Sister is considering buying one of my Weeks:

[Beefnot]

Since the OP has superior knowledge of the timeshare market, they have an obligation to protect their sister's best interest. YMMV

Obligation? Hmpf, says who? They're blood, they will still love each other regardless.

 

[theo]

Where's the Beef?

What is YOUR problem anyway?

You just have to take things in stride around here...

One with no knowledge, experience or substance to offer (i.e., "no actual beef, only philosophical sizzle") might well choose instead to attack the style of others who do. Gets the post count up, if little else...

As you correctly note however, it's not really a problem. It's easy enough to distinguish wheat from chaff.
If not choosing to even disntinguish, the "ignore" function on User CP can handle that "automatically".

 

[Beefnot]

One with no knowledge, experience or substance to offer (i.e., "no actual beef, only philosophical sizzle") might well choose instead to attack the style of others who do. Gets the post count up, if little else...

As you correctly note however, it's not really a problem. It's easy enough to distinguish wheat from chaff.
If not choosing to even disntinguish, the "ignore" function on User CP can handle that "automatically".

Exactly! Just ignore me. That way you can spin as much tired BS, logic-less comments, and condescending guidance as you'd like, without having to deal with someone who will call you to the carpet on it. Theo has figured out the ignore function like a pro.

Oh, and I know Theo won't see this, but in less than year, I have gained more knowledge and experience than many, if not most, other members in this forum. Actual recent experience, not spinning the same comments about what may have been great guidance five years ago.

 

[vckempson]

I think there are two separate issues here:

1) Have some of the posters been harsh - yes

2) Is this deal "fair" for the OP's sister - no

The fact that some of the posters have not been courteous, does not change the fact that this is not a "fair" deal for the OP's sister, and that is what the OP asked in his/her first post.

In a nutshell, the OP's sister doesn't have the experience to know that this is not a good deal. Since the OP has superior knowledge of the timeshare market, they have an obligation to protect their sister's best interest. YMMV

I can see how some might think this way. But we're all adults here... Maybe not Beefnot but you never know. Anyway, many would find the obligation here is only to be honest about the true market value. If they find a solution that is mutually agreeable, that's their business. If the sibling has a personal motivation and willingness to pay a figure that's greater than market value, and she's aware of that, oh well. Now if the sister falls into some "protected" class, as in elderly or mentally handicapped, that's another story, but there's no eveidence of that here.

I gave an old car of ours to my niece when she got her driver's license. It was worth $2,000. It's not her obligation to protect me from doing something financially stupid. That's for me to figure out. It's not always about the might dollar that we all make it out to be. In fact, with really close families, it's hardly ever about the mighty dollar. Maybe the sister see's how unfare it would be to her sibling to keep paying a morgage on something she takes away for a buck.

Families often feel a sense of shared sacrifice when it comes to finances. Many here allow family the use of their TS's while only expecting the exchange fee be paid. That's not financially fair but many of us do it all the time. Why? Because we can and we love our families. It makes us feel good about sharing what we've been blessed with.

People's values differ and the sense of fairness and duty to family differs from one to another. That doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Oh, well, time to get off my high horse.

 

[Jamerican71]

I think there are two separate issues here:

1) Have some of the posters been harsh - yes

2) Is this deal "fair" for the OP's sister - no

The fact that some of the posters have not been courteous, does not change the fact that this is not a "fair" deal for the OP's sister, and that is what the OP asked in his/her first post.

In a nutshell, the OP's sister doesn't have the experience to know that this is not a good deal. Since the OP has superior knowledge of the timeshare market, they have an obligation to protect their sister's best interest. YMMV

I asked "fair for my sister AND I" It might not be a good deal financially but it's still a good deal regardless....whatever the deal is. I can easily protect her best interest but what about mine?

 

[markel]

I asked "fair for my sister AND I" It might not be a good deal financially but it's still a good deal regardless....whatever the deal is. I can easily protect her best interest but what about mine?

You lost your best interest when you bought these weeks retail.

 

[Larry]

My sister has been sent links to this post and as of an hour ago she is still insisting she does not want to do Ebay. I have July 4th and Xmas Week. I understand my weeks are costing way more than their worth (in terms of finances) but the investment in my vacation time with my friends and family has been priceless and I have no regrets on my purchase. My weeks are worth a heck of a lot to me.

I did post here with asking what is fair to both of us and did not expect the onslaught of insults, accusations and assumptions. Who cares though, you all don't know me.

vckempson - Thank you for your thoughtful solution. We have gone through Ebay, redweek and internet searches and we both think this can work.

Another option we came up with is for her to just be the permanent renter of whichever week she wants and pay the maintenance fee which is what she has done in the past. Then after the mortgage is paid off, we discuss a sale based on market value AND personal value.

At this point you have provided full disclosure to your sister and whatever the two of you decide is fair for your circumstances and is all that matters at this point.

Best of luck to both of you if you proceed.

 

[Jamerican71]

You lost your best interest when you bought these weeks retail.

If I could turn back the clock, that is the only thing I would have done differently.

 

[timeos2]

I asked "fair for my sister AND I" It might not be a good deal financially but it's still a good deal regardless....whatever the deal is. I can easily protect her best interest but what about mine?

Your best interest may well be to get out of annual fees and maintain family harmony. Even if this is THE best week OL has it is worth at most $2000 which is being generous. If she pays more than at sometime regardless of what is agreed to now she will resent you for "taking advantage " of her even if now it is her offer. Be fair - take $2000 or less, be done with a bad buy & be happy your fees are being paid & the week used. That approach is not likely to bite you later. Good luck to both of you whatever you agree to.

 

[Beefnot]

I can see how some might think this way. But we're all adults here... Maybe not Beefnot but you never know. Anyway, many would find the obligation here is only to be honest about the true market value. If they find a solution that is mutually agreeable, that's their business. If the sibling has a personal motivation and willingness to pay a figure that's greater than market value, and she's aware of that, oh well. Now if the sister falls into some "protected" class, as in elderly or mentally handicapped, that's another story, but there's no eveidence of that here.

I gave an old car of ours to my niece when she got her driver's license. It was worth $2,000. It's not her obligation to protect me from doing something financially stupid. That's for me to figure out. It's not always about the might dollar that we all make it out to be. In fact, with really close families, it's hardly ever about the mighty dollar. Maybe the sister see's how unfare it would be to her sibling to keep paying a morgage on something she takes away for a buck.

Families often feel a sense of shared sacrifice when it comes to finances. Many here allow family the use of their TS's while only expecting the exchange fee be paid. That's not financially fair but many of us do it all the time. Why? Because we can and we love our families. It makes us feel good about sharing what we've been blessed with.

People's values differ and the sense of fairness and duty to family differs from one to another. That doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Oh, well, time to get off my high horse.

Very well stated. Uh, well, except for that third sentence.

 

[SOS8260456]

Jamerican71,
I think in this type of situation there is no 100% solution that will be fair to both of you. I agree that while timeshares may have no resale value, personal value is a whole different matter. I am sure you didn't purchase the second unit with the sole purpose of providing your sister with a week's vacation cheaply and if you are renting to her at maintenance fee cost or less,then that is what you are doing. But again, this also depends on the rental value. I know when I use our Wyndham points I have a hard time thinking in terms of our actual cost, I end up thinking of what I am giving up in rental income. Many times we will get a great reservation and the deal my husband and I have is that if he can't rent it for XXXX then I can use it. I have very mixed feelings when he does rent the particular reservation out.

As for bargain resales. Sure, there are alot of deals out there,but they take time to find plus if you don't have the experience and knowledge it can be easy to get taken in. Plus a lot of time you are dealing with an unknown seller, even if one purchases from one of the better sellers, there is still the chance that your purchase may be the one that ends up with problems. Alot of the sellers require high closing costs plus repaying maintenance fees, so the final sales price does not tell the whole story. I also didn't notice if your timeshares have a specific unit assigned to them or a specific type of unit. Finding a resale for that specific unit or type might take time which requires patience.

I also see alot of comments all over timeshare boards about not liking your children if leaving them a timeshare. I guess this depends on the timeshare. Right now my graduating HS children hate the idea of family vacations, a few years ago they would jokingly fight over who gets our timeshares. I hope that they get back to where they appreciate all the memories and appreciate that they would not have happened without the timeshares. I wish my parents had left me a prime summer week 3 bedroom oceanfront unit on the NorthEast coastline somewhere, preferably a short drive away.

Good luck in finding a solution that you both can live with.

 

[Jamerican71]

For the person who just sent me a PM - I tried to respond but it says you're over the limit (or something like that):

Here's my edited reply:

Thank you for reaching out. Despite some of the responses I got, I still learned a lot from everybody.

 

[Mel]

The OP asked for a solution that is fair to both parties, and what she gets is judgement instead.

Fairness to the other party (her sister), is informing her that their are other options - it is not lowering your own asking price, or doing the research for her. OP has clearly told her sister about eBay repeatedly, and she chooses not to go that route, for whatever reasons (maybe not wanting to purchase from someone she doesn't know?)

Ultimately the goal is to split the two weeks, so that one can be deeded to her sister. The goal has nothing to do with any renumeration between herself and her sister. In fact, if she simply wanted to gift the second ownership to her sister, she would still have the same questions - the two deeds are tied up in a mortgage on the two weeks.

My solution:

First, figure out what you would expect from your sister if the deeds were not tied together in the mortgage. Have you already agreed on which week you would sell to her, and how much she would pay? If she is willing to split evenly, go with that - yes, she could do better on eBay, but she chooses not to do so, not your problem.

Do you both have enough home equity to open Home Equity Line of Credit to cover your share of the outstanding mortgage? Are you able to obtain any other loans? (or would you be able to pay off your share of the mortgage without a loan?)

If so, you each obtain your HELOC, your sister gifts her portion to you, and you pay off the mortgage. If this is still mortgaged through Orange Lake, you should have done shortly after the second purchase anyway, as your interest rate is likely to be lower).

Once the mortgage is paid off, you quit claim the week in question to your sister. Just be careful writing out the deed - your current deed may include both weeks, and you just want to sell your interest in one. Also, work with Orange Lake, because you are transferring your week to a family member. That will hopefully impact the way she is treated as a purchaser, she should be treated as an original purchaser. While it makes little difference in her rights to use her week, it could have an impact if, once the kids are older, she wants to convert to HIVC points, or do anything else internally. That in itself may make a week purchased from you more valuable than anything she could purchase on eBay.

Finally, ignore that that want to chastise you for coming up with a solution acceptable to both you and your sister. The people on eBay are selling on their own terms - $1 is acceptable to them, and that's their choice. The value of a given week is not predicated only on what a buyer is willing to pay, but on what the seller is willing to accept. Incidentally, the only eBay comparisons that would matter are completed sales for the same holiday weeks.

 

[laura1957]

Great advice - Thank you!

This really is a friendly bunch, truly Since you already discussed all the options with your sister, and if she still is interested - and it sounds as if she is and it is worth it to her (regardless of how much it is actually worth to anyone else) then you have done everything you could to be fair.

 

[Jamerican71]

Jamerican71,
I think in this type of situation there is no 100% solution that will be fair to both of you. I agree that while timeshares may have no resale value, personal value is a whole different matter. I am sure you didn't purchase the second unit with the sole purpose of providing your sister with a week's vacation cheaply and if you are renting to her at maintenance fee cost or less,then that is what you are doing. But again, this also depends on the rental value. I know when I use our Wyndham points I have a hard time thinking in terms of our actual cost, I end up thinking of what I am giving up in rental income. Many times we will get a great reservation and the deal my husband and I have is that if he can't rent it for XXXX then I can use it. I have very mixed feelings when he does rent the particular reservation out.

As for bargain resales. Sure, there are alot of deals out there,but they take time to find plus if you don't have the experience and knowledge it can be easy to get taken in. Plus a lot of time you are dealing with an unknown seller, even if one purchases from one of the better sellers, there is still the chance that your purchase may be the one that ends up with problems. Alot of the sellers require high closing costs plus repaying maintenance fees, so the final sales price does not tell the whole story. I also didn't notice if your timeshares have a specific unit assigned to them or a specific type of unit. Finding a resale for that specific unit or type might take time which requires patience.

I also see alot of comments all over timeshare boards about not liking your children if leaving them a timeshare. I guess this depends on the timeshare. Right now my graduating HS children hate the idea of family vacations, a few years ago they would jokingly fight over who gets our timeshares. I hope that they get back to where they appreciate all the memories and appreciate that they would not have happened without the timeshares. I wish my parents had left me a prime summer week 3 bedroom oceanfront unit on the NorthEast coastline somewhere, preferably a short drive away.

Good luck in finding a solution that you both can live with.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

[Jamerican71]

The OP asked for a solution that is fair to both parties, and what she gets is judgement instead.

Fairness to the other party (her sister), is informing her that their are other options - it is not lowering your own asking price, or doing the research for her. OP has clearly told her sister about eBay repeatedly, and she chooses not to go that route, for whatever reasons (maybe not wanting to purchase from someone she doesn't know?)

Ultimately the goal is to split the two weeks, so that one can be deeded to her sister. The goal has nothing to do with any renumeration between herself and her sister. In fact, if she simply wanted to gift the second ownership to her sister, she would still have the same questions - the two deeds are tied up in a mortgage on the two weeks.

My solution:

First, figure out what you would expect from your sister if the deeds were not tied together in the mortgage. Have you already agreed on which week you would sell to her, and how much she would pay? If she is willing to split evenly, go with that - yes, she could do better on eBay, but she chooses not to do so, not your problem.

Do you both have enough home equity to open Home Equity Line of Credit to cover your share of the outstanding mortgage? Are you able to obtain any other loans? (or would you be able to pay off your share of the mortgage without a loan?)

If so, you each obtain your HELOC, your sister gifts her portion to you, and you pay off the mortgage. If this is still mortgaged through Orange Lake, you should have done shortly after the second purchase anyway, as your interest rate is likely to be lower).

Once the mortgage is paid off, you quit claim the week in question to your sister. Just be careful writing out the deed - your current deed may include both weeks, and you just want to sell your interest in one. Also, work with Orange Lake, because you are transferring your week to a family member. That will hopefully impact the way she is treated as a purchaser, she should be treated as an original purchaser. While it makes little difference in her rights to use her week, it could have an impact if, once the kids are older, she wants to convert to HIVC points, or do anything else internally. That in itself may make a week purchased from you more valuable than anything she could purchase on eBay.

Finally, ignore that that want to chastise you for coming up with a solution acceptable to both you and your sister. The people on eBay are selling on their own terms - $1 is acceptable to them, and that's their choice. The value of a given week is not predicated only on what a buyer is willing to pay, but on what the seller is willing to accept. Incidentally, the only eBay comparisons that would matter are completed sales for the same holiday weeks.

Thanks for all of this - lots of good points.

 

[Jamerican71]

MODERATOR - Can you please lock this thread. Both my sister and I are armed with lots of information and we will make a decision that is fair to both.