Super fast transfer with Legal Timeshare Transfers

[Carolinian]

Recording does nothing of the sort. For the recording fee, they do little more than to see if it is notarized. The staff of the Register of Deeds are not professionally qualified to review the deed to any great extent. I have seen many recorded deeds from scofflaw closing companies in North Carolina which are not valid to pass title and often contain other defects.

As long as nobody checks closely, these landmines may go undisturbed for a while or they may go off. How would you like to discover down the road that a timeshare you thought you had deeded away was still yours because an invalid deed had been recorded and the person you thought now owned it had walked away due to a looming SA, and that was now suddenly your responsibility, along with say some back M/F's?

I've seen a few threads now mentioning about the legal recording of the
Hawaii deeds but I haven't heard of any reports of problems. If the deed gets
Recorded I'm not going to worry about it. The state should do whatever
Verification before it gets recorded. I don't think this is an issue at all.

 

[DeniseM]

This company uses ''Legal'' in their name in a purely Orwellian sense. The described transaction is in Hawaii which is an attorney state, it which it is ILLEGAL for a non-attorney to prepare a deed unless they are a party to it, and fraudulently listing one of them (buyer or seller) as the preparer on the face of the deed does not do the trick.

Just to clarify - The name of the preparer is not listed on Hawaiian deeds.

Therefore, the state of Hawaii has no idea who prepares the deeds they receive. So, if they do require an attorney to prepare the deed, how would they ever enforce it? If they intend to enforce it - wouldn't they require the info. to be listed on the deed?

 

[Carolinian]

There is a document preparation company, that unlike ''Legal'' Timeshare Transfer, advertises on TUG, called Just Deeds, whose prices are competive with ''Legal'' and which apparently does use lawyers in all states to do the deeds. Why use a jackleg when you can get a professional for the same price?

I could say I am shocked that an attorney would make such an absurd statement based on an assumption. If he had bothered to look up Hawaii law, he would have discovered he was wrong. But I guess his advise was worth what you paid for it.

Some attorneys will do and say things that are surprising. I recall one incident at the resort where I was on the board, with a Tennessee attorney who was not licensed in North Carolina preparing and recording a deed for a week at our North Carolina timeshare that was invalid to pass title under NC law. Real property law is state specific. We helped the buyer pressure the attorney to have a valid deed prepared by someone who was properly licensed and knew what they were doing. If he had refused, we would have helped the buyer file complaints with both the North Carolina and Tennessee Bar. That buyer got lucky as our HOA secretary had managed to learn some of the things to look out for on deeds, and we had two NC attorneys on the HOA board at the time. Most resorts would likely not even have noticed the problem.

rrlongwell - Legal Timeshare Transfer does not handle settlements or escrow - nor do they claim to. They are a document preparation company and they simply prepare and mail the deed - that's it.

Since this was a free timeshare, I certainly would NOT spend my hard earned money to consult with an attorney in Hawaii. YMMV

I did ask a friend who is an attorney and this is what he said: "Since the State of Hawaii does not require the preparer's name to be listed on the deed, the State of Hawaii does not know, and apparently does not care, who prepares the deed."

This is my personal opinion and does not reflect the official position of TUG.

Off-topic - why are you still showing as a guest? I thought we fixed that?

 

[Carolinian]

Just to clarify - The name of the preparer is not listed on Hawaiian deeds.

Therefore, the state of Hawaii has no idea who prepares the deeds they receive. So, if they do require an attorney to prepare the deed, how would they ever enforce it? If they intend to enforce it - wouldn't they require the info. to be listed on the deed?

Until recent years, the preparer's name was not required to be on North Carolina deeds, but Unauthorized Practice of Laws provisions in the statutes were still enforced. Of course, it generally required someone filing a complaint. Someone concluded that requiring that information on the face of the deeds would improve enforcement, so the law was changed to require that.

 

[DeniseM]

Why use a jackleg when you can get a professional for the same price?

1. According to your definition, anyone who isn't an attorney and prepares deeds is a "jackleg," but in reality, only 7-9 states require you to use an attorney.

2. Personally, I much prefer the personal service of a small company like Legal Timeshare Transfer.

3. LTT has outstanding reviews on TUG.

4. Personally, I like LTT because they are not in bed with the PCC's and upfront fee companies - in fact they get most of their business from TUG.

5. Preparing a deed involves a clerk sitting down at a computer and filling out a template - regardless of whether the clerk works for a deed preparation company, or a large company where the deeds are "overseen" by an attorney. Either way - it's the clerk who either does a good job, or a poor job of it.

6. Personally, I support the little guy, and when the attorneys and big closing companies gang up on one of them - especially another TUG member, it ticks me off.

This is just my personal opinion and does not reflect the official position of TUG.

 

[DeniseM]

Until recent years, the preparer's name was not required to be on North Carolina deeds, but Unauthorized Practice of Laws provisions in the statutes were still enforced. Of course, it generally required someone filing a complaint. Someone concluded that requiring that information on the face of the deeds would improve enforcement, so the law was changed to require that.

And if that every happens in Hawaii, I will definitely take it into consideration, but right now, Hawaii doesn't know or care who prepares the timeshare deeds recorded in Hawaii....

 

[Beefnot]

This company uses ''Legal'' in their name in a purely Orwellian sense. The described transaction is in Hawaii which is an attorney state, it which it is ILLEGAL for a non-attorney to prepare a deed unless they are a party to it, and fraudulently listing one of them (buyer or seller) as the preparer on the face of the deed does not do the trick.

Do you know of a link to the Hawaii statute regarding the attorney requirement for deed preparation?

 

[Beefnot]

Below is some info I found at americanbar.org. Some conflicting perspective within the state's own judicial vs. legislative interpretations of the "practice of law".

http://www.americanbar.org/content/...model-def/model_def_statutes.authcheckdam.pdf
Fought & Co., Inc. v. Steel Engineering and Erection, Inc., 951 P.2d 487 (Hawaii 1998)
In drafting the statutes, the legislature expressly declined to adopt a formal definition of the term "practice of law," noting that "[a]ttempts to define the practice of law in terms of enumerating the specific types of services that come within the phrase are fruitless because new developments in society, whether legislative, social, or scientific in nature, continually create new concepts and new legal problems." Sen. Stand. Comm. Rep. No. 700, in 1955 Senate Journal, at 661; Hse. Stand. Comm. Rep. No. 612, in 1955 House Journal at 783. The legislature recognized that the practice of law is not limited to appearing before the courts. It consists, among other things of the giving of advice, the preparation of any document or the rendition of any service to a third party affecting the legal rights ... of such party, where such advice, drafting or rendition of service requires the use of any degree of legal knowledge, skill or advocacy.
Sen. Stand. Comm. Rep. No. 700, in 1955 Senate Journal. at 661 (emphasis added); see also Hse. Stand. Comm. Rep. No. 612, in 1955 House Journal, at 783.
Similarly, while it has explored the concept's dimensions, this court has never formally defined the term "practice of law."

 

[Beefnot]

I have skimmed "the state of Hawaii's Rules of Land Court" and do not see any requirement for a state-licensed lawyer as the only acceptable power of attorney.

http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/court_rules/rules/rlc.htm#Rule 64

 

[slip]

Again, no one has given an example of any one having a problem. Your assuming that these
"jackleg" company's are making a mistake and there will be a future problem.
I'm not worried about this at all. An attorney can make a mistake just like
anyone else. As Denise says, it's not on the deed who did the prep. If the state sees an issue with the way things are, they will make a change.

If there is a special assessment after I deeded away the property, I'm not
worried about someone saying it's still mine. Sometimes people worry just to
worry. There's probably less chance of that happening than me winning the
lottery.:rofl:

My father bought a house in Wisconsin about 40 years ago. During the deed
transfer, an error was found in the deed. The error was made by another
attorney 15 years before during another transfer. The error was corrected no
problems.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I Resemble That Remark.

I'm not worried about this at all.

Same here.

We're talking el freebo & el cheapo timeshare deeds worth a couple of hundred dollars tops.

That's a risk I can afford.

So far, so good.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Renny30]

The documents I received don't list LTT on it. Just the seller and I, so who would know show prepared it.

I'm counting down the days!

Denise - Did you already own Wyndham points?

 

[RX8]

As long as nobody checks closely, these landmines may go undisturbed for a while or they may go off. How would you like to discover down the road that a timeshare you thought you had deeded away was still yours because an invalid deed had been recorded and the person you thought now owned it had walked away due to a looming SA, and that was now suddenly your responsibility, along with say some back M/F's?

Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight.

Quote by Benjamin Franklin

 

[rrlongwell]

Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight.

Quote by Benjamin Franklin

Without commenting on the issues related to the business identified in this thread and based on personal experience it is always better to deal with licensed professionals in the state that the resort is in. Much cheaper that way in the long run, in my experience. What is the difference in up front costs? May 50 to 150 dollars for the deed? Well worth it. This is especially important in the case of Wyndham Vacation Resort timeshares. Wyndham reserved the right to have final say on whether a knew owner would be reconized, in my case.

 

[LisaH]

Wyndham has accepted the deed transfer prepared by LTT shortly after the deed was recorded in my case.
Look, we all have our own opinion. You are entitled to choose whoever you feel comfortable to do business with. LTT worked out great for me and my buyer. I will continue to use them and recommend them.

 

[richardm]

It's important to remember that Tug membership does not "validate" anyone. There is no "application" process to belong to Tug, and there is no process wherein Tug ownership or employees verify the business process or legality of any Tug member..

Another Tug member that moderators were always "recommending" was Faith Closing Services. Another gentleman that appeared to be a "good option" for closings, but who lacked both the professionalism and infrastructure to protect the clients he serviced.. As a result- there are numerous consumers who have lost thousands of dollars as a result of trusting the recommendations of a few outspoken TUG moderators.

 

[Beefnot]

What's the story on Faith Closing Services? I cannot locate anything on TUG about them or the damage they caused.

 

[Beefnot]

Another Tug member that moderators were always "recommending" was Faith Closing Services. Another gentleman that appeared to be a "good option" for closings, but who lacked both the professionalism and infrastructure to protect the clients he serviced.. As a result- there are numerous consumers who have lost thousands of dollars as a result of trusting the recommendations of a few outspoken TUG moderators.

But I can see the danger in TUG moderators making personal recommendations of any kind given the influence of their position with TUG. Although there may be no legal liability, moderators personally endorsing a particular company can have negative reputational implications for TUG should things go south with the moderator-recommended company.

 

[HatTrick]

I don't know about Legal's timeshare transfer prowess, but I do know they prepare great seafood...

 

[LisaH]

I don't know about Legal's timeshare transfer prowess, but I do know they prepare great seafood...

LOL! Ate there twice in three days while I was in Boston a couple of weeks ago...

Another Tug member that moderators were always "recommending" was Faith Closing Services. Another gentleman that appeared to be a "good option" for closings, but who lacked both the professionalism and infrastructure to protect the clients he serviced.. As a result- there are numerous consumers who have lost thousands of dollars as a result of trusting the recommendations of a few outspoken TUG moderators.

Regarding John Faith's company, I never used it. It's unfortunate that he died suddenly and I'm not even sure if he was licensed to do escrow and hold money for clients. In my case, money (the timeshare payment) never changed hands with LTT. All they did was to prepare deed, send it out for recording and notify the resort. I see very little risk for such services.

 

[TUGBrian]

also to note...moderators are not employees of TUG...they are all 100% volunteers who are also timeshare owners...and have/had participated on the forums for years until choosing to volunteer to maintain the TUG posting guidelines here on the forums.

 

[Beefnot]

also to note...moderators are not employees of TUG...they are all 100% volunteers who are also timeshare owners...and have/had participated on the forums for years until choosing to volunteer to maintain the TUG posting guidelines here on the forums.

Understand, and they do an excellent job. On the other hand, if I interpreted one part of richardm's implications appropriately, it would not be inherently unreasonable that moderators be discouraged from endorsing a timeshare-related organization due to the 'enhanced' nature of their relationship with TUG.

 

[TUGBrian]

people are welcome to make whatever interpretation they wish...doesnt change the fact of the matter =)

 

[richardm]

I believe that there is enough information in this discussion that consumers will at least have the opportunity to make an informed decision on whether or not to use the services advertised herein.

Moderators should not be discouraged from responding to questions where an opinion is requested, or from sharing their personal thoughts and recommendations. The knowledge and expertise of moderators is one of the primary strengths of a social website such as Tug.

However, when a moderator routinely promotes a single private business- or as in this case starts a discussion with the sole intent or promoting that business-I do believe that should behavior be discouraged.

This is especially important in an instance where there are questions as to whether or not the business is operating legally.

I'd much rather see this business be given free banner ads or other such traditional promotional materials that most consumers can readily recognize as advertisements.

However, with that being said- I often have different viewpoints than some of the moderators in this venue. Ultimately it's up to the ownership, moderators and members to determine if this is acceptable behavior.

Based on the comments posted on this thread, I obviously appear to be in the minority on this issue. It's clear that at least for the time being, there are many people who have used this closing service and were very satisfied with the outcome.

I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to at least question the recommendation. There are MANY online forums where this discussion would never have occurred and any negative comments would simply have been deleted as soon as they were posted.

 

[Beefnot]

I believe that there is enough information in this discussion that consumers will at least have the opportunity to make an informed decision on whether or not to use the services advertised herein.

Moderators should not be discouraged from responding to questions where an opinion is requested, or from sharing their personal thoughts and recommendations. The knowledge and expertise of moderators is one of the primary strengths of a social website such as Tug.

However, when a moderator routinely promotes a single private business- or as in this case starts a discussion with the sole intent or promoting that business-I do believe that should behavior be discouraged.

This is especially important in an instance where there are questions as to whether or not the business is operating legally.

I'd much rather see this business be given free banner ads or other such traditional promotional materials that most consumers can readily recognize as advertisements.

However, with that being said- I often have different viewpoints than some of the moderators in this venue. Ultimately it's up to the ownership, moderators and members to determine if this is acceptable behavior.

Based on the comments posted on this thread, I obviously appear to be in the minority on this issue. It's clear that at least for the time being, there are many people who have used this closing service and were very satisfied with the outcome.

I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to at least question the recommendation. There are MANY online forums where this discussion would never have occurred and any negative comments would simply have been deleted as soon as they were posted.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I do see your point of view and agree. Further, I could forsee a scenario (albeit highly unlikely) where TUG could be forced to legally defend itself for the actions/endorsements of its moderators--which could be considered de facto representatives of TUG--if no 'reasonable' attempt was made to curb such actions. I am not an attorney, and only play one on TV, so I could be way wrong. Though as TUGBrian pointed out, doesn't really matter anyway what we think because he calls the shots.