So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?Folks - discussing this in the abstract is permitted on TUG - making offers is not.
Y-ASK
So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?Folks - discussing this in the abstract is permitted on TUG - making offers is not.
It would be in TUG's best interest to become the points rental spot of choice for Marriott points owners. It's the future of Marriott vacationing and will become incredibly valuable to skimmed points owners and retail points purchasers who didn't buy enough points.
Greg
I can think of another site that could easily incorporate such a feature. What is the notion here -- something showing the number of points an owner is offering, the asking price, the expiration date of the points, and a way to contact the offering party?
Also, I am not entirely clear on the concept of "renting points" ??
Now that would be the best reason to consider joining yet....Simple. When owners get behind on their mortgage payments, they find they can't sell it, they have points they aren't going to use, then they take anything that they can get. I expect to get point for about $.15/point in a year.
So why not just delete the entry and PM the poster instead making an example of the dastardly act?
Y-ASK
Good luck with your auction. If you get that price, the Marriott Vacation Club points system is a winner. Unfortunately, I think you will be lucky to get $.30/point.
All,
Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.
By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers. The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.
eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging). A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!
A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available). I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal. If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.
Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,
Greg
All,
Just an update for the curious -- after 2 1/2 days, the ad has now been viewed 355 times and there are 20 watchers -- but (importantly), no one has contacted me to ask any questions on process or pricing, so I can't tell if any watcher is serious.
By comparison, the Classified Ad listing that I've running now for 17 days in the Travel Lodging section has had 172 page views and has 3 watchers. The For Sale section is definitely the place to get the attention.
eBay is an impractical place to rent permanently, since it cost $36 to place the ad (the auction in For Sale) and $11 (in Lodging). A classified ad was preferred versus the auction but there was a $150 insertion fee for me -- and the experiment isn't worth that!!!
A dedicated forum needs to develop somewhere where people can simply list what they are offering and the asking price (and then edit their thread with RENTED when its no longer available). I hope TUG takes advantage of the opportunity and develops that sub-forum, since, IMHO, the Marketplace we have isn't optimal. If TUG doesn't wish to implement a sub-forum, perhaps a dedicated Marriott points marketplace would be a starting point, but only if editable to indicate the points are no longer available.
Best to all, and thanks again for the interest,
Greg
Venter,
Thank you -- you are correct it is my auction, and it is an experiment that I'm running. Personally, I think one of the most important things about the Marriott system is the ability to transfer points.
We had a separate thread speculating on what rental values would settle at, and I offered (and continue to believe) $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range. But some, (mostly non-TUGgers) speculated that it could reach $1.00 per point, which seems extremely high to me.
I've been waiting for someone to pick up the ad because I am interested to hear the dialogue around the framework I've created. I've actually been running the experiment for 2 weeks now (but was restricted to Lodging until I figured out how to move it over to For Sale). It's made a big difference in Viewers -- original ad was 153 viewers with 3 watchers, current ad (after 6 hours) is 24 Viewers with 1 watcher.
So, this really is an experiment -- my current thought on why so little contact are as follows (but too early for conclusions):
1) Renting points is still a new concept in the Marriott world
2) $0.75 - $1.00 is (much) too high
3) 2012 is too far off for people to be planning about now
4) eBay is not a good forum for people to check (Lodging at least)
One of the big reasons I enrolled is because I believe transferring points is very very powerful. I expect it will take time for a market to develop, but why own (more) points if you can rent them cheaply (and I don't mean $1.00)?
I'm just curious if there's anyone out there who bought 1,500 points and now realizes they can't do anything with them and figures out it's better to rent them for $0.75 (or $0.60 or $0.50).
I'm just curious. Thanks for picking it up, I figured I'd post on it when the listing ended to avoiding appearance of promoting it. It really is an experiment and I value TUGgers input.
And the thoughts on the numbers of points available to rent out are that I would still have 4,450 points left over, which can get me 5 nights in MOC Lahaina Mtn/Garden, which I think is a good points value to piggyback onto my other week.
Thanks again!
Greg
Boca,
I've read your posts about resale points being worth .20 t0 .30 cents per point. I'm curious as to how you arrived at this number. It seems awfully low to me. I have a Plat OS 2bdrm unit at Ocean Point. If I turn it in for points I get 4325. At .20 PP resale rental that would net me $865, at .30 PP it would get me $1297, at .15 PP "wholesale" it would get me $650. The MF are about $1250 on this unit, the average rental asking price on Redweek is about $2000. Why would anyone turn in for points and then rent them for $700 to $1300 less than a straight week rental? I don't think there has ever been a 2bdrm unit rent for less than the MF 12 months out.
At Ocean Pointe at least, I don't think your point value estimates are accurate.
There won't be many last minute point rental deals IMO because folks that use points are going to use them at least 12 months out. You can't get a good deal on a last minute distressed week because you have to use the points as points.
The 20 watchers are other Marriott owners trying to see if your experiment works. They want to know if the rental market exists so that they can profit from it, too.
Sadly, the price point you have set is way too high. What you should do is put an auction up with a $1 opening bid. There are so many people watching it now, that you will be able to determine an approximate market value by doing it. My guess is that it is between $.20-.30/point.
Greg, VERY interesting experiment! I'm interested both as a buyer and as a seller.
.
I still think it settles on a range of $0.30 - $0.60, based primarily on the time remaining until the point expires.
I agree that for a casual tenant, they don't want to rent points then use them to make a reservation. They want a week at a resort with a clear price.Running my past revenues at NCV and comparing to the current points charts, anyone who could rent points for under .60/pt for gold and under .50/pt for platinum would be dollars ahead, presuming full week stays.
Also, with the current dynamic of disappearing inventory in MARSHA, it is possible that owner rentals will see increased demand, depending on how the points system impliments. The casual user, which all of my historical tenants have been, IMO, will be more likely to rent for cash from an owner (or Marriott, through MARSHA) rather than play the points game. They see a week/use period they like and rent it for cash, if the price is right.
TUGgers,
To close out the experiment (or at least this phase), the auction ended without any bids.
There were 740 page views, 26 watchers and 2 questions -- both from individuals that were pretty unfamiliar with the points system.
I still believe my original comments in Post #2 that points rentals are still unfamiliar to Marriott users and $0.75 - $1.00 is too high a price for points. I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.
All the best,
Greg
I continue to think $0.30 - $0.60 is the right range for points rentals once a market develops and settles.
At this range, especially the lower end, there is absolutely no need to buy points with a large upfront cost and $0.40 in MFs. Even if you think the points exchange is great, just enroll a week and then rent points to supplement the points you are missing to get where you want to go. A new buyer can buy the 1500 point minimum and supplement as needed.
Marriott totally shot itself in the foot by allowing owners to transfer points to each other...
Ebay is not the forum to get the best value, or even the fair market value from a seller's standpoint. Ebay is clearly a buyer's market so I wouldn't put to much stock in the experiment.
If I auctioned off my Maui weeks on ebay I'd probably get $2200. I easily get north of $3k for that same week on RW with a little patience.
I would have used RW. It would have cost you less, hits a better audience, and runs ads run much longer.
I believe that Marriott will allow it on a few occasions when you are short or over points yourself but that they will stop it immediately when owners are doing it on a regular basis because you are competition to their sales department. Wasn't that documented already?Dan,
I agree -- assuming $0.30 - $0.60 confirms as a price rental range, this would damage the argument to buy points. Buying a timeshare direct has always been a questionable proposition, but at least in the old days you had a deed to show for it.
Other timeshares (Wyndham) have done away with the ability to transfer points between owners because they realized it was competition. But Wyndham doesn't care about infuriating its owners, and therefore made the change (and other changes too). We'll find out over time if Marriott takes away the ability to transfer points, to eliminate the ability to compete in accessing points.
Interesting stuff,
Best to all,
Greg
I wish TUG would develop a sub-forum but I get the impression that it's too commercial for TUG's interest. The TUG marketplace isn't yet set up to accomodate Marriott points, so once it is, perhaps it will be the best of the options.