Timeshare Salesman just love TUG on facebook!

[rapmarks]

Joan poor social skills hits the nail on the head.

Many timeshare salespersons are decent people, but in the years living in a timeshare resort I have seen salesmen: beat their wife with a pool cue; be caught snorting cocaine in the restroom at the restaurant on property; get into shouting matches and threaten people in the bar; get into fistfights in the parking lot; run up huge bar tabs and never pay it, threaten employees to not charge them for all their drinks; behave so badly they and all employees not allowed in the restaurant.
also have listened to bragging non stop how much money they have; this usually followed by bankruptcy or foreclosure. Many are my neighbors or former neighbors. I have seen many come and go; invariably run into them on timeshare exchanges elsewhere. Usually if I reported the meeting the people still at this resort would say he left owing me money.
I would say the young ones trying it out do not realize that some of the things they say are not true. The experienced ones are professional liars.
This is a true story. In 1987 when we bought our lot, the sales manger told us that when his friend told him about selling timeshares he said an that has to be illegal, you are going to end up in jail. that sales manager got out of the business, but the "friend" is a super high up in the business now.
we still have neighbors who sell timeshare for a living, they are good people, but they managed to keep their heads on straight when they made a lot of money.

 

[billymach4]

Really shameful that there are individual salesmen who resort to such vile exchanges.

Brian, keep up the good work in exposing the true dark sided TS salespeople of the industry.

I do understand the product must be sold in order to get into marketplace. But it is the tactics that leave us with a bad taste.

If only there was a better sales model.

 

[lschaaf]

TUGBrian, I really don't get why you are on such a mission to promote the discrediting od timeshare salesmen and shame of buying retail. You say the point is education and presenting the other side of the story, but no it seems really vindictive and spiteful. One can promote TUG and buying resale without being so antagonistic. I do realize the mob mentality hatred that exists on TUG against salespeople and the utter repugnance of buying retail, but it just isn't all that good a look.

Don't get me wrong, I can envision no scenario under which 99% of consumers could benefit by buying retail over resale, and I also think timeshare salespeople are prone to distortions of truth. However, I do not broadly demonize the purchasing of retail, since those retail buyers do provide us resale buyers an invaluable service, and I recognize that the nature of sales is to create demand, and the good ones in any industry can do just that by massaging facts to present a desired "truth".

I have to say, I feel the same. SOMEONE has to buy retail, or the new developments will stop or terms will change again to the detriment of current owners.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Fret Not.

SOMEONE has to buy retail, or the new developments will stop or terms will change again to the detriment of current owners.

Nah.

If no timeshare company ever built another timeshare resort or added any more units to existing timeshares, there would still be plenty enough timeshare units for everybody who wants one, far into the future.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[raygo123]

There is one way to assure fairness, price schedules. That no matter where u buy your points. Let me give u an example my wife and I just returned from NYC Wyndham

In May 21st we bought 128,000 point when national sales for Wyndham called and offered us a price of $130/1000 points. Said wanted to close out a contract we had from March 2013. In February of 2014 in seagarden Florida the price was over $150/1000 points

Makes alot of sense. Not.

Let's now return to July of this year in NYC midtown.
We now had 154000 point we bought back in 1988 as a resale.

The contract we bought in March 2013 for 190000 at
$130/1000 ponts the contract from May 21 of this year for $130/1000 points we bought 128,000

Almost forgot the pics for 210000 points which made us VIP silver.

Now in NYC it was presented to co
mbine all the legal point and buy 172000 to become gold. I mentioned the may sale should have a price freeze at the $130/1000
Price. The sales manager checked an said no freeze
Existed. The best price he quoted was$150/1000.
Guess what we trusted him ha. When I returned home, the May agreement was there and in fact had a freeze on the May purchase for 128000 points. Called contract resolution and they basically said tuff. And that each resort has their own inventory and if I wanted a better price I should have bought at Branson mo.

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[vacationhopeful]

..... Let me give u an example my wife and I just returned from NYC Wyndham

In May 21st we bought 128,000 point when national sales for Wyndham .... price of $130/1000 points. ... In February of 2014 in seagarden Florida the price was over $150/1000 points

....
Let's now return to July of this year in NYC midtown.
We now had 154000 point we bought back in 1988 as a resale.

The contract we bought in March 2013 for 190000 at
$130/1000 ponts the contract from May 21 of this year for $130/1000 points we bought 128,000

....Now NYC .. The best price he quoted was$150/1000.
..... And that each resort has their own inventory and if I wanted a better price I should have bought at Branson mo.

.....

Inventory available or whom/site is Licensed to Sell Real Estate in the state where the property is located?

Your perception of being cheated and the sales manager's not so enlightening statement is WHERE the TRUTH is between. NYC is a licensed location with NY State licensed agent & managers and is NOT selling Branson real estate (which it is NOT license to do). Your PRICE per thousand points was an offered based in NYC or another locale? The value of real estate is WHAT you are buying ....

If your case presented here was for CWA points ... you might have an discussion. Not for CWP Points - those are deeded and must following the real estate laws where they are being sold to YOU.

 

[Ty1on]

Inventory available or whom/site is Licensed to Sell Real Estate in the state where the property is located?

Your perception of being cheated and the sales manager's not so enlightening statement is WHERE the TRUTH is between. NYC is a licensed location with NY State licensed agent & managers and is NOT selling Branson real estate (which it is NOT license to do). Your PRICE per thousand points was an offered based in NYC or another locale? The value of real estate is WHAT you are buying ....

If your case presented here was for CWA points ... you might have an discussion. Not for CWP Points - those are deeded and must following the real estate laws where they are being sold to YOU.

I actually get what he is saying, and it's a little reverse from your response.

Of course a deed at any given location is dependent upon the legal, construction, and marketing costs of that location. A perfect points system would take into account cost of ownership, at least from an equity perspective. If it costs you twice as much to buy into NYC, then the club membership based on that deed should convey twice as many points. That way, the cost-in of any given resort is conveyed in its trading power.

If a developer cannot economically build a resort that trades fair with other resorts within the system, then they shouldn't build (or buy) it.

 

[raygo123]

That is the point, no land deed no inventory as it is club access only points as of today NYC midtown is not even part of access. So I bought into a national program, and international are they "licensed" to sell that??? Knowing a bit about real estate employees of Wyndham don't need a license now do they? And there is no deed. It's points!

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[raygo123]

Also she could have interchanged Branson with many others point, with standard pricing takes liers nitwits and all other things their sales people have been called. Yes god put bugs snakes lizard s all on this earth, but all are necessary.

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[ondeadlin]

Brian, I'm amazed that you have the patience to keep trying when you have to deal with abuse like that salesperson. As one of the thousands of people TUG has saved from buying retail, I thank you for what you do.

As for the argument that "somebody has to buy retail," I think one can agree that that's true, but also believe that in an honest market - i.e. one that wasn't based largely on high-pressure sales tactics - developers could charge an honest price and still make money. They'd just make LESS money. But obviously they're not interested in that. They'd rather make as much money as they can, even if it means they have to play fast-and-loose with the facts and use sales tactics that ultimately leave a lot of people feeling scammed.

It wouldn't destroy the retail new construction timeshare market if every consumer were an educated consumer, it would just make it less profitable.

 

[Beefnot]

It wouldn't destroy the retail new construction timeshare market if every consumer were an educated consumer, it would just make it less profitable.

Indeed, and at minimum the developments would likely be less extravagant. At maximum, the lack of the healthy margins would likely create disincentive to create many new developments. Also, although the gross margins may be very healthy on each individual sale, the net margins on the balance might possibly be much less extravagant. There is so much inventory holding cost for years, and sometimes decades, until a resort is sold out.

 

[ondeadlin]

Indeed, and at minimum the developments would likely be less extravagant. At maximum, the lack of the healthy margins would likely create disincentive to create many new developments. Also, although the gross margins may be very healthy on each individual sale, the net margins on the balance might possibly be much less extravagant. There is so much inventory holding cost for years, and sometimes decades, until a resort is sold out.

New construction would still have some premium. Using Hawaii as an example, if you sold 52 weeks for an average price of $20,000 (a price higher than resale, but much less than current retail for, say, the new Hyatt property or the new Marriott towers flanking it), you'd essentially be selling a $1 million condo. Even with the hassle of having to sell each individual week, I think there's still plenty of profit to be made on that model.

Would there - perhaps - be fewer amenities and a slower pace of growth? Perhaps, but I'm not sure that's necessary a bad thing.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Nothing Sez High-Pressure Arm Twisting Is The Only Way To Sell Timeshares.

It wouldn't destroy the retail new construction timeshare market if every consumer were an educated consumer, it would just make it less profitable.

Shux, moving to an honesty-based sales model, cutting out the high-pressure razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo, would save lots.

Who's to say they couldn't improve profit margins by moving to more of a Wal-Mart sales model ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Ken555]

Who's to say they couldn't improve profit margins by moving to more of a Wal-Mart sales model ?

Would you buy a timeshare, retail, from a Walmart staffer? ROFL


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[csxjohn]

Would you buy a timeshare, retail, from a Walmart staffer? ROFL


Sent from my iPad

If all the facts are presented and the price is right, why not?

 

[Ken555]

If all the facts are presented and the price is right, why not?

You missed the point. Don't take this the wrong way, but I have a hard time believing Walmart staffers could effectively replace timeshare retail sales. Yes, I'm saying that an expensive timeshare sales can not be effectively sold by minimum wage employees.

OMG, did I just defend timeshare sales? I need a drink.


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[AwayWeGo]

Why Not ?

Would you buy a timeshare, retail, from a Walmart staffer?

If I wanted a full-freight timeshare, I'd sooner buy it from Wal-Mart or Costco, etc., than from any timeshare company.

But I wasn't so much advocating the Wal-Mart company as a timeshare dealer. Rather, I was suggesting timeshare companies move to something more like a Wal-Mart sales model, abandoning all that expensive high-pressure razzle-dazzle & ballyhoo.

Plus, I'd lots rather keep on buying timeshares resale -- or getting'm el freebo.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[billymach4]

Forget Walmart / Costco.

Develop a nice resort. Offer some promo deals without the sales tour mumbo jumbo. Offer a reasonable priced deal without the markup required for such exorbitant marketing and commission

Create a menu of options to buy in, on site or via internet sales, with minimal overhead.

Cut out the salesman and the dirty baggage that goes along with the forced sales.

 

[billymach4]

However I am about to contradict myself here.

With the following products and services there is a large segment of the population that requires education in order to make a purchase.

Life Insurance and Annuites

Automobiles

Stocks, Bonds

Etc.

This is where a qualified salesperson is required. Here on Tug many of us have been educated in the way of Timeshare. So in essence we feel at home buying resales sight unseen.

If you understand how Life Insurance works you don't need to be educated in Life and Annuities. There are ways to purchase these products using a self service model. Same goes for Stocks, and Bonds.

Automobiles are still locked into the dealer/Salesman model unfortunately due to Dealer pressure at the state legislature.

"AND THE BEAT GOES ON"

 

[Beefnot]

I would prefer Nordstrom quality brands and products. Their margins are quite healthy. Now I will pay Nordstrom Rack or TJ Maxx prices for the same merchandise.

As for the sales model, the gross margins on new cars are usually quite healthy as well. People do not know they "need" a particular vehicle without the commercials, marketing collateral, and sales folks to help them realize it. Most products do not just sell themselves without a significant investment in sales and marketing.

 

[Ty1on]

However I am about to contradict myself here.

With the following products and services there is a large segment of the population that requires education in order to make a purchase.

Life Insurance and Annuites

Automobiles

Stocks, Bonds

Etc.

This is where a qualified salesperson is required. Here on Tug many of us have been educated in the way of Timeshare. So in essence we feel at home buying resales sight unseen.

If you understand how Life Insurance works you don't need to be educated in Life and Annuities. There are ways to purchase these products using a self service model. Same goes for Stocks, and Bonds.

Automobiles are still locked into the dealer/Salesman model unfortunately due to Dealer pressure at the state legislature.

"AND THE BEAT GOES ON"

I think the prime challenge is that timeshares have to be sold, not bought. People seek out a bottle of milk, a TV, a car, a house, even a hotel rental. Timeshare, however, beyond education, requires that the salesman motivate the buyer to the buy decision. In order to do that, he has to get the potential buyer seated in front of him. In order to do that, he has to offer enticements of reward to the sucker buyer. Even if a lot of shady conmen gave the industry a bad reputation, the reward presentation model is ubiquitous for a reason--It works.

For validation of this, consider how many victims don't find out they could have bought their $20K timeshare for $2K until AFTER they purchased. This tells me that they had no intention of purchasing, even after scheduling a presentation (if it was in advance). Ho much time does the average consumer spend researching their purchase of a car, house or computer? Many even spend a great deal of time researching a hotel rental to find the best combination of price and reviews.

My read from this is that the average victim has no intention of buying the timeshare when he takes his seat.

 

[billymach4]

I think the prime challenge is that timeshares have to be sold, not bought. People seek out a bottle of milk, a TV, a car, a house, even a hotel rental. Timeshare, however, beyond education, requires that the salesman motivate the buyer to the buy decision. In order to do that, he has to get the potential buyer seated in front of him. In order to do that, he has to offer enticements of reward to the sucker buyer. Even if a lot of shady conmen gave the industry a bad reputation, the reward presentation model is ubiquitous for a reason--It works.

For validation of this, consider how many victims don't find out they could have bought their $20K timeshare for $2K until AFTER they purchased. This tells me that they had no intention of purchasing, even after scheduling a presentation (if it was in advance). Ho much time does the average consumer spend researching their purchase of a car, house or computer? Many even spend a great deal of time researching a hotel rental to find the best combination of price and reviews.

My read from this is that the average victim has no intention of buying the timeshare when he takes his seat.

The beauty of TUG is that many first time buyers end up with immediately after purchase and immediately rescind.

I was one of those suckers for sure!

But I rescinded!

However there are exceptions where someone may have a reason to intentionally purchase resale. I say go ahead and buy direct. Someone has to take the plunge!

 

[raygo123]

To effect change one thing has to happen on every presentation we must state or views. I have everything documented and am sending a package to the NY attorney general. Right wrong a fool what ever I'm going to at least try to air my point. "It's my money and I want answers now". Ha-ha

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[raygo123]

As far as enticements, first time buyer prices as we
L as volume discount the more u buy...

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[Ty1on]

The beauty of TUG is that many first time buyers end up with immediately after purchase and immediately rescind.

I was one of those suckers for sure!

But I rescinded!

However there are exceptions where someone may have a reason to intentionally purchase resale. I say go ahead and buy direct. Someone has to take the plunge!

I would love to have a Club Wyndham contract, but I am not in the position to pay the going rate for one, even though I see that value in it. However, because, certainly on ebay, the price paid for resale represents a near perfect market value, it only serves to highlight a contract's true value in contrast to the developer cost. If more people researched timeshare before getting pulled into presentations, it would crack the foundation of the timeshare industry. To me, this is a further indication that timeshares have to be sold the way they are. If the developer were to say, "here is my product, buy it or don't," they simply wouldn't sell many intervals, and they would collapse. Then we would have few resales to buy.