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forclose and default a timeshare

ccwu

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I have a timeshare - Tahoe season. I owned it since or before 1990. I bought on eBay for my son to use when he was in college in SF area. He actually just use the owner's bonus nights for weekends.

He graduated and moved out. I never went to the timeshare. I have been advertised on Redweek.com for years trying to sell it for $1. I also tried on eBay to sell it at $1. No taker.

I called the resort and telling them that from the fee history that I download from the owner's site and found out I paid fees during the period since 1990 for about $19,400 and not being able to use it. The said they do not buy back timeshare. They advised me to advertise in some website, such as redweek.com. I told them that I tried already for 4 years and not able to sell it.

I asked them, if I stop paying the maintenance fee and taxes, what will happen. They said that they will turn over to collection and foreclose my timeshare.

Anyone know foreclose and default a timeshare? How much that will cost me?
 

bshmerlie

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The bad part is...it's going to go on your credit rating as a default. But I suppose you could always say, "It was a timeshare..what do you expect?" Some people might understand.:D
 

DeniseM

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Instead of trying to sell it - even for a dollar - try giving it away:


Why?
-You can give it away yourself for nearly no cost.
-You can control the transfer process to make sure it is truly transferred out of your name.
-You won't have to deal with companies that may or may not be Legit.
-You can transfer it to a private individual who will be happy to have it for their own use.
-You will have the satisfaction of knowing that you ended your ownership legally and ethically.

There are TWO places on TUG where you can give away your TS's for free (no charge for the Ads.) There are other cheap and free sites on the internet, as well.

TUG Marketplace - the only cost is your TUG membership - $15 (List it for $1 and it will automatically go in the Bargain Basement Ads.)

Bargain Deals Forum - Totally FREE! - just write a simple post with all the pertinent info. In your post, include the following info.:
-resort name
-unit size
-season owned
-maintenance fee
-current reservations​

To make it more attractive I would:

1) Pay the 2012/2013 maintenance fees and don't ask for reimbursement.

2) Pay for the title transfer (you can get a simple title transfer with no escrow or title search for about $100.) Many people have used Tugger TTT (Alan) at Time Travel Traders for this service in the past, but he is retired and is referring most business to Lisa Short for this service - 1.706.969.8906 readylegal@gmail.com Lisa has been receiving good reviews on TUG.

3) Reserve a popular holiday week in 2012/13 for the new owner

4) Instead of paying a fee to a rescue company - consider offering a cash incentive to the new owner.

5) Here is the very important step that most people miss: Come back to TUG once a week and add more info. to your thread to bump it to the top.

Good luck!
 

timeos2

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You bought it & owe for it. If you want to suffer the (probably) minor problems a foreclosure will generate then you will be rid of it. Easier & legal vs all the "pay us to take your week" scams that will ask for thousands from you.

Give it away or just stop paying. One way or the other it will be gone. That's all you really want so just use the system, suffer the consequences and move on.
 
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ccwu

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Thanks for the advices. I tried the marketplace and no response.

I will consider the alternatives again before I default. I paid up 2012 maintenance and reserved a February week for ski season in 2013. I did advertise to pay all the closing cost. If no respond to my ad, I will stop pay maintenance fee in 2013 and default.
 

LisaH

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I have a timeshare - Tahoe season. I owned it since or before 1990. I bought on eBay for my son to use when he was in college in SF area. He actually just use the owner's bonus nights for weekends.

Are you sure? Because eBay did not start until 1995...

Sorry. just can't help...:D
 

DeniseM

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Thanks for the advices. I tried the marketplace and no response.

If you are serious about getting rid of your timeshare, you should go back and read my post - because you missed most of it. Giving a timeshare away takes some effort - one post in the classifieds won't do it.

Instead of trying to sell it - even for a dollar - try giving it away:

->->->Bargain Deals Forum - Totally FREE! - just write a simple post with all the pertinent info. In your post, include the following info.:
-resort name
-unit size
-season owned
-maintenance fee
-current reservations​

To make it more attractive I would:

1) Pay the 2012/2013 maintenance fees and don't ask for reimbursement.

2) Pay for the title transfer (you can get a simple title transfer with no escrow or title search for about $100.) Many people have used Tugger TTT (Alan) at Time Travel Traders for this service in the past, but he is retired and is referring most business to Lisa Short for this service - 1.706.969.8906 readylegal@gmail.com Lisa has been receiving good reviews on TUG.

3) Reserve a popular holiday week in 2012/13 for the new owner

4) Instead of paying a fee to a rescue company - consider offering a cash incentive to the new owner.

5) Here is the very important step that most people miss: Come back to TUG once a week and add more info. to your thread to bump it to the top.

Good luck!
 
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theo

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You need to ask a DIFFERENT question...

<snip> I called the resort and telling them that from the fee history that I download from the owner's site and found out I paid fees during the period since 1990 for about $19,400 and not being able to use it. The said they do not buy back timeshare. <snip>

Have you also specifically asked the resort (...preferably in writing to the HOA, not just by phone conversation with a front desk lackey who possesses no actual decision making authority of any kind in the first place...) whether or not they will accept a "deedback", i.e. take back your deed in lieu of foreclosure?

While they are surely (as you've already discovered) entirely unwilling to buy your week back at any price, they may be willing to accept a "deedback" (i.e., take it back at no actual cost to them). If they are on the fence, you might even have to also offer to pay the next years' maintenance fee (forfeiting your right to access or use for that year) in order to maybe swing them your way. That would give the HOA a full year to sell the week to someone else (or rent it out while trying) at zero cost to them. Even then, they might very well still decline, but it costs you nothing but a few minutes of writing and a postage stamp to initiate a formal, written inquiry to the right people (i.e., the HOA / BOD).

If the HOA / BOD truly believes that your willful choice of alternative to a voluntary deedback is taking a position of "Go right ahead and foreclose then, I'm done paying you any further maintenence fees", they just might relent and accept your deed in lieu of foreclosure. Foreclosure proceedings will ultimately cost them "out of pocket" money to initiate and complete that process (one which will also ultimately result in the formal reporting of a default on your personal credit report, as has already been correctly noted by others).

There may be a win / win solution available here, but you have to ask the right question of the right people in order to definitively and conclusively find out. Don't even bother talking with desk clerks on the telephone, whose only "authority" is to pick up and answer the phone if it happens to ring while they are sitting there.

At least give it a try --- and Good Luck! :hi:
 
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theo

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I'm confused...

This proprerty couldn't get a Special Assesement passed and my recollection is they have been making it up up with large dues increases each year


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32020

OP specifically lists Ridge Tahoe among his / her ownerships, but the above link apparently discusses a facility called Tahoe Seasons. Are these not two different, unrelated properties or am I missing something? (...always a possibility, of course). :shrug: :confused: :shrug:
 

Talent312

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A deed-back "in lieu of foreclosure" is a far different kettle of fish than asking the resort buy it back. It would save the resort the expense of foreclosure. You need to talk to the chief operating officer or the President of the HOA.

It would and save you the misery of collection calls and a hit to your credit rating which could result in credit denials or make financing more expensive, including car loans, credit cards, insurance premiums, and property rentals.
 

Rent_Share

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I have a timeshare - Tahoe season. ?

Resorts: HGVC (Elite plus) , DRI (Platinum elite), BlueGreen (gold elite), VI, Ridge Tahoe, Wyndham and other...

I assumed he was referring to Tahoe Season(s)

His Engrish grates on my nerves
 

timeos2

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A deed-back "in lieu of foreclosure" is a far different kettle of fish than asking the resort buy it back. It would save the resort the expense of foreclosure. You need to talk to the chief operating officer or the President of the HOA.

It would and save you the misery of collection calls and a hit to your credit rating which could result in credit denials or make financing more expensive, including car loans, credit cards, insurance premiums, and property rentals.


It certainly isn't always the case but there are situations where an Association will not take a deed back but will, after collections fail, offer a deed in lieu rather than foreclose. While on the surface that may not seem to make sense as they get it back either way there are reasons for it. At least in some cases the Association may have an agreement with a third party to accept Deed in Lieu of Foreclosures at little or no cost to the Association and supply a paying owner for those ownerships. If the same Association simply says "we'll take a deed back" then the owners have to eat the ownership and the associated fees as the agreement(s) don't allow for that type of transfer to be taken by the third party. The reason is they need to know that in fact it is a case of an owner being unable - not just wishing - to transfer their time out of their name and responsibility. The collection process weeds out those that just wanted an easy out vs those that really cannot or will not pay. Once that is established it is less expensive to accept a deed in lieu rather than go through a costly foreclosure if it can be avoided.

So at least in those cases it is definitely meeting the letter of the law that the best interest of the owners is to not accept deed backs, yet at some point to offer a deed in lieu to those that truly need an out. There are many other scenarios that can apply and may or may not make taking deed backs the right choice for a given Association. Each need to act in the best interest of all owners not on a minority group. It has to be an individual resort decision what is best for them.
 

ronparise

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So at least in those cases it is definitely meeting the letter of the law that the best interest of the owners is to not accept deed backs, yet at some point to offer a deed in lieu to those that truly need an out.

John

You seem to be making a distinction between an owner that wont pay but can, and one that cant pay

From the resorts perspective, I dont see that there is any difference.

And it would be in the best interest of the other owners to get this deed back into the control of the association as soon as and as cheaply as possible.
 

Phill12

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I have never been inside your resort but own Ridge Tahoe and have for many years and love Lake Tahoe area. I see your resort offered all the time for $1.00 on many sites and don't understand why.

You might try offering to pay all cost plus give a new owner $1000 to cover next MF cost and see what happens. Still say best way to sell is if you ever stayed there just talk to other owners. Without trying couple years ago we decided to checkout selling one of our units and had two interested buyers in a three hour period.

We sold the unit for $2000 and the Ridge office even helped with all the paper work since it was another owner buying it.

You don't know what your missing by not taking a vacation to Lake Tahoe and enjoying your timeshare.

My only other recommendation would be try Paradise Timeshare Resales down in the Marriott shopping area as they do sell and no upfront fee but take good amount from sale. Even then you would lose money if sold for a dollar I THINK IT IS NOW OWNED BY A TUGGER!.:clap:

PHILL12
 

timeos2

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John

You seem to be making a distinction between an owner that wont pay but can, and one that cant pay

From the resorts perspective, I dont see that there is any difference.

And it would be in the best interest of the other owners to get this deed back into the control of the association as soon as and as cheaply as possible.

Ron - I am interested in how it benefits the majority of owners to take in a deed back that they must then somehow pay the fees on (usually means increased annual fees for those who pay) vs having a successful collection effort or a no cost foreclosure / deed in lieu & a new paying owner 6-8 months later? The first costs them the second doesn't. How is making the majority pay more a better or cheaper solution. Why is controlling the deed more important than having the week in a paying owners hands?

It makes no sense to me but maybe I'm missing something?
 

Rent_Share

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Discerning the difference between those who can't and won't pay is critical in managing collection costs.

Money spent on foreclosure on people who won't pay is recoverable,

Money spent on people who can't pay just increases the loss, so the HOA is ahead of the game by accepting the deedback.

Since the Market for resale timeshares is soft, limiting the number of non performing deeds in the Hands of the HOA is in the best interest of all owners.

The HOA from the timeshare I sold just passed the cost of non perfroming deeds on to the other owners
 
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bogey21

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Are you sure? Because eBay did not start until 1995...

Sorry. just can't help...:D

So what? I bought my first TS pre-construction at Sabal Palms. For the life of me I can't remember if I bought it in 1988 or 1993 or somewhere in between. And you know what? I don't care. I have more important things to remember.

George
 

Beefnot

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Collections costs money too. It may be best to have an exit strategy available for all owners. Those who simply want out pay X yrs MFs, and those who can meet the resort's pre-defined hardship criteria perhaps give them a cheaper or no-cost solution.

Also, I was going to ask the same question about purchasing on ebay in 1990 since that is not possible.
 

timeos2

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Collections costs money too. It may be best to have an exit strategy available for all owners. Those who simply want out pay X yrs MFs, and those who can meet the resort's pre-defined hardship criteria perhaps give them a cheaper or no-cost solution.

Also, I was going to ask the same question about purchasing on ebay in 1990 since that is not possible.

Collections cost nothing if you structure them correctly. There are readily available contracts that allow the money to be collected only from the debtors. Any money collected first goes to the Association until the full bill & interest/fees are paid then the collection penalty pays the agency. It costs the Association nothing.

It is very clear from these posts incorrectly stating that it somehow benefits the Association paying owners to accept weeks back at will thus creating an obligation for those other owners to pay the fees that those who propose this aren't actually involved in operation of a resort or resorts. Handled with proper rules and within the resort/ state timeshare/condo laws there is no need to generate additional costs for the owners. Any collections are paid for by the debtors not the general ownership, foreclosure (if ever needed) is paid by a third party that ultimately gets the ownership & can use, sell, rent it as can any other owner. If the rules are followed and collections are allowed to run their proper course then the end result is a new paying owner and zero cost to the Association.

So tell me again how it is better to simply take weeks back & cause those same owners to pay? This often repeated but incorrect statement by those who seem to think there must be an easy way out of debtors obligations are not thinking of the Associations or resorts or owners - they are projecting their ill-conceived and incorrect assumptions as facts. It is simply wrong and a bad route for a well run resort to follow.

I'm not at all against helping owners with resales or trying to create a vibrant and reliable market for resales - we need that desperately - but simply saying "take in unwanted ownerships on demand" is no answer and would kill most resorts if they blindly did that. Become involved in actual operations and collections and you too will know why it can't work and is detrimental to all.
 

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Ron - I am interested in how it benefits the majority of owners to take in a deed back that they must then somehow pay the fees on (usually means increased annual fees for those who pay) vs having a successful collection effort or a no cost foreclosure / deed in lieu & a new paying owner 6-8 months later? The first costs them the second doesn't. How is making the majority pay more a better or cheaper solution. Why is controlling the deed more important than having the week in a paying owners hands?

It makes no sense to me but maybe I'm missing something?

What you are missing and perhaps I didnt make clear is my underlyng assumption.....Im assuming an unsuccessful collections effort

I dont see the difference to the association between a deed in the hands of someone thats not paying vs the deed in the associations control. either way the association has to pass on the costs of operating the resort to the owners that do pay.

Actually i do see a difference. If the association gets control of the deed quickly they can get it into the hands of a new dues paying owner quickly

The faster the association can get control of the non performing asset the faster they can get it resold. A long drawn out unsuccessful collections effort benefits no one
 

ronparise

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Collections cost nothing if you structure them correctly. There are readily available contracts that allow the money to be collected only from the debtors. Any money collected first goes to the Association until the full bill & interest/fees are paid then the collection penalty pays the agency. It costs the Association nothing.

It is very clear from these posts incorrectly stating that it somehow benefits the Association paying owners to accept weeks back at will thus creating an obligation for those other owners to pay the fees that those who propose this aren't actually involved in operation of a resort or resorts. Handled with proper rules and within the resort/ state timeshare/condo laws there is no need to generate additional costs for the owners. Any collections are paid for by the debtors not the general ownership, foreclosure (if ever needed) is paid by a third party that ultimately gets the ownership & can use, sell, rent it as can any other owner. If the rules are followed and collections are allowed to run their proper course then the end result is a new paying owner and zero cost to the Association.

So tell me again how it is better to simply take weeks back & cause those same owners to pay? This often repeated but incorrect statement by those who seem to think there must be an easy way out of debtors obligations are not thinking of the Associations or resorts or owners - they are projecting their ill-conceived and incorrect assumptions as facts. It is simply wrong and a bad route for a well run resort to follow.

I'm not at all against helping owners with resales or trying to create a vibrant and reliable market for resales - we need that desperately - but simply saying "take in unwanted ownerships on demand" is no answer and would kill most resorts if they blindly did that. Become involved in actual operations and collections and you too will know why it can't work and is detrimental to all.

Of course it costs, at least if you are trying to collect from someone that is not going to pay, no matter what. Once its clear that Im not going to pay you, every day that is wasted trying to collect from me is a day without income form the timeshare...The sooner you accept the deed back, the sooner you can get it to someone that wants it and is willing to pay.

Time is money, and you are wasting time trying to collect from some folks
 

timeos2

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What you are missing and perhaps I didnt make clear is my underlyng assumption.....Im assuming an unsuccessful collections effort

I dont see the difference to the association between a deed in the hands of someone thats not paying vs the deed in the associations control. either way the association has to pass on the costs of operating the resort to the owners that do pay.

Actually i do see a difference. If the association gets control of the deed quickly they can get it into the hands of a new dues paying owner quickly

The faster the association can get control of the non performing asset the faster they can get it resold. A long drawn out unsuccessful collections effort benefits no one

And you must be missing my point. The Association NEVER pays the fees if collections are allowed to proceed as provided for in the ABC policies. IF the collection process fails there is no cost to the Association as the agency only collects a fee if they are successful & that comes from the debtor not the Association/owners.

If they fail then the week is at most 6-9 months delinquent so only one year at most has to be covered by the Association. But that, in the controlled amounts that naturally result from the proper collection process, can usually be partially or even completely offset by rentals. The Association automatically gets the right to rent the delinquent time as of the 30th day the owner is past due. They do NOT have to have title to have the right to rent that time. The owner, even if they later pay, may not claim the use rights if they have already been used. It is part of the penalty for late payment.

Then with a proper contract once the collections process is deemed to have failed the third party group steps in. They may offer a deed in lieu or proceed to foreclosure. It is up to them what is best. If there is a deed in lieu then the case is closed & the third party now owns the property and pays the fees. If foreclosure is required that group - not the Association - pays those costs & ultimately still ends up with the ownership & pays the fees. Either way the Association (the owners) pay nothing.

Saying that short circuiting the process to accept the time back into Association ownership and thus actually costing the owners is "better" makes zero sense. I know the feeling. I too fought for years when I didn't understand how it could make more sense to force a collections effort & possible cost of foreclosure vs simply accepting it back for free. Then I was proven wrong by the very process I outlined above. It costs the owners nothing, results in an incredible amount of payments (vs taking it back & despite the collection charges added!) and now I know that following the rules and procedures is in fact the best way to hold the fees needed from paying owners to the lowest possible level.

Some things that seem to make sense or save money simply don't work out that way in reality. This is one of those cases IF the Association has the proper procedure and contract in place. THAT, not accepting ownerships back & creating obligations/costs for the owners, is what a good management and Board should be doing for owners. That is what is in fact in the best interest of the Association & it's many members. It means staying on top of delinquencies and not allowing them to go beyond the 30 days that are required before action is taken. it means taking decisive action immediately and following through. It is management 101 and not the easy way out.
 

ronparise

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Discerning the difference between those who can't and won't pay is critical in managing collection costs.

Money spent on foreclosure on people who won't pay is recoverable,

Money spent on people who can't pay just increases the loss, so the HOA is ahead of the game by accepting the deedback.

Since the Market for resale timeshares is soft, limiting the number of non performing deeds in the Hands of the HOA is in the best interest of all owners.

The HOA from the timeshare I sold just passed the cost of non perfroming deeds on to the other owners

wont pay or cant pay: I dont see the difference, either way there is no payment

It seems that you would prefer to have the non perfoming deeds in the hands of the non paying owners rather than the association. That doesnt make sense to be

And I dont understand how "Money spent on foreclosure on people who won't pay is recoverable", But if that is the case it makes sense to skip the collections effort and start the foreclosure proceedings as soon as possible
 

timeos2

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Of course it costs, at least if you are trying to collect from someone that is not going to pay, no matter what. Once its clear that Im not going to pay you, every day that is wasted trying to collect from me is a day without income form the timeshare...The sooner you accept the deed back, the sooner you can get it to someone that wants it and is willing to pay.

Time is money, and you are wasting time trying to collect from some folks

I know you posted this before my last reply but I'll repeat. The Association can (and should) offer the delinquent time for rent immediately when they can (usaully 30 days). That is what they will do if they own it (in addition to trying to find a new owner). They do NOT have to own it to rent it. And if they have handled things correctly when the collection effort ends they already have a new buyer - something they DON'T have if they simply take it back.

I'm afraid you are simply wrong on this. I know I was before I fully understood how the proper collections/foreclosure/deed in lieu / resale can be handled. Now I see it work and know that the so called obvious route of simply taking weeks back is NOT the proper way to go. Make the system work and everyone(except the debtor) eventually wins and costs are held as low as possible.

Sorry if you already got it from my previous post. Didn't mean to repeat.
 
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