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HICV Cease and Desist Letter

skotrla

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I received the attached cease and desist letter from HICV.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8AHvGd-vld_Zlp5dkhSNEJwdEU

I've removed HICV properties from the other rental site and I've removed the rental file/link from this site and stopped using their logo.

I'm a little unclear on buying and selling deeds and how that could be prohibited. From what I can gather, they are claiming that having units listed for sale is a violation of terms of the HICV club?

I looked through my paperwork I signed when I made a direct purchase and I can't find those clauses. Has anyone else seen them before?

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 

Sandy

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Hi Scott,

I read through the letter you posted. Did you compare the language in the letter with your documents? It might be several things:

Your docs when you bought do not have the language.

The "new" policies do have the language.

Is it possible that you are "grandfathered" in your favor by the terms of your initial agreement?

The points program might have this language as compared with the weeks units. If I recall you own both types of units with HICV HIVC.

We know that RCI will not allow us to rent out a trade because they "own" the rights. But I thought that once you bought your own units you could do whatever you wanted with them.

You can design a work-a-round to meet your needs. Perhaps your publicity is what bothered them. So taking down their logo might be what they really want. After all, you are in direct competition with their sales reps.

I am sure that others are doing what you have been doing, so it will be interesting to see if anyone else comments on this letter.
 

SueDonJ

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I'm not an HICV owner but this one bears watching, IMO, because it's a cease-and-desist letter that specifically cites a vaguely-defined prohibition against "commercial activity" (which you may legally be doing if you're making a profit off of brokering other owners' sales/rentals.) Most of the "big" timeshare players have some version of similar language in their governing docs but none of them routinely or consistently enforce penalties for any/all owners who make money buying, selling and/or renting out timeshares. I wouldn't sit on this, continue your website activity, or assume anything without at least consulting a qualified attorney for advice, because they make it clear that your ownership usage will be suspended if you don't comply with their demands.

I agree with Sandy that they're fully within their rights to demand that you stop using their proprietary logos, pictures, etc on your websites. But their letter also makes clear, IMO, that that's their secondary concern.

Thanks for sharing this with TUG, and good luck.
 

tschwa2

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I have heard the same thing happening to some bluegreen owners/renters. It wasn't the rental activity itself that drew the attention it was a dedicated rental website and use of copyrighted logo's and in some cases copyrighted pictures of the resorts.
 

Sandy

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The copyright issue does make sense, and all of these organizations would be within their rights to prohibit the use of their logos.

OTOH, as an owner (not a trader through II or RCI) I always thought you could rent your unit or your points if you make a reservation on behalf of another person.
 

SueDonJ

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The copyright issue does make sense, and all of these organizations would be within their rights to prohibit the use of their logos.

OTOH, as an owner (not a trader through II or RCI) I always thought you could rent your unit or your points if you make a reservation on behalf of another person.

You can. But most, if not all, of the big players have always had language in their governing docs that prohibits rentals or sales by owners that constitutes "commercial activity." It's not something that's well-defined in any system although across all of them it appears to be completely at the discretion of developers/managers whether and when they'll enforce any penalties. It also doesn't appear that any of them are required to enforce penalties across all accounts, meaning that they're free to penalize individual accounts without regard for any other owners' rental activity.

DVC/Disney is the only one I know of that actually puts a limit on the number of owner rentals allowed per use year, via limiting the number of owner reservations to which a guest name can be added, after which owner accounts will be flagged for review and usage rights suspended in the event they believe "commercial activity" is happening. Even then it's only fairly recently that Disney implemented this system; at the time it was widely considered - and heralded - by many owners to be a response to the ever-increasing complaints by owners of how private rentals were increasingly impacting their ability to reserve high-demand intervals. It's probably more likely a result of owner rentals impacting DVC/Disney's bottom line for cash stays but either way, the result is the same.

It appears that the recent changes announced by Wyndham especially with respect to adding guest names to concurrent reservations, now getting healthy play in TUG's Wyndham forum, are at least in part a response to the same type of complaints.

So at least some of the big players are slowly tackling the issue of owner rentals (and I expect that eventually they all will.) Like I said I'm not an HICV owner so my take on the letter this OP has received could be all wrong. No doubt the posts here relating the OP's cease-and-desist letter to use of HICV's proprietary logos/pictures/etc are correct. I'm just saying that the letter may ALSO be related to the OP's sales/rentals activity and if so, he stands to lose a lot more than just the privilege of using HICV pics/logos on his websites. For me, the risk is worth at least consulting with a qualified attorney. As always, YMMV.
 

mentalbreak

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The letter mentions "auctions, rentals, or sales". Is renting your deeded week actually prohibited?!?
 

skotrla

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Here's a post on Google+ that makes a very good point - I'm planning to take this to the HICV lawyer for a response:

"If you would like to read your contract you can go to orangelake.com/legaldocuments. You should have been given the username and password in your closing documents.

Here is what it states concerning resale and rentals.

d. Restrictions Upon Rental or Resale
There is no restriction on the sale, lease or transfer of Timeshare Interests.

The paragraph in your letter comes from a document called:
"Disclosure Guide To
Holiday Inn Club® Exchange Program"

(g) Personal Use and Enjoyment Only. The Club is intended solely for the
personal use and enjoyment of Members and their guests. Members are strictly
prohibited from using, or allowing others to use, their membership, Club Points, or
Reservations, for business or commercial purposes, specifically including, but not
limited to, use through auctions, rentals or sales.


I am not quite sure how you can restrict usage in an addendum to something they plainly state in the contract."

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 

tschwa2

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I am not quite sure how you can restrict usage in an addendum to something they plainly state in the contract."

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group

You have a deeded right to rent what you own. HICV exchange program is the points program and like RCI, etc they can restrict your ability to rent what you obtain through their internal exchange program. So you can secure your home fixed or float week and go to town renting it. The Club and reservations you obtain through the club though is what they are restricting your ability to rent.
 

skotrla

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You have a deeded right to rent what you own. HICV exchange program is the points program and like RCI, etc they can restrict your ability to rent what you obtain through their internal exchange program. So you can secure your home fixed or float week and go to town renting it. The Club and reservations you obtain through the club though is what they are restricting your ability to rent.

Got it - that makes sense. Glad I didn't email the HICV lawyer and open up that can of worms again.

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 

skotrla

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I've kind of been wondering about the timing - does buying a retail unit from HICV open you up to these commercial restrictions? Reservations for the 3 points resorts are made through the HICV points system - how would they restrict rentals made with points an an exchange vs. rentals made with the deed, which are also made with points? If you violate the terms of the HICV program, HICV could certainly take away status, and they could certainly revert any fixed weeks that they converted to points back to fixed weeks, but how would they prevent you from using your South Beach, Smoky Mountain, and Lake Geneva deeds, where all reservations are made through the HICV system?

-Scott
Owner, HICV Google+ Group
 

tschwa2

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They could restrict renting to reservations made in the home access.

The Power to Return RESERVE FROM 3 YEARS TO 12 MONTHS PRIOR TO DESIRED ARRIVAL DATE* You fell in love with the resort where you purchased your Home Week. It’s very likely you will want to return often. Choice and flexibility are key to your Club membership. So we’ve given you the ability to reserve 3 years to 12 months in advance, the most flexible program in the industry. It offers you the best of both worlds. Here’s how you will be able to have many happy returns. This window is for a 7-night stay in the villa you purchased.

YOU MUST CALL TO RESERVE YOUR HOME WEEK Call us as much as 3 years in advance, but no later than 12 months prior to your desired arrival date. The use of your villa and week is guaranteed. You will not be competing with anyone else. Please note that Home Access reservations must use current Use Year Points. If you choose to use saved or borrowed Points, transaction fees will apply [QUOTE/]

It sounds like there is no transaction fee to book the home week during this period. They could say anything that incurs a transaction fee is a club reservation and subject to the non deeded changeable rules that the club imposes.
 
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