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no good deed goes unpunished

ronparise

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I've seen people attacked here for having the nerve to suggest they were happy they paid the extra to get VIP benefits. Some sites attract positive attitudes.. some are geared more toward negative. To each his own.

And here is where I get attacked....


If someone asks "did I get a good deal buying 105000 points from wyndham for $20000" and I say "no, given that the same thing could be had on ebay for $500, thats not a good deal" you ought to rescind

Or if someone asks "does it make sense to pay $150000+ to buy a Platinum membership, and I say "Platinum benefits are great, but not worth $150000, and more than that you can buy more points and get the same number of reservations for less than $10000 on the secondary market"... and then I go on to do the math showing that even paying the increased maintenance fees (on 2 million pts resale vs 1 million retail) you still do so much better

So if I say these things, am I attacking the guy that asked the question? I might even say that they made a stupid financial decision.... Is that an attack?... or is it negative? I dont think so.. Im speaking to the decision (and it was stupid) not the decision maker and Im using that decision to help others... at least thats my intent
 
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CruiseGuy

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Yes, but there are those on that page that maintain that it can be a good decision to buy retail given the perks from Wyndham, especially those who have various VIP status and maintain that the discounts they get are worth the additional price they paid. They don't get that almost no one will ever be able to justify the increased cost with VIP discounts at retail price verus resale costs on personal use basis. There's a couple who will never be convinced, or they cannot bear to think that they may have made a poor decision. So they have a lot of negative things to say about those who speak up in favor of resale. The sad thing is that this misleads others into thinking that a retail purchase may be a wise decision when it's probably not.
 

ronparise

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Yes, but there are those on that page that maintain that it can be a good decision to buy retail given the perks from Wyndham, especially those who have various VIP status and maintain that the discounts they get are worth the additional price they paid. They don't get that almost no one will ever be able to justify the increased cost with VIP discounts at retail price verus resale costs on personal use basis. There's a couple who will never be convinced, or they cannot bear to think that they may have made a poor decision. So they have a lot of negative things to say about those who speak up in favor of resale. The sad thing is that this misleads others into thinking that a retail purchase may be a wise decision when it's probably not.


Thats why I am so vocal on the subject... Its for the guy that might be convinced by a VIP owner that buying VIP for himself might be a good idea
 

raygo123

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Thats why I am so vocal on the subject... Its for the guy that might be convinced by a VIP owner that buying VIP for himself might be a good idea
Maybe we should all go on the site and stir it up a bit

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 

DeniseM

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Wes is a TUG member, and has very likely read every post in this thread, so I doubt if you can blind-side him, and besides, what is the point?
 

wjappraise

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Wes is a TUG member, and has very likely read every post in this thread, so I doubt if you can blind-side him, and besides, what is the point?

I was joking.
And you are correct, sometimes "ignorance is bliss," but it is still ignorance, and the bliss is short lived.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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wjappraise

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I drank the Cool aid

That is what makes this forum valuable. I purchased retail VIP and it took me a couple of years of lurking, before I dared even post, feeling that my poor decision (actually a series of decisions as I bought up to top of the VIP ladder) made me a poor candidate for advice/answers/opinions. I have learned that many others are in my exact position, and we can all offer something to the community.
 
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Ty1on

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There is no better qualification for giving advice than having made a mistake and learned from it.
 

ronparise

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There is no better qualification for giving advice than having made a mistake and learned from it.


Some call that experience.
And thats the only reason I presume to give advice here. Ive had more experience (read, made more mistakes) than almost anyone.
 

whitewater

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the group is less than helpful.... Its much more robust and easy to search. Same questions every few days there because of how things drop off.
 

dioxide45

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My wife is a member of a few Facebook groups, I am a member of none. Shoot, I don't even have a Facebook account. I wonder sometimes if I should just so I can follow some of the Marriott and timeshare groups. I don't know if I could take it. I have tried to read a few when using my wife's iPad and the flow isn't as easy to follow. I even have a hard time using the II Community forums.
 

markb53

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It's been a while but I was tossed out of a Facebook group. I think because I refused to work with the founder of the group on rentals. He wanted me to raise my prices to match his. I refused and next thing I knew I was tossed out

I dropped out of that FB group when it became appearent that Wes was deleting threads talked positively about resale.
 

Larry M

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...I also see this with people on the Nextdoor app. that block you or complain if you don't agree with them. Same people try turning the group against you because they don't know how discuss a difference of opinion. Now don't argue with me, just admit I'm right

Nextdoor indeed. Two conflicting threads on my local one right now. One is looking for arborists right now to take out some trees in his yard. Another is bemoaning the removal of a large oak tree to accommodate public school expansion, organizing protests, and fostering establishment of a neighborhood council to rule on whether you can remove trees from your lot.
 

Larry M

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Some call that experience.
And thats the only reason I presume to give advice here. Ive had more experience (read, made more mistakes) than almost anyone.

Good judgement comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgement.
 

tschwa2

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There were 3-5 times as many people on that site saying not to use points for airlines. The majority said that unless you have points that are definitely going to expire and you couldn't use them for Wyndham stays or even rci stays in a pinch that using them for air or things like MF is not a good idea. So there is always one or two who don't get that and "attack" others who they feel are attacking their choices. I don't think the site is nearly as imbalanced as this thread makes them out to be.

To all the newbies there (and here) looking for advice and hearing how great the VIP benefits are, I just like to remind them that yeah they are great but many on that site who enjoy those perks bought years ago when it might not have been as expensive to reach those statuses. If you are really prepared to spend $80,000-$100,000+ in addition to $5000+ annually (which rise every year) on MF to Wyndham, than you want to look carefully at the benefits to make your decision. If you are looking to spend less than $50,000 buying resale and paying out of pocket for the pecks you want will get you much more than spending $30,000-$50,000 buying direct with Wyndham.
 

paxsarah

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There were 3-5 times as many people on that site saying not to use points for airlines. The majority said that unless you have points that are definitely going to expire and you couldn't use them for Wyndham stays or even rci stays in a pinch that using them for air or things like MF is not a good idea. So there is always one or two who don't get that and "attack" others who they feel are attacking their choices. I don't think the site is nearly as imbalanced as this thread makes them out to be.

To all the newbies there (and here) looking for advice and hearing how great the VIP benefits are, I just like to remind them that yeah they are great but many on that site who enjoy those perks bought years ago when it might not have been as expensive to reach those statuses. If you are really prepared to spend $80,000-$100,000+ in addition to $5000+ annually (which rise every year) on MF to Wyndham, than you want to look carefully at the benefits to make your decision. If you are looking to spend less than $50,000 buying resale and paying out of pocket for the pecks you want will get you much more than spending $30,000-$50,000 buying direct with Wyndham.

I agree with this. I post there sporadically from my position as a small-potatoes resale-only owner, and haven't gotten much pushback. I think both there and here have a lot of folks who made developer purchases in the past that may or may have not gotten them up to VIP level, and both have folks who are just trying to get the best use out of the ownership they have. The main difference I see is that over there, even once they become aware of the opportunity to purchase resale, there are still some stories of having gone back in to spend tens of thousands of dollars to add to their ownerships, and congratulations ensue. There's little sense of an objective reality in which those dollars will never be recouped.

Here, of course, the response is almost always to rescind, and that is almost always the correct course of action - or, encouragement to realistically do the math in those few scenarios where an additional developer purchase to gain VIP levels might break even sooner rather than later. Over there, I feel fairly comfortable stating the choices I've made with my ownership and why, and sharing information (that can usually be easily looked up in the directory or online) but I pretty much ignore conversations about recent developer purchases where people seem happy about their choice.
 

raygo123

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As I stated earlier, an almost state of bliss. In a way, it's kinda refreshing. A lighter side. Don't worry be happy!

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wjappraise

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I don't think the site is nearly as imbalanced as this thread makes them out

Hmmm. But that site has kicked off several who post here regularly enough to have earned a reputation as being fair minded. If the keeper of the FB account views them as heretics, I see that as unbalanced. Or egotistical and controlling.


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tschwa2

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IMO The keeper of the FB page is worried about getting into the bad graces of Wyndham and doesn't want people who post nothing but rescind, rescind, rescind. As long as you acknowledge that there are real perks to having VIP and that there are people who have the money to spend who may find it worthwhile and don't attack those that have drank the cool aid and are happy with the cook aid. It also doesn't help to tell people to rescind when they are past the time to rescind. The site would rather not make those people feel bad about what they have done. There are plenty who post that they bought retail but then added on with resale and/or wish they knew about resale before buying.
 

TUGBrian

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I dont think this thread was meant to specifically "call out" one particular group, as the actions of deliberately discouraging solid financial advice to new owners is shared by a good number of these groups.

its just incredibly sad that there are owners who still have their one and only chance to rescind and do research find a site that specifically prevents anyone from telling them about that chance.

that is flat out inexcusable.

if everyone were getting a fair deal, then simply informing owners of their one and only chance to rescind would of be no risk whatsoever and very few owners would even utilize the option to do so.

they know full well that darn near anyone who takes the time to gain the knowledge they need to make an informed decision on their first timeshare purchase is FAR more likely to buy resale than from a resort...or at the very least knows well enough to spot the developer "misleading" statements and or negotiate for a better deal.

/rant off
 
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