Received my deed, and a surprise

[Steve]

I purchased a Marriott week on eBay this past summer. It was listed by what I'm sure is a "postcard company", but one with a very large amount of positive feedback. Timeshare Closing Services in Orlando...which I have closed with before and which seems to be a reputable company...handled the closing.

Today, I received my deed in the mail...and a surprise. I paid less than $1000 for this platinum Marriott week, but the deed lists the purchase price as nearly $8000. It's already been recorded, and the transaction is complete. All the prior paperwork had the correct purchase price on it.

I hope it wasn't intentional to either pass ROFR or to provide a tax deduction to the seller. I did not, and would not, sign anything to falsify the purchase price. I work in the title industry, and I take these things seriously. Could it possibly be an honest mistake? That seems doubtful. I also doubt they'll be willing to fix it as they had a very hard time getting the signed deed from the previous owner as it was.

Steve

 

[Talent312]

Inflating the price would not help a seller increase a capital loss claim (which he probably could not take anyway); however, if the ROFR was exercized at the inflated price, the seller stands to benefit. But otherwise, it may hurt a seller by increasing the taxes due for the transaction (doc-stamp taxes). It may hurt a buyer by supporting a higher property tax assessment.

AFAIK, the most likely reason was to fraudulent ROFR submission, but generally, a copy of the contract is attached to the waiver request, so for it to work, they would have to submit a fraudulent contract. The seller was either (1) looking for a windfall from Marriott or (2) trying to hoodwink Marriott into approving the sale. Either way, its deceptive.

If you want to stir up this hornet's nest, ask them why they did it, or ask for a copy of the ROFR submission, or ask Marriott for a copy of the contract they were given... but if Marriott got wind of this, they could void the transfer.

 

[ttt]

In some locations, you must pay recording fees on the sales price(consideration) or value of the property. Some county recorders will not record a deed if the stated consideration is too low compared with other similar sales unless recording fees are paid for the actual value instead of the consideration amount.

 

[tschwa2]

It is really not for the county recorder to decide what a timeshare "should" have sold for vs what it was sold for. If they want a minimum fee it should be recording fee for values up to $X.xx are charged $Y.yy.

If the county recorder rejects the deed due to the price, (s)he needs to do so in writing. In some cases property taxes are based off the selling price and if it was recorded incorrectly it needs to be corrected.

The "actual" value is what was paid if it was based on an open auction.

 

[djs]

I paid exactly $0.00 for my timeshare, yet the recorded deed says that consideration was $10.00. Now "consideration" can be different than cash but it seems that some counties may have a minimum. Granted $8,000 seems like it would be a high min.

Timeshare was given to me by a family member, upon further reflection I may still be paying "consideration" for it.

 

[theo]

Sometimes private info ISN'T really private at all...

I paid exactly $0.00 for my timeshare, yet the recorded deed says that consideration was $10.00. Now "consideration" can be different than cash but it seems that some counties may have a minimum. Granted $8,000 seems like it would be a high min.

In many places, that $10.00 figure is just a "default" entry, regardless of the actual price paid. In such instances, the actual price paid can often still be deduced, by merely looking at the document stamps fee often indicated on the recorded deed and just doing the math from there...

 

[Judi Kozlowski]

ROFR

If the waiver of the right of first refusal was obtained using false information I do think that Marriott could step in and void the transaction and become the Buyer of the property.

 

[chriskre]

So are these PCC's counting the fees that the seller paid.
Maybe the seller paid $7000 and you paid $1000.
I know it's not exactly honest but maybe they think it's okay to do this. Maybe it helps them sleep at night. :ignore:

 

[presley]

So are these PCC's counting the fees that the seller paid.
Maybe the seller paid $7000 and you paid $1000.
I know it's not exactly honest but maybe they think it's okay to do this. Maybe it helps them sleep at night. :ignore:

I don't think that is what they are doing. My deed says I paid $1,000. I paid $1500 + fees for a total of over $2200.. That doesn't include what the seller paid to the PCC. I think they are just making stuff up.

 

[Ron98GT]

Riverside County CA is lowering property taxes if the new buyer paid less for the property than the seller did when they purchased it. I would want to see the $1,000 or less on the deed, it COULD mean lower property taxes.

I can't see the ROFR be a reason for putting $8,000 on the deed, even if this was a platinum week. Maybe someone goofed and put down $8,000 instead of $800?

 

[Rent_Share]

California and Florida are two states that charge the individual owners property tax vs the HOA's, in both cases acuracy WOULD matter

 

[Talent312]

The use of "$10.00 in hand paid" is a traditional phrase in deeds. Its used used simply to show that buyer paid something and has no relation to the actual purchase price. In some places the actual purchase price (or the doc stamp tax on which it is based) is noted on the deed to satisfy the state's revenue department and assist the county's property tax assessor/appraser.

A county recorder's fee is usually $x per page, but even if based on the price, there's no reason for a seller to inflate the price, unless its to make the sale look better on paper than it was. I agree with Judy: If the ROFR was false and Marriott caught on ("lose lips sink ships"), the transfer could be voided.

 

[Dave H]

California and Florida are two states that charge the individual owners property tax vs the HOA's, in both cases acuracy WOULD matter

Property taxes on Timeshares in Florida are through the Association, not through individual owners and added to the maintenance fee bills...

 

[SueDonJ]

Boy it amazes me how some folks will let shady transactions stand pat if it benefits them, but then will turn around and blast timeshare developers to kindgom come if what they do is the least bit questionable. Of course this is a tactic used by re-sellers to try to take advantage of ROFR if/when it's exercised! If it was exercised here on the OP's purchase the seller (and closing company!) would get more money from Marriott and the OP wouldn't have gotten the week at the price he offered - all based on the incorrect information deliberately put into the legal papers, right? It's a shady practice, no way to explain it in any other terms.

Here's a thread with a similar situation. The OP there did ask the closing company to resubmit the correct selling price for ROFR.

 

[Ron98GT]

California and Florida are two states that charge the individual owners property tax vs the HOA's, in both cases acuracy WOULD matter.

I forgot that ALL of CA requires the property taxes to be payed by the owner to the county and not thru the HOA -

Property taxes on Timeshares in Florida are through the Association, not through individual owners and added to the maintenance fee bills...

OK, who's right...

At least I know CA & NV

 

[Ron98GT]

Oopp's, tried to delete I give up

 

[Talent312]

Property taxes on Timeshares in Florida are through the Association, not through individual owners and added to the maintenance fee bills...

... is correct.

From the horses mouth, Section 192.037, Florida Statutes:
(1) For the purposes of ad valorem taxation and special assessments, the managing entity... shall be considered the taxpayer as an agent of the timeshare period titleholder.

(2) Fee timeshare real property shall be listed on the assessment rolls as a single entry for each timeshare development. The assessed value of each timeshare development shall be the value of the combined individual timeshare periods or timeshare estates contained therein.
...
(5) The managing entity, as an agent of the timeshare period titleholders, shall collect and remit the taxes and special assessments due on the fee timeshare real property.

 

[Rent_Share]

Sorry - Hawaii ?

 

[Steve]

Boy it amazes me how some folks will let shady transactions stand pat if it benefits them, but then will turn around and blast timeshare developers to kindgom come if what they do is the least bit questionable.

Sue,

I hope this isn't directed at me personally. Having observed how you react when other posters assume things about your motives...or jump to conclusions...I hope you aren't doing the same thing to me in this instance.

Regardless, I will be discussing the situation with the closing company tomorrow...the first business day since I received my deed and discovered the discrepancy. I doubt that they will want to fix it...and that is what I expressed in my original post...but I am not just letting "shady transactions stand pat". I would not have posted on TUG if I was okay with the situation.

If they have to resubmit the ROFR to Marriott, that's fine with me. If Marriott purchases the week under their ROFR, that's fine with me, too. I'm pretty sure they won't as they are letting weeks go through for even less than what I paid, but they can have it if they want it.

My biggest concern was with the incorrect sales price reporting to the county. I work in the title industry, but Utah is a non-disclosure state so I don't really know what needs to take place to fix this as I never deal with it in my business. I can say based on my professional experience, however, that these things should not happen. It's either very sloppy, or it is dishonest.

Steve

 

[DeniseM]

Boy it amazes me how some folks will let shady transactions stand pat if it benefits them, but then will turn around and blast timeshare developers to kindgom come if what they do is the least bit questionable.

I suggest that you re-read the thread, because NO ONE said that. If your accusation is directed at Steve, I think you owe him an apology.

I hope it wasn't intentional to either pass ROFR or to provide a tax deduction to the seller. I did not, and would not, sign anything to falsify the purchase price. I work in the title industry, and I take these things seriously. Could it possibly be an honest mistake? That seems doubtful. I also doubt they'll be willing to fix it as they had a very hard time getting the signed deed from the previous owner as it was.

Steve

 

[SueDonJ]

Oh no, I didn't mean that you, Steve, were trying something shady here. You were very clear that you intend to see if the closing company can do anything to get your paperwork corrected now that you've seen it and found the error.

For whatever it's worth, there have been other threads where some seem to say, maybe not in so many words, that it's okay for the developers to be duped in the event that they exercise ROFR. But I didn't read that in this thread so it was wrong for me to include the first sentence in my post. I'm sorry.

Honestly, I linked that one thread to show that a TUGger was able to go back to the closing company and get the paperwork corrected so that s/he felt comfortable enough with the purchase. Even though your closing has gone through, Steve, hopefully the closing company can do something to put you more at ease.

 

[Beefnot]

Boy it amazes me how some folks will let shady transactions stand pat if it benefits them, but then will turn around and blast timeshare developers to kindgom come if what they do is the least bit questionable.

It is disingenuous to conflate active deception with passive silence. Like if you review a merchandise receipt and realize you were undercharged for an item, that by not marching back to the retailer and demanding to pay what you owe is the moral equivalent of deliberately deceiving sales tactics designed to legally fleece customers of their money.

 

[Patri]

It is disingenuous to conflate active deception with passive silence. Like if you review a merchandise receipt and realize you were undercharged for an item, that by not marching back to the retailer and demanding to pay what you owe is the moral equivalent of deliberately deceiving sales tactics designed to legally fleece customers of their money.

If I catch it at the checkout line, I mention it immediately. Sometimes it is a sale price not clearly marked, sometime they still honor it as their error. Have only had this occur minimally and at not much price difference. How can a merchant charge incorrectly these days? They use UPC codes. Any undercharge would have to be done manually. What store does that any more?

 

[chriskre]

... is correct.

From the horses mouth, Section 192.037, Florida Statutes:
(1) For the purposes of ad valorem taxation and special assessments, the managing entity... shall be considered the taxpayer as an agent of the timeshare period titleholder.

(2) Fee timeshare real property shall be listed on the assessment rolls as a single entry for each timeshare development. The assessed value of each timeshare development shall be the value of the combined individual timeshare periods or timeshare estates contained therein.
...
(5) The managing entity, as an agent of the timeshare period titleholders, shall collect and remit the taxes and special assessments due on the fee timeshare real property.

I own 6 of my 9 Timeshares in Florida and I do NOT pay property taxes separately from my MF's. I can't imagine that happening as it would be a nightmare for the associations with tons of tax liens.

 

[Rent_Share]

I own 6 of my 9 Timeshares in Florida and I do NOT pay property taxes separately from my MF's. I can't imagine that happening as it would be a nightmare for the associations with tons of tax liens.

I WAS WRONG, CORRECTED, AND APOLOGIZED

There is another popular timeshare state besides California that bills the individual owners, so as ludicrous as you believe it is from your perspective it is the norm in my part of the world

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: