Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Points for sale on E-Bay

[Y-ASK]

Folks - discussing this in the abstract is permitted on TUG - making offers is not.

So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?

Y-ASK

 

[classiclincoln]

Read the Ebay ad and I think it's a great idea. If you can sell all your points for $4,300, the value of the week(s) you enrolled is $4,300. If it cost you $2,000 to enroll the weeks, you made out like a bandit! Never thought of that! Looking at it from a financial standpoint, assuming you paid $2,000 to enroll your weeks to get the 5775 points, as long as you get .35 per point, you made your enrollment fee back. Nice!

 

[Clark]

It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners. It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.
Greg

I can think of another site that could easily incorporate such a feature. What is the notion here -- something showing the number of points an owner is offering, the asking price, the expiration date of the points, and a way to contact the offering party?

Also, I am not entirely clear on the concept of "renting points" ??

 

[BocaBum99]

I can think of another site that could easily incorporate such a feature. What is the notion here -- something showing the number of points an owner is offering, the asking price, the expiration date of the points, and a way to contact the offering party?

Also, I am not entirely clear on the concept of "renting points" ??

Yeah, www.eBay.com

 

[m61376]

Simple. When owners get behind on their mortgage payments, they find they can't sell it, they have points they aren't going to use, then they take anything that they can get. I expect to get point for about $.15/point in a year.

Now that would be the best reason to consider joining yet....

 

[GregT]

All,

Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.

By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers. The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.

eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging). A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!

A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available). I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal. If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.

Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,

Greg

 

[DeniseM]

So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?

Y-ASK

Specific discussions about your own rentals, are usually not permitted on TUG. However, since someone other than the owner of the Ad posted it, and it was a new concept that promoted a discussion, I did not close the thread. After one user made an offer in the thread, past experience indicated that it was a good idea to clarify the rules in the thread, before more offers were made.

Per TUG rules - if you have any other questions about moderating, please contact the Mod privately.

 

[NJDave]

Good luck with your auction. If you get that price, the Marriott Vacation Club points system is a winner. Unfortunately, I think you will be lucky to get $.30/point.

I would be willing to pay up to $.30 per point if I needed 1,000 points to top off my account to get the exchange I wanted (I am not enrolled so this is not an offer).

Since we generally don't rent Marriotts as an Marriott owner, I would not pay the going rental price to obtain an entire exchange.

It would be interesting to hear what others would be willing to pay.

 

[scpoidog]

All,

Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.

By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers. The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.

eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging). A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!

A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available). I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal. If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.

Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,

Greg

Thanks for sharing the information. As this is a new concept it the rental marketplace will definitely need a new home.

 

[BocaBum99]

All,

Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.

By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers. The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.

eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging). A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!

A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available). I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal. If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.

Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,

Greg

The 20 watchers are other Marriott owners trying to see if your experiment works. They want to know if the rental market exists so that they can profit from it, too.

Sadly, the price point you have set is way too high. What you should do is put an auction up with a $1 opening bid. There are so many people watching it now, that you will be able to determine an approximate market value by doing it. My guess is that it is between $.20-.30/point. Won't be hard to get them wholesale at around $.15. But, that is just my guess. We need more participants before this will take off. It will take 6-12 months for there to be a critical mass of enrolled members.

 

[SMB1]

Venter,

Thank you -- you are correct it is my auction, and it is an experiment that I'm running. Personally, I think one of the most important things about the Marriott system is the ability to transfer points.

We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range. But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.

I've been waiting for someone to pick up the ad because I am interested to hear the dialogue around the framework I've created. I've actually been running the experiment for 2 weeks now (but was restricted to Lodging until I figured out how to move it over to For Sale). It's made a big difference in Viewers -- original ad was 153 viewers with 3 watchers, current ad (after 6 hours) is 24 Viewers with 1 watcher.

So, this really is an experiment -- my current thought on why so little contact are as follows (but too early for conclusions):

1) Renting points is still a new concept in the Marriott world
2) $0.75 - $1.00 is (much) too high
3) 2012 is too far off for people to be planning about now
4) eBay is not a good forum for people to check (Lodging at least)

One of the big reasons I enrolled is because I believe transferring points is very very powerful. I expect it will take time for a market to develop, but why own (more) points if you can rent them cheaply (and I don't mean $1.00)?

I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).

I'm just curious. Thanks for picking it up, I figured I'd post on it when the listing ended to avoiding appearance of promoting it. It really is an experiment and I value TUGgers input.

And the thoughts on the numbers of points available to rent out are that I would still have 4,450 points left over, which can get me 5 nights in MOC Lahaina Mtn/Garden, which I think is a good points value to piggyback onto my other week.

Thanks again!

Greg

Greg, VERY interesting experiment! I'm interested both as a buyer and as a seller. As a matter of fact it seems as though unless is right around .35-45 pionts, which would seem to be about a wash, one could be happy with either end of the spectrum. I would be happy to rent/sell points at a decent profit. I would also be happy to rent/buy several hundred or a thousand points to add 2 or 3 nights to a weeks reservation at .20-.30 per point.

 

[jimf41]

Boca,

I've read your posts about resale points being worth .20 t0 .30 cents per point. I'm curious as to how you arrived at this number. It seems awfully low to me. I have a Plat OS 2bdrm unit at Ocean Point. If I turn it in for points I get 4325. At .20 PP resale rental that would net me $865, at .30 PP it would get me $1297, at .15 PP "wholesale" it would get me $650. The MF are about $1250 on this unit, the average rental asking price on Redweek is about $2000. Why would anyone turn in for points and then rent them for $700 to $1300 less than a straight week rental? I don't think there has ever been a 2bdrm unit rent for less than the MF 12 months out.

At Ocean Pointe at least, I don't think your point value estimates are accurate.

There won't be many last minute point rental deals IMO because folks that use points are going to use them at least 12 months out. You can't get a good deal on a last minute distressed week because you have to use the points as points.

 

[camachinist]

Running my past revenues at NCV and comparing to the current points charts, anyone who could rent points for under .60/pt for gold and under .50/pt for platinum would be dollars ahead, presuming full week stays.

Also, with the current dynamic of disappearing inventory in MARSHA, it is possible that owner rentals will see increased demand, depending on how the points system impliments. The casual user, which all of my historical tenants have been, IMO, will be more likely to rent for cash from an owner (or Marriott, through MARSHA) rather than play the points game. They see a week/use period they like and rent it for cash, if the price is right.

Also, when I see 'for sale' and 'resale', I think 'own'. I don't get the impression we're talking about 'buying' points in this thread, rather 'renting' them to make a reservation for occupancy. Please correct me as appropriate. My numbers were regarding renting.

 

[BocaBum99]

Boca,

I've read your posts about resale points being worth .20 t0 .30 cents per point. I'm curious as to how you arrived at this number. It seems awfully low to me. I have a Plat OS 2bdrm unit at Ocean Point. If I turn it in for points I get 4325. At .20 PP resale rental that would net me $865, at .30 PP it would get me $1297, at .15 PP "wholesale" it would get me $650. The MF are about $1250 on this unit, the average rental asking price on Redweek is about $2000. Why would anyone turn in for points and then rent them for $700 to $1300 less than a straight week rental? I don't think there has ever been a 2bdrm unit rent for less than the MF 12 months out.

At Ocean Pointe at least, I don't think your point value estimates are accurate.

There won't be many last minute point rental deals IMO because folks that use points are going to use them at least 12 months out. You can't get a good deal on a last minute distressed week because you have to use the points as points.

It won't be you who will rent points for $.15/point. It will be someone who converted to points and can't figure out what to do with them. I said the price range is just a guess. I base my guess based on other systems that have points and can transfer that I have experience with.

 

[GregT]

The 20 watchers are other Marriott owners trying to see if your experiment works. They want to know if the rental market exists so that they can profit from it, too.

Sadly, the price point you have set is way too high. What you should do is put an auction up with a $1 opening bid. There are so many people watching it now, that you will be able to determine an approximate market value by doing it. My guess is that it is between $.20-.30/point.

I definitely agree -- the vast majority of the watchers have to be curious if there is a rental market (yet). I also agree that $1.00 is too high, but I'm not so sure about the $0.75 buy it. That may entice someone and a part of the experiment (especially if they just paid $9.20 and are paying $0.40/point -- a $0.35 premium isn't outrageous where there are limited renting options of big point blocks).

Greg, VERY interesting experiment! I'm interested both as a buyer and as a seller.

What is interesting (to me at least) is that if rental prices are high, then I'm a rentor.

If rental prices are low (as per Boca's prediction) than I am a rentee for the points system.

I still think it settles on a range of $0.30 - $0.60, based primarily on the time remaining until the point expires.

I suspect it will take time for all of this to evolve, but it's interesting to speculate.

All the best,

Greg

 

[NJDave]

.

I still think it settles on a range of $0.30 - $0.60, based primarily on the time remaining until the point expires.

At $.30 per point, I would buy points. At $.60, I would sell. However, selling Orlando for $1,590 ($.60 x 2,650) sounds too good to be true.

 

[GregT]

TUGgers,

To close out the experiment (or at least this phase), the auction ended without any bids.

There were 740 page views, 26 watchers and 2 questions -- both from individuals that were pretty unfamiliar with the points system.

I still believe my original comments in Post #2 that points rentals are still unfamiliar to Marriott users and $0.75 - $1.00 is too high a price for points. I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.

All the best,

Greg

 

[Bill4728]

Running my past revenues at NCV and comparing to the current points charts, anyone who could rent points for under .60/pt for gold and under .50/pt for platinum would be dollars ahead, presuming full week stays.

Also, with the current dynamic of disappearing inventory in MARSHA, it is possible that owner rentals will see increased demand, depending on how the points system impliments. The casual user, which all of my historical tenants have been, IMO, will be more likely to rent for cash from an owner (or Marriott, through MARSHA) rather than play the points game. They see a week/use period they like and rent it for cash, if the price is right.

I agree that for a casual tenant, they don't want to rent points then use them to make a reservation. They want a week at a resort with a clear price.

BUT to the educated Marriott DC owner, renting points may sometimes make sense.

 

[windje2000]

TUGgers,

To close out the experiment (or at least this phase), the auction ended without any bids.

There were 740 page views, 26 watchers and 2 questions -- both from individuals that were pretty unfamiliar with the points system.

I still believe my original comments in Post #2 that points rentals are still unfamiliar to Marriott users and $0.75 - $1.00 is too high a price for points. I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.

All the best,

Greg

One other factor that may have affected your auction is borrowing of future year points by the early adopters needing supplemental points for current reservations.

Whether or not borrowing for supplemental points needs changes over time to point rental remains to be seen. I doubt Marriott is going to champion a vigorous point rental market. Borrowing locks members in, provides future weeks and creates the opportunity for forfeitures if points 'remnants' are not used.

 

[DanCali]

I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.

At this range, especially the lower end, there is absolutely no need to buy points with a large upfront cost and $0.40 in MFs. Even if you think the points exchange is great, just enroll a week and then rent points to supplement the points you are missing to get where you want to go. A new buyer can buy the 1500 point minimum and supplement as needed.

Marriott totally shot itself in the foot by allowing owners to transfer points to each other...

 

[MOXJO7282]

Ebay is not the forum to get the best value, or even the fair market value from a seller's standpoint. Ebay is clearly a buyer's market so I wouldn't put to much stock in the experiment.

If I auctioned off my Maui weeks on ebay I'd probably get $2200. I easily get north of $3k for that same week on RW with a little patience.

I would have used RW. It would have cost you less, hits a better audience, and runs ads run much longer.

 

[GregT]

At this range, especially the lower end, there is absolutely no need to buy points with a large upfront cost and $0.40 in MFs. Even if you think the points exchange is great, just enroll a week and then rent points to supplement the points you are missing to get where you want to go. A new buyer can buy the 1500 point minimum and supplement as needed.

Marriott totally shot itself in the foot by allowing owners to transfer points to each other...

Dan,

I agree -- assuming $0.30 - $0.60 confirms as a price rental range, this would damage the argument to buy points. Buying a timeshare direct has always been a questionable proposition, but at least in the old days you had a deed to show for it.

Other timeshares (Wyndham) have done away with the ability to transfer points between owners because they realized it was competition. But Wyndham doesn't care about infuriating its owners, and therefore made the change (and other changes too). We'll find out over time if Marriott takes away the ability to transfer points, to eliminate the ability to compete in accessing points.

Interesting stuff,

Best to all,

Greg

 

[GregT]

Ebay is not the forum to get the best value, or even the fair market value from a seller's standpoint. Ebay is clearly a buyer's market so I wouldn't put to much stock in the experiment.

If I auctioned off my Maui weeks on ebay I'd probably get $2200. I easily get north of $3k for that same week on RW with a little patience.

I would have used RW. It would have cost you less, hits a better audience, and runs ads run much longer.

Joe,

Good points -- one of the issues (I think) is the idea is still so new that there isn't an obvious place to place rental ads. I'll probably re-run the experiment to give people the opportunity to make offers, so I can try to generate more data points. It's interesting to me because at one end of the range, I'll rent out points, at the other end of the range, I'll rent in points.

Redweek isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points rentals as their isn't a centralized place for it (that I've found at least).

I wish TUG would develop a sub-forum but I get the impression that it's too commercial for TUG's interest. The TUG marketplace isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points, so once it is, perhaps it will be the best of the options.

Thanks very much,

Greg

 

[taffy19]

Dan,

I agree -- assuming $0.30 - $0.60 confirms as a price rental range, this would damage the argument to buy points. Buying a timeshare direct has always been a questionable proposition, but at least in the old days you had a deed to show for it.

Other timeshares (Wyndham) have done away with the ability to transfer points between owners because they realized it was competition. But Wyndham doesn't care about infuriating its owners, and therefore made the change (and other changes too). We'll find out over time if Marriott takes away the ability to transfer points, to eliminate the ability to compete in accessing points.

Interesting stuff,

Best to all,

Greg

I believe that Marriott will allow it on a few occasions when you are short or over points yourself but that they will stop it immediately when owners are doing it on a regular basis because you are competition to their sales department. Wasn't that documented already?

Is it legal for them to stop it, if you own points? They cannot stop you from renting your own timeshare week as it is private property under real estate law. Do points fall under real estate law too?

I know that I would rather rent points than own them with yearly maintenance fees.

PS. Can a person, who isn't enrolled, rent points too or not?

 

[dioxide45]

I wish TUG would develop a sub-forum but I get the impression that it's too commercial for TUG's interest. The TUG marketplace isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points, so once it is, perhaps it will be the best of the options.

I dont' know what you mean that the TUG Marketplace isn't setup for Marriott MVCD point rentals. I have seen this mentioned in other threads. There is a point rental section listed in the TUG Marketplace. Nothing special needs to be done, no sub forum. Marriott doesn't deserve its very own section. Here is the link to that section.