Suze Orman's response

[topcop400]

I think the root of the problem is that timeshare ownership is too often evaluated for its investment potential (which is typically negative) when it should instead be evaluated for its money saving potential (which may be positive if the purchase is made carefully).

Excellent point Dave.

 

[MLC]

I have a friend who has always said that if she could time her last breathe to her last dollar, she would.

My mother worked hard and saved most of it, and her heirs are grateful for the mortgage and college bills her estate paid, but I would have rather seen her enjoy more of it while she lived.

Sheila

Excellant words of advice. When it is all said and you are on your death bed I do not think anyone would say I wish I worked more.

 

[littlestar]

We use our timeshares to control the cost of our vacations. We don't consider it an investment.

I consider the timeshares we own a money saving tool for taking vacations.

If the "masses" ever figured it out, the opportunities wouldn't be so plentiful. I say let the "experts" down it.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

We use our timeshares to control the cost of our vacations. We don't consider it an investment.

I consider the timeshares we own a money saving tool for taking vacations.

If the "masses" ever figured it out, the opportunities wouldn't be so plentiful. I say let the "experts" down it.

Interesting point.....I agree!

TS is not for STUPID or below average intelligence people....they get ripped off by a developer or eBay and can't figure out how to trade weeks and/or maximize their usage.

However, TS is a brilliant concept if you "Buy Smart", "Trade Smart", "Plan Smart", "Use Smart" and then "Sell Smart"....

The key ingredient is just act "Smart"

 

[trice01]

Let's Be Honest

Mass media financial advice is designed to be generic and fit common, normal circumstances. The primary exposure of the public to timeshares is through developer sales. In its current form, developer timeshare is a grossly overpriced product designed to be deceptively marketed by unscrupulous people to the most vulnerable customer. Under those conditions, can you blame a financial advisor for telling people to avoid them? Developers do their best to discourage the secondary market, and have the blessing of RCI to do so. If you don't believe it, get ahold of a copy of the magazine RCI publishes for resort management. I have read articles in it where RCI badmouths resellers and provides tips on how developers can keep their customers buying direct. It is an incestuous relationship.
We who have bought resale have profited from the mistakes of poor folks who got victimized by developers. When we think of the image of timeshare, let's compare it to a car. How would you feel if someone told you that a Porsche was a great car, but never buy a new one, because they lose 75% of their value going out the door and the salesmen and management are all crooks? I think we'd run like bunnies from it.
I have a number of timeshares, and I enjoy them all. However, the only ones I feel comfortable with after my experience are the small resorts that are long beyond the developer/sales phase and are being run for the owners. As for the general business, timeshare has earned the reputation it has.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

We who have bought resale have profited from the mistakes of poor folks who got victimized by developers. As for the general business, timeshare has earned the reputation it has.

Ahhhhh...the secret recipe behind the success of TUG!

 

[rickandcindy23]

The best word is probably not vulnerable.

There are little nuances of negativity on various threads that make me suspicious that some users are not who they appear. The Timeshare Relief thread was obviously being redirected by the negative people of that company. Some are not so blatantly posting but may be the same group.

I guess I am trying to warn those who love timeshare and think it works should consider that new timeshare owners, that are already past their rescission periods, may come to these threads and feel foolish for being "vulnerable" and may walk away from their purchases as a result. We don't want that for the uninformed. So let's keep this as positive as we can and provide real "solutions." We can help those who have a timeshare and cannot seem to get their exchanges or are having other issues that keep them from enjoying their ownerships. That is what we do, as Bill suggests here.

While I agree timeshare developers have a deserved reputation, I would have to say it goes hand in hand with the current, prevailing notion that if you don't want to deal with it, walk away and suffer the consequences. It is amazing how many people think that maintenance fees are optional and are at the bottom of the list when they sit down to pay their bills. When the attorney the association pays to collect on these debts comes to call, these foolhardy people are suprised.

If faced with the possibility of have our credit ruined or paying our debts, we choose to pay. We were not vulnerable when we bought our first timeshare from a developer. We were impressed with the actual place we purchased and chose it over spending our week of vacation at home every year. We had three small children and were only 26 and loved the idea of a unit that was big enough for all of us. When the week turned out to be something of value for trading into Southern California, Utah and Washington into equally nice units, we were thrilled. We used our week because we made a commitment and wanted to see if the hype was true. It was true! The exchange systems work great! Our first purchase was 25 years ago.


Suze Orman, Tom Martino or any other consumer advocate is going to tell you to honor your commitments and protect your credit, so use it to the best of your ability and do not whine about the cost. You signed the papers and had a rescission period but chose to keep your purchase, so make the best of it. You have to go on vacation sometime and you have lodging covered.

Vulnerable is different than uninformed. Since the car analogy fits, I recently saw a statistic having to do with car owners who will stop making their payments when their cars are not running. Same thing here. If it doesn't work, some just stop paying and that will ruin your credit. Then try to go out and buy that Porsche.

 

[trice01]

Ok...........

I can understand your insinuation about hidden identities and agendas, as that is not a new phenomenon here on TUG. Years ago I unearthed a poster pumping SA timeshares who was a silent partner in one of the resorts. But I can assure you that I have been a poster here for a number of years, albiet much less active than in the past.
I agree that TUG should be kept positive in dispensing advice on wisely buying and using timeshares. It has been invaluable to me in that regard. When it comes to discussing the ethics and practices of the industry, school's out as far as I am concerned.
I used the term "vulnerable" deliberately. To be frank, I have clearly witnessed timeshare marketers deliberately target people whose mental capabilities are clearly in decline, or who are uneducated and unsophisticated. Sharply honed deal analysis is not going to help them much.
I can't buy the recission argument completely, either. I have attended a number of timeshare presentations, and in every single one, the sales person told a number of significant lies. However, one would not know that those representations were lies until long after the recission period had passed, so that is not a remedy.
I'll repeat- I do own timeshares, and I do enjoy them a lot. And I would love to see a vibrant market where I could sell my excess for a fair price. Maybe what I resent is that developers have poisoned the image of timeshare so badly that we regularly see timeshares for sale on eBay and other venues that cannot even get a $1 bid, including mine. Maybe the other thing that bothers me is knowing that the bargains I've gotten were the remains of someone elses' catastrophe. That's a pretty hollow victory for me, and I feel slimy sometimes continuing to do business with the corporate developers that I know full well continue to victimize people- with a smile on their face.

 

[rickandcindy23]

There are deals out there, no doubt. I am definitely suspicious of many of the posts that have been made of late by several posters, aside from the Timeshare Relief thread.

Yes, there are timeshares that just sit on ebay for $1.00 for now, but run that ad on redweek and ask $200, you will sell it. I believe this wholeheartedly. I was going to sell my blue week and listed it for $200 on two different sites and had lots of interest, more than you can probably even believe because people are so brainwashed here on TUG because they truly believe a blue or green week is not even worth $1.00. But it is worth more than that, even though Spence will probably jump in and argue. Spence uses the most frequented site for sales and rentals: www.vacationtimesharerentals.com The site is free to list and I guarantee that if Spence listed any blue or green week he has for $200, he will get offers and inquiries.

By the way, our Foster son, Kimeul, wanted the week that we were giving away, so we gave it to him and our kids were jealous. I thought that was strange, since we own three red weeks at the same resort.

Knowing that the average person has no clue about timeshare, I understand a financial advisor wanting to warn people from them.

 

[talkamotta]

I dont know how any one person can say if something someone else buys is a good investment.

For example: for people who buy Marriott resorts from Marriott. (I wouldnt do this but my coworker does). I think he is rediculous, but he gets a big charge out of saying "Im a multi week Marriott owner and he also likes using his points through the Marriott system, etc. He said he has his personal vacation planner. I dont own any Marriotts but have stayed in many of thier resorts (all very nice), dont get the point program or my personal planner but I have an extra $75K to buy airline tickets, food and fun with. Bottom line is it works for both of us.

I know we can give advice but what we are really doing, at least on TUG is we try to educate others on thier options or choices.

As far as using the Entertainment book as an example. I buy those books and it makes me use those restaurants, etc. Its a win win for the charity group I bought them from, the restaurant and me. This is how timesharing works for me. I bought them, didnt know exactly how I would use them and even that plan has changed. But like the sales staff says "It makes you vacation."

For myself, I couldnt afford to travel the way I do without timeshares and TUG. TUG and all the people here have made a huge difference in my life. Using Costco or other codes for rentals, knowing how to get FF for air fare. Knowing which restaurants to eat at. The list just keeps growing. I DO GET A HUGE RETURN FOR MY VACATIONING DOLLAR.

The real loosers are the ones that buy a timeshare and never learns how to use it. Then after a couple of years, gives it away. In that case she is correct.

 

[trice01]

Rick&Cindy, et al

Sorry I stumbled into a thread not knowing about the Timeshare Relief saga. I had not read that one until today. Can't blame you for being pissed and suspicious. I hate shills who invade honest message boards just to play head games with the other posters, and maybe make a buck too.
I am also mightily tired of the several times a week long distance calls I get from broker/scammers offering to sell my timeshare. Makes one feel between a rock and a hard place- the developer scammers or the boiler room resale scammers. Ouch.
Looking forward to getting over my irritation and talking again to the people here who are just enjoying their timeshares and their lives. Thanks.

 

[Carol C]

I bought my DVC points for about $65pp in 2000 and can easily sell for $80pp.

Hey Suze....who's your daddy now?

Mr. Ed? :ignore:

 

[Steamboat Bill]

Mr. Ed? :ignore:

I am not sure what this means?

 

[icydog]

There are deals out there, no doubt. I am definitely suspicious of many of the posts that have been made of late by several posters, aside from the Timeshare Relief thread.

Yes, there are timeshares that just sit on ebay for $1.00 for now, but run that ad on redweek and ask $200, you will sell it. I believe this wholeheartedly. I was going to sell my blue week and listed it for $200 on two different sites and had lots of interest, more than you can probably even believe because people are so brainwashed here on TUG because they truly believe a blue or green week is not even worth $1.00. But it is worth more than that, even though Spence will probably jump in and argue. Spence uses the most frequented site for sales and rentals: www.vacationtimesharerentals.com The site is free to list and I guarantee that if Spence listed any blue or green week he has for $200, he will get offers and inquiries.

By the way, our Foster son, Kimeul, wanted the week that we were giving away, so we gave it to him and our kids were jealous. I thought that was strange, since we own three red weeks at the same resort.

Knowing that the average person has no clue about timeshare, I understand a financial advisor wanting to warn people from them.

Its funny you mention this company. This week I got an email from a woman who represented a couple who wanted to rent the week I had for sale on Tug. She said they would rent it for this year, if we could come to terms, and would later pay me $9000 for the week if they liked it. All I had to do was to pay a fee of $499 for them to get the paperwork started. I went to their website and from there I kept backtracking until I wound up on another version of www.vacationtimesharerentals.com. Yes, of course, it had a different name but it was the same company. I wrote the woman back that I was not falling for her line because I know a little something about timesharing, and the ploys involved with getting people to pay upfront money to list a less than desirable timeshare for a lot of money, only to languish on their website unnoticed for years was extemely objectionable.. The timeshare I am selling on tug is an inexpensive Canadian ski week which is probably worth around $2K. Here she was telling me that there were folks dying to buy it for $9k. I told her I felt sorry for all the other folks who didn't know her company, and who were going to be bilked out of $500 by the likes of her. For myself, I resent that I was contacted by this company and here I am on Tug saying so. Also, if anyone would like me to copy that letter here on tug I will do so. It is not inflamatory to do so, it is a fact that I was being bilked, or at least they tried.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Marylyn, I understand that some other companies advertise on these sites. But truly, that site is free to list, if you choose to list your week without paying. There are other ways to list on that site, but the free listings are just that. If you do a search on Google or Yahoo, it comes up in the top five with just about any words I put in my search, as they relate to timeshare rentals or sales.

As far as the scammer who called you? She is not to be believed, even though somehow you connected into the above site through hers. I have no idea how that came about. I do know that several websites are listed on the site for listing timeshare, which are paid advertisers on their site. TUG has paid advertisers on this site as well that I would NEVER list with, including Vacation Register. We have to warn people away from such adverisers.

I also know you can pay (VTR) them a commission after your week sells, if you would rather not deal with any of the details. It is your choice. but I have had fewer scam emails from that site than from TUG or My Resort Network. The absolute worst was Timesharing Today, which was surprising.

Give the site a try for free, if you are trying to rent or sell your week. You really have nothing to lose.

 

[icydog]

Marylyn, I understand that some other companies advertise on these sites. But truly, that site is free to list, if you choose to list your week without paying. There are other ways to list on that site, but the free listings are just that. If you do a search on Google or Yahoo, it comes up in the top five with just about any words I put in my search, as they relate to timeshare rentals or sales.

As far as the scammer who called you? She is not to be believed, even though somehow you connected into the above site through hers. I have no idea how that came about. I do know that several websites are listed on the site for listing timeshare, which are paid advertisers on their site. TUG has paid advertisers on this site as well that I would NEVER list with, including Vacation Register. We have to warn people away from such adverisers.

I also know you can pay (VTR) them a commission after your week sells, if you would rather not deal with any of the details. It is your choice. but I have had fewer scam emails from that site than from TUG or My Resort Network. The absolute worst was Timesharing Today, which was surprising.

Give the site a try for free, if you are trying to rent or sell your week. You really have nothing to lose.

Is the site www.vacationtimesharerentals.com the same as Vacation Register?

As to the unbelievable scam offer, you think the woman who wrote to me wasn't a part of their (VTR) site but was mearly using it as a jumping off point. Very interesting indeed. Wasn't Vacation Register the company Ed McMann used to tout on TV?

Thanks for all your help. Once again you have been a wonderful source of information.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Vacation Register is not related in any way that I know of to www.vacationtimesharerentals.com Ed McMahon does advertise for Vacation Register and because it is an advertiser on TUG, I contacted them to possibly sell my week, which brought a plethora of scam calls from many, many companies in the beginning. All are upfront fee companies. It turned out that many sites are very closely related to that particular one. I don't understand why these companies are still operating legally because they should be put out of business.

 

[icydog]

Vacation Register is not related in any way that I know of to www.vacationtimesharerentals.com Ed McMahon does advertise for Vacation Register and because it is an advertiser on TUG, I contacted them to possibly sell my week, which brought a plethora of scam calls from many, many companies in the beginning. All are upfront fee companies. It turned out that many sites are very closely related to that particular one. I don't understand why these companies are still operating legally because they should be put out of business.

Thanks for the explanation and for the correct spelling of Ed McMahon I guess I never looked carefully at the old Tonight Show opening credits:zzz:

 

[Carol C]

I am not sure what this means?

Ed MacMahon. Sorry, I meant to "quote" from the other posting, not yours.