*ads are disabled when logged in*
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We completed the upgrade of the TUGBBS forums recently and are still working on issues/customizations/changes etc. Please post in the thread in the ABOUT TUGBBS section with your feedback. Note if you are unable to log in or access the forums please email us at tug@tug2.net!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. With the upgrade to the new forum, tapatalk is not functioning properly and we have had little to no support from them in fixing the problem. That said, the new forum is fully configured to support mobile devices so if you are missing being able to visit TUG on your phone try disabling tapatalk and just using your phone/tablet browser to see the new look!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
    Dismiss Notice

Pacific Property Transfer - Scam Artists?

Discussion in 'Buying, Selling, Renting' started by Dorian, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    [Title changed at OP's request - DeniseM]

    ------------

    Ok, I will try to keep this short....

    Mid September I win an auction on eBay for 74,000 annual points at Vacation Village Parkway for $1.25.

    Right out of the gate I begin having issues with the title transfer company (Pacific Transfer) where they try to charge me extra fees but I successfully deny them. Then a series of blunders on their end like errors in the contract they had to rewrite which took several weeks, people out of the office that were needed to complete my paperwork, them accusing someone from the county for messing up, etc. So finally in the beginning of November they tell me that they have everything taken care of and sent my info to Vacation Village. I patiently wait and hear nothing for a few weeks and then find out that the check they sent to Vacation Village was made out to the wrong company and had to be sent back for correction. Fast forward to early December and Pacific Transfer tells me that they sent the correct check to Vacation Village and all is finally done. Well, three days ago I start inquiring as to where my points are and was told that the property that I won was deeded into another persons name. WTH? I do have a copy of the deed that Pacific Transfer sent to me and a copy of the Docusign electronic contract that shows everything that I purchased. Vacation Village believes that they sold this property to two people (either on purpose or accident who knoes?) and because his name was deeded four days before mine in their eyes it belongs to the other person.

    I am hoping that Pacific will have to come up with a way either by getting my property back by telling the other guy they made a mistake or giving me another property of at least equal value/points, including the unused 74,000 2012 points I thought I bought. I believe my deed and electronic contract showing what I bought should make them honor out agreement.

    This has been a nightmare!!!! I am going to start by filing a complaint with eBay, opening a a case with the California Attorney Generals Office (where Pacific Transfer resides), and getting an attorney,

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2013
  2. presley

    presley TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,061
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I value my time much higher than that. I would just ask for a refund. There are risks involved with all resale purchases.
     
  3. klpca

    klpca TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    2,503
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Southern CA
    Resorts Owned:
    Marriott (SR), SDO, Quarter House, Donatello, Seapointe, Coronado Beach
    Did a deed get recorded with your name on it? I'm confused.

    I had similar issues with Pacific Transfer - errors caused by inattention to detail - although not quite as significant as yours. If you don't legally own something, at this point I'd ask for the refund and start over again with another property from another seller. I'm not sure what to tell you if they recorded the deed in your name.
     
  4. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    I am confused as well! And yes, I have a recorded deed with my name on it. Not sure how this could have even happened but Vacation Village states that because the other guys was recorded first that is the one they will honor. It's all very confusing. At the very least the Attorney General will have a new case opened with their office.
     
  5. lcml11

    lcml11 Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The resort may be right, first deed filed wins. Seeking legal advise is a great way to go. Wish you luck.

    If it turns out the other person does not want it, my guess is the new owner will need to deed the timeshare over to you. Be prepared, this may cost a decent piece of change to resove your involvement in a timeshare that appears now to have major title problems.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  6. bogey21

    bogey21 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Messages:
    5,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    You are spending too much time on this unless you have a lot of time with nothing to do. If you can get a refund of all your money ($1.25 plus closing costs), just walk away. Getting an attorney will cost you dollars your will never recover. Complaing to the Attorney General and Ebay and following up with both will take significant time and effort. You can always find another Week to buy.

    George
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  7. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    You may be right and I have arrived at the conclusion that I may have to accept that. However, this reseller deals in dozens and dozens of timeshare resales and my hope is that they just offer me another property of at least equal points/value. You'd think they'd rather not get a case filed against them and me sharing my story with everyone I can.

    Thank you all for your advice/consideration
     
  8. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    Time is something that I don't have much of but I just hate to walk away with no repercussions against them after jacking me around for over three months. Thank you bogey, I will consider your advice.
     
  9. lcml11

    lcml11 Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    For what ever it is worth, they might do that. If they do, make sure they get your name off of the disputed deed.
     
  10. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    Excellent point, thank you lcml11!
     
  11. lcml11

    lcml11 Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Your welcome.
     
  12. Saintsfanfl

    Saintsfanfl TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Fwiw the Attorney General is not going to care one little bit about a clerical error on a deed. There is no crime being committed. Deed mistakes happen all the time. Ebay is also not going to care one bit as long as you get your money back. You can't even leave negative feedback since it has been over 60 days.

    This is the annoying price for dealing with PCC's that have a known sloppy reputation. It's best to just get a refund and move on.
     
  13. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    What I do have is a signed contract with what I purchased. I will take my chances. Thanks for your perspective however.
     
  14. Saintsfanfl

    Saintsfanfl TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central Florida
    A contract is a civil matter. It only becomes a criminal matter if there is fraud. For fraud to have occurred there has to be evidence of intent. Considering they do thousands of transactions per year intent just wouldn't make sense. You may have a good case if you really want the timeshare, but it would be in civil court and not with the attorney general.

    That said if your goal is to get them to offer you something else then you are on the right track.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  15. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    I'd be thrilled if they offered me something else of equal value (RCI points). Problem is that they won't even respond to emails or phone calls anymore. I have spoken to people at Pacific and they say someone will get back to me and of course they never do. Now my calls just go to voice mail and emails are ignored as of this week and that is where it becomes criminal in my opinion. I've lost money and I can't even get a response to rectify the situation.
     
  16. lcml11

    lcml11 Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Attorney General's Offices tend to decide for themselves what is jurisdictional to them and if it is criminal or not and if criminal, if they are going to prosecute the firm(s) involved. The complaints are typically free to file and can be done on-line in some if not all states.
     
  17. Saintsfanfl

    Saintsfanfl TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Who was the ebay lister you originally dealt with? SellTimeShare.org uses a few different ones. Who sent you the initial purchase agreements? Who was assigned to handle your closing at Pacific Timeshare?
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  18. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    Lister was Matt Shell/SellTimeShare.org
    Purchase agreements was Stepahanie Box/Pacific
    Closer was Marianne Arteaga/Pacific
     
  19. Saintsfanfl

    Saintsfanfl TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I have dealt with Matt and Stephanie but not Marianne. Another closer I have dealt with and dealing with currently is Ashley Kahane. Are you sure they are the ones who sold the property twice or could the original seller have sold it after agreeing on a transfer with selltimeshare.org? Just covering the bases.
     
  20. Dorian

    Dorian TUG Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Prescott, WI
    I don't know and I have no idea how I'd find out. The fact that they quit returning my calls or emails leads me to believe they are at fault. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they made an honest mistake, even in spite of all the errors they've already made, but you'd think they'd at least try to fix this somehow by offering me another RCI points property with at least the same amount of annual points including the 2012 points that would have rolled over. I don't even care what resort it's at because I'll never visit there anyway. From my perspective they've taken my money, messed up, and are just hoping I'll forget about it and go away. This is why I will open a case with the CA Atty Generals office. It's criminal/fraud from where I am sitting.

    Thanks for the info by the way
     
  21. Saintsfanfl

    Saintsfanfl TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2012
    Messages:
    6,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Considering they handle closings by preparing documents directly between the original seller and the buyer, it would not surprise me if the original seller sold it to someone else after engaging Selltimeshare.org. It also would not surprise me one bit if SellTimeShare screwed up and are dragging their feet because they have bigger fish to fry. There are reports on TUG of them selling either the wrong item or something they supposedly did not have a right to sell and in these reported cases it took a while to get the money back. Personally I haven't had any major issues with them as of yet.
     
  22. theo

    theo TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,898
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    New England Coast
    Color me dubious...

    While I sympathize with your plight and frustration, I sincerely doubt that any AG office will regard what appears to be a series of procedural errors by a clearly incompetent closing entity, involving a purchase for all of $1.25, as being a matter worthy of a single moment of their time or involvement.

    There is a saying "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity alone" (...or similar words to that effect). Methinks that this adage seems to fit the bumbling bozos at your obscure, wannabe "closing company" quite nicely. Get your closing fees (you don't actually specify if any were even paid by you in the first place) reimbursed from these bumbling bozos and just call it a day and move on --- after you address and resolve voiding the deed improperly and belatedly recorded with your name on it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  23. topmom101

    topmom101 TUG Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Long Island, New York
    I am reading your posts and it's like deja vu. Same situation applies to me with same seller and title company. This past January I won a bid on EBay for a TS in Aruba. The seller was Lukas Gilkey from SellTimeshares.org. The title company was Pacific Transfer, Gina Sullivan (no relation). We went thru the entire process only to find out from the resort (LaCabana) that the deed was transferred a few days prior to someone else.

    Lukas expressed shock when we confronted him and claimed innocence. He explained to us that the seller must have listed their TS with multiple companies. He also promised he would find a similar week in his vast inventory and give me the same deal I had on E-Bay, but of course, I never heard from him. Repeated calls to Gina at Pacific were also never returned. I wrote letters and left countless voice mails... a month later, I gave it up.
    I hope you have better luck than I had.

    Mariella Sullivan
     
  24. lcml11

    lcml11 Guest

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Was your name ever taken off the deed or did you get your money back or is this just the way it goes?
     
  25. richardm

    richardm TUG Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Orlando
    Ebay incompetence is not fraud- it's to be expected!

    I agree.. I doubt the AG is interested in pursuing a case over an ebay seller who is incompetent. Stupidity should be illegal, but it's not..

    If this was a licensed real estate broker you could file a complaint for dereliction of duty with the state regulatory agency- but for an unlicensed entity you don't have anyone to complain to that will make a difference. This is the risk of dealing with unlicensed eBay resellers that you accept simply by placing a bid!

    File a claim with ebay, file a claim with the BBB, file a credit card dispute- and insist that a corrective recording be filed. Better yet, spend a little money and have an attorney review whatever they prepare, then record it yourself to ensure you protect yourself as much as possible.

    While the Berkley Group may have told you today that you don't own anything- I wouldn't count on that if the other "buyer" doesn't pay his fees. The developer cares about cash! And if it turns out you are a better target for collection than the other guy- it wouldn't surprise me for the resort to suddenly decide down the road that the recorded deed in your name makes you "liable" for unpaid assessments on your "ownership".


    QUOTE=Saintsfanfl;1399571]Fwiw the Attorney General is not going to care one little bit about a clerical error on a deed. There is no crime being committed. Deed mistakes happen all the time. Ebay is also not going to care one bit as long as you get your money back. You can't even leave negative feedback since it has been over 60 days.

    This is the annoying price for dealing with PCC's that have a known sloppy reputation. It's best to just get a refund and move on.[/QUOTE]
     

Share This Page