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Talk About a Special Assessment! [Orofino, Dillon CO]

bogey21

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Are you hearing any backlash from your fellow owners, both fractional and whole-ownership? Is the majority more in line with your way of thinking?

I haven't the slightest idea. My guess there are a multitude of perspectives out there. Not wanting to complicate the lives of the BoDs I plan to observe, keep my head low and to the extent I can be, be supportive. They are in a heck of a position and don't need any rabble rousing from me.

George
 
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bogey21

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Val Chatelle has a new management company after being managed a short time by Wildernest after Americana went out of business. Americana turned their business over to Wildernest.

Cindy, despite owning and being satisfied with Orofino I would always trade into Val Chatelle whenever I could. My main reason was its proximity to downtown Frisco.
Orofino also went from Americana to Wildernest to a new management company (don't recall their name right now).


George
 

Carol C

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I had to pay a $2K special assessment when Marriott Streamside at Vail Birch was threatened with being kicked out of Marriott if not brought up to a high standard. And at the time I got that bill I was in process of selling another week at same resort, to a TUGger, and I paid half of her special assessment to be nice. (You won't find many TUGgers who would do that once someone had already signed a contract to purchase.) I was out $3K and after the refurb the "resort" got to remain a Marriott but it never got improved trading power...kind of a waste of money really. I think I still own a timeshare in Mexico where I only had to pay m.f. if I was going to use it...and there was once a special assessment of 50 bucks...the lowest I've ever heard of. Now that I'm remembering this resort...I've not heard from them in awhile...but also I've moved a few times since buying there resale. Maybe it's time to reconnect, but then again my RTU is probably near expiration so why put myself back in touch to become prey of their marketers, wink wink? Timeshares are such a mystery as no two are alike...not even if within the same "system". :eek:
 

am1

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How is everyone unsure if the person lived or not?

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He did not or was seriously injured I would imagine insurance would have gone up and the owners would know.
 

rickandcindy23

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I don't know if the board member of Orofino was killed in that accident. We just know it happened from the president of our association.
 

Jason245

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I don't know if the board member of Orofino was killed in that accident. We just know it happened from the president of our association.

I am just imagining the guy jumping up and down and yelling... We haven't raised our rates in 20 years and don't plan on doing anything now just because someone "Claims" that this isn't stable.
 

rickandcindy23

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I am just imagining the guy jumping up and down and yelling... We haven't raised our rates in 20 years and don't plan on doing anything now just because someone "Claims" that this isn't stable.

Delayed maintenance is such an issue with legacy resorts. The owners want the fees to stay low, and they really don't understand where all of the money goes.

When the underlying value of the real estate is worthy of paying a $35K SA, owners don't complain too much. The timeshare weeks are worth literally $0 per week, but the underlying real estate for Orofino is probably $400K or so per unit. The $35K will add to the value of the wholly-owned units.

You see so many owners at various legacy resorts just giving their weeks away on TUG because fees are going up, but they can never top the hotel chains' fees, and those very timeshares trade into the hotel chains, so color me stupid for owning many weeks at legacy resorts.

One of the most common legacy resorts in the Bargain Deals forum on TUG is Foxrun in NC. The fees were about $480 6-7 years ago, and now we are paying over $700 per week. People want a cheap trader, and when the fees go up, people gripe about it, or they stop paying their fees.

At our annual meeting yesterday for Val Chatelle, a few owners did show up, which is rare, and one guy said his week wasn't worth keeping at this point. I told him what I believe but didn't finish what I wanted to say, "Our timeshare has great trading power, and I would match our trading power with anything in the area, yet the new timeshares are going for tens of thousands of dollars, ski weeks for about $120K."

What I should have mentioned:
1. Our timeshare units are worth about $500-600K if sold as a townhouse because they are in Summit County and real estate is very pricey (we are in a really beautiful residential area amongst million-dollar homes). That value alone should attract people to our resort for resale weeks.
2. French Ridge is paying $800 per year for their weeks all year long, and their units are smaller and don't have hot tubs on each deck.
3. The value of a timeshare is in using it. Don't let it sit vacant and trade it, every year, if you must. I understand not wanting to vacation in the same place every year. If you stay in a hotel in Vegas, for example, you should try trading your week for a condo in Vegas. Very nice places, and you could go twice per year for your fees.
 
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Jason245

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Delayed maintenance is such an issue with legacy resorts. The owners want the fees to stay low, and they really don't understand where all of the money goes.

You see so many owners at various legacy resorts just giving their weeks away on TUG because fees are going up, but they can never top the hotel chains' fees, and those very timeshares trade into the hotel chains, so color me stupid for owning many weeks at legacy resorts.

One of the most common legacy resorts in the Bargain Deals forum on TUG is Foxrun in NC. The fees were about $480 6-7 years ago, and now we are paying over $700 per week. People want a cheap trader, and when the fees go up, people gripe about it, or they stop paying their fees.

At our annual meeting yesterday for Val Chatelle, a few owners did show up, which is rare, and one guy said his week wasn't worth keeping at this point. I told him what I believe but didn't finish what I wanted to say, "Our timeshare has great trading power, and I would match our trading power with anything in the area, yet the new timeshares are going for tens of thousands of dollars, ski weeks for about $120K."

What I should have mentioned:
1. Our timeshare units are worth about $500-600K if sold as a townhouse because they are in Summit County and real estate is very pricey (we are in a really beautiful residential area amongst million-dollar homes). That value alone should attract people to our resort for resale weeks.
2. French Ridge is paying $800 per year for their weeks all year long, and their units are smaller and don't have hot tubs on each deck.
3. The value of a timeshare is in using it. Don't let it sit vacant and trade it, every year, if you must. I understand not wanting to vacation in the same place every year. If you stay in a hotel in Vegas, for example, you should try trading your week for a condo in Vegas. Very nice places, and you could go twice per year for your fees.
This is why I own a hgvc. .. In the end I like having deep pockets I can sue for violating fiduciary responsibility(they control the board)..

On top of that you can see the value in the mf you are paying.



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tugnut

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This is why I own a hgvc. .. In the end I like having deep pockets I can sue for violating fiduciary responsibility(they control the board)..

On top of that you can see the value in the mf you are paying.



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Good luck in suing for fiduciary duty LOL
 

tugnut

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Maintenance reserves are just a piggy bank the TS has on the side to raid periodically for frills. It never paid for any major repairs.
Worthless
 

Bwolf

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It is my understanding that Reserves in Florida are required by State Law and are not for frills. At one resort we own there are separate line items for capital improvements, exterior painting, paving, roofing, each appliance, each piece of furniture, interior painting, and more. The list covers one entire 8 1/2 by 11 page. There is no developer at this resort, the owners run things through the Board of Directors and it is a very healthy and financially stable resort.

Major repairs are paid from these reserves.
 

Jason245

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Maintenance reserves are just a piggy bank the TS has on the side to raid periodically for frills. It never paid for any major repairs.
Worthless
I suggest you get educated. Your understanding is incorrect.

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vacationhopeful

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When anyone owns a HOME ... KNOWS they should expect a large REPAIR bill for major items... roof, windows, HVAC, updating (like kitchen & bathrooms). When one owns ANYTHING associated with a Home Owner's association ... one can expect an special assessments for unplanned ("unfunded" is the real name) situations.

A $35,000 special assessment for a single family HOME ... that would be roof & siding updating in MY (home ownership) WORLD. And if it was for a structure item ... in this HOA ... with the power of BULK bidding ... it is the cost of owning a single family home.

Yes, it sounds LIKE a lot of money ($35K) as my first professional (salaried) job paid under $10,000 a year. But I, years later and MANY years of home ownership later, think roof & siding of a 1800 sq ft 2 story house; or remodeling and enlarging kitchen with changing of plumbing and electric plus new appliances or adding on a one story 12 by 15 3-season room --- after how many years of ownership? Lifestyles change, things wear out, bad weather does not help ... houses/condos COST MONEY.

And that is why home ownership is generally called a "money pit".
 

Jason245

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When anyone owns a HOME ... KNOWS they should expect a large REPAIR bill for major items... roof, windows, HVAC, updating (like kitchen & bathrooms). When one owns ANYTHING associated with a Home Owner's association ... one can expect an special assessments for unplanned ("unfunded" is the real name) situations.

A $35,000 special assessment for a single family HOME ... that would be roof & siding updating in MY (home ownership) WORLD. And if it was for a structure item ... in this HOA ... with the power of BULK bidding ... it is the cost of owning a single family home.

Yes, it sounds LIKE a lot of money ($35K) as my first professional (salaried) job paid under $10,000 a year. But I, years later and MANY years of home ownership later, think roof & siding of a 1800 sq ft 2 story house; or remodeling and enlarging kitchen with changing of plumbing and electric plus new appliances or adding on a one story 12 by 15 3-season room --- after how many years of ownership? Lifestyles change, things wear out, bad weather does not help ... houses/condos COST MONEY.

And that is why home ownership is generally called a "money pit".
That is why hoas do reserve studies and have owners pay into reserves. That is also why I set aside about 2.5 percent of my homes value every year in a separate account designated for home repairs.

When it comes time for the new roof or hvac. .money will be there.

Boats are money pits..homes are places to live.





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tugnut

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When anyone owns a HOME ... KNOWS they should expect a large REPAIR bill for major items... roof, windows, HVAC, updating (like kitchen & bathrooms). When one owns ANYTHING associated with a Home Owner's association ... one can expect an special assessments for unplanned ("unfunded" is the real name) situations.

A $35,000 special assessment for a single family HOME ... that would be roof & siding updating in MY (home ownership) WORLD. And if it was for a structure item ... in this HOA ... with the power of BULK bidding ... it is the cost of owning a single family home.

Yes, it sounds LIKE a lot of money ($35K) as my first professional (salaried) job paid under $10,000 a year. But I, years later and MANY years of home ownership later, think roof & siding of a 1800 sq ft 2 story house; or remodeling and enlarging kitchen with changing of plumbing and electric plus new appliances or adding on a one story 12 by 15 3-season room --- after how many years of ownership? Lifestyles change, things wear out, bad weather does not help ... houses/condos COST MONEY.

And that is why home ownership is generally called a "money pit".
Of course you had a Maintenance fund reserve that you had saved just for this didn't you?
I've seen the same thing but it offered the opportunity to forgo the costs and sell the property. This options are not available in the TS financial sewer.
 

PigsDad

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I suggest you get educated. Your understanding is incorrect.

Jason, your response was great. I wanted to post a single word response that was another term for bovine excrement. ;)

Kurt
 

bogey21

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Maintenance reserves are just a piggy bank the TS has on the side to raid periodically for frills. It never paid for any major repairs.
Worthless

Exactly why I prefer little in reserves and paying Special Assessments that are for specific needs. I understand most will not agree with me here but it is how I feel.

George
 

Jason245

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And you guys need to get your heads out of the sand.

My TS HOA has Millions sitting in reserves right now. You know what they are in process of doing right now? Redoing Doors, I believe (from what I read) BBQ pits, and a number of other interior renovations. They are consistently ranked very highly from all sources (HGVC, RCI, TUG reviews), and while I have yet to stay there, by all accounts, I have yet to hear of a single maintenance issue or quality of property issu.

Do you know what my current Special assessment is for that stuff? $0

Do I pay more then some of the independents... of course I do, but at the end of the day, I prefer to own a high quality well maintained place where, while it is possible that a special assessment could come, it is highly improbable. Furthermore, those deep pockets are important. In florida I have first hand experience with a HOA where the president forged checks and stole almost $200k before being caught. While insurance covered $100k of the loss, the association has no hope of ever recovering the other 100k. A Deep pocket org like HGVC would be on the hook if any crap like that occurred.
 

tugnut

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My TS HOA has Millions sitting in reserves right now. You know what they are in process of doing right now? Redoing Doors, I believe (from what I read) BBQ pits, and a number of other interior renovations. They are consistently ranked very highly from all sources (HGVC, RCI, TUG reviews), and while I have yet to stay there, by all accounts, I have yet to hear of a single maintenance issue or quality of property issu.

Do you know what my current Special assessment is for that stuff? $0

Do I pay more then some of the independents... of course I do, but at the end of the day, I prefer to own a high quality well maintained place where, while it is possible that a special assessment could come, it is highly improbable. Furthermore, those deep pockets are important. In florida I have first hand experience with a HOA where the president forged checks and stole almost $200k before being caught. While insurance covered $100k of the loss, the association has no hope of ever recovering the other 100k. A Deep pocket org like HGVC would be on the hook if any crap like that occurred.
You are welcome to overpay anything you wish. You are right in the TS roundhouse. They expect everyone to be that gullible.
 

Jason245

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You are welcome to overpay anything you wish. You are right in the TS roundhouse. They expect everyone to be that gullible.

I am confused. Are you questioning the Reserve study? or the annual report?

I read the annual report in detail, I look at the budget for filler, and fully understand the forcasting/modeling of running multi million to billion dollar businesses.

Like everything else, you have a choice, as they say an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. You might be saving 50 bucks a year on MF and in the end have to dish out the equivalent of 70 bucks a year in MF in a one time special assessment, in the interim, your property becomes less attractive and desirable.

Call me a sucker, or an idiot if you like, but I would rather be the guy saying "it looks like that deck is going to need to be replaced in 10 years so we should start saving now for it" instead of the guy jumping up and down on a rotted out deck with lose screws and rusted out support beams yelling, "look people can still walk on it with no problems, lets wait another year"
 

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... Call me a sucker, or an idiot if you like ...

<with my moderator crown on> Or how about, let's not continue down this road of insulting those with whom we disagree? Instead please remember the TUG Posting Rules related to being courteous.

<minus the crown> It's obvious that some owners prefer one method of collections for certain major maintenance projects while other owners prefer another. There's nothing wrong with having a preference, and nothing wrong with a resort doing either as long as owners are aware of the method in play and it complies with mandates.

There's definitely something wrong with the insinuation that it's impossible for a resort manager to correctly project a reasonable maintenance timetable and a healthy reserve fund to cover it.

I will just never understand why people who have such an obvious disdain for timeshare developers/managers own timeshares! And why they think that every timeshare owner who doesn't share that disdain is uninformed or ignorant. It boggles the mind.
 

SueDonJ

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In the case of Special Assessments where reserves haven't been collected to cover a maintenance issue come due, what happens in the event that a significant number of owners don't have the cash on hand and can't get it? I'm assuming that the owner's usage ability is suspended while an account is in arrears but that doesn't speak to who pays the SA, and it must be considered that the entire amount of the SA is necessary to go forward with the maintenance issue.

The MF's for non-performing intervals are spread among all of the other owners as stipulated in the governing docs. Does the same thing happen with unpaid SA's?
 

PigsDad

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Maintenance reserves are just a piggy bank the TS has on the side to raid periodically for frills. It never paid for any major repairs.
Worthless

Exactly why I prefer little in reserves and paying Special Assessments that are for specific needs. I understand most will not agree with me here but it is how I feel.

George

Just curious -- do either of you have any specific, documented cases you can point us to where the TS management raided the reserves for "frills", as tugnut stated? HOAs and their management companies legally need to document and make public their books, so if this is happening, it should be easy to point to a case, correct?

Also a question for you, Bogey: Preferring a SA over funding reserves is fine if the ownership was stable, but how do you feel that is fair to all owners when it is just the luck of the draw when the SAs occur? For example, owner A has owned for 15 years and has benefitted from lower MFs for all those years. Owner B has owned for 1 year, and then a large SA occurs because the management wasn't funding the reserves. Is it "fair" for both owners to be on the hook for the same amount? Please explain why.

Kurt
 

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Your example makes a valid point. On the other hand many things in life are unfair and we just have to deal with them. Note that when I expressed my preference for low MFs and SAs when necessary I acknowledged that many would disagree.

George
 
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