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Points Credit Pool - What Happens to Cancelled Pooled Points?

dhemery

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It looks like when you cancel a reservation that was made with pooled points that the (cancelled) pooled points go back to Regular Use Year Points (as opposed to going back to the credit pool).

Question 1: if I pool 2019 points, make a 2017 reservation with them, and then cancel the 2017 reservation, do the (cancelled) pooled points used for the 2017 reservation go back to 2019 Regular Use points (I think so, but want to be sure they won't go to 2017 Regular Use points).

Question 2: If the cancelled pool points in the above example do go back to 2019 Regular Use points, is there still ARP re those points (I doubt it, but have no idea)?

Thank You Much for any replies, Tuggers!

My above questions are based on the below which is from the Wyndham website:


Cancelled Reservations


Beginning August 4, 2015, reservations that are cancelled in accordance with the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Cancellation Policy will now have points returned as Regular Use Year Points and will no longer be referred to as Cancelled Reservation Points. Any reference to Cancelled Reservation Points in the CLUB

WYNDHAM Plus Member’s Directory will only apply to Cancelled Reservation Points received prior to August 4, 2015.*

This change will affect the following:

Points Credit Pool (on page 341):• If you have to cancel a reservation, the Pool Credits will be returned to the Points Credit Pool with the original expiration date.
 

iaminak

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Question 2: If the cancelled pool points in the above example do go back to 2019 Regular Use points, is there still ARP re those points (I doubt it, but have no idea)?

My understanding is that you can't use ARP on pooled points.
 

paxsarah

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The quoted language indicates the policy is that pooled points used to make a reservation and then cancelled are to go back to the credit pool with the original expiration date - they are not supposed to be returned as regular use year points. Being in the points credit pool, they would necessarily not have ARP privileges.

However, even though they are supposed to be returned to the credit pool in this way, Wyndham's IT system reportedly sometimes flubs this action (and sometimes doesn't) to varying degrees of severity. There is a zillion-page thread about accounts that have been frozen based on point discrepancies related to this issue. Wyndham has been unable to make their IT system conform to the above new-ish policy language (which was introduced in when, summer of 2015?).
 

dhemery

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My understanding is that you can't use ARP on pooled points.

The reason I ask is that the Wyndham site says:

What points cannot be used for an ARP reservation?
Regular Use Year points tied to your ownership interest are the only points that can be used for your ARP reservations. Learn more about Priority Reservations.

So, if a reservation made with pooled points is cancelled, and those (cancelled) pooled points return as Regular Use points, then (perhaps) those Regular Use points have ARP (that is my question - I agree that pooled points do not have ARP, but do (cancelled) pooled points that are returned as Regular Use points have ARP?

Thank you for the response!
 

dhemery

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The quoted language indicates the policy is that pooled points used to make a reservation and then cancelled are to go back to the credit pool with the original expiration date - they are not supposed to be returned as regular use year points. Being in the points credit pool, they would necessarily not have ARP privileges.

However, even though they are supposed to be returned to the credit pool in this way, Wyndham's IT system reportedly sometimes flubs this action (and sometimes doesn't) to varying degrees of severity. There is a zillion-page thread about accounts that have been frozen based on point discrepancies related to this issue. Wyndham has been unable to make their IT system conform to the above new-ish policy language (which was introduced in when, summer of 2015?).

The quoted language says that the OLD policy was for cancelled credit pool points to return to the credit pool, BUT the NEW policy modifies that and now says that the cancelled credit pooled points return as Regular Use points - my question is what year do they return to as Regular Use points (in my example, would the cancelled pooled points return as Regular Use points in year 2017 or in year 2019?).

Thank you for the response!
 

iaminak

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The reason I ask is that the Wyndham site says:

I agree that pooled points do not have ARP, but do (cancelled) pooled points that are returned as Regular Use points have ARP?

Thank you for the response!

ok, gotcha - my guess would be that they don't intend for them to but I would bet they would have ARP because their system isn't going to catch that they were pooled/cancelled/returned to regular points...
 

paxsarah

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Actually, the old policy was that any cancelled reservations' points (whether originally from regular use year points or credit pool points) came back into a category called "cancelled points." The new policy eliminated the "cancelled points" category and dictates that points from cancelled reservations go back into the basket that they came from, whether the credit pool or regular use year points.
 

wjappraise

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The quoted language says that the OLD policy was for cancelled credit pool points to return to the credit pool, BUT the NEW policy modifies that and now says that the cancelled credit pooled points return as Regular Use points - my question is what year do they return to as Regular Use points (in my example, would the cancelled pooled points return as Regular Use points in year 2017 or in year 2019?).

Thank you for the response!

In my experience, they would return as 2017 points, which is NOT what they should do. This is all part of the ongoing IT saga wherein Wyndham has a series of epic fails.
 

wjappraise

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ok, gotcha - my guess would be that they don't intend for them to but I would bet they would have ARP because their system isn't going to catch that they were pooled/cancelled/returned to regular points...

That would be nice, however, what has happened to me, is that the points return to the current use year, as "orphans," meaning they have no contract associated, and therefore cannot be used for ARP. Further complicating things, this appears to be one of the triggers that causes a member account to show more current points than the account should, which has resulted in suspended accounts. A HUGE headache, invented by your Wyndham IT department. . . cue the clown music.
 

iaminak

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That would be nice, however, what has happened to me, is that the points return to the current use year, as "orphans," meaning they have no contract associated, and therefore cannot be used for ARP.

Makes sense - I've got all points in CWA though so I doubt it would matter if they couldn't link them back to which contract they came from, would it?
 

dhemery

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Actually, the old policy was that any cancelled reservations' points (whether originally from regular use year points or credit pool points) came back into a category called "cancelled points." The new policy eliminated the "cancelled points" category and dictates that points from cancelled reservations go back into the basket that they came from, whether the credit pool or regular use year points.

The NEW policy does NOT dictate, ". . .that points from cancelled reservations go back into the basket that they came from, whether the credit pool or regular use year points. Instead, cancelled credit pool points NO LONGER go back to the credit pool. NOW, they go back as Regular Use points.

I do appreciate the response (thank you), but please see below. Also, I have read every TUG thread re points credit pool, as well as the directory (the below is from a supplement to the directory, link provided).
----------
OLD policy:

Points Credit Pool (on page 341):


• If you have to cancel a reservation, the Pool Credits will be returned to the Points Credit Pool with the original expiration date.
----------
NEW policy:

Cancelled Reservations


Beginning August 4, 2015, reservations that are cancelled in accordance with the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Cancellation Policy will now have points returned as Regular Use Year Points and will no longer be referred to as Cancelled Reservation Points. Any reference to Cancelled Reservation Points in the CLUB

WYNDHAM Plus Member’s Directory will only apply to Cancelled Reservation Points received prior to August 4, 2015.*
----------
LINK:

https://www.myclubwyndham.com/ffrweb/pdfs/0194_2015_CW_Directory_Supplement.pdf
----------
 

paxsarah

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I humbly submit that you are misreading it.
 

dhemery

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I humbly submit that you are misreading it.

This is the quote from the Wyndham website, which I have previously provided a link to.

The sentence is, "Beginning August 4, 2015, reservations that are cancelled in accordance with the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Cancellation Policy will now have points returned as Regular Use Year Points and will no longer be referred to as Cancelled Reservation Points."

I am a lawyer, like to think I am pretty good at interpreting contractual language, and I don't see any way that the above can be read as indicating that cancelled reservations have their points returned to the credit pool (that's just not the case). They specifically state return to credit pool was the OLD policy which is modified by the NEW policy (by the sentence above).

Not trying to be argumentative, but I don't want to further confuse other readers - It is clear that the CURRENT policy is that cancelled credit pooled points NO LONGER return to the credit pool.
 

paxsarah

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The old policy is on page 341 of the 2014-15 Member's Directory (found here: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1415/#/356). It states:

Important Information about Canceling a Reservation
  • If your reservation is cancelled 15 days or more prior to the check-in date, the points used for the reservation will be returned to your account as Cancelled Reservation Points.

The new policy is on the directory supplement you linked. It refers to page 341, and states that Credit Pool points will now be returned to the Credit Pool.
 

dhemery

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The old policy is on page 341 of the 2014-15 Member's Directory (found here: http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/plus_membersdirectory1415/#/356). It states:

Important Information about Canceling a Reservation
  • If your reservation is cancelled 15 days or more prior to the check-in date, the points used for the reservation will be returned to your account as Cancelled Reservation Points.

The new policy is on the directory supplement you linked. It refers to page 341, and states that Credit Pool points will now be returned to the Credit Pool.

Yes, the new policy I linked to refers to page 341 by stating that the old policy on page 341 (the old policy where cancelled pooled points return to the pool) has been modified to the new policy where cancelled points are returned as regular use points, not as pooled points.

The supplement first states the new rule (cancelled points return as regular use points) and THEN lists the OLD rules it is modifying (including the old rule you refer to on page 341 which is no longer in effect). You are reading this as if the old rule was still in effect, not at all what the supplement says.
 

paxsarah

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I humbly submit that you did not actually look at page 341 of the directory link that I posted, or you would have seen that the language you claim is the "old policy" appears nowhere on that page. Cancelled pooled points returned to Cancelled Points prior to August 4 of 2015. Cancelled pooled points, according to the new policy, return to the Credit Pool after August 4 of 2015. (Now, as I and others have stated, Wyndham's IT systems do sometimes get this wrong, but I'm just talking about the policy and what is supposed to happen.)

You may want to call Wyndham directly to speak to a vacation counselor if you require further clarification, because apparently first-hand knowledge of the policy prior to and after the change, which is the type of information a user forum excels at, is unsatisfactory to you.
 

dhemery

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I humbly submit that you did not actually look at page 341 of the directory link that I posted, or you would have seen that the language you claim is the "old policy" appears nowhere on that page. Cancelled pooled points returned to Cancelled Points prior to August 4 of 2015. Cancelled pooled points, according to the new policy, return to the Credit Pool after August 4 of 2015. (Now, as I and others have stated, Wyndham's IT systems do sometimes get this wrong, but I'm just talking about the policy and what is supposed to happen.)

You may want to call Wyndham directly to speak to a vacation counselor if you require further clarification, because apparently first-hand knowledge of the policy prior to and after the change, which is the type of information a user forum excels at, is unsatisfactory to you.

The supplement I linked to from Wyndham is the most up to date official info out there.

If you think that the new policy which states, and I quote, "Beginning August 4, 2015, reservations that are cancelled in accordance with the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Cancellation Policy will now have points returned as Regular Use Year Points and will no longer be referred to as Cancelled Reservation Points" and that also states it officially modifies the old policy where points used to go back to the credit pool, means that cancelled points are returned to the credit pool, then there is not much I can do to help you.
 

paxsarah

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dhemery

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I would love some advice from those with actual/first-hand knowledge/experience re cancelling pooled points post-rule change.

Basic question is now (as opposed to before the rule change, which I do have experience with), when you make a reservation with pooled points, and then cancel, where do those pooled points go (the supplement states they are returned as regular use points, but does not say what year. So if I book a 2017 reservation with 2019 pooled points, and then cancel, would the points come back as 2017 regular use points? Or would they come back as regular use year points in the year the pooled points derived from, such as 2019?

Thanks Again!
 

shorts

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For the last two years all of my points have been credit pooled. I have made several reservations and have cancelled 2 or 3. In every instance the points were returned to the credit pool they came from. You are definitely misreading the supplemental directory.

Old rule: Credit pool points when cancelled became "cancelled points"

New rule (8/15): Credit pool points cancelled return to credit pool. If they don't - it is an error on Wyndham's side.
 

wjappraise

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I would love some advice from those with actual/first-hand knowledge/experience re cancelling pooled points post-rule change.

Basic question is now (as opposed to before the rule change, which I do have experience with), when you make a reservation with pooled points, and then cancel, where do those pooled points go (the supplement states they are returned as regular use points, but does not say what year. So if I book a 2017 reservation with 2019 pooled points, and then cancel, would the points come back as 2017 regular use points? Or would they come back as regular use year points in the year the pooled points derived from, such as 2019?

Thanks Again!

I have experience with post-rule change credit pool cancellations. In the first instance (before Wyndham realigned my use years), the reservation was for an early 2017 dates, and the points returned to regular use year, expiring 3/31/2017 which was very disappointing as the points were likely going to be wasted as I had no more need for reservations in that time frame. The second instance (after Wyndham realigned my use years), the reservation was for an early 2017 dates, and the points returned to regular use year, expiring 12/31/2017, which is still a bit disappointing, given the credit pool points should have expired in 2019.

I know it is a small sample size, but it appears that Credit Pool points when cancelled go into the current use year, with the earliest expiration date. And, those points are NOT eligible to placed back into the Credit Pool, nor used for Maintenance Fee payments (I tried).
 

Richelle

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With the new policy, reservations made with regular use year points, will go back to the regular use year pool instead of being labeled as "canceled reservation points". It also states in the supplement, that reservations made with credit pool points will go back to the credit pool when canceled.

This basically means, when you cancel a reservation, the points go back to whatever bucket they came from and will retain the expiration they had when you made the reservation. Meaning the expiration does not change when they go back to the credit pool or use year pool. For example, I made a reservation with some credit pool points that had an expiration of 2019. If I canceled that reservation, the points would go back to the credit pool and would still have the same expiration of 2019.
 

Richelle

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I have experience with post-rule change credit pool cancellations. In the first instance (before Wyndham realigned my use years), the reservation was for an early 2017 dates, and the points returned to regular use year, expiring 3/31/2017 which was very disappointing as the points were likely going to be wasted as I had no more need for reservations in that time frame. The second instance (after Wyndham realigned my use years), the reservation was for an early 2017 dates, and the points returned to regular use year, expiring 12/31/2017, which is still a bit disappointing, given the credit pool points should have expired in 2019.

I know it is a small sample size, but it appears that Credit Pool points when cancelled go into the current use year, with the earliest expiration date. And, those points are NOT eligible to placed back into the Credit Pool, nor used for Maintenance Fee payments (I tried).


Did you call a VC to correct the issue? Credit pool points should go back to the credit pool per Wyndham guidelines.
 

wjappraise

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Did you call a VC to correct the issue? Credit pool points should go back to the credit pool per Wyndham guidelines.

I did not. I have been on the phone and email with Wyndham so much in the past five months, I am weary. . . .
 

Richelle

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I did not. I have been on the phone and email with Wyndham so much in the past five months, I am weary. . . .

I do not blame you. I hope you all get a resolution soon.
 
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