Looking for advice on walking away from a WVR/ Club Wyndham timeshare

[TheHammer]

All,

First time poster here. I am looking for advice for my father who currently owns points through Club Wyndham. He has a Club Wyndham points contract and two PIC (whatever that is) contracts with more points through Wyndham. He and my now deceased mother spent the requisite 5-figure sum in the mid-2000s to buy into Club Wyndham and he is now looking into getting out from under this debt and fee burden. He still owes money on the mortgage/loan, so the timeshare isn't even paid off yet. I have already prevented him from paying a scam company to "sell" the timeshare for him.

What I am asking is this - what will happen to him if he simply walks away from the loan and the timeshare, i.e. stops paying both the loan payments and the HOA and maintenance fees? Will Wyndham eventually foreclose and relieve him of the burden? Is there any way for Wyndham to go after his other assets? He still owns my childhood home (which magically has a HELOC out on it) and inherited my grandparents' home (unencumbered, luckily).

Background caveats:
1. We are not worried about hits to his credit, I am pretty sure it is already terrible, and relieving him of the monthly payments will far outweigh any negative effects at this point. He also doesn't have the means or the intention to ever buy actual real estate again.

2. Since he still owes money on the loan, from what I have already read on this site, the timeshare is worthless and we could expect little to nothing back from selling it anyway, even if someone would agree to take on the payments.

3. It is not worth my time to sell the timeshare on eBay or anywhere else and help him do the transfer paperwork. My career and my family time are worth more to me than the few bucks we'd make back on it.

4. I have no intention of keeping any of his timeshares when the inevitable day comes that I inherit them, so him keeping this thing until it's paid off is not an option.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[ronparise]

how much is still owed.. If its been 10 years ("mid 2000's" ie 2007 to 2017 ??) its got to be nearly paid off... and how many points .. If it started at $100,000 Im guessing 700,000 or more, If thats the case, someone here might be willing to pay it off and buy it. and I have a client that might be interested


dont pay and its like any other mortgage, the lender will foreclose and may come after the other assets

 

[uscav8r]

how much is still owed.. If its been 10 years ("mid 2000's" ie 2007 to 2017 ??) its got to be nearly paid off... and how many points .. If it started at $100000 Im guessing 700,000 or more, If thats the case, someone here might be willing to pay it off and buy it. and I have a client that might be interested


dont pay and its like any other mortgage, the lender will foreclose and may come after the other assets

It was 5 figures, not 6. But either way...


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[Richelle]

I would post it on the bargain bin for free to see if you get any takers. Let them know there is still money owed on the loan (and how much it is). Like Ron said, you might get someone to take it from you and pay off the loan. It really depends on how much it left. I would avoid foreclosure at all costs. I know he doesn't plan on buying a new home, but what about a credit card for emergencies? Maybe a car loan? Sometimes employers check credit records. There are many reasons he may want to keep a foreclosure off his credit report. I sympathize with your situation. Walking away seems like an easy thing to do but the impact can last a long time. You don't know what the next 7-10 years will bring. He may need to have at least decent credit for some reason between now and then. You could try calling The loan servicer and ask what your options are.


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[paxsarah]

One member has documented the process of allowing Wyndham to foreclose in this long thread: http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/about-to-start-the-foreclosure-process.231584/

 

[ronparise]

It was 5 figures, not 6. But either way...


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I was thinking 5 zeros.. As you say "either way" it ought to be close to being paid off. but it wont be 700,000 points.

And still, either way how many points? and how much is owed? (and where is it deeded?) are important questions

 

[ronparise]

I would post it on the bargain bin for free to see if you get any takers. Let them know there is still money owed on the loan (and how much it is). Like Ron said, you might get someone to take it from you and pay off the loan. It really depends on how much it left. I would avoid foreclosure at all costs. I know he doesn't plan on buying a new home, but what about a credit card for emergencies? Maybe a car loan? Sometimes employers check credit records. There are many reasons he may want to keep a foreclosure off his credit report. I sympathize with your situation. Walking away seems like an easy thing to do but the impact can last a long time. You don't know what the next 7-10 years will bring. He may need to have at least decent credit for some reason between now and then. You could try calling The loan servicer and ask what your options are.


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If the price is more than zero, the tug mafia wont allow it to be posted on the bargain deals forum.

and foreclosure is not the end of the world, and credit is not gods gift to humanity. Re Read the op's first point, "1. We are not worried about hits to his credit, I am pretty sure it is already terrible, and relieving him of the monthly payments will far outweigh any negative effects at this point. He also doesn't have the means or the intention to ever buy actual real estate again."

. I dont know how old you are but many of us old farts dont use credit any more, either because no one in their right mind will loan us money, (we dont have the income to pay it back) or because without kids to support we are able to keep a few dollars in the bank. bottom line I believe the op, credit is not important

 

[bnoble]

1. We are not worried about hits to his credit, I am pretty sure it is already terrible, and relieving him of the monthly payments will far outweigh any negative effects at this point. He also doesn't have the means or the intention to ever buy actual real estate again.

As Ron suggests, just let it go into foreclosure. You may have to start screening his calls (if you don't already) to keep him from getting suckered into paying something on it eventually and/or falling prey to related "Free your timeshare obligation" scams. It won't necessarily be pleasant, but will probably be the best of your available options.

 

[Kozman]

I screen my calls by not answering any call that I don't know. If it's important enough to call it's important enough to leave a message. If no message I Google the number to try and identify who it was (just out of curiosity) and then block that number.

 

[Richelle]

If the price is more than zero, the tug mafia wont allow it to be posted on the bargain deals forum.

and foreclosure is not the end of the world, and credit is not gods gift to humanity. Re Read the op's first point, "1. We are not worried about hits to his credit, I am pretty sure it is already terrible, and relieving him of the monthly payments will far outweigh any negative effects at this point. He also doesn't have the means or the intention to ever buy actual real estate again."

. I dont know how old you are but many of us old farts dont use credit any more, either because no one in their right mind will loan us money, (we dont have the income to pay it back) or because without kids to support we are able to keep a few dollars in the bank. bottom line I believe the op, credit is not important

I did read that part, but foreclosures last longer then a missed payment or ten. Maybe not every old fart uses credit but some do. I know that they are not worried about his credit now, but no one knows what can happen in the next 10 years, which is how long a foreclosure will stay on his credit report. Obviously the op is already leaning hard towards foreclosure so anything I say will probably have no affect, but if I was not going to bring it up, then someone else would have. As far as the Bargain bin mafia, I understand. I guess the only thing left is to put out an ad on it. Probably a long shot, but it's worth trying if someone will take over the payments or pay it off. The scammers and collection agencies will constantly be calling. Sure, they can ignore the call. Sure you can block the number but they will just change the number that are calling from. Plus you will have the mailings from collection agencies and scanners. An ad is much simpler and would save all that trouble of blocking numbers and ignoring more calls then usual.


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[55plus]

If your father dose have a loan on the timeshare he won't be able to give it away nor sell it until the loan is paid off. If he's been paying on it for awhile it may be close to being paid for and if its CWA or deeded at a high demand location someone might buy it for what is owed.

 

[Ty1on]

I did read that part, but foreclosures last longer then a missed payment or ten. Maybe not every old fart uses credit but some do. I know that they are not worried about his credit now, but no one knows what can happen in the next 10 years, which is how long a foreclosure will stay on his credit report. Obviously the op is already leaning hard towards foreclosure so anything I say will probably have no affect, but if I was not going to bring it up, then someone else would have. As far as the Bargain bin mafia, I understand. I guess the only thing left is to put out an ad on it. Probably a long shot, but it's worth trying if someone will take over the payments or pay it off. The scammers and collection agencies will constantly be calling. Sure, they can ignore the call. Sure you can block the number but they will just change the number that are calling from. Plus you will have the mailings from collection agencies and scanners. An ad is much simpler and would save all that trouble of blocking numbers and ignoring more calls then usual.


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The "bargain bin mafia" has helped a whole lot of people get out from worthless timeshares without paying a PCC thousands to do it for them, or worst yet, getting scammed. You don't see people suggesting someone put something with resale value, like a paid off low MF Wyndham contract or a Marriott points contract, in the bargain forum. In this case, it couldn't be listed in Bargains because there would be a buyout of the remaining mortgage.

Bankruptcy can stay on for 10 years. A foreclosure is on for 7.

 

[Jan M.]

I remember seeing a post from someone whose parents had a developer platinum ownership that he inherited. He thought they were fools for having spent what they did and for owning a timeshare at all, had no idea of the value, in use, of what they had left him and just wanted rid of it. Apparently they hadn't been using it for several years prior to their deaths and he saw it as just a drain of money due to the maintenance fees. Getting rid of it as soon as possible because he couldn't afford the maintenance fees wasn't a necessity. He had never used it while they were living for whatever reason and had no idea what he could do with a million platinum points.

I immediately called our son and told him if he ever did this with our ownership that I would haunt him every second of every day for the rest of his life and beyond. For years our son has been going to the resorts and not having to factor in the cost of accommodations when he vacations has spoiled him. He laughed at my threat, no make that a promise, and assured me I had no worries about him doing something like that.

Not to be nosey but a crucial piece of information in regards to your options is approximately how much does your father still owe? If he has paid a large percentage off and doesn't still owe a huge amount that makes a world of difference in trying to get rid of it. If he still owes a great deal on it no one is going to want it and your best bet may be to just default on it.

How many points does he have and at which resort he is deeded? Larger point deeds and low maintenance fee resorts are much easier to find someone to take.

Many times people buy to be able to go to a specific resort, know almost nothing about how to use their points, their adult children are never invited to use the timeshare, or never avail themselves of the opportunity. There can be many factors: adult children have limited vacation time, they live a great distance from their parents, the parents and children can be out of touch with a lot of things in each others lives for a number of reasons, failure of the parents to familiarize their families with what they will be inheriting, some parents and adult children don't want the other involved in their finances, strained or nonexistent relationships. When you can't make an unbiased or informed decision, for whatever reasons, turning to other people for input like you are doing is a smart move.

I'm going to say what many of us think when we see posts similar to yours. If not a huge amount of money is owed, the deed is for a significant number of points, and the resort has medium to low maintenance fees, then you should rethink this. You might be very shortsighted in getting rid of this unless you already own more timeshare ownerships of your own than you can possibly use. Don't let your personal feelings towards your Dad's situation color your judgement.

Don't you have anyone else in your immediate or extended family that might be interested in taking over the deeds? It has been 8 years since we added our son but the cost to add someone to your deed was only $100.

 

[foundyoubyaccident]

I remember seeing a post from someone whose parents had a developer platinum ownership that he inherited. He thought they were fools for having spent what they did and for owning a timeshare at all, had no idea of the value, in use, of what they had left him and just wanted rid of it. Apparently they hadn't been using it for several years prior to their deaths and he saw it as just a drain of money due to the maintenance fees. Getting rid of it as soon as possible because he couldn't afford the maintenance fees wasn't a necessity. He had never used it while they were living for whatever reason and had no idea what he could do with a million platinum points.

I immediately called our son and told him if he ever did this with our ownership that I would haunt him every second of every day for the rest of his life and beyond. For years our son has been going to the resorts and not having to factor in the cost of accommodations when he vacations has spoiled him. He laughed at my threat, no make that a promise, and assured me I had no worries about him doing something like that.

Not to be nosey but a crucial piece of information in regards to your options is approximately how much does your father still owe? If he has paid a large percentage off and doesn't still owe a huge amount that makes a world of difference in trying to get rid of it. If he still owes a great deal on it no one is going to want it and your best bet may be to just default on it.

How many points does he have and at which resort he is deeded? Larger point deeds and low maintenance fee resorts are much easier to find someone to take.

Many times people buy to be able to go to a specific resort, know almost nothing about how to use their points, their adult children are never invited to use the timeshare, or never avail themselves of the opportunity. There can be many factors: adult children have limited vacation time, they live a great distance from their parents, the parents and children can be out of touch with a lot of things in each others lives for a number of reasons, failure of the parents to familiarize their families with what they will be inheriting, some parents and adult children don't want the other involved in their finances, strained or nonexistent relationships. When you can't make an unbiased or informed decision, for whatever reasons, turning to other people for input like you are doing is a smart move.

I'm going to say what many of us think when we see posts similar to yours. If not a huge amount of money is owed, the deed is for a significant number of points, and the resort has medium to low maintenance fees, then you should rethink this. You might be very shortsighted in getting rid of this unless you already own more timeshare ownerships of your own than you can possibly use. Don't let your personal feelings towards your Dad's situation color your judgement.

Don't you have anyone else in your immediate or extended family that might be interested in taking over the deeds? It has been 8 years since we added our son but the cost to add someone to your deed was only $100.

If you ever want to adopt a daughter.. ah ah hem.. I know someone. bahaha

You are absolutely correct.

The TheHammer: I would look into it, do some first hand research, before getting rid of it. I would take a weekend vacation with my father, bring the whole family, let them tell you about all the wonderful pointers, thinking they will make a sale. You don't have to buy any, but you can ask lots of questions and it might fit your life style. You might find it more useful then you do currently.

 

[Ty1on]

If you ever want to adopt a daughter.. ah ah hem.. I know someone. bahaha

You are absolutely correct.

The TheHammer: I would look into it, do some first hand research, before getting rid of it. I would take a weekend vacation with my father, bring the whole family, let them tell you about all the wonderful pointers, thinking they will make a sale. You don't have to buy any, but you can ask lots of questions and it might fit your life style. You might find it more useful then you do currently.

Or learn as much as possible here, because the salespeople will fill them with lies.

 

[Richelle]

The "bargain bin mafia" has helped a whole lot of people get out from worthless timeshares without paying a PCC thousands to do it for them, or worst yet, getting scammed. You don't see people suggesting someone put something with resale value, like a paid off low MF Wyndham contract or a Marriott points contract, in the bargain forum. In this case, it couldn't be listed in Bargains because there would be a buyout of the remaining mortgage.

Bankruptcy can stay on for 10 years. A foreclosure is on for 7.

I only used that term when replying to Ron because he used it. I am not knocking what they do at all. Ok, 7 years. My point remains the same. Try to avoid it if possible. I understand that It not always possible to avoid it. I'm just saying don't take foreclosure lightly. Like I said earlier, the op was already leaning heavily towards foreclosure so it's not likely anything I say will make a difference.


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[Richelle]

All,

First time poster here. I am looking for advice for my father who currently owns points through Club Wyndham. He has a Club Wyndham points contract and two PIC (whatever that is) contracts with more points through Wyndham. He and my now deceased mother spent the requisite 5-figure sum in the mid-2000s to buy into Club Wyndham and he is now looking into getting out from under this debt and fee burden. He still owes money on the mortgage/loan, so the timeshare isn't even paid off yet. I have already prevented him from paying a scam company to "sell" the timeshare for him.

What I am asking is this - what will happen to him if he simply walks away from the loan and the timeshare, i.e. stops paying both the loan payments and the HOA and maintenance fees? Will Wyndham eventually foreclose and relieve him of the burden? Is there any way for Wyndham to go after his other assets? He still owns my childhood home (which magically has a HELOC out on it) and inherited my grandparents' home (unencumbered, luckily).

Background caveats:
1. We are not worried about hits to his credit, I am pretty sure it is already terrible, and relieving him of the monthly payments will far outweigh any negative effects at this point. He also doesn't have the means or the intention to ever buy actual real estate again.

2. Since he still owes money on the loan, from what I have already read on this site, the timeshare is worthless and we could expect little to nothing back from selling it anyway, even if someone would agree to take on the payments.

3. It is not worth my time to sell the timeshare on eBay or anywhere else and help him do the transfer paperwork. My career and my family time are worth more to me than the few bucks we'd make back on it.

4. I have no intention of keeping any of his timeshares when the inevitable day comes that I inherit them, so him keeping this thing until it's paid off is not an option.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

I hope I don't come off as callous. It sounds like you are in a tough spot. I was just offering some ideas. None may help you, but I figured I would try to help. I wish you the best of luck and hope you both can get some relief soon.


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[Ty1on]

I only used that term when replying to Ron because he used it. I am not knocking what they do at all. Ok, 7 years. My point remains the same. Try to avoid it if possible. I understand that It not always possible to avoid it. I'm just saying don't take foreclosure lightly. Like I said earlier, the op was already leaning heavily towards foreclosure so it's not likely anything I say will make a difference.


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Oh, I see, he said Tug Mafia, which was referring to mods enforcing the "must be free" requirement to post in Bargain Deals. I didn't make the connection between that and your "Bargain Bin Mafia"

 

[Richelle]

Oh, I see, he said Tug Mafia, which was referring to mods enforcing the "must be free" requirement to post in Bargain Deals. I didn't make the connection between that and your "Bargain Bin Mafia"

No problem. I should have used tug mafia but for some reason I saw bargain bin mafia when I read his post. It's been a long week.


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[DeniseM]

Yeah - Ron and rules don't much care for each other. He could make a lot more money on TUG if there weren't any.

Denise, AKA, TUG Mafia

 

[ronparise]

Yeah - Ron and rules don't much care for each other. He could make a lot more money on TUG if there weren't any.

Denise, AKA, TUG Mafia

Denise, you know that isnt true, I always play by the rules, when they are clearly stated.

Im not saying its a bad rule, and I respect your right to make any rule you want.. All Im saying is that the rule is enforced, just like my dads uncle Joe enforced the rules in his business. ie no questions, no discussions, do it my way or else

I do however think the forum should be renamed to reflect those rules, "Bargain" doesnt always mean "free" and "free" isnt always a "bargain"

 

[DeniseM]

Denise, you know that isnt true, I always play by the rules, when they are clearly stated.

I hope you had a big grin on your face when you typed this!

BTW - There are tons of discussions on TUG about the rules, and respectful discussions are always OK - that doesn't mean that you are going to get your way.

 

[TheHammer]

Thank you for the feedback everyone. Updates to questions asked are below:

He has 400,000 points for Club Wyndham Access in one contract with Wyndham and an additional 259,000 PIC points under 2 more contracts.

I am trying to find out how much he owes (we do not live in the same geographic area so I have to have him run down this info.)

His yearly maintenance fees and other fees are roughly $2700 total.

The contract is based out of either Myrtle Beach, SC or Daytona Beach, FL, I need to get a clear answer from him as to which it currently is (my parents consistently fell for the "trade-in" scam).

I am determined not to inherit the debt burdens of his timeshares. I am active duty military and get little time off to spend with my family. We could take very nice vacations with what we'd spend maintaining even paid off timeshares in the lengthy intervals between our opportunities for "major" vacations. Besides, the military branches own some very nice hotels and resorts in choice locations around the world so I have no need to pay a timeshare company for a benefit I already get.

My sister is in no financial position to take over the deeds and payments so having immediate or even extended family take them is not an option. Besides, too many bad memories of a childhood spent watching our parents throw away their hard earned money for that to happen anyway. We are both in agreement that neither of us wants anything to do with the timeshares when we inherit them. We would both like them to go away before that eventuality happens anyway so that we don't even have to deal with getting rid of them, or worse yet being liable for fees or taking hits to our credit if we walk away from the timeshares.

 

[Jan M.]

Thank you for the feedback everyone. Updates to questions asked are below:

He has 400,000 points for Club Wyndham Access in one contract with Wyndham and an additional 259,000 PIC points under 2 more contracts.

I am trying to find out how much he owes (we do not live in the same geographic area so I have to have him run down this info.)

His yearly maintenance fees and other fees are roughly $2700 total.

The contract is based out of either Myrtle Beach, SC or Daytona Beach, FL, I need to get a clear answer from him as to which it currently is (my parents consistently fell for the "trade-in" scam).

I am determined not to inherit the debt burdens of his timeshares. I am active duty military and get little time off to spend with my family. We could take very nice vacations with what we'd spend maintaining even paid off timeshares in the lengthy intervals between our opportunities for "major" vacations. Besides, the military branches own some very nice hotels and resorts in choice locations around the world so I have no need to pay a timeshare company for a benefit I already get.

My sister is in no financial position to take over the deeds and payments so having immediate or even extended family take them is not an option. Besides, too many bad memories of a childhood spent watching our parents throw away their hard earned money for that to happen anyway. We are both in agreement that neither of us wants anything to do with the timeshares when we inherit them. We would both like them to go away before that eventuality happens anyway so that we don't even have to deal with getting rid of them, or worse yet being liable for fees or taking hits to our credit if we walk away from the timeshares.

Ask him if he is VIP gold or silver. With 400,000 Wyndham developer points and two PICs worth another 259,000 points, if has owned long enough he could have been grandfathered in to gold when Wyndham raised the point levels to reach gold. That gives the ownership a great deal more value if any family member can be added to the deed. Do you have any aunts, uncles, cousins that might be interested in it? He wouldn't be selling it to them just adding family to the deed giving them rights of survivorship.

It is my understanding that as long as your names aren't on the deeds you and your sister can refuse to accept them when he passes.

I'm guessing that his loan is for the 400,000 Wyndham points. Are the PIC contracts paid for and where are they at? Does $2700 include the maintenance fees on his PIC contracts. They are paid to the individual resorts and wouldn't be included in his Wyndham fees except for the annual fee $89 each to keep them in the PIC program. Taking them out of the PIC program might take him out of the VIP program but would reduce his Wyndham maintenance fees. You need to know what the individual maintenance fees are on each of the three because they can get sold or given away separately and need not be tied to the Wyndham deal. If either of the PIC resorts are in RCI it might be worth it for you or your sister to keep the cheapest one. You can get some really cheap nice vacations through RCI.

I can understand why you aren't interested. Military has some fantastic places they can stay for very little.

Also make sure you find out what options, if any, are open to him through Ovations for the Wyndham deed.

 

[55plus]

We are both in agreement that neither of us wants anything to do with the timeshares when we inherit them. We would both like them to go away before that eventuality happens anyway so that we don't even have to deal with getting rid of them, or worse yet being liable for fees or taking hits to our credit if we walk away from the timeshares.

You don't have to inherit the timeshares. You can refuse them at that time so they won't pass down to you or anyone during probate. I'm retired Air Force and inherited mine towards the end of my career. We even added to it on the secondary market. We turned them into a quasi business and use them during the winter months in Myrtle Beach and Daytona Beach. Once you get through the learning curve and understand how to use them they can become a blessing. I'm just saying. . .