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First Lawsuit filed against Viking Ship LLCs / PCCs

Discussion in 'Buying, Selling, Renting' started by TUGBrian, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. TUGBrian

    TUGBrian Administrator

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    This lawsuit was just filed in california this week, its a vacation club that had a ton of their inventory weeks tied up by PCCS that had transferred ownerships to bogus corporations (ie the Viking Ship model)

    you'll likely see this as the beginning of a trend!

    case is

    americana vacation club vs Poy Developers LLC (and a TON of additional defendants)

    case number SC20130046
    filed in the superior court of California


    some of the names in the defendant list...youll read as a whos who in the timeshare "Transfer/relief/donation" world

     
  2. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Member

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    DANG! OMG! I most likely personally know (known) for 40 years one of these guys. He live down the street from me - he was an infamous real estate broker here in NJ back in the late 1970s. And I mean infamous - not just well known. And years ago I had heard he had moved to FL -- I googled the name and there are only 6 people in USA with that same name.

    He lived 5 doors down from me.
    ....
    So, if this guy is short, with a cleft lip, eyes looking in 2 different directions, 65-67 years old, doesn't know the truth if he step in it, most likely bald ==> could not happen to a better person.

    I guess I could call this his retirement plan - prison.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  3. klpca

    klpca TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I notice that Pacific Transfer & Timeshare Closing Service are listed right at the top. ;) Lots of chatter about them on the board.
     
  4. DaveNW

    DaveNW TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Wow! Linda, you should write a book! I kept hearing "The Sopranos" music as I read your post. :)

    Dave
     
  5. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Member

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    Dave, some people just have a persona you remember your whole life. Slimey or sleazy should have been his middle name. He brought the house down the street (in 1975 I do believe) ....

    You can't make up this stuff ...

    I editted the racy stuff out of my earlier post. My brother (the criminal defense lawyer) and I compared notes on him; said he will read the web legal stuff. He grew up 2 doors down the street from another good friend (until he got into selling Amway) of my brother. Bet Mr Amway's name might be in the pile also.;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  6. BocaBum99

    BocaBum99 TUG Member

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    Wow! This is huge. If they got the phone book for Orlando and named everyone in the City, the list wouldn't be longer. How could all of these defendents be colluding to defraud this resort?
     
  7. Fredm

    Fredm TUG Member

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    It's the tip the iceberg.

    If/when this ball of string starts to really unravel it will include the fraudulent owner and witness signatures, and Notary stamps used to transfer deeds on much of what winds up on eBay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  8. TUGBrian

    TUGBrian Administrator

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    as I understand it, these are all the llc's etc that currently "own" inventory for the plaintiff...

    will certainly be a very closely watched lawsuit.

    Ive often wondered how noone had gone after the individuals who opened up these LLCs for pure fraud....this should open the floodgates.
     
  9. TUGBrian

    TUGBrian Administrator

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    that said, the amount of money these folks have raked in over the past few years will likely overwhelm any actual hope of justice.
     
  10. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Member

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    Al Compone did NOT go to prison for gambling or killing or liquor. He went to prison not paying the IRS.

    Would all those deeds (with the fraudulate transfer) revert back to the old owners - along with all the costs incurred by the resort to bring this action, back MFs, late fees and collection actions against the original owners?
     
  11. e.bram

    e.bram Guest

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    What is the deference between PCCs and trust based point schemes?
     
  12. Rent_Share

    Rent_Share Guest

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    Doesn't appear that the suit has named any of the PCC victims (clients) as co conspirators, however there is that ever present Doe and Roe's 1- 100 which allow the complaint to be amended to add in as many additional defendants found during discovery.

    Noticed a long time Tug Subject: Uri L. Fried, a Wisconsin Resident
     
  13. Fredm

    Fredm TUG Member

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    You can bet on it.

    I wonder if other resorts can join the case.
     
  14. Fredm

    Fredm TUG Member

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    I don't think they colluded to defraud this resort specifically.
    The collected bad actors are doing it to everybody.
    Just that this resort is bringing action against everyone they can identify from their records.

    That's why I say it is the tip of the iceberg. This case will bring other resorts out of the woodwork. They all have the same problem.
     
  15. BocaBum99

    BocaBum99 TUG Member

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    I would really love to read the complaint. I found the CASE on the Superior Court of California website for El Dorado County. But, all it does is name the defendents like Brian did. There aren't any documents posted about the case. I guess that is for the attorneys for the defendents.
     
  16. Centurion

    Centurion Guest

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    I wonder why Timeshare Relief isn't named when David MacMillan and Cindy Martin are personally? Strange. Aren't they the "Big Fish" in the Viking ship model?
     
  17. BocaBum99

    BocaBum99 TUG Member

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    Anyone have a theory for the complaint and what the remedy might be to settle the case?

    It seems to me that the Vacation Club would argue that all of these parties implemented a business model to leave timeshare intervals in LLCs and leave them to die with a fraudulent intent to not pay maintenance fees.

    The defendents would claim that they tried to sell them off and create inventory for vacation clubs. But, the resort was so poorly managed that the inventory became worthless. So, there was no intent to defraud, but there was mismanagement by the resorts that lead to the zero value.

    Then, the defendents would offer to give back all the intervals at no cost. In other words, simply surrender the assets to the resort. The Vacation Club would agree to take it back if they brought all fees up to date plus maybe one year.

    Would that be what happens? It's a civil case, so there won't be any prison time for anyone.
     
  18. e.bram

    e.bram Guest

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    Is the plaintiff a trust based entity or have some other type of affiliation with the TS units? If a trust based operation then deeds aren't an issue just memberships. If the PCCs converted to points then the plaintiff should have done their due diligence before allowing the offending LLCs to join.
     
  19. Centurion

    Centurion Guest

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    Straw Men and worthless LLCs abound..

    My guess is your complaint estimate is about right. The problem is many of the entities sued likely have no other assets but the unwanted timeshares themselves. The PCCs don't want these timeshares anyway and my guess is they will allow a default judgement to be entered into and simply spend $50 to open a new LLC. The only possible way for this lawsuit to make any meaningful difference is if the principals of these llcs are sued personally. It looks to me that they have incorrectly targeted the "straw men/women" for some of the PCCs and not the principal organizers of the frauds (example Preferred Transfers and Kendra Albrecht in Washington).

    That being said, the real principals for some of the largest PCCs may be near impossible to find. They have hidden themselves behind such a web of corporate entities and straw men that they pay almost nothing to sign for the bogus entities that the lawsuit will be cost prohibitive for only one resort developer to handle on their own.
     
  20. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Member

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    My theory:
    Undo the deeding away from PCCs back to the original owners as it was fraud.

    Collect all costs from original owners - MFs, lawyers, interest, collection fees, etc.

    Reasoning: PCCs and their owners are not the deep pockets and would just file bankruptcy. May not collect on ALL the original owners, but they are the people who have decent credit, homes, bank accounts --- not likely candidates who would want a bad credit report. Most likely "sell" the debt to regional collection agencies.
     
  21. Centurion

    Centurion Guest

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    I see what you mean but there would be no legal justification to force the units back into the original owner's names. A fraudulent transfer did take place but these original owners did not have the intent to defraud. Most we're told their units would benefit a corporation or travel club. The units will need to be foreclosed on, or new units/points granted by the resorts. The original owners are in the clear IMO.
     
  22. vacationhopeful

    vacationhopeful TUG Member

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    If this California court ORDERS the transfer to the PCCs as INVALID, it will be as though it NEVER happened and the deeds would have remained. Original owners are then on the HOOK for all costs. Remember, Donald Duck is not a legal person/entity.

    Owners would have to individually sue and collect funds from the PCCs for NOT performing on the service the PCCs did sold.

    The resort could offer a settlement on the first round of all back MFs, additional costs in cash and individual owner KEEPS their property. If they don't want the timeshare, then MORE money would need to be paid to sign over their deed to resort.

    The resort/HOA is after the old owners credit report & scores. Remember, as old as these people are, they still need to sell their houses, buy cars, join retirement communities and use credit cards. And the old owners would be fighting this in California courts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  23. BocaBum99

    BocaBum99 TUG Member

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    I don't think so. First of all, the owners were not named as defendents. You are being influenced too much by TUG posters who push the idea of nullifying so called fraudulent transfers. I don't believe title was transferred fraudulently. A competent seller and a competent buyer entered into an agreement to transfer and the resort was notified and approved the transfer according to resort defined rules for transfer. In fact, if anything, the transfer was not fraudulent.

    It could be that an entity or group of entities set up a scheme to defraud the resort. But, the owner has no role in that scheme other than to be an unwitting accomplish who funded the act.

    By the way, when we were discussing this topic a year ago wasn't Ron P arguing that what would happen is a civil suit between the resort and the holding companies? It looks like we have the mother of all civil suits. This could end up doing exactly what the PCCs ultimately intended which was for the resorts to take back the timeshares in the first place. Wouldn't it have been easiser just to take them back in the first place with an aggressive deedback program?

    It is true that the only assets in most of these LLCs may be the timeshares that were transferred in. They would have to pierce the corporate veil in order to sue the officers or members of these LLCs. Since many individuals are named, my guess is they made an attempt to pierce that veil in this lawsuit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  24. BocaBum99

    BocaBum99 TUG Member

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    I'd be willing to bet money that your scenario will not be the one that plays out.

    The plaintiffs need to prove that the original intent was to simple take title and then default. If you go to the website of that Dr Rich guy, he has it posted that he will not pay maintenance fees. He is guilty. However, the other defendents wlll claim that they set up a business to resell and rent inventory from the holding company. They will show mountains of data proving they did exactly try to do that. They will then say, it's legal to set up a business to resell and rent inventory from a holding company. It is not illegal to go bankrupt. That will be their defense.

    Then, a jury will want to assign blame. Whose fault was it that these intervals ended up in dead end holding companies? The plaintiffs will argue that the PCCs and their principals caused it. The defendents will claim mismanagement of the resort caused it. The defendents proof would be to ask the simple question, why are your intervals worth zero or less? They will claim that the resorts set maintenance fees so high that they became worthless to any new buyer/owner.
     
  25. BocaBum99

    BocaBum99 TUG Member

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    I don't think a fraudulent transfer occurred. I think the transfer was legal. I think the only thing that is potentially illegal is the LLC. Were they set up to be timeshare graveyards? Or, were they set up to be travel club holding companies and they went out of business because the products they acquired turned negative.
     

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