Sampler Just Purchased in Arizona

[Talya]

Well, verdict in and as many of you said - they are not allowing me to rescind. In a phone call, a woman said I signed the contract, and they do not go by Arizona laws (rather Nevada laws). So....I own 20,000 Sampler points. What do I do with them? How do I get a few 'nice vacations' out of them?

AMEX is still working with my dispute but I suspect the answer will be the same: I signed the contract that says I cannot rescind.

 

[dlferree]

Hi Talya,

I know it was stated previously that you aren't allowed to use your sampler points for a 2br accommodation. I would double check that. We stayed in a two bedroom at Lake Tahoe in 2015 for 7500 points for a week. We also stayed in a 1br at Capistrano, Ca in 2016 for 7500. There are other places for less points if you prefer to go to those places. We only had 15,000 sampler points so only the two trips, but we enjoyed both locations. Now that you know you won't be able to rescind, you should be able to make good use of the points already purchased.

 

[Talya]

I will never need a 2 br - 1 br or even a studio is fine with me.

 

[Talya]

I am wondering - of all of these places listed that I can go to - which are stand-outs, which should be avoided?

Locations include Arizona (Sedona, Scottsdale) - California (Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, Ramona, Capistrano) - tons in Florida: Celebration, Kissimmee, Ormond Beach, Daytona, Orlando, South Beach, Miami, Miami Beach) - Hawaii (Kauai, Maui, Big Island) - Missouri (Branson) - North Carolina (Kitty Hawk, Sapphire Valley) - Nevada (Las Vegas) - Tennessee (Gatlinburg) - Virginia (Williamsburg, Virginia Beach) - and Mexico (Los Cabos - Hyatt Place).

 

[taffy19]

Well, verdict in and as many of you said - they are not allowing me to rescind. In a phone call, a woman said I signed the contract, and they do not go by Arizona laws (rather Nevada laws). So....I own 20,000 Sampler points. What do I do with them? How do I get a few 'nice vacations' out of them?

AMEX is still working with my dispute but I suspect the answer will be the same: I signed the contract that says I cannot rescind.

Did you send your letter in and then they called you?

Ask them to send that in writing to you and then send your complaint in to the AG in Nevada and let them know that you were told the same lies as the people were in Arizona and ask him if something similar can be done that the AG in Arizona did for the many victims over there. Send the link of what the AG did for the victims in his State and they may investigate.

If you plan to do that then you cannot start planning to use the points so you have to make up your mind what you want to do.

 

[Talya]

Did you send your letter in and then they called you?

Yes - they likely got the letter on Friday - and starting yesterday they have been calling. Today I picked up and the conversation ensued.

Ask them to send that in writing to you

That means I have to call them back. So I do that?

and then send your complaint in to the AG in Nevada and let them know that you were told the same lies as the people were in Arizona and ask him if something similar can be done that the AG in Arizona did for the many victims over there. Send the link of what the AG did for the victims in his State and they may investigate.

I signed a contract that said I could not rescind - that's what she kept saying. Is that the 'same lie'? She said there was no rescind as they operate under Nevada laws (not Arizona). Thing is, I did e-mail the salesman in 3-4 days asking to rescind - he never responded.

If you plan to do that then you cannot start planning to use the points so you have to make up your mind what you want to do.

I can plan to use them at the same time trying to get out of it. Why not?

 

[clifffaith]

I am wondering - of all of these places listed that I can go to - which are stand-outs, which should be avoided?

Locations include Arizona (Sedona, Scottsdale) - California (Lake Tahoe, Palm Springs, Ramona, Capistrano) - tons in Florida: Celebration, Kissimmee, Ormond Beach, Daytona, Orlando, South Beach, Miami, Miami Beach) - Hawaii (Kauai, Maui, Big Island) - Missouri (Branson) - North Carolina (Kitty Hawk, Sapphire Valley) - Nevada (Las Vegas) - Tennessee (Gatlinburg) - Virginia (Williamsburg, Virginia Beach) - and Mexico (Los Cabos - Hyatt Place).

Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui and Sedona Summit are two of our favorites, we go to each every year. I seem to remember rules that said you can't use a sampler for back to back trips, but if that is no longer the case you might spend time on Maui followed by a stay at the Point at Poipu on Kauai. If they dare to pull one of those third rate hotel stays on you, where you then go to the real resort for the update, I'd give them the full force and favor of your disdain during the presentation.

 

[Talya]

Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui and Sedona Summit are two of our favorites, we go to each every year.

Thank you. I am being told on FB that it will be very hard/unlikely that I will be able to book Hawaii with Sampler points - but I will try as I've always wanted to see Maui (I lived on the Big Island and know it pretty well). Next Sedona visit I'd already decided to book at the Summit, so your rec is confirmation for me.

I seem to remember rules that said you can't use a sampler for back to back trips, but if that is no longer the case you might spend time on Maui followed by a stay at the Point at Poipu on Kauai.

Sounds excellent. Thank you for the advice.

If they dare to pull one of those third rate hotel stays on you, where you then go to the real resort for the update, I'd give them the full force and favor of your disdain during the presentation.

Yep.

 

[izzymail]

Hello - I am glad to have found this site and am hoping I hear good news but have a sinking feeling that the sinking feeling I have had since this purchase will never go away.

Will not go into how I could have been so 'stoopid' as to walk straight into this when I was seeing red flags. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I ignored every sound impulse to stop yet proceeded - why? Subliminal tapes? Water tainted? The salesman was young, good looking and very personable? Good grief - I am embarrassed I got taken....but I never had an experience with timeshares and assumed integrity (though flashing lights were going off in my head at innumerable junctures). Okay, rant (and confession) over.....maybe...

I have some last ditch questions, hoping against hope.....

CONTEXT: Five days ago I purchased a Sampler in Arizona for $3,995 (20,000 points, 2 years - told this would give me 3-4 weeks, or 35-40 days of vacation - this was actually written down on a separate piece of paper with the name and personal contact information of the salesperson, even though another salesperson was vehement that this should not be done, the young man did it anyway when the other salesperson was away).

I paid in full, using my Amex Card. No fees. I got a tablet as a 'gift'. Haven't turned it on. "Lifetime benefits" are Club Combo, Flexpoints, Vacation Planner.

In the contract I signed it is stated: "The Sampler membership purchase is not a timeshare purchase and there is NO RIGHT OF RESCISSION, CANCELLATION OR REFUND." (Yeah....stoopid, stoopid, stoopid! )

There is then a sentence regarding purchasers in Nevada not being covered by the Nevada Real Estate Division - however, the salesperson said to me that in Arizona the sale was covered by Real Estate laws. Not sure if this is important.

QUESTIONS: Given the above -

1) Can I cancel this purchase? Regardless of the clause quoted above, do I still have 10 days to rescind this purchase? I have read on-line that a certified letter sent to the DRI address in the contract will effect cancellation - but I am also aware that maybe those people so saying didn't have that limiting clause in their contracts in 2016.

2) If I cannot cancel the contract via a letter to DRI, then can I do the cancellation via my Amex Card? Or do I risk being in default if I go that route? Curiously, charges usually take a while to get posted to my Amex account - but the DRI charge got posted within 3 days. If the charge were still 'pending' (as it normally is with Amex - especially hotel charges) I think I could have supervened and cancelled the charge - not so? I am aware I need to call Amex on this.

3) Am I just screwed like everyone else who made this purchase? No hope....make the best of it....chalk it up as a very expensive lesson (though far from as expensive as it could have been - at least I didn't even consider the 'payment plan' option at 20% interest )

Okay - do I have a prayer of a chance to rescind this? I did e-mail the salesman asking how to cancel (I won't use his phone number - won't). I also e-mailed the resort's General Manager. No response from either.

Many thanks for any responses.

Talya,
I have been lurking on TUG for a couple months, but I had to register just to reply to your post. I had the EXACT same scenario happen back in July, so don't beat yourself up too much! Yes, we were dumb, and yes they were slick and lied and wore us down.

You are correct that we legally have no right to cancel. I called Diamond as soon as I got back from our trip and was told by a representative that it was not possible to cancel. I asked to escalate my request and told the representative about the outright lies that we were told to convince us to sign (which were if fact directly contradicted in the fine print as you mentioned!!). She only directed me to submit an "inquiry" on the website. I asked her why should could not help me (having no faith in the website inquiry) and she supposedly filled out the website inquiry for me and told me she would follow up...
Well I was not too excited about my progress at this point. I immediately took two more actions:

1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund.

2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions.

I received a call back from a Diamond rep soon after, but it was apparently from the website inquiry. She went through all of the standard talking points and basically told me NO very politely. I asked to speak to her supervisor, and was told she would call the next Monday (this was a Saturday). Monday came and went, and no call. I called and emailed the rep again, she said once again the supervisor would call...you get the idea.

About 2 weeks later, I got an call from an entirely different rep/department, telling me she was calling to discuss my Sampler cancellation and refund!! This was right after I received an email from the BBB letting me know that Diamond had responded to my complaint with a simple message stating that they would be reaching out to me to reach a resolution. I am confident that the refund offer was due to the BBB complaint. They actually have an OK score and apparently want to try to keep it up.


I called the rep back, and she went over the refund process. They would, within 2 weeks, FedEx a package with a mutual release agreement. I would then sign and send that back, along with the tablet, and they would process a refund to my credit card within a certain amount of time.


Unfortunately, the story does not end there. The two weeks came and went; no FedEx. I tried to reach the same rep as before, but always got voicemail and no call back. I finally called back to the main number, and eventually got a rep that put me on hold and talked to a "supervisor". I was never transferred, but she told me that the supervisor confirmed that they had discovered that the transaction was in dispute with the credit card company, and "it had already been refunded that way". They said that they were not fighting the dispute and as far as they were concerned it was a done deal.

Well, the dispute is not officially going to be closed out for another week, so I can't definitively tell you that I have successfully won my refund. However, I'm reasonably confident at this point that I will get to keep the money one way or another! I highly recommend the BBB dispute if you have not tried this. Let me know if you have any questions or want to see what I sent my credit card company and/or BBB.

Good luck!!

BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation.

Thanks,

Izzymail

 

[Talya]

Talya,
I have been lurking on TUG for a couple months, but I had to register just to reply to your post. I had the EXACT same scenario happen back in July, so don't beat yourself up too much! Yes, we were dumb, and yes they were slick and lied and wore us down.

You are correct that we legally have no right to cancel. I called Diamond as soon as I got back from our trip and was told by a representative that it was not possible to cancel. I asked to escalate my request and told the representative about the outright lies that we were told to convince us to sign (which were if fact directly contradicted in the fine print as you mentioned!!). She only directed me to submit an "inquiry" on the website. I asked her why should could not help me (having no faith in the website inquiry) and she supposedly filled out the website inquiry for me and told me she would follow up...
Well I was not too excited about my progress at this point. I immediately took two more actions:

1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund.

2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions.

I received a call back from a Diamond rep soon after, but it was apparently from the website inquiry. She went through all of the standard talking points and basically told me NO very politely. I asked to speak to her supervisor, and was told she would call the next Monday (this was a Saturday). Monday came and went, and no call. I called and emailed the rep again, she said once again the supervisor would call...you get the idea.

About 2 weeks later, I got an call from an entirely different rep/department, telling me she was calling to discuss my Sampler cancellation and refund!! This was right after I received an email from the BBB letting me know that Diamond had responded to my complaint with a simple message stating that they would be reaching out to me to reach a resolution. I am confident that the refund offer was due to the BBB complaint. They actually have an OK score and apparently want to try to keep it up.


I called the rep back, and she went over the refund process. They would, within 2 weeks, FedEx a package with a mutual release agreement. I would then sign and send that back, along with the tablet, and they would process a refund to my credit card within a certain amount of time.


Unfortunately, the story does not end there. The two weeks came and went; no FedEx. I tried to reach the same rep as before, but always got voicemail and no call back. I finally called back to the main number, and eventually got a rep that put me on hold and talked to a "supervisor". I was never transferred, but she told me that the supervisor confirmed that they had discovered that the transaction was in dispute with the credit card company, and "it had already been refunded that way". They said that they were not fighting the dispute and as far as they were concerned it was a done deal.

Well, the dispute is not officially going to be closed out for another week, so I can't definitively tell you that I have successfully won my refund. However, I'm reasonably confident at this point that I will get to keep the money one way or another! I highly recommend the BBB dispute if you have not tried this. Let me know if you have any questions or want to see what I sent my credit card company and/or BBB.

Good luck!!

BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation.

Thanks,

Izzymail

Thank you, Izzymail! When you say BBB - you mean the Better Business Bureau? If so - is it to Arizona or to Nevada - or D.C.?

It is tiring, isn't it? That's how they 'win'.

Currently, my Amex card people are dealing with my dispute - and the charge has been removed (for the time being). The dispute takes 60 days (outside). The rep told me that it would more likely be resolved in 2 to 3 weeks. He guaranteed nothing and warned that if it didn't go my way I would have to get a lawyer - which I'm not inclined to do given the kind of money that might entail. What concerns me is if the credit card company upholds my dispute - but DRI then decides to come after me for the money some other way - and destroys my credit in the process.

I will take you up on what you sent to the BBB: 1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund.

and your credit card people: 2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions.

I'm thinking I need to call my credit card company to check on the status of the dispute, and maybe ask them about filing a BBB complaint.

 

[Talya]

@izzymail Did you have your experience in Sedona AZ?

 

[clifffaith]

"BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation."

Izzymail, we love our Worldmark membership! I'd recommend Worldmark in a heartbeat!

 

[izzymail]

Thank you, Izzymail! When you say BBB - you mean the Better Business Bureau? If so - is it to Arizona or to Nevada - or D.C.?

It is tiring, isn't it? That's how they 'win'.

Currently, my Amex card people are dealing with my dispute - and the charge has been removed (for the time being). The dispute takes 60 days (outside). The rep told me that it would more likely be resolved in 2 to 3 weeks. He guaranteed nothing and warned that if it didn't go my way I would have to get a lawyer - which I'm not inclined to do given the kind of money that might entail. What concerns me is if the credit card company upholds my dispute - but DRI then decides to come after me for the money some other way - and destroys my credit in the process.

I will take you up on what you sent to the BBB: 1. I submitted a BBB complaint. I detailed the lies that I was told as well and explained the whole situation, along with my requested resolution being a full refund.

and your credit card people: 2. I filed a dispute with me credit card company. I included a narrative of the scenario and about 15 pages of similar reviews, complaints, lawsuits, and state regulator actions.

I'm thinking I need to call my credit card company to check on the status of the dispute, and maybe ask them about filing a BBB complaint.

Yes, it is tiring! But I can be pretty persistent (OK, stubborn)

Yes, BBB is the Better Business Bureau and I used the one in Nevada where their headquarters is listed and they seem to have an active profile.

Our presentation was actually in Vegas...

I don't want to post my email address publicly, but maybe there is a PM option where you can send me yours and I can send you that info?

Well, I suppose they could possibly come after me after losing the CC dispute, but I think they may be somewhat bound to it as part of the terms and conditions of accepting credit cards. In any case, if the credit card company allows me to win I'm considering it over at that point!!

My dispute is not with AMEX and I know the rules are different for each card issuer. If anything AMEX is typically even more often in the cardholder's favor. Unfortunately, I imagine they will not be able to give you much of an update until their internal deadlines have passed. Also I don't think they will have any recommendations about the BBB and probably won't want to advise you on that either.

If I had to do it all over again, I might have just started with the BBB complaints to see if I could get them two proceed voluntarily. However... as I think about it, they could have drug that out where it was beyond my time frame to dispute with the credit card company, so I'm not sure.

I want to make an important point for you and anyone else who may find themselves in this situation and read this in the future. I have no confidence that the credit card dispute alone would get me a refund. We did sign a contract specifically stating that we understood all the terms and conditions, we read it, and we had not been lied to!! LOL

If they present that to the credit card company, they would be pretty much contractually obligated to uphold the charge as valid. The exception maybe if there is a large volume or pattern of chargebacks that would warrant the card issuer siding with the card holder.

In my case, Diamond had already agreed to refund my money (likely due to the BBB complaint). When they determined that it was in dispute as a chargeback, they claim that they did not respond, or more specifically that they responded to their merchant provider saying they were not going to contest the chargeback.

 

[izzymail]

"BTW, we have not let this bad experience completely turn us off from timeshares. We are seriously considering a RESALE WorldMark membership at some point....similar program but MUCH MUCH better value and better operation."

Izzymail, we love our Worldmark membership! I'd recommend Worldmark in a heartbeat!

Thank you for the encouragement! The more I learn about Worldmark, the more I like it. Its almost as good as what the Diamond folks promised they were!

 

[Talya]

Yes, it is tiring! But I can be pretty persistent (OK, stubborn)

I am perhaps more indicative of most - just not 'into' the sustained 'push' necessary. Too sanguine.

Yes, BBB is the Better Business Bureau and I used the one in Nevada where their headquarters is listed and they seem to have an active profile. Our presentation was actually in Vegas...

I will do both, then. (Arizona and Nevada).

I don't want to post my email address publicly, but maybe there is a PM option where you can send me yours and I can send you that info?

I will pm you my e-mail address.

Well, I suppose they could possibly come after me after losing the CC dispute, but I think they may be somewhat bound to it as part of the terms and conditions of accepting credit cards. In any case, if the credit card company allows me to win I'm considering it over at that point!!

Good point. I was wondering what the leverage would be with the credit card company.

As I mentioned, the credit card rep knew at once what I was talking about and started to tell me what they do - he seemed totally familiar with the scenario I was presenting. But he did caution that he could not promise me anything.

My dispute is not with AMEX and I know the rules are different for each card issuer. If anything AMEX is typically even more often in the cardholder's favor. Unfortunately, I imagine they will not be able to give you much of an update until their internal deadlines have passed. Also I don't think they will have any recommendations about the BBB and probably won't want to advise you on that either.

Good to know. I had a choice between 3 cards when I was paying - and decided to pull out the AMEX card because I knew (vaguely) that there would be more protections than with the other two (maybe). I was thinking in that way even as I pulled out the card - for pity's sake! Why did I do it? I was mesmerized with my 'alternate facts' - that I would be able to stay at resorts as I drove cross country. I guess. It looked like such a cool thing. And there were other people apparently buying in the large room - was that part of the snooker? Were the other groups really buying? Or were they actors in the shell game?

If I had to do it all over again, I might have just started with the BBB complaints to see if I could get them to proceed voluntarily. However... as I think about it, they could have drug that out where it was beyond my time frame to dispute with the credit card company, so I'm not sure.

So there is a deadline for the cc dispute - didn't know that.

I want to make an important point for you and anyone else who may find themselves in this situation and read this in the future. I have no confidence that the credit card dispute alone would get me a refund. We did sign a contract specifically stating that we understood all the terms and conditions, we read it, and we had not been lied to!! LOL

Okay - you are heard!

If they present that to the credit card company, they would be pretty much contractually obligated to uphold the charge as valid. The exception maybe if there is a large volume or pattern of chargebacks that would warrant the card issuer siding with the card holder.

Your first sentence - yes, that is how I am seeing it. Your second sentence gives me hope.

In my case, Diamond had already agreed to refund my money (likely due to the BBB complaint). When they determined that it was in dispute as a chargeback, they claim that they did not respond, or more specifically that they responded to their merchant provider saying they were not going to contest the chargeback.

Please post whether or not you actually get this resolved for real and certain.

 

[izzymail]

I am perhaps more indicative of most - just not 'into' the sustained 'push' necessary. Too sanguine.

I will do both, then. (Arizona and Nevada).

I will pm you my e-mail address.

Good point. I was wondering what the leverage would be with the credit card company.

As I mentioned, the credit card rep knew at once what I was talking about and started to tell me what they do - he seemed totally familiar with the scenario I was presenting. But he did caution that he could not promise me anything.

Good to know. I had a choice between 3 cards when I was paying - and decided to pull out the AMEX card because I knew (vaguely) that there would be more protections than with the other two (maybe). I was thinking in that way even as I pulled out the card - for pity's sake! Why did I do it? I was mesmerized with my 'alternate facts' - that I would be able to stay at resorts as I drove cross country. I guess. It looked like such a cool thing. And there were other people apparently buying in the large room - was that part of the snooker? Were the other groups really buying? Or were they actors in the shell game?

So there is a deadline for the cc dispute - didn't know that.

Okay - you are heard!

Your first sentence - yes, that is how I am seeing it. Your second sentence gives me hope.

Please post whether or not you actually get this resolved for real and certain.

Will do!
I should have mentioned that last time I spoke to they credit card company they confirmed that Diamond had not responded to the dispute... As long as they don't respond, I win by default! I will know for sure by the end of this month.

 

[Talya]

Will do!
I should have mentioned that last time I spoke to they credit card company they confirmed that Diamond had not responded to the dispute... As long as they don't respond, I win by default! I will know for sure by the end of this month.

Well, that's a ray of hope. As I mentioned to you in the e-mail, I have not been as articulate as you in my follow-up. And I have not gotten a promise of a refund at any point along the way - quite the reverse, the corporate office is standing by their contract in the letter I just received from them.

I will approach the BBB, however, regardless of my doomed prognosis (so say I). Thank you for all the info.

 

[hintok]

I purchased the package this morning at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, after reading this on TUG I went downstairs and cancelled the contract. Thanks to everyone on TUG

 

[Egret1986]

I purchased the package this morning at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, after reading this on TUG I went downstairs and cancelled the contract. Thanks to everyone on TUG

So glad that you saw this thread and cancelled! Good for you!!!

 

[Talya]

I purchased the package this morning at the Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort, after reading this on TUG I went downstairs and cancelled the contract. Thanks to everyone on TUG

They allowed a cancellation just like that? You are fortunate. I'm still waiting for AMEX to make its ruling, but DRI has refused to allow me to cancel at this point.

 

[hintok]

You had 7 days to cancel the contract. That's the reason you can't access your account and see the points chart until 2 weeks. If you saw what you were getting for $3995.00 you would cancel earlier. If you wait until you get your access it is too late to cancel.

 

[Talya]

You had 7 days to cancel the contract. That's the reason you can't access your account and see the points chart until 2 weeks. If you saw what you were getting for $3995.00 you would cancel earlier. If you wait until you get your access it is too late to cancel.

I did it all within the 7 days - sent a certified letter - they claimed that it was Nevada law that was operative, and not Arizona law. They refused to cancel.

 

[hintok]

It says on the first page of the contract, just above your signature, that you have seven days to cancel. I don't understand why they won't honor it. Since I am still as the resort, I returned the tablet they gave me with my letter to cancel the contract. I am also going to follow up with a copy of the letter to the Rescisson Coordinator in Las Vegas. I purchased it in Caliornia, but it does not say anything about what state law governs.

 

[Talya]

It says on the first page of the contract, just above your signature, that you have seven days to cancel. I don't understand why they won't honor it. Since I am still as the resort, I returned the tablet they gave me with my letter to cancel the contract. I am also going to follow up with a copy of the letter to the Rescisson Coordinator in Las Vegas. I purchased it in Caliornia, but it does not say anything about what state law governs.

You haven't read this thread which I started. It explains what my circumstances are. They are holding me to the contract. There is no cancellation clause on my contract. Quite the reverse. I apparently signed away my right to cancel. Stoopid me!

 

[hintok]

I am sorry, you are right. She let me leave the sales room to check some fiancial things on my computer and I saw this thread. It is very long and I only skimmed through it.