Looking for Advice on Strategy Moving Forward

[Juxtapose]

I purchased a timeshare with Hilton over a year ago, and found this site a couple months later... a bit too late to cancel the contract. So what I actually own is this:

2200 yearly points Gold week at Elara (Las Vegas)
Cost was $15,500 (paid off in full)
Yearly Maintenance: $685 (or something in the ballpark)

Yuck... so I discovered in the aftermath that I actually really enjoy HGV locations, but that you can get so much more just booking directly with them. To put this in perspective... here are two recent trips I did, one with points and one without.

In December I stayed at Seapointe Carlsbad, CA for 3 nights (Thur-Sun) in a 1 bedroom ocean view. I used 2,350 points. All of my points for the year and borrowed 150 from next year. I looked online prior to going on this trip and the room would have been in the neighborhood of $185-230 a night if I had booked on my own, with cash. That's practically a wash when compared to my yearly maintenance fees... so it seems the $15,500 was wasted. Well, nothing I can do about that now... so moving forward and trying to make the most of things.

Just last weekend I stayed at the Parc Soleil in Orlando, FL for two nights visiting Disney with my daughters for the holiday weekend. I didn't bother reserving through HGV points system, because I only wanted two nights and they make that difficult, but I did want to stay at a HGV resort (I'm still checking them all out). So I booked a studio suite two nights Sat/Sun night on MLK weekend. and it cost me $205 a night. I looked online and thoe two nights would have used all my points for the year (wow, 2200 doesn't go that far when you use them on weekends)... anyway, what's really interesting is that the resort upgrades me to a two bedroom penthouse suite (I'm a Diamond with Hilton) looking forward Magic Kingdom (view of fireworks from balcony). So for just $410 I ended up staying in a room that would have cost probably 2500 a night in points? Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it's got to be expensive as far as points go.

For the heck of it I went down to the sales department to talk with someone... got a really annoying saleman who kept trying to relate to me. Asking about my life and my being a single father. It was all rather unbecoming... I just wanted numbers. I told him I feel I made a mistake in buying only 2200 points, and that I'm ultimately more interested in the points to maintenance fee ratio. That I'm pretty much screwed in that department right now. I learned that a 5000 point a year timeshare with Elara exists that would only cost $180 more a year in maintenance fees... however also costs another $16000 ... haha no thanks!

I feel like 5000 point costing me $800 a year in maintance fees would be more beneficial in my mind as it relates to what I'm spending each year and what I'm getting. But then I think... wow that's $31,500 in equity to get that?! Why wouldn't I just use that $31,500 over the next 30 years... invest it in an S&P500 fund and I could probably stretch it to cover plane tickets and stuff as well.

Anyway... if you're still reading I appreciate it. Now the question. I hate this timeshare... and I don't want to double down on a mistake just to make it slightly better. What is the approprite action moving forward? Do I need to just sell my 2200 points and buy 5000 on resale. Or should I just continue paying cash to stay at HGV and get the perks of them always thinking I'm someone they can sell on a timeshare. I think that may have been part of the reason they upgraded me to a penthouse suite last weekend...

It was funny how quickly they wanted to get me out of their sales department as soon as I mentioned how cheap resale timeshares are.

What is the advice for someone like me moving forward? Would I get anything out of selling my 2200 point ($15,500) timeshare? It just seems like a waste of time... and something that I keep thinking the $15K will translate to some kind of benefit. It's not. I'm using up my bonus points from that initial purchase this summer and then I think I may look at getting out of it. The yearly fees (dues and maintenance are $850 or so... and I just don't feel I get that value out of it). Any advice? As I understand it... this timeshare I currently own is worth lesson the resale market... is there any kind of strategy to get Hilton to buy it back... without the requirement to buy something else?

 

[Ty1on]

Nearly every single timeshare that exists is worth less on the resale market than it was sold for. Your $15K (Less what you could get reselling it) is a sunk cost, call it tuition, and it looks like you realize that. I'll be following this thread because I'm interested in understanding how well retail and resale contracts combine in the HGVC system, and it looks like that might be a solution for you if it's possible. You would essentially buy the least MF per point contract possible and "dollar cost average" your points so that the expense works better for you.

The only way Hilton would buy back your contract, from what I've seen, is of you find a buyer and HGVC scoops it out from under them using ROFR.

 

[Juxtapose]

Combining a resale with an already purchased timeshare... I didn't even think that was possible, but it would be awesome! I just assumed that if I bought resale I'd have a new yearly maintenance fee no matter what (so two of them, yuck), so the obvious thing to look at was how best to sell what I currently have. However, if there is a way to get something new and combine it into what I currently own that would be a much better option. I think?

So that's a good question for the experts. Is there any way for me to buy resale to get my currently points value up to 5000 a year without selling my current 2200 point timeshare and without having two yearly maintenance fees?

Appreciate any else's advice on this, and what's the most cost effective way forward.

Also another question:
How do people selling timeshares on the resale market avoid the ROFR clause? Does Hilton consider all resales and only pick ones that it thinks are abnormally low to scoop up? If Hilton always invokes ROFR then essentially no resale market would exist. Right? I guess that means there is a cut-off or threshold for each sale that resales need to stay above in order to Hilton to not come in and decide to invoke ROFR.

 

[rahulgopi]

Since you like the HGVC system, your best bet is to buy the amount of points you need resale.
7000 point 2 Br Vegas platinum have ~ $920 in MF and will cost you approx $7000+ .
The $685 amount may include $150 club dues and you will only pay that once yearly, regardless of the number of contracts you have.
You will have 9200 points for approx $1600 in MF. This is no way ideal but definitely better than what you have and pouring more money into developer purchase.

If you can get rid of the 2200 point contract, it will be ideal. You may have to give it away for free as it is hard to market and sell those low point contracts.

 

[Nomad420]

From what I am seeing perhaps the best he could now do is maybe $2K on his 2200 point purchase. When I bought (retail) I was told that NO they do not ALWAYS invoke ROFR but yes must submit the offered purchase price to HGVC. I did have much the same questions as you after my purchase but I bought specifically for NYC. Probably to get my head above water on that property I will need to use 10 to 15 years and that is possible. Just a lot of initial capital roll out. They did through a bunch of "bogus" points at me though... LOL IF I enjoy the property I will probably look into trying to buy some cheap points with low MF's somewhere down the road to increase my point level/bank but at this point I am at a wait and see position. You may want to consider the same particularly since you seem to like HGVC resorts. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Juxtapose]

I tend to not dwell on mistakes, and instead prefer to look ahead... however I was rather upset when I discovered just how bad the timeshare value was. During the presentation I asked "what if I don't like this and want to sell it in a couple years... are you telling me I'll get the $15,500 back?" ... the guy said "oh yes, of course... probably more. You're buying at a great time, it's only going to go up in value."

I'm a web developer and know the ins and outs of google rankings and how to develop aesthetically pleasing websites. I'm also very analytical. I've contemplated calling up Hilton and requesting they refund the $15,500... or else... I'll go out of my way to do my part to make sure they lose out on many many more people getting sucked into this system. By laying out exactly what the dangers an pitfalls are and highlighting specifically what happened in my case (which seems like it's every ones first experience as well).

I wonder if they would take something like that seriously. I doubt it. I may build the website just for fun anyways. I wonder if they would do anything legally against that? Can they? I'd have to consider how I'd post the information... educational and mostly just a review of my own experience highlighting the deception I saw through the process. I bet I can find a way to get it to be in the top 5 links anyone sees when searching Google for Hilton Grand Vacation

 

[Ty1on]

Since you like the HGVC system, your best bet is to buy the amount of points you need resale.
7000 point 2 Br Vegas platinum have ~ $920 in MF and will cost you approx $7000+ .
The $685 amount may include $150 club dues and you will only pay that once yearly, regardless of the number of contracts you have.
You will have 9200 points for approx $1600 in MF. This is no way ideal but definitely better than what you have and pouring more money into developer purchase.

If you can get rid of the 2200 point contract, it will be ideal. You may have to give it away for free as it is hard to market and sell those low point contracts.

Are there any worthwhile benefits of being a retail owner that he would lose if he sells off the 2,200? I mean, any benefits that don't amount to a terrible use of points?

 

[Ty1on]

I tend to not dwell on mistakes, and instead prefer to look ahead... however I was rather upset when I discovered just how bad the timeshare value was. During the presentation I asked "what if I don't like this and want to sell it in a couple years... are you telling me I'll get the $15,500 back?" ... the guy said "oh yes, of course... probably more. You're buying at a great time, it's only going to go up in value."

I'm a web developer and know the ins and outs of google rankings and how to develop aesthetically pleasing websites. I'm also very analytical. I've contemplated calling up Hilton and requesting they refund the $15,500... or else... I'll go out of my way to do my part to make sure they lose out on many many more people getting sucked into this system. By laying out exactly what the dangers an pitfalls are and highlighting specifically what happened in my case (which seems like it's every ones first experience as well).

I wonder if they would take something like that seriously. I doubt it. I may build the website just for fun anyways. I wonder if they would do anything legally against that? Can they? I'd have to consider how I'd post the information... educational and mostly just a review of my own experience highlighting the deception I saw through the process. I bet I can find a way to get it to be in the top 5 links anyone sees when searching Google for Hilton Grand Vacation

I don't want you to get the notion that you are the first person in history that has threatened or even tried to publicize the practices of timeshare salesmen. The blunt fact is that if buyers spent as much research on a timeshare before buying it as they do on a new vacuum, they would be well aware of the truth. Timeshare developers depend upon convincing you and other buyers to make an instant decision before you have had time to vet out what they are telling you.

Bottom line: Even if you made your well designed warning page the top item on SEO, the victims wouldn't find your site anymore than they would find TUG before buying, because it simply doesn't occur to them that they might get looped into a hard sell timeshare presentation and they should study up on it.

ETA: This is why you will see TUGgers here so urgently advising buyers who are still in the rescission period to rescind--the TUGgers know that rescission is a once-in-a-lifetime chance and they only have a few days, sometimes hours by the time they find TUG, to rescind it, and the same deal will be there later if the buyer researches and decides it was the right deal for her.

 

[Juxtapose]

Now there is an idea! I need to come up with a strategy on how to best attract those who just purchased a timeshare... the group who is in the mindset of "hey, just got back from vacation, now to see what exactly this cool thing is I just bought"... so they instantly get a WARNING!!! read this now and save yourself from a lot of trouble! as one of the first links they see when trying to figure out how to log in and see what it is their timeshare is worth.

Maybe at the top and bottom of the page I'll say "If anyone from Hilton is reading this, offer me 67 cents on the dollar for what I paid for my timeshare and I'll remove this website... for everyone else still reading, the fact that this site exists says Hilton refuses keep my free $5,000 gift to them (the other 33 cents on the dollar) and buy back my timeshare they value so greatly is proof of how bad a deal retail timeshares are" haha

I'm certainly in Vigilante Justice mode right now... I don't mind spending a lot time and even money trying to expose this, if it helps others

 

[Nomad420]

In New York state the rescind period was 10 days so not too bad. I actually considered dumping may purchase but for a multiple reasons kept the it even after doing some rather long research here and elsewhere. Everyone's situation isn't the same but you still may get something out of this. Perhaps you will get lucky and pick up a good deal in the retail market to enhance your points as others have stated. Also if you like your home resort as I did it obviously doesn't matter where you pick up those other properties/points with HGVC. I have a couple of other non HGVC TS that I had purchased in the resale market in the past and have done well with them, one I actually may even sell for more than I purchased it for following over 10 years of use so all TS are not equal. Good Luck....

 

[Talent312]

Are there any worthwhile benefits of being a retail owner that he would lose if he sells off the 2,200?

No... None... Not any... He would be treated eggsactly the same.
He would lose having those points count toward elite-status which starts at 14,000 points.
Even elite owners here will tell you that elite benefits are not worth the additional retail price.

Retail+resale points can be combined in one account (affiliates used to be kept separate)
... as long as the name(s) on the deeds are identical.
MF's will still be billed per unit, but only one will include "club dues."

The OP should buy resale then quickly dump the 2,200 pt unit -- avoids a new acct fee.
He could call HGVC about taking it back. They might offer small pittance (maybe $1K).
IMO, it'll be hard to give it away. I see no chance HGVC will use ROFR on this package.
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[hurnik]

No... None... Not any... He would be treated eggsactly the same.
He would lose having those points count toward elite-status which starts at 14,000 points.
Even elite owners here will tell you that elite benefits are not worth the additional retail price.

Retail+resale points can be combined in one account (affiliates used to be kept separate)
... as long as the name(s) on the deeds are identical.
MF's will still be billed per unit, but only one will include "club dues."

The OP should buy resale then quickly dump the 2,200 pt unit -- avoids a new acct fee.
He could call HGVC about taking it back. They might offer small pittance (maybe $1K).
IMO, it'll be hard to give it away. I see no chance HGVC will use ROFR on this package.
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I agree. I did something similar WAY back when. Had bought from developer before I knew better (or had TUG). Was advised that Hilton would buy back my 4800 (?) for like $5k (I think I owed $3500 on it). I bought a resale through Diane Nadeau and she worked with Hilton to do the buy-back and they applied the credit to my resale purchase.

This was years ago, mind you. I would imagine a 2200 point would maybe get $500-750 if sold directly (I have a 3400 I'd be lucky to get $1500 for, probably closer to $1000). But Hilton may be willing to buy back as well.

 

[fernow]

Times change. With iPhones in every hand, the old truth that people did more research on a vacuum as was noted above then they do on a timeshare is changing. People like you SHOULD take whatever legal and moral action necessary to stop others from suffering the loss you suffered. Well conceived website may be just the thing. TUG certainly does what it can to get the message out.

I have been contemplating starting a conversation about the long term survivability of timeshares in general and HGVC in particular in the information age and era of VRBO and AirBnB. Retail TS makes NO sense. None. The issue is getting out the message. But that message, if heard and heeded will kill timeshare, EVEN resale and current ownership. Yearly maintenance fees already nearly equal or as the OP points out exceed what the unit or comparable can be rented for from online sources. HGVC's open season rates used to be a good deal. No more. The industry, even the good ones, relies on scamming the uninformed. That industry will fail. Where will that leave us owners?

 

[Ty1on]

I'll guarantee you the TS boardrooms are having these discussions.

 

[weems637]

I initially bought retail, then started surfing the internet for a cheaper way to add points. I have since doubled our point holdings. It is always fun to bring up the topic of resale pool side. The looks I get, "what.......?"