it can be any number of nights, and for check in on any day of the week. You are only limited by the number of StarOptions that you own.

In accumulating StarOptions, you should be mindful of the maintenance fees. Often deeds with more StarOptions, those in higher seasons, have the same maintenance fees as those in lower seaons. However the cost of acquiring a higher season VOI, is more, so you need to analyze all this and see what is best for you. Sometimes it makes more sense to buy a deed with say 196,900 or even 257,700 Staroptions, rather a multiples of 81,000, because of the maintenance fees attached.



Markus
 

nativesun1979

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You can make reservations using your StarOptions 8 months prior to arrival at any Vistana resort. Your reservation does not have to be for a week, it can be any number of nights, and for check in on any day of the week. You are only limited by the number of StarOptions that you own.

In accumulating StarOptions, you should be mindful of the maintenance fees. Often deeds with more StarOptions, those in higher seasons, have the same maintenance fees as those in lower seaons. However the cost of acquiring a higher season VOI, is more, so you need to analyze all this and see what is best for you. Sometimes it makes more sense to buy a deed with say 196,900 or even 257,700 Staroptions, rather a multiples of 81,000, because of the maintenance fees attached.



Markus

Thanks for the detailed response and items to consider. This is exactly what I am working through. I have an opportunity to buy a WSJ 3-bedroom Bay Vista for $8000 + closing costs in Platinum Season (196,900 SO). Everything I can find indicates MF and taxes should be around $2500/yr. Thoughts on this potential property? We have never owned a timeshare before so I am a little nervous about getting such a large unit with so many SO, but at the same time we love to travel and are wondering if maybe it's the perfect one...
 

Dawnwrey

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Thanks for the detailed response and items to consider. This is exactly what I am working through. I have an opportunity to buy a WSJ 3-bedroom Bay Vista for $8000 + closing costs in Platinum Season (196,900 SO). Everything I can find indicates MF and taxes should be around $2500/yr. Thoughts on this potential property? We have never owned a timeshare before so I am a little nervous about getting such a large unit with so many SO, but at the same time we love to travel and are wondering if maybe it's the perfect one...
If I am not mistaken, WSJ-BV is a voluntary property, so you would not be able to make SO reservations (reservations at other properties).
 

DeniseM

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This are the mandatory resorts - only these resorts have Staroptions when purchased resale:

* Harborside at Atlantis
* Vistana Villages (Bella and Key West phases only)
* Westin St. John (Virgin Grand - Hillside only)
* Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North
* Westin Kierland Villas
 

nativesun1979

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If I am not mistaken, WSJ-BV is a voluntary property, so you would not be able to make SO reservations (reservations at other properties).

Thank you for helping me to avoid a potentially expensive mistake. I'm assuming this would be an excellent unit if I wanted to buy a developer week to requalify the unit though, correct?
 

Ken555

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Thank you for helping me to avoid a potentially expensive mistake. I'm assuming this would be an excellent unit if I wanted to buy a developer week to requalify the unit though, correct?

Possibly, but then the question of the applicability of buying direct comes into the discussion. It's not a common desire unless you want to get to 5* Elite. And, any club benefits (include elite status) is still somewhat undetermined given the recent acquisition. I certainly wouldn't make any long term commitments based on the benefits. That said, I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing a single good mandatory week.


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nativesun1979

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Possibly, but then the question of the applicability of buying direct comes into the discussion. It's not a common desire unless you want to get to 5* Elite. And, any club benefits (include elite status) is still somewhat undetermined given the recent acquisition. I certainly wouldn't make any long term commitments based on the benefits. That said, I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing a single good mandatory week.


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In your opinion, what is the best value per $ at a mandatory resort for SO? We are looking to get into the systems so we can experience using a timeshare as well as buying last minute vacations via II.
 

Ken555

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In your opinion, what is the best value per $ at a mandatory resort for SO? We are looking to get into the systems so we can experience using a timeshare as well as buying last minute vacations via II.

I'm biased, but the general consensus on this issue over the years on TUG has been Westin Kierland 2-bed Plat (plus); the winter weeks. They've been reported for sale from $12-18,000 in the last year (most on the higher end). The real benefit is the maintenance fee, which is now about $1500 (I'm not at my computer so can't check my records...I've owned for 11 years and it's gone from $950ish to about $1500). Still, the MF offers the best value.

However, many also prefer Vistana Villages (the mandatory section) since it is much less expensive to purchase but has a significantly higher MF. IIRC the last time I compared them VV had the advantage for about four or five years after which you would save by owning WKV instead.

Rather than dive into the deep end of StarOptions, you might want to simply get a free week to test II and trading. II trades to the nicer Vistana resorts isn't as readily available now as it once was, but if your schedule is flexible you will be able to get nice resorts. I own both WKV and SDO, and I like having both mandatory and voluntary weeks as they each have their advantages.


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nativesun1979

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I'm biased, but the general consensus on this issue over the years on TUG has been Westin Kierland 2-bed Plat (plus); the winter weeks. They've been reported for sale from $12-18,000 in the last year (most on the higher end). The real benefit is the maintenance fee, which is now about $1500 (I'm not at my computer so can't check my records...I've owned for 11 years and it's gone from $950ish to about $1500). Still, the MF offers the best value.

However, many also prefer Vistana Villages (the mandatory section) since it is much less expensive to purchase but has a significantly higher MF. IIRC the last time I compared them VV had the advantage for about four or five years after which you would save by owning WKV instead.

Rather than dive into the deep end of StarOptions, you might want to simply get a free week to test II and trading. II trades to the nicer Vistana resorts isn't as readily available now as it once was, but if your schedule is flexible you will be able to get nice resorts. I own both WKV and SDO, and I like having both mandatory and voluntary weeks as they each have their advantages.


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Thanks for the info. So you are recommending possibly just getting a free SVN week and trade that within II to see how the system works and if we have enough flexibility to make good use of it? Then add on from there? How is the II trade value calculated - are there resorts that will give us more trading power than others within the SVN network (that are non-mandatory resorts)?
 

okwiater

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I'm biased, but the general consensus on this issue over the years on TUG has been Westin Kierland 2-bed Plat (plus); the winter weeks. They've been reported for sale from $12-18,000 in the last year (most on the higher end). The real benefit is the maintenance fee, which is now about $1500 (I'm not at my computer so can't check my records...I've owned for 11 years and it's gone from $950ish to about $1500). Still, the MF offers the best value.

However, many also prefer Vistana Villages (the mandatory section) since it is much less expensive to purchase but has a significantly higher MF. IIRC the last time I compared them VV had the advantage for about four or five years after which you would save by owning WKV instead.

I would add that the Westin St. John Virgin Grand 3-bedroom Pool Villa is a great ownership as well. It will likely be a little more expensive than Kierland, but comes with 257,700 StarOptions for about $2900 in maintenance fees. The MF-SO ratio is similar to that of Westin Kierland, but many still prefer Kierland due to the fact that the lockoff can be split into two weeks. On the other hand, I prefer the St. John unit since we much prefer to travel there than to Kierland, and the pool villas are a really unique ownership that are difficult to reserve if you don't own one.

Full disclosure: I own (2) Westin Kierland Plat Plus weeks and (1) St. John 3-bedroom Pool Villa.
 

nativesun1979

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I would add that the Westin St. John Virgin Grand 3-bedroom Pool Villa is a great ownership as well. It will likely be a little more expensive than Kierland, but comes with 257,700 StarOptions for about $2900 in maintenance fees. The MF-SO ratio is similar to that of Westin Kierland, but many still prefer Kierland due to the fact that the lockoff can be split into two weeks. On the other hand, I prefer the St. John unit since we much prefer to travel there than to Kierland, and the pool villas are a really unique ownership that are difficult to reserve if you don't own one.

Full disclosure: I own (2) Westin Kierland Plat Plus weeks and (1) St. John 3-bedroom Pool Villa.

St John Virgin Grand is a mandatory portion of the WSJ, correct? If I go that route and get the 257,700 SO, would I be able to use those at other resorts for 3-5 weeks (based on SO costs)? I'm assuming splitting into two weeks is only a reference to doing so at WSJ and doing a 2 bedroom and 1 bedroom unit over 2 weeks.
 

Markus

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You could use them anywhere, and no obligation to use them all at once. So, multiple vacations are possible.

Markus
 

nativesun1979

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You could use them anywhere, and no obligation to use them all at once. So, multiple vacations are possible.

Markus
Do you know any of these units currently available for sale and what are the market prices?

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Ken555

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I would add that the Westin St. John Virgin Grand 3-bedroom Pool Villa is a great ownership as well. It will likely be a little more expensive than Kierland, but comes with 257,700 StarOptions for about $2900 in maintenance fees. The MF-SO ratio is similar to that of Westin Kierland, but many still prefer Kierland due to the fact that the lockoff can be split into two weeks. On the other hand, I prefer the St. John unit since we much prefer to travel there than to Kierland, and the pool villas are a really unique ownership that are difficult to reserve if you don't own one.

Full disclosure: I own (2) Westin Kierland Plat Plus weeks and (1) St. John 3-bedroom Pool Villa.

Yes. Of course, that's a unique experience not fit for everyone annual travel plans. I think it should also be mentioned of the current issues there re property taxes. I don't follow that thread closely so am not familiar with the latest but I recall some people being upset at the recent local decisions and their impact on timeshares, etc.

Would you think it more difficult to sell WSJ vs WKV, should the OP elect in future to sell?

If the intent is to primarily trade via SOs, would you suggest a first time owner buy WSJ or perhaps one WKV, and then another WKV, etc. The MF for two WKV is similar to one WSJ, isn't it? That would offer the similar MF cost, more flexibility and 296,200 SOs. I would think it's much more prudent to buy a unit with less commitment for a first time buyer.


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Ken555

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Thanks for the info. So you are recommending possibly just getting a free SVN week and trade that within II to see how the system works and if we have enough flexibility to make good use of it? Then add on from there? How is the II trade value calculated - are there resorts that will give us more trading power than others within the SVN network (that are non-mandatory resorts)?

Yes, supposedly. Lots of threads here on this particular topic and I suggest you search for those. Just keep in mind exact trade value is a mysterious thing which II keeps to themselves. It's also important to keep in mind that lately trades have changed due to less availability of the better resorts.

It's also important to be able to plan in advance. I recently traded a 1-bed SDO for a 2-bed Grand Timber Lodge ski week in Breckinridge for Dec 2018, which seems to always be available (though not the best weeks). I consider that resort quite nice, though not up to Westin standards. Historically I've been able to trade into other Westin, Sheraton, a Marriott and other nice independent resorts. I don't see that changing for the future, but availability will always be a struggle. Timeshares are a great way to travel but you to maximize value you must be able to plan long in advance and have flexibility on when and where you go or else you'll regret owning.


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nativesun1979

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If I buy multiple smaller weeks at different mandatory resorts, am I able to combine the SOs from the different mandatory resorts to make different reservations. For example, if I have three resorts each at 81,000 SO value, would I be able to combine all the points regardless of when I make the reservations to book multiple weeks at different resorts over multiple years (assuming I am able to bank/carry over my leftover SO for a year).
 

Ken555

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If I buy multiple smaller weeks at different mandatory resorts, am I able to combine the SOs from the different mandatory resorts to make different reservations. For example, if I have three resorts each at 81,000 SO value, would I be able to combine all the points regardless of when I make the reservations to book multiple weeks at different resorts over multiple years (assuming I am able to bank/carry over my leftover SO for a year).

Yes. Just be careful of the total MF. Usually the 81,000 weeks don't make sense if intending to use them mostly for internal exchanges.


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nativesun1979

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We are actively searching to find a the right balance for a resale unit with regard to sale cost and annual MF. My wife and I like to travel and would like to start using the SVN system without absorbing too much of a financial commitment (or uncertainty re tropical locations with taxes). We don't have any children (and no plans for any), so staying in a studio is fine unless we have friends or family with us. Our only experience to date with Westin is a stay at WKORVN and a stay this year (2.5 years after the WKORVN stay) at WKORV. We believe we want a mandatory resort as we don't like to go to the same place every year, we are unsure if we will ever requal by buying from the developer, and we like the idea of internal trading with SO instead of relying on just II or RCI. Thoughts/tips?
 

dioxide45

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I'm biased, but the general consensus on this issue over the years on TUG has been Westin Kierland 2-bed Plat (plus); the winter weeks. They've been reported for sale from $12-18,000 in the last year (most on the higher end). The real benefit is the maintenance fee, which is now about $1500 (I'm not at my computer so can't check my records...I've owned for 11 years and it's gone from $950ish to about $1500). Still, the MF offers the best value.
I have done a lot of analysis between SVV and WKV. The difference between the 81K PP 2BR WKV and the 81K Platinum 2BR SVV is only $3.35 per 1000 SOs. So on an annual basis, the MFs at SVV will only cost $271.48 more than if you owned the same amount of SOs at WKV. Given that, if you get real lucky and can pick up the WKV for $12,000, it would take over 40 years before you broke even. This is based on the assumption that the 2BR SVV would cost you $1,000 and you paid an $11,000 premium to have WKV.

Even comparing the best value MF/SO of WKV to the worst value MF/SO at SVV, the break even is near 30 years.

Given the above. I simply can't see how it makes sense to buy WKV. The only thing going for it is the rental potential. But if your just buying to use, go for SVV Bella or Key West.
 

Ken555

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I have done a lot of analysis between SVV and WKV. The difference between the 81K PP 2BR WKV and the 81K Platinum 2BR SVV is only $3.35 per 1000 SOs. So on an annual basis, the MFs at SVV will only cost $271.48 more than if you owned the same amount of SOs at WKV. Given that, if you get real lucky and can pick up the WKV for $12,000, it would take over 40 years before you broke even. This is based on the assumption that the 2BR SVV would cost you $1,000 and you paid an $11,000 premium to have WKV.

Even comparing the best value MF/SO of WKV to the worst value MF/SO at SVV, the break even is near 30 years.

Given the above. I simply can't see how it makes sense to buy WKV. The only thing going for it is the rental potential. But if your just buying to use, go for SVV Bella or Key West.

Why would you compare the 81k WKV? The only one that makes sense is the 148k week for the same MF.


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Markus

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Regardig the prices of 257,700 StarOptions at St John Virgin Grand. I see them on RedWeek for $29,000 to $37,000. Other sites as high as $60,000.

The rental potential of WKV is quite good. Weeks go for $4,000 in Spring training season.

Markus
 

dioxide45

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Why would you compare the 81k WKV? The only one that makes sense is the 148k week for the same MF.


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Fair enough. I compared like for like, that is why I went with the 81,000 SOs. Perhaps the number of years would be less as I doubt those sell for $12,000? If anyone knows how much the 1BR Premium WKV sell for, I could provide a more accurate number.

If we look at the 148K 2BR LO PP WKV and compare it to the 3BR LO Platinum SVV Key West. The MF per SO is $4.79 cheaper for the 148K WKV. If you pay the same $11,000 premium to buy WKV, the break even is at 15 years.
 

DavidnRobin

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There is more to value than just purchase price and SO/MF - next level thinking is needed.
Ex. My WKV have more than paid for themselves (straight up), and I still have cheap MF/SO Rate.
And can sell them pretty much what I paid.
 

dioxide45

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There is more to value than just purchase price and SO/MF - next level thinking is needed.
Ex. My WKV have more than paid for themselves (straight up), and I still have cheap MF/SO Rate.
And can sell them pretty much what I paid.
If you are buying as a pure SO generator, I am not sure there is any other level of thinking needed. MF/SO is really the only way you can compare. If you are buying to use, you really can't bring rental income in to the question. When you rent your unit out, you don't get to use.

The same about being able to sell for what you paid could be said for SVV weeks too. As long as you bought resale.
 
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