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Sandy VDH

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So the opportunistic value is higher since we get about 4-5c/SP upon redemption and not 2.25c/SP (I used that figure for SP as the approx. consensus value)

The main difference is SP vs UR, is UR you can PURCHASE any airline or hotel that is in the portal and get 4.5% on every TRAVEL (including TS MFs spend) and Dining spend. With SP are you limited to just use points on Hotels and/or affiliated point transfers to other airline programs.

Whereas UR you can purchase ANY travel, NOT just one chain or airline, provided you can find it in the portal to book. Now I just noticed AC flights were not in there but no problem with UA or AA. When you purchase these as flights or hotels you actually earn points on them.

Now I think business and first reward you might be better off getting from the airlines, but for basic coach fares the portal works just fine.

So to me the key is flexibility and NOT being forced into a single hotel or airline system.
 

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I understand the difference, but if I need/want to stay at a Marriott/Starwood hotel (which we do for NYC and NorCal)... is using MRs or SPs a better value than reserving using UR points?

I have plenty of both URs and SPs to use for the two of us - so deciding whether to pay remains VSE MFs with CSR or SW AMEX.
~250K UR
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(and ~150K AA miles)
 

Sandy VDH

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I have a tendency to use rewards for dream trip hotel and airfare, AND when frequent flyer points are not low enough and fares are.

I don't use hotels as much unless I am traveling for work. Then I try to stay at one of the big chains if possible. Since I am usually not paying for it I don't worry about it.

Some examples...

So Hotel points I have I used in Maldives and French Poly for $1.5k to $2K a night hotel rooms. Best use of points in my opinion in MOST, but not all cases. You have to consider what the local price is vs the hotel rating. Some places it makes sense to use a reward over a purchase.

So Airline points I use for Bus/First Overseas or expensive HI or Caribbean flights. Paid 25K for one way First/Bus Class fare that is otherwise $1000 I paid 15K for a one way flight that was $790 in coach.

I used the portal for a $685 flight that is now about $457 in UR $$. It is not available as a reward because Silver Airlines is one leg from FLL to the Bahamas (TCB airport). For 25K in points I could fly to FLL then pay $314 in UR $$ for FLL to TCB. But that makes NO sense, 25K for $140 worth of value. That makes NO sense, just buy the airfare in UR$$ instead.

So pick and choose the point values that get the most bang for the buck for you.
 

Sandy VDH

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I understand the difference, but if I need/want to stay at a Marriott/Starwood hotel (which we do for NYC and NorCal)... is using MRs or SPs a better value than reserving using UR points?

I have plenty of both URs and SPs to use for the two of us - so deciding whether to pay remains VSE MFs with CSR or SW AMEX.
~250K UR
~150K SP
(and ~150K AA miles)

Based on your profile where all of you TS are in program, and in that program they may earn extra points for that branded card, well then I can see why you say who cares abour UR. But some of us own multiple programs. Me, I own Hilton, Wyndham, HICV, and some other non point units. So for me Sapphire Reserve and UR makes much more sense.
 

rickandcindy23

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I understand the difference, but if I need/want to stay at a Marriott/Starwood hotel (which we do for NYC and NorCal)... is using MRs or SPs a better value than reserving using UR points?

I have plenty of both URs and SPs to use for the two of us - so deciding whether to pay remains VSE MFs with CSR or SW AMEX.
~250K UR
~150K SP
(and ~150K AA miles)
UR Points transfer to Marriott 1:1. YMMV on value, but of course you can transfer to Starwood from Marriott.

I don't use UR points for hotels much. I have transferred to Hyatt some. Hyatt has hotels in places I go, and they are very reasonably priced.
 

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Based on your profile where all of you TS are in program, and in that program they may earn extra points for that branded card, well then I can see why you say who cares abour UR. But some of us own multiple programs. Me, I own Hilton, Wyndham, HICV, and some other non point units. So for me Sapphire Reserve and UR makes much more sense.

I never said 'who cares about UR' - we have 2 CSR cards and ~250K UR (or will soon). I was wondering which offers more value, and responding to difference between opportunitistic and real value. When putting factors based on points, then it is the value ($) of those points that matters when using these factors because it is more than just 2x, 3x, or 4x (etc.) those points. Thus my comparison between the consensus value of points - whether SP, UR, MR or airline miles.
 

rickandcindy23

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David, you can play a bit in the UR Portal, and perhaps you can judge the value for what you need.

For example, I need a car rental for Kauai. The UR Portal has a good price for a car, better than Costco, so I am going to pay for the car through the portal with UR points. If I get a better deal at Costco, I just need to cancel the UR Points rental within two business days of our first day.

Hotels vary so much in price, sometimes the best value is in using points. But I wouldn't use 16,000 UR points (transferred from UR to a hotel chain) for a hotel room I can get for $154 + tax. That would not be wise. But I could use my UR points through the portal to get that same hotel.

Every time I need to make any travel arrangements, I do the math and check to see what hotel points are for the date, and then compare to the cost of the hotel in dollars.

The worst value for hotel points is definitely Holiday Inn. The points are very high, when compared to Hyatt. I just got an email from Hyatt saying they are changing their system. Not good. :bawl: I have paid 8,000 Hyatt points for a hotel room that would have cost me $350+ tax. I didn't even pay the tax for that room. That is what I love about Hyatt.

One thing for sure, I see other systems like Barclay's Arrival, and I just know I would be better off not even trying to learn a new currency. I know UR well, and I am sticking with it. I didn't have a great experience with SPG for value.
 
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DavidnRobin

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David, you can play a bit in the UR Portal, and perhaps you can judge the value for what you need.

For example, I need a car rental for Kauai. The UR Portal has a good price for a car, better than Costco, so I am going to pay for the car through the portal with UR points. If I get a better deal at Costco, I just need to cancel the UR Points rental within two business days of our first day.

Hotels vary so much in price, sometimes the best value is in using points. But I wouldn't use 16,000 UR points (transferred from UR to a hotel chain) for a hotel room I can get for $154 + tax. That would not be wise. But I could use my UR points through the portal to get that same hotel.

Every time I need to make any travel arrangements, I do the math and check to see what hotel points are for the date, and then compare to the cost of the hotel in dollars.

The worst value for hotel points is definitely Holiday Inn. The points are very high, when compared to Hyatt. I just got an email from Hyatt saying they are changing their system. Not good. :bawl: I have paid 8,000 Hyatt points for a hotel room that would have cost me $350+ tax. I didn't even pay the tax for that room. That is what I love about Hyatt.

One thing for sure, I see other systems like Barclay's Arrival, and I just know I would be better off not even trying to learn a new currency. I know UR well, and I am sticking with it. I didn't have a great experience with SPG for value.

Thanks for all of the great information - I figured the responses would be 'depends'.
You are right - I will need to play with the portal.

Costco prices vary tremendously - I have rentals coming up in Maui that now has the vehicles at twice the rate I originally reserved (a while ago).

I have had some excellent values using SP in UK/EU and US (which I have previously posted) and being merely SPG Gold. But, now just going to burn through them (NYC in Fall 2017) and change over to UR.
 

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I am just catching up on this email thread. I think the attractive part about the card is the bonus. I cannot get around my head as to whether I should get this card, other than getting the bonus for the first year.

Costco Visa gives me 3X on dining, 4X on gas and the card is free. My SPG Amex not only gives 5X on MF (2X for use of card, 3X for spending at the hotel), but also is able to transfer to Marriott Rewards at 3X. SPG Amex also now gives 2X on Marriott hotel spendings, after the merger. SPG Amex charges me $65 a year (they sent me a mail apologizing for the confusion about fee increase... indicating that there is no increase for me... I think that is because I put about 100K a year on that card). I am contemplating giving up my Marriott Visa since I no longer use it as between SPG Amex and Costco Visa, I have my rewards covered. I travel only on first class or business class, and usually use my Marriott points to convert to airline points to do so through use of travel package, and reading the above it sounds like the UR portal does not provide good deals on first class or business class tickets.

Am I missing anything?
 

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I also got the email that I will get 2x starpoints for Marriott hotel using Starwood Amex. If I use the Starwood American Express to pay for maintenance fee on my Marriott timeshares, will I get 2x starpoints too? If yes, I can get potential 6 Marriott points per dollar spent, which would even better than the chase sapphire reserve.
 

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I also got the email that I will get 2x starpoints for Marriott hotel using Starwood Amex. If I use the Starwood American Express to pay for maintenance fee on my Marriott timeshares, will I get 2x starpoints too? If yes, I can get potential 6 Marriott points per dollar spent, which would even better than the chase sapphire reserve.

That is what I am thinking... how can we verify this? It is 5X MRPs currently on Marriott Visa to pay for Marriott MF.
 

dioxide45

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I also got the email that I will get 2x starpoints for Marriott hotel using Starwood Amex. If I use the Starwood American Express to pay for maintenance fee on my Marriott timeshares, will I get 2x starpoints too? If yes, I can get potential 6 Marriott points per dollar spent, which would even better than the chase sapphire reserve.

That is what I am thinking... how can we verify this? It is 5X MRPs currently on Marriott Visa to pay for Marriott MF.

I will know by next weekend if we get 5x points paying for our Starwood MF on DWs Marriott Chase card. I paid our SVV fees and her statement rolls next week. If that works, I would think it would work the other way around.

You can always pay a small payment on the Starwood Amex card and wait to see how it posts before paying in full.

If you can get 2 StarPoints per dollar, that is the better way to go since 2 StarPoints=6 Marriott Reward points.
 

rickandcindy23

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Am I missing anything?
Probably. UR points are not the same as 4X on gas and 3X on restaurants as a cashback program.

If I spend $5,000 on restaurants and get 3% back with Citi Costco, that is a whopping $150 in cash back.

With Chase Sapphire Reserve, $5,000 X 3 = 15K points. If 100K points is valued at $1,500 through the portal, then 15K is worth quite a bit more than $150. If I am doing the math correctly, 15,000 points is worth around $225.

Who said the portal is not worth much? It's like checking Kayak for the best airfare, it's sometimes better than Costco for car rentals. You can use the points instead of cash.

I posted earlier about my airfare savings flying first class to Hawaii from the coast. It was $808 cash, but I used points. I thought I got a smokin' deal, and it was at 1.25 UR points, and now I can get 1.5 UR points. Math is not my forte, believe me, but I can figure this stuff out, and it's amazing.

Here is the math for UR points:

$808 ticket (including all fees and taxes) cost us 64,640 points. This was at 1.25X UR. We now have 1.5X UR, so we would do better with the new Chase Sapphire Reserve portal. 64,640 was about 48,480 spend, but now that spend would get me 72,720 for the same spend at 1.5X.

If I transferred points to an airline, I would probably only get one award seat in first. That's all Alaska and Hawaiian seem to have for award seats. I assume United is the same. Then I have to pay for one seat. I can pay through the Chase UR Portal for that second seat, but it could be a lot of points that way, depending on the cash price of that seat.

So you get 5X paying your Vistana MF's with your SPG Amex? That is a heck of a deal. I only get 2X. I am dumping the SPG card for this one.
 
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VacationForever

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Probably. UR points are not the same as 4X on gas and 3X on restaurants as a cashback program.

If I spend $5,000 on restaurants and get 3% back with Citi Costco, that is a whopping $150 in cash back.

With Chase Sapphire Reserve, $5,000 X 3 = 15K points. If 100K points is valued at $1,500 through the portal, then 15K is worth quite a bit more than $150. If I am doing the math correctly, 15,000 points is worth around $225.

Who said the portal is not worth much? It's like checking Kayak for the best airfare, it's sometimes better than Costco for car rentals. You can use the points instead of cash.

I posted earlier about my airfare savings flying first class to Hawaii from the coast. It was $808 cash, but I used points. I thought I got a smokin' deal, and it was at 1.25 UR points, and now I can get 1.5 UR points. Math is not my forte, believe me, but I can figure this stuff out, and it's amazing.



If I transferred points to an airline, I would probably only get one award seat in first. That's all Alaska and Hawaiian seem to have for award seats. I assume United is the same. Then I have to pay for one seat. I can pay through the Chase UR Portal for that second seat, but it could be a lot of points that way, depending on the cash price of that seat.

So you get 5X paying your Vistana MF's with your SPG Amex? That is a heck of a deal. I only get 2X. I am dumping the SPG card for this one.

My issue is that I rarely ever pay for air tickets or hotel stays. I use points from SPG, Marriott, and airline points (Delta, Hawaiian, United...) So the 1.5X bump using UR redemption for travel may not be something that I could benefit from. I may apply and then transfer the 100K to my Marriott account. :) $150 Net membership fee a year is pretty rich. I figure if I use SPG Amex, transfer at 3X Marriott Points, then redeem travel package may still come out ahead. I have been "gaining" a couple of thousand $ each time I redeem for travel package.
 

rickandcindy23

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Again, my figures already included the 3X points. I need to think about this from the basic spend:

$16K in MF's = 48,000 points, then using them as UR portal points, I get 72,000 points. That is enough for $1,080 in airfare. That is an amazing realization, a real light-bulb moment for me.

And the Citi Costco doesn't pay enough for me. I use it for gas for 4X, and nothing else. But maybe I should be using another card for gas. I need to look at all of my cards again. I might as well figure out the best card for every purpose.

The $450 fee - $300 for travel (my MF's cover it), means I get lounge access (probably insignificant) and primary car insurance with the card (that saves $25 over the SPG Amex each car rental) because it's included. Plus, I can be generous with the kids and get pre check for them with the cards. We each have one.

Again, how do you get 5X for Vistana MF's with Amex? I have the Amex SPG, so I am curious. I could try to charge a small amount to the card and see, I guess.
 

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I purchased part of a United ticket with my points (I have gold status with United) and they would not upgrade me (even though there were seats) saying it was "free" ticket (it actually cost me $400 in cash + some points-I was buying 6 tickets so the savings was considerable but still). It was a huge hassle..so it does not always work in your favor to pay with points..also the agent considered it "international" even though it was U.S. to Cancun which it states on the united site is not in terms of upgrades..
 

rickandcindy23

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I purchased part of a United ticket with my points (I have gold status with United) and they would not upgrade me (even though there were seats) saying it was "free" ticket (it actually cost me $400 in cash + some points-I was buying 6 tickets so the savings was considerable but still). It was a huge hassle..so it does not always work in your favor to pay with points..also the agent considered it "international" even though it was U.S. to Cancun which it states on the united site is not in terms of upgrades..

This is why I buy First Class tickets to start. But I also only have status with Alaska, along with about a million other people. I just buy when the seats are cheap, and using the points, as I said above, makes a lot of sense for us. But again, we have a lot of MF's to pay, so the card's fee is a no-brainer for us.

I have a cousin named Chris who just moved to Medford, OR, and I know he owns timeshare and probably does have status with an airline or two. I know it would be like finding a needle in a haystack......
 

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I don't follow the statements that closely...however, I think you only get 2 points per MF dollar because MF spending is not consider to be a stay.
This is my understanding as well.
 

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Costco Visa gives me 3X on dining, 4X on gas and the card is free. My SPG Amex not only gives 5X on MF (2X for use of card, 3X for spending at the hotel), but also is able to transfer to Marriott Rewards at 3X. SPG Amex also now gives 2X on Marriott hotel spendings, after the merger. SPG Amex charges me $65 a year (they sent me a mail apologizing for the confusion about fee increase... indicating that there is no increase for me... I think that is because I put about 100K a year on that card). I am contemplating giving up my Marriott Visa since I no longer use it as between SPG Amex and Costco Visa, I have my rewards covered. I travel only on first class or business class, and usually use my Marriott points to convert to airline points to do so through use of travel package, and reading the above it sounds like the UR portal does not provide good deals on first class or business class tickets.

Am I missing anything?

I've been going through the same analysis lately. I don't have the Costco card so I won't comment on that. I mainly use the Amex Biz Plat, Amex SPG, Amex Hilton Surpass, JP Morgan Ritz, and Chase Sapphire Reserve. The card I use every time is based on maximizing rewards and benefits based on yearly charges.

For instance, Amex Biz Plat is used for $5,000+ single purchases (several of those per year because of Biz and tuition:mad:). Amex Hilton Surpass for Hilton, Gas, Supermarkets, and other purchases to meet minimum $40,000 required to maintain HH Diamond. JP Morgan Ritz is mainly a benefits card which pays for itself, but I may use it to maintain Ritz Plat status if I know I will loose for the following year ($75K min spend) but thankfully the merger covered me for now because of 5* Elite. Chase Sapphire for travel and restaurants. Amex SPG for everything else. I have many other CC with waived/no fees which I just keep for credit score purposes.

My personal travel is very well covered with the various reward currencies this way. Biz travel generates a significant amount of my personal travel expenses because of the amount of rewards it generates. I even cash in surplus rewards via my Biz.

Regarding F tixs, I think mile redemption is def the way to go. Or just buy it if it's a must. Getting upgrades is not what it used to be, speacially on busy routes...
 

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I did break down and apply for a Sapphire Reserve card last night. I looked at the UR portal and checked a few flights that I had already booked and did not find the airlines that I prefer to use.

When I fly, non-stop flights trump all other flights for me.
1. The result did not return Hawaiian Airlines which would have been a non-stop flight.
2. I take some direct domestic flights on the west coast of US and Southwest usually flies non-stop. Southwest was not returned as an option.
3. I am flying back from Europe (one-way) next Spring on DeltaOne (first class) and it only cost me 80K Delta miles (already redeemed) or around USD4.7K in cash. Other airlines were shown on the portal or >300K UR points.

I also checked rental car for an upcoming trip. I have a full-size car reservation with Costco for about $20 per day for 2 weeks. UR returned me with more than double that rate for a full-size car.

My conclusion so far is that UR travel redemption is a no-go for me, so the 1.5X is just fluff (for me).

I will stick with the 3X for dining and possibly use for some travel. SPG Amex is still the card for me to use for travel booking and all other daily charges. After a year, I will cancel the card and revert to Costco card or Marriott Visa for dining.
 
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Chase Sapphire Reserve gets 3X on MF's.

I was thinking you were talking about SPG points. Yes, you do get 3X on Sapphire Reserve.


I actually don't look at my starpoint activities. But I pulled this off the Amex SPG site today and that's why I thought 5X.
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/site/card/starwood-preferred-guest/25330

I was confused about this too. But I have been paying my Vistana mortgage with SPG, and only get 2X, which all comes from the Amex SPG card. I think the 3X points only come when you have a hotel stay (and 5X, I don't understand at all). I haven't stayed at an SPG hotel since I got my card earlier this year. I usually stay at Hiltons. :D Though might be soon, since I'm getting all these points now. :D

When I look on my SPG account, I only see bonus points generated from the Amex card, so I doubt MF is more than 2X.
 
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1. I booked my last flight to Kauai nonstop, through the portal on Hawaiian Air. Hawaiian is bookable through the portal.

2. You can transfer the points directly to Southwest, and that makes the value of the 100K more like $1,750, instead of the $1,500 through the portal.

3. The UR Portal is based on cash prices.

If I could even get a single seat on Hawaiian or Alaska with 40K points, it's hard to do, RT would be 80K points, which I have transferred from SPG in the past. My SPG gets the 2X on MF's. That is a $40K spend at 2X Starwood fees. I would love to be able to book two of those seats, but they don't allow for two award seats on flight, initially. I cannot wait for them to open another award seat to book, so I have to pay cash for one seat. Kind of annoying. With timeshares being weekends, I need to fly weekends to Maui. There is huge competition for those seats, especially during whale season.

The realization of the impossibility to get two seats from Denver to Maui with award miles made me rethink my plan. I started looking at First Class seats from the coast, finding the cheapest ones, then booking with the UR portal, way ahead of time, to get the low-cost seats. Then we fly Southwest to the coast, spend a night on the way there and on the way back, all with points. It's been working great. But honestly, I miss the Alaska companion code, which worked for First Class seats to/from Denver wonderfully. Now it's just economy, and I am so spoiled.
 

VacationForever

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I was confused about this too. But I have been paying my Vistana mortgage with SPG, and only get 2X, which all comes from the Amex SPG card. I think the 3X points only come when you have a hotel stay (and 5X, I don't understand at all). I haven't stayed at an SPG hotel since I got my card earlier this year. I usually stay at Hiltons. :D Though might be soon, since I'm getting all these points now. :D

When I look on my SPG account, I only see bonus points generated from the Amex card, so I doubt MF is more than 2X.

My bad. But still, at 2X Starpoints for MF, it gets converted to 6X Marriott Reward Points, which is where I do most of my point redemption for air miles anyway through travel package. If you use Sapphire Reserve, you only get 3X when convert the points to Marriott or 4.5X using the UR travel booking portal.
 
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