[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[BocaBoy]

I agree that private rental transactions are popular with most TUGgers and that I am in the minority here (but even in this thread, there were several TUGgers who expressed the same reluctance that I have), but I'm not sure that I agree that the "vast majority of people" do it that way. I have no hard data to support my belief, but I would almost be willing to bet that the total number of transactions done on sites like VRBO, HomeAway, Redweek, AirBNB, and other direct owner-to-renter sites pales in comparison to the number of more traditional bookings made on sites like marriott.com, hilton.com, orbitz.com, expedia.com, etc. In general, I think people are just more comfortable dealing with a company or a professional corporate booking site. No prepayment required; liberal cancellation privileges, etc.

I am sure you are right. In the larger scheme of things, private timeshare rentals, especially from someone you do not know, are a drop in the bucket compared to the number renting on marriott.com, etc. I also agree that points rentals are a lot different than renting a reservation because the transaction is finalized almost immediately and the points are then mine. I only once rented a week privately, on Redweek.com, and it worked out fine, but I always had in the back of my mind that I could be getting scammed. Although I knew it was unlikely that things would go south, I even had a back-up plan in case we arrived and the reservation had disappeared. This was a week at a more modest Hawaii timeshare not available on the big hotel sites. Although the price was extremely attractive, I would have paid more to reserve on such a site had that been possible.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Some posters quote rack rate hotel prices and compare to a TS. In the era of Priceline , Hotwire, Hotel tonight, a myriad of discount and points programs who in the world pays rack rates?

99.9% of the worlds population. In other words, almost everybody. The discount sites you mention are similar to the leftover inventory on the exchange sites. You are not going to find something in high demand with limited supply offered to the world at a discount price.

 

[Quilter]

Golden, if you do go through with the hybrid package that has the Ocean Pointe week you should consider joining the OPnewsgroup. https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/OPnewsgroup/info

There are 600+ owners in the group.

For all-around MVC and timeshare discussions TUG is the place to be. For direct contact with a lot of owners at your home resort the OPnewsgroup is very helpful.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

Some of the comparisons made to other products do not ring true to me. Apples and oranges comparisons to jewelry stores and used cars are not relevant to me because the end product will not the same.

Whether you rent from an owner or pay the big bucks to "own" a Marriott TS the end product at the chosen resort is exactly the same. The units are the same, the weather will be the same, resort activities are open to everyone. No one cares on site whether you rented or "own".
We have never rented points, we always rent weeks from owners and the process is so easy. There are so many weekly timeshare rentals available, lots of Marriotts. Some people we know rent the same unit from the same owner over and over, a golf week in HHI late March early April.

I agree this thread is most informative and it hit a nerve for many on both sides of the fence.

 

[JIMinNC]

Some of the comparisons made to other products do not ring true to me. Apples and oranges comparisons to jewelry stores and used cars are not relevant to me because the end product will not the same.

Whether you rent from an owner or pay the big bucks to "own" a Marriott TS the end product at the chosen resort is exactly the same. The units are the same, the weather will be the same, resort activities are open to everyone. No one cares on site whether you rented or "own".
We have never rented points, we always rent weeks from owners and the process is so easy. There are so many weekly timeshare rentals available, lots of Marriotts. Some people we know rent the same unit from the same owner over and over, a golf week in HHI late March early April.

I agree this thread is most informative and it hit a nerve for many on both sides of the fence.

I think you're missing the point some of us are trying to make. There's no argument with the fact that the END PRODUCT of a private party rental, a marriott.com rental, or a timeshare owner stay are all the same. But the end product is not the issue at all. The issue is the PROCESS for getting to the end product. Private party rentals offer the same PRODUCT but they differ greatly in PROCESS. Let me be specific:

1. For a booking via MVC points or a rental on Marriott.com, I have access to any MVC property from that one source with one search process. There is no single private party owner that can get me to all 60+ MVC locations. Even if I find a great owner that can rent me a Hilton Head week every year, I may have to find a new private party owner whenever I want to go somewhere else. The only exception to this would be finding a Points Owner who could book whatever I want with his/her points and then rent me a reservation.
2. Most private party listings are for full weeks. What if I want to stay for five days? Four days? What if I want to go to Florida and stay four nights at Ocean Pointe and three nights at the new MVC Pulse in South Beach? The only way to do that through a private party is the aforementioned method of having a Points owner make the reservation for me.
3. As an owner, I can go online and search various dates, length of stay, and locations. I can customize the trip to exactly what I want - length of stay, view category, etc. I have more control over that process. Many times, I'll be browsing online and see something neat available and might consider booking it right there on the spot. When I go online, I don't always know what I'm looking for. Maybe I'll see something and that triggers an idea for a trip. I can shop for myself. But, if I decided to use another Points owner to do my bookings for me, I can't shop myself. I have to run everything through him/her. That could get very cumbersome for me...and that owner.
4. When I book online, I see what I want, click "book", and a few seconds or a minute later, I get a confirmation number. I'm set. With an owner rental, I have to email the owner, find out if it's still available, confirm/negotiate the price, remit payment, have them send me the confirmation, call Marriott to confirm the confirmation, etc. Booking it myself online is so much quicker, easier, and secure.
5. If I book direct through Marriott and there is a problem at check-in, Marriott is a big company with a number of avenues to make the situation right. That's why I used the example of the dealer used car purchase vs a private party sale - the big timeshare company (like the big car dealer) may have ways to offer restitution or compensation. If I book my trip from Maw & Paw Kettle, and they accidentally cancel the reservation or otherwise cause me a problem at check-in, there is very little Marriott can do for me. My "contract" was with Maw & Paw, not Marriott.
6. I have more peace of mind, knowing my reservation was booked by me with Marriott, and we are the only two parties involved in that transaction. There is no middleman.

Bottom line, some of us are willing to pay more for the simple online convenience and peace of mind we get from booking our own reservation instead of dealing with issues like those above that concern us in a private party transaction (sorta like buying a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk at the neighborhood convenience store instead of driving to the larger and cheaper grocery store - same product, but different buying process and a different price). Sure, it's more expensive to do it that way, but to some of us, the benefits are worth it.

Some people (like you, I assume), aren't really bothered by issues like the six I noted above, so they are mainly concerned with getting the timeshare/condo for the lowest price they can. As a result, these folks will usually be able to travel cheaper than us. That's great. They get what they want at a price they are comfortable with. We pay more, but we have the satisfaction and peace of mind that we don't have to deal with issues like the six I listed.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

In addition to improving our deal to the point that we got a market-competitive ownership stake in MVCI (huge debt of gratitude to all!), it's been fun and educational to learn the different types of TS users, and some of the pros and cons associated with each. It looks to me like there are a few broad buckets:

1. Rent, Rent, Rent (great for bargain hunters, folks with a lot of time, a lot of tolerance for P2P transactions, and willingness to bear some risk - probably the lowest cost, lowest commitment way to go)
2. Weeks (great if you want to go to the same place most years and/or if you share some of the "Renter" attributes and want to do some trading, and of course will tolerate the process of waiting weeks or months for exchanges to go through)
3. Points (premium experience - that means it's expensive but gets you ultimate autonomy and flexibility including access to any unit anywhere before the rest of the world gets access to it, the ability to stay whatever duration you want (2 nights, 7 nights, 23 nights, whatever), and the simplest process of making, changing, or canceling plans; with little to none of the stress, constraints, time commitments, or risk involved in renting or exchanging.

I actually like the other industry comparisons. Whether it's MVCI, Delta/American, Tiffany, luxury vehicles, or owning a nice home vs. renting, there are arguments to be made for things or their more economical alternatives.

 

[bazzap]

In addition to improving our deal to the point that we got a market-competitive ownership stake in MVCI (huge debt of gratitude to all!), it's been fun and educational to learn the different types of TS users, and some of the pros and cons associated with each. It looks to me like there are a few broad buckets:

1. Rent, Rent, Rent (great for bargain hunters, folks with a lot of time, a lot of tolerance for P2P transactions, and willingness to bear some risk - probably the lowest cost, lowest commitment way to go)
2. Weeks (great if you want to go to the same place most years and/or if you share some of the "Renter" attributes and want to do some trading, and of course will tolerate the process of waiting weeks or months for exchanges to go through)
3. Points (premium experience - that means it's expensive but gets you ultimate autonomy and flexibility including access to any unit anywhere before the rest of the world gets access to it, the ability to stay whatever duration you want (2 nights, 7 nights, 23 nights, whatever), and the simplest process of making, changing, or canceling plans; with little to none of the stress, constraints, time commitments, or risk involved in renting or exchanging.

I actually like the other industry comparisons. Whether it's MVCI, Delta/American, Tiffany, luxury vehicles, or owning a nice home vs. renting, there are arguments to be made for things or their more economical alternatives.

I would agree that renting, weeks and points all have their own pros and cons and will suit different people in different ways.

For me, I value a combination of them, so
I own weeks (which I use or exchange through Interval)
I have enrolled my weeks in the DC Points programme (electing these sometimes, where points work best for extending my weeks or for low points requirement or difficult to get into resorts)
I rent (be that through Interval Getaways or other methods)

I don't believe Points alone offer ultimate autonomy and flexibility though, as with weeks
I am guaranteed getting into my resorts in my seasons
I can lock off several of my resort weeks for extended stays
I can reserve multiple weeks at 13 months out from the earliest week I request, so effectively reserving more than 13 months out.
***
Also, at many resorts, home weeks owners receive priority on villa allocations.
***
I place a fair value on all these benefits.

 

[BocaBoy]

Some of the comparisons made to other products do not ring true to me. Apples and oranges comparisons to jewelry stores and used cars are not relevant to me because the end product will not the same.

Saying the end product is different does not make it so. All these comparisons assumed the purchase of an identical product from alternative sources. For a given car make and model, where should you buy it? For a given type of ring or bracelet, where should you buy it? For a given timeshare product, where should you buy it?

 

[BocaBoy]

Whether you rent from an owner or pay the big bucks to "own" a Marriott TS the end product at the chosen resort is exactly the same. The units are the same, the weather will be the same, resort activities are open to everyone. No one cares on site whether you rented or "own".

We care---we have a somewhat different feeling when we go to "our" own property. Actually, however, there can be other differences too. An owner at a property is likely to get a much better unit placement than a non-owner. An owner may get free parking at certain resorts (e.g., BeachPlace) where others have to pay for parking, and at Ko Olina (maybe others too) they typically waive parking fees for owners staying on MR points or cash. Sometimes there is an event or room open only to owners. Not all big things but the product is not 100% identical in all cases. Often this would not even be apparent to a renter.

 

[Jason245]

My wife and I (33, 36 yo) with 2 kids (1, 2 yo) just joined MVCI (4,000 points level) mostly to realize financial benefits over time (including in retirement in the distant future), but also for some of the intangible benefits the club offers like access to bigger villas, broader experiences, etc.

Part of our decision to buy was based on financial analysis. I'd like to lay this out to you experienced TS users and see if we're missing anything, or if any of the assumptions I'm making may not be accurate. We're within our 10-day review period so we could still back out...

Booking Value of a Point
First, practically all calculations hinge on how much annual "value" we're going to get out of the points on an annual basis in terms of booking vacations. I understand that this can vary greatly, but based on 50 internet comparisons of how much it'd cost to book various MVC villas through the internet, vs. how much they cost to book with DC points, it looks like assuming about $1.50 per point per year is a reasonable target. (For example, using 4,000 points should be the rough equivalent of spending $6,000 on the open market, and 6000/4000=$1.50) The average was actually $1.21 across the 50 searches but valued-minded owners can skew that upward. Still, I ran numbers at $1.50 and $1.20 just to get a range.

Owner Up-Front Acquisition Costs
Second, the way ownership is acquired is a big factor too. In doing a little research on the internet we decided to buy through Marriott rather than go resale because (a) it seems a hell of a lot easier and our time is valuable, and (b) the ultimate cost per point that you pay (after Marriott's incentives w/ direct and after junk fees with resale) is about the same. To buy resale looks like you'll be a little over $7 per point after you pass ROFR w/ a $5+ bid, and after you pay the transfer, education, closing, and other junk fees. Our all-in cost per point was $7.56 after incentives. Those included (a) 20% discount off of the $13.32 starting price (b) $999 reimbursement of our presentation trip (c) $1750 bonus due to adding an extra day onto our presentation trip (subtract $400) - you have to ask special for this (d) 4,000 bonus points for signing up at presentation - valued at $6,000 (e) 4,000 more bonus points for financing 70% of the purchase, which are net valued at $3,566 considering interest fees and tax deduction in the 18 months required to carry the loan for the bonus (f) $1,660 value of putting all up-front costs on Marriott Rewards card for 5x points, and (g) $1,180 closing costs. In summary depending on exactly how much you get resale points for, (using $4.50 to $5.00 range before junk fees) and assuming an annual booking value of $1.20 to $1.50 per point, the potential savings for going resale is around 2-15% (see below). Not worth the headache to us. Note that the math would be different at different levels of ownership.

Point: @$4.50 @$5.00
$1.20: -15.18% -9.02%
$1.30: -13.15% -6.85%
$1.40: -11.02% -4.56%
$1.50: -8.78% -2.16%

Calculating the Value of MVC Ownership
There are several ways to calculate return on a potential investment and I looked at just about all of them...

Perpetual Bond: 7.7% to 12.2% return on investment
Taking the future marginal value of the booking value of a point, over the maintenance and ownership fees yeilds $0.62 (@ $1.20) to $0.92 (@ $1.50) in net value per point per year. In the $1.50 per point example, that's $1.50 - $0.53 annual maintenance fee - $0.05 annual dues ($185 / 4,000 points) per point. Simply dividing the annual "return" on a point into the initial "investment" in that point is a simple calculation of interest as if it were a perpetual bond.

Internal 30-year Rate of Return: 6.1% to 11.5% return on investment
This method looks at all future cash flows and then finds the interest rate that would make the net present value $0. The range of results for our particular situation is 6.1% (at $1.20/point) to 10.4% (at $1.50/point). Add about a point to that if you successfully acquired a resale allotment of points at a discount vs. buying from Marriott direct. Note that this method doesn't contemplate some big things, including (a) the inflation hedge benefit of MVC ownership, (b) any residual value at 30 years, meaning that if the ownership still has value or can be re-sold for any amount at the end of the 30 year period, that's just a bonus.

Breakeven exit period: 3-7 years
The amount of time it'd take to be able to realize a break-even proposition when netting out (a) upfront costs (b) future savings and (c) cash-out in this case assuming the ability to sell at $4 per point in the resale market. Buying direct from Marriott range is 4-7 years, with 3 years possible if you get a good resale deal and realize $1.50 annual booking value per point.

Payback period: 8-12 years
Similar to the above, but assuming you're not going to sell and exit, it'd take a little longer to reach the point at which the total amount you've paid is equal to the total market value of the travel that you've booked through MVCI. Shave a year off both ends if you score a great deal on a resale. It's interesting to note that this goes to 20 years if the booking value per point drops to $1.00.

Cumulative Net Value: possibly over $100,000
In taking the cumulative net values of all incoming and outgoing cash, and not discounting or adjusting for inflation due to an assumption that while the cost of maintenance will go up over time, so will the cost of travel in general (they net each other out), here's the estimated net value at various milestones (looking at buying direct from Marriott only, as the additional value gained from scoring a good resale stake is minimal)

Time @$1.20 @1.50
1 year -$9,044 -$3,124
5 years -$4,034 $4,246
10 years $8,441 $22,721
20 years $33,391 $59,671
30 years $58,341 $96,621
.... and it'd keep going up from here

Cumulative Relative Discount: 20-40% cheaper travel for long-term MCVI owners
Using the same math as the payback period, this compares the total you've spent vs. the market value of all of your travel at various points in time, to calculate the cumulative effective discount (or premium) you've had on your travel due to being a MVCI owner. Here are some examples at various milestones...

Time @$1.20 @1.50
5 years +49.7% +26.1% (the + means you're paying more in the early years)
10 years +10.3% - 9.0%
20 years - 16.9% - 32.4%
30 years - 27.6% - 41.4%
.... and the discount would keep going in the same direction

Financial Summary
The stuff above made this a pretty easy decision for us, or at least easily justifiable from a financial perspective. Of course it all falls apart of the average booking value of a point goes down though. For example, if it falls to $1.00 then the payback period becomes 20 years and the IRR falls to 2.7%-3.9%; so it's really important that we continue to be able to book trips for fewer DC points than it'd cost $USD to book outside of the MVCI structure. This is why I'm very interested to hear your actual experience and perceived booking value of a DC point.

Intangible Benefits
And of course there are many cherries on top. I've been a frequent Marriott traveler w/ lifetime gold status, and enjoy and trust the brand. The ability to get early access to booking very desirable 2 and 3-br villas is going to be great for our family. As is the fact that being part of MVCI makes it easier and less awkward to invite friends and family to just come along, since everything is paid for already anyway (close enough). Not to mention other perks and experiences through Interval International, Homes, Cruises, MVP discounted bookings, etc. Plus just having something that psychologically feels like we're building wealth, having fun, and being part of a club; and ultimately can pass this down to our kids -- all of that stuff is truly icing on the cake to use a second dessert analogy in the same paragraph.

Anyway, if you've made it this far through this rambling post--uhh--thank you?! Sorry?! I'd love to hear feedback though to help us confirm whether we've made a good choice or not. How do you all feel about being MVCI members? Any regrets? Feeling the value? Thanks!

PS: Kudos to our TS Sales Rep w/ MVCI Allen Larkin. He was very transparent, forthcoming, and helpful. I'd recommend him to anyone that wants to learn more about MVCI.

So basically it will take you 8 to 12 years to break even based on your math.

I am not looking at all the funny math, but it seems like a bad deal to me by my simple business sense.

Also, 1 special assessment and your calculations are broken and MF historically go up higher than rental rates..


It looks like you created a justification to buy. Nothing wrong with that but in terms of payback/breakeven, anything more than 2 years is usually a bad deal.

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[JIMinNC]

3. Points (premium experience - that means it's expensive but gets you ultimate autonomy and flexibility including access to any unit anywhere before the rest of the world gets access to it, the ability to stay whatever duration you want (2 nights, 7 nights, 23 nights, whatever), and the simplest process of making, changing, or canceling plans; with little to none of the stress, constraints, time commitments, or risk involved in renting or exchanging.

I like your buckets, but will offer one clarification to the statement bolded above.

Points owners don't really get access to any unit before everyone else. While the detail behind the inventory assignment process used by MVCI is somewhat opaque, what we do know from the legal governing documents that support the program is that you can think of it as two buckets of inventory:

1. The Weeks Bucket. This includes traditional MVCI weeks which are NOT enrolled in the Destination Club, plus those which are enrolled, but the owner elects not to convert their week to points in any given year. These weeks are available to owners to book at their home resort for use, or to deposit to Interval International for trading purposes. Weeks owners are competing only with other weeks owners for the inventory in this bucket. Reservations can be made at 12 months, or 13 months for multi-week owners.
2. The Points Bucket. This includes all weeks owned by the MVC Trust (which is the inventory that backs up the Points you are buying), plus the weeks that Weeks-based owners "elect" for points in any given year. These "elected" weeks are deposited into an entity referred to as the MVC Exchange Company. (There are also other ways weeks may find their way into the Exchange company, such as weeks owners convert to Marriott Rewards points might be put into the Exchange Company by MVCI.) Under the program rules, the inventory in the MVC Trust is available for booking ONLY by other Trust Points (like those 4,000 you own now). Trust owners also have access to the inventory deposited into the MVC Exchange Company. Enrolled owners who do not own Trust points can only access the inventory in the MVC Exchange Company. In actual practice, however, the weeks owned by the MVC Trust usually get deposited into the MVC Exchange Company sometime very early in the reservation window, making them available to ALL points - both Trust and Enrolled/Elected - at that point. Points reservations can be made at 13 months out (the lowest level owners pay a 20% premium to book prior to 12 months out), but not all of the inventory gets released at 13 months. MVCI holds back at least half and saves it for the 12 month release date.

So, bottom line - weeks inventory stays in the Weeks bucket and can only be claimed by other weeks owners. Points inventory stays in the Points bucket and can only be claimed by Points.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

So basically it will take you 8 to 12 years to break even based on your math.

I am not looking at all the funny math, but it seems like a bad deal to me by my simple business sense.

Also, 1 special assessment and your calculations are broken and MF historically go up higher than rental rates..


It looks like you created a justification to buy. Nothing wrong with that but in terms of payback/breakeven, anything more than 2 years is usually a bad deal.

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Setting the whole timeshare debate to the side for a moment, your simple business sense seems to be exceptionally simple! If everyone shared your logic then literally businesses would not exist.

 

[JIMinNC]

So basically it will take you 8 to 12 years to break even based on your math.

I am not looking at all the funny math, but it seems like a bad deal to me by my simple business sense.

Also, 1 special assessment and your calculations are broken and MF historically go up higher than rental rates..


It looks like you created a justification to buy. Nothing wrong with that but in terms of payback/breakeven, anything more than 2 years is usually a bad deal.

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I disagree that you have to get a 2-year payback or it's a bad business deal. For someone who is in their 30's, as the OP is, it's a potentially very long-term ownership. He may own and use this for 30-40 years or longer. So an 8-12 year breakeven still leaves 25-30 years where he should be "in the black." While it's certainly possible with a resale purchase of a traditional week to get a 2-year payback or less, it's been well established in the 211 posts that precede this one that the traditional weeks system may not work well for the OP.

I did some research a while back in another thread, and over the long term, hotel lodging rates have increased at 3% to 5% annually, very similar to the rate of Marriott maintenance fee increases. While the underlying economic factors that drive rates and maintenance fees are somewhat different, for the purposes of a rent vs buy comparison, comparing the two is relevant. In fact if you compare BocaBoy's rate in 1973 of $45/night at the Royal Hawaiian (post #168) to the current rate around $350-$400/night, that comes out to an average annual rate of increase of about 4.5% to 5%.

Special assessments are fairly rare in the Marriott system because it tends to be well managed. There are exceptions like the recent Hurricane Matthew assessment in Hilton Head (one time $75 bucks at Barony). Hilton Head's Monarch also has a current assessment spread over 2 or 3 years for some renovations/repairs not included in the reserves - but these assessments would likely not have a material impact on a 20-40 year ownership pro forma (as long as they didn't happen often).

 

[Jason245]

Setting the whole timeshare debate to the side for a moment, your simple business sense seems to be exceptionally simple! If everyone shared your logic then literally businesses would not exist.

That is the walmart model(but what the heck do they know).

I have done this with hgvc timeshares successfully. (Payback in rental savings vs mf in less than 8 months).

You also never took into account the opportunity cost of the cash you used for buy in (e.g. the interest you would have got on your "investment ").







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[Saintsfanfl]

So basically it will take you 8 to 12 years to break even based on your math.

I am not looking at all the funny math, but it seems like a bad deal to me by my simple business sense.

Also, 1 special assessment and your calculations are broken and MF historically go up higher than rental rates..


It looks like you created a justification to buy. Nothing wrong with that but in terms of payback/breakeven, anything more than 2 years is usually a bad deal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

There can't be a special assessment on the points. It would be extremely watered down and part of the annual increase. A special assessment at Ocean Pointe is unlikely but if it did happen the OP would still be ahead vs straight points.

A bad deal from a business sense is not correct from the OP's perspective. He is not doing it for any business purpose and he doesn't have an acceptable alternative to getting the same or the equivalent. I think it's a fair deal for his purposes. He may feel differently if he doesn't have the time to figure out what to book and where but that will have to come later.

 

[JIMinNC]

That is the walmart model(but what the heck do they know).

I have done this with hgvc timeshares successfully. (Payback in rental savings vs mf in less than 8 months).

You also never took into account the opportunity cost of the cash you used for buy in (e.g. the interest you would have got on your "investment ").

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We're not saying it's impossible to get a less than two year payback, just that if the purchase that gets you the short payback doesn't meet your needs, then THAT is the definition of a bad business deal.

 

[Jason245]

I disagree that you have to get a 2-year payback or it's a bad business deal. For someone who is in their 30's, as the OP is, it's a potentially very long-term ownership. He may own and use this for 30-40 years or longer. So an 8-12 year breakeven still leaves 25-30 years where he should be "in the black." While it's certainly possible with a resale purchase of a traditional week to get a 2-year payback or less, it's been well established in the 211 posts that precede this one that the traditional weeks system may not work well for the OP.

I did some research a while back in another thread, and over the long term, hotel lodging rates have increased at 3% to 5% annually, very similar to the rate of Marriott maintenance fee increases. While the underlying economic factors that drive rates and maintenance fees are somewhat different, for the purposes of a rent vs buy comparison, comparing the two is relevant. In fact if you compare BocaBoy's rate in 1973 of $45/night at the Royal Hawaiian (post #168) to the current rate around $350-$400/night, that comes out to an average annual rate of increase of about 4.5% to 5%.

Special assessments are fairly rare in the Marriott system because it tends to be well managed. There are exceptions like the recent Hurricane Matthew assessment in Hilton Head (one time $75 bucks at Barony). Hilton Head's Monarch also has a current assessment spread over 2 or 3 years for some renovations/repairs not included in the reserves - but these assessments would likely not have a material impact on a 20-40 year ownership pro forma (as long as they didn't happen often).

I am in my 30s.. and it wouldn't matter if I was in my 20s or in my 60s. Life happens.. divorce, illness, unemployment, economic downturn etc..

If you can predict your family and financial situation and economic and heath one for 10 years from now god bless you are a much better fortune teller than me.

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[Fasttr]

I like your buckets, but will offer one clarification to the statement bolded above.

Points owners don't really get access to any unit before everyone else. While the detail behind the inventory assignment process used by MVCI is somewhat opaque, what we do know from the legal governing documents that support the program is that you can think of it as two buckets of inventory:

1. The Weeks Bucket. This includes traditional MVCI weeks which are NOT enrolled in the Destination Club, plus those which are enrolled, but the owner elects not to convert their week to points in any given year. These weeks are available to owners to book at their home resort for use, or to deposit to Interval International for trading purposes. Weeks owners are competing only with other weeks owners for the inventory in this bucket. Reservations can be made at 12 months, or 13 months for multi-week owners.
2. The Points Bucket. This includes all weeks owned by the MVC Trust (which is the inventory that backs up the Points you are buying), plus the weeks that Weeks-based owners "elect" for points in any given year. These "elected" weeks are deposited into an entity referred to as the MVC Exchange Company. (There are also other ways weeks may find their way into the Exchange company, such as weeks owners convert to Marriott Rewards points might be put into the Exchange Company by MVCI.) Under the program rules, the inventory in the MVC Trust is available for booking ONLY by other Trust Points (like those 4,000 you own now). Trust owners also have access to the inventory deposited into the MVC Exchange Company. Enrolled owners who do not own Trust points can only access the inventory in the MVC Exchange Company. In actual practice, however, the weeks owned by the MVC Trust usually get deposited into the MVC Exchange Company sometime very early in the reservation window, making them available to ALL points - both Trust and Enrolled/Elected - at that point. Points reservations can be made at 13 months out (the lowest level owners pay a 20% premium to book prior to 12 months out), but not all of the inventory gets released at 13 months. MVCI holds back at least half and saves it for the 12 month release date.

So, bottom line - weeks inventory stays in the Weeks bucket and can only be claimed by other weeks owners. Points inventory stays in the Points bucket and can only be claimed by Points.

A couple points to clarify....

Regarding your comment that I have bolded above, which is "but not all of the inventory gets released at 13 months. MVCI holds back at least half and saves it for the 12 month release date."....

Per the Exchange Company docs, this is what it actually says...
Exchange Company may limit the Use Periods and the Accommodations on a Component-by-Component basis that are available for reservation during the Priority 1 Period, and may withhold up to fifty percent (50%) of the Use Periods and Accommodations at any particular Component for reservation during other Reservation Windows, all as determined from time to time in Exchange Company’s sole discretion.

Just clarifying that there is a big difference between "at least half" and "up to 50%". One means at least half will be saved, when in reality, zero could be saved.

Its also worth noting that also available to The Points Bucket as you have described it, is MVC's ability to pull needed inventory from Interval International in order to fill a reservation request.

 

[Jason245]

We're not saying it's impossible to get a less than two year payback, just that if the purchase that gets you the short payback doesn't meet your needs, then THAT is the definition of a bad business deal.

No purchase is better than a bad one. Better to hold your cash and wait.. earn interest on it and rent until the right deal appears that meets those criteria. .

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[JIMinNC]

Thanks for the clarification. I think the assumption is that, in practice, they limit the inventory available at 13 months, since availability SEEMS to always get better at 12 months, but you are correct as to what the rules allow.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

So then you unload and move on. I realize it might not be the wisest approach for most people but I don't think it's that big of a deal. Many tuggers started out paying quite a bit for their timeshares but I don't think many regret it.

I am in my 30s.. and it wouldn't matter if I was in my 20s or in my 60s. Life happens.. divorce, illness, unemployment, economic downturn etc..

If you can predict your family and financial situation and economic and heath one for 10 years from now god bless you are a much better fortune teller than me.

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[Saintsfanfl]

No purchase is better than a bad one. Better to hold your cash and wait.. earn interest on it and rent until the right deal appears that meets those criteria. .

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The OP made it clear they would not be interested in prepaying up front to an unknown party. Their alternative would be marriott.com. Easy, no prepayment, and full cancellation ability.

 

[JIMinNC]

No purchase is better than a bad one. Better to hold your cash and wait.. earn interest on it and rent until the right deal appears that meets those criteria. .

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Have you read all of the 200+ posts that preceded? We've debated the rent vs buy decision ad naseum as it relates to the OP's needs. Resale weeks (where the 2 yr payback bargains are) didn't work for the OP. The OP wanted Points. Resale Marriott Points are still expensive. For Marriott Points, he got a decent deal.

 

[Jason245]

The OP made it clear they would not be interested in prepaying up front to an unknown party. Their alternative would be marriott.com. Easy, no prepayment, and full cancellation ability.

Marriott . com is a rental

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[JIMinNC]

Marriott . com is a rental

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Yes. But they are very expensive. Compared to booking on Marriott.com, Points ownership is a good deal.