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Elara/HGVC

Discussion in 'Hilton Grand Vacations Club / HGVC' started by GeorgeP, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. GeorgeP

    GeorgeP Guest

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    This is just a FYI: i bought a unit off ebay and yesterday i received my welcome packet from Westgate, cOmplete with a westgate member card. Not one mention of HGVC anywhere. I have also been receiving phone calls from westgate asking me to fill out an IRS form. I wonder how, when, or if hgvc is going to be involved.....
     
  2. yumdrey

    yumdrey TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I have talk to an HGVC/Elara rep a few days ago regarding my newly purchased Elara week (got it from an individual owner and used First American title co.).
    She said even if the resort ownership/management transferred to HGVC, it (weeks sold through westgate) has nothing to do with HGVC at all. New owners who bought the weeks from westgate owners are belong to westgate which is part of the contract between westgate and Hilton.
    So if you purchased a traditional deeded planet hollywood (elara) week, you can use it as a westgate week and you can do internal exchange to other westgate resorts, space bank your week, etc...
    It does not get HGVC membership automatically.
    I already own three HGVC weeks and this Elara week doesn't show up on my online account.
    HGVC rep said they (westgate elara weeks) don't have online account and cannot be visible on my existing HGVC accounts.
    I have to call to make a reservation or to space bank the reservation.
    You can use Interval International as an exchange company, as a traditional week system which has nothing to do with HGVC.
     
  3. Ron98GT

    Ron98GT TUG Member

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    Do you think that maybe in the future the PH/Elrara weeks maybe treated as an affiliate? I heard that the PH weeks already sold would not be part of HGVC, only those sold by HGVC?
     
  4. yumdrey

    yumdrey TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I don't think so.
    Those weeks sold by westgate are still belong to westgate (and its internal exchange pool) and HGVC will NOT honor those weeks as an affiliate.
    If I buy additional points/weeks at Elara, maybe I can convert my weeks to HGVC, but without it, I just keep it as a westgate traditional deeded week.

    I already got an e-mail which explained "how I can join HGVC" system.
    It didn't surprise me.
     
  5. Ron98GT

    Ron98GT TUG Member

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    I'm confused :confused: and must be missing something.

    1. You say that original weeks sold by Westgate still belong to Westgate AND HGVC WILL NOT honor them (which is my understanding).

    2. You then state that if you buy additional weeks at Elara, you might be able to convert them OR keep them as part of Westgate. BUT if buying Elara is buying Westgate, you already stated that anything part of Westgate can not and will not be part of HGVC. :confused:

    3. You got an email from HGVC explaining how to join HGVC, but I thought they can not be part of HGVC?

    HELP, I'm confused :confused:

    Anything sold as Elara is already HGVC, isn't it? Or is there an Elara Westgate, Elara, and Elara HGVC?

    When your buying resale, How are you distinguishing between what can be converted to HGVC and what can not?

    Is this (what ever IT is) a cheap way to get into HGVC at Elara without ROFR, if you can get around this HGVC not accepting/honoring Westgate ownership?

    What are the MF's like?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  6. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I think it's pretty simple...

    Any TS's sold by Westgate while it owned+operated Elara = Westgate TS's.
    Even if they are resold to new owners, they are still Westgate TS's.

    Only TS sold by HGVC at Elara are and will ever be HGVC units.
    Will Westgate-Elara owners be allowed to join HGVC, someday?
    GP buyers had a right to join HGVC initially. Extending that was not a stretch.
    Not so with these, so I'd say, it's highly unlikely. IOW, don't hold your breath.

    If you buy from a Westgate owner: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."
    -- from Dante's "Inferno"
     
  7. ricoba

    ricoba TUG Member

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    I don't know nuthin' but where the giant Westgate sign once shone on the top of the now Elara tower, a brand spanking new, Hilton Grand Vacations Club sign shines brightly in the Vegas night.
     
  8. timeos2

    timeos2 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Lifetime Member

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    Yes, existing or resale purchases of Wastegate time at what was the Tower of Terror will remain only in Wastegate hands. They sold the monstrosity of a building (1/3 of what was proposed and therefore lacking many of the amenities and features promised) to HGVC but HGV wants nothing to do with the garish and cheaply outfitted original Wastegate units. For HGVC owners they are finishing the massive amount of units never completed by Wastegate with a more tasteful and quality look.

    Those units that were completed & sold by Wastegate (not all that many as that is what nearly drove Wastegate into bankruptcy) will be managed by Hilton now but they remain the same cheap and gaudy rooms they had from the failed Wastegate days. They will not be upgrading or improving them unless the owners (poor suckers) pay - probably by Special Assessment) to do so. it is unlikely they will do that so those units will just be beat to death bu owners & many renters and fall into disrepair quickly based on what we've seen so far. The Wastegate owners paid incredibly high prices to get little of value (you can't give away weeks there now) and will suffer with inferior units & high fees for as long as they own there.

    It was the Tower of Terror for a reason. Best advice - get out of Wastegate anytime & anyway you can. It is an nightmare to be an owner with them regardless of location. Good luck if you hang on to the ownership through that corrupt group. Watch your wallet.
     
  9. Ron98GT

    Ron98GT TUG Member

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    So, nothing has changed. Westgate owned TS's will not become part of HGVC. The place continues to be the tower of terror. Although, I thought that HGVC was going to renovate before they started selling, but apparently that didn't and will not happen.

    Thanks for the update & clarification.
     
  10. yumdrey

    yumdrey TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    You don't have to be confused.
    As other tuggers mentioned, weeks sold by westgate are still remain as westgate weeks. New owners still can do internal westgate exchange, can reserve home week at 11 months out (while HGVC owners can reserve at 9 months out), can bank week to following year, etc... Also still use Interval International as an exchange co.
    There will be no more bulk banking in Interval though, because Hilton uses RCI as an exchange co.

    However, I had to go through HGVC's ROFR process during transfer.
    I had to get three ROFR - First American Title wanted to go the right way and checked each step due to its unique stage (HGVC bought planet hollywood).
    We applied westgate's ROFR. They transferred us to asset company because westgate no longer manage the property.
    After asset co. wrote a waiver letter, they transferred me to HOA.
    HOA transferred me to HGVC.
    HGVC waived ROFR.
    And finally I could record a new deed after got all three waiver letters.
    It was quite hectic and confused process, but will be more simple in the future.
    HGVC said that my case is the first transfer process they had since they purchased Elara, so there was no established process for closing between westgate and HGVC yet. But they were working on it.
    HGVC waived transfer fee and ROFR fee for me and apologized for that long and hectic process.
    So I believe the future transfer work will be more simple - just need HGVC ROFR waiver or just need westgate waiver, etc...

    If I buy HGVC points at Elara, HGVC will buy my (westgate) deed back and issue (or convert to) a new deed which belongs to HGVC.
    I guess HGVC plan to encourage existing owners to purchase certain amount of HGVC points to convert westgate weeks to HGVC weeks.
    Let's wait and see.
     
  11. yumdrey

    yumdrey TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    another thought.
    Maybe HGVC will exercise ROFR for existing westgate weeks and transfer them to HGVC weeks.
    It will be a cheap way to get those westgate weeks from owners and get more inventory to sell.
    But it's just my guess.
     
  12. Ernie

    Ernie TUG Member

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    Did anyone get a statement from II saying that you have been identified as an Elara owner and get this special offer membership into II for $99 for three years. I got this info but have misplaced it now and dont have the promo code to rejoin II. If anyone got this can you please PM me the promo code? I think it ends soon.
     
  13. susgar

    susgar TUG Member

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    Hi,
    We have a confirmed reservation to Elara next year, through II. Will we be given a westgate unit, or a Hilton unit?
    Thanks, Sue
     
  14. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    I suspect a Westgate unit... HGVC does not participate in II.*
    HGVC has a corportate contract w-RCI. So, II cannot score a HGVC TS.

    *Some independent affiliates (not Elara) allow owners to use both.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  15. jmzf1958

    jmzf1958 TUG Member

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    Ernie, I did get the offer from II. I don't have the promo code, but I know the offer was only good until July 17th. Also, the $99 for three years was for basic membership. The gold was more expensive.
     
  16. dougp26364

    dougp26364 TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    Since HGVC doesn't have ROFR on Westgate controlled weeks, I hardly believe this will ever be an option. It's not a HGVC contract of sale. Westgate holds the ROFR on Westgate sold contracts, not HGVC.

    If Westgate finally goes bankrupt, there's the chance HGVC could buy the Westgate inventory out of bankruptcy.

    IMO, there is always the possiblity that something will happen in the future and HGVC will be able to sell affiliation to Westgate week owners for HGVC but, that's never a guarentee. It might or might not happen. Right now, if you own a Westgate week, you're stuck with a Westgate week. That might never change.
     
  17. RichH

    RichH Guest

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    duplicated posts
     
  18. RichH

    RichH Guest

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    I do agree that westgate weeks remain as westgate, but it can be changed in the future.
    Hilton has first right of refusal for old westgate planet hollywood weeks. At least that's what I heard from Hilton rep.
     
  19. timeos2

    timeos2 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Lifetime Member

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    If they said that it was incorrect. Imagine, a misstatement from a timeshare sales weasel? What are the chances of that?

    HGVC has NO desire to obtain the miserable Wastegate inventory as they are already the owners of over 2/3 of the Tower units & that dwarfs any of their resorts. The last thing they need is more to sell. There is no transfer of ROFR to HGVC that anyone has identified, so if they claim to have one they are using the Wastegate approach of saying they have rights they do not hold. Not like HGVC to do that but what an individual weasel might say is a different story. Anything for a sale you know.

    The Tower of Terror saga is far from over for the poor suckers that bought in as Wastegate. Those will remain under the semi-clutches of Wastegate but not WG management for years to come. Having to deal with that will be an ongoing nightmare that the change to HGVC doesn't help in anyway. As always, best to get out of any relationship with Wastegate at your first possible opportunity. Giving the expensive purchase away looks good next to having to deal with Wastegate going forward.
     
  20. yumdrey

    yumdrey TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I had to get Hilton's ROFR for my recent purchase of old westgate contract (planet hollywood = elara).
    Also I got new owner number which is Hilton's owner number, not westgate owner number.
    I have to call Hilton to reserve a home week, not westgate.
    So it is a very unique situation.
     
  21. Ron98GT

    Ron98GT TUG Member

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    True HGVC (not an Affiliate) properties are owned and operated by HGVC/Hilton. Except for the Flamingo, HGVC exercises ROFR at these properties.

    HGVC affiliate properties are owned by some else, who asks HGVC to manage the property, sell TS's if available, and offer existing owners membership into HGVC. In some cases, like Elara, Hilton also rents out units (check the web site). Affiliates do not exercise/have ROFR.

    LV Tower 52 LLC purchased the PH Westgate TS building and all unsold TS weeks. LV Tower 52 LLC is the owner, not HGVC/Hilton. The new owers contracted wth HGVC/Hilton to sell TS's, provide marketing services, and manage the property: the same as HGVC affiliate properties.

    http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2012/mar/01/former-ph-towers-westgate-timeshare-resort-gets-ne/

    http://www.lvtower52association.com/

    THEREFORE: It is my contention that the Elara is a HGVC affilliate. And being an affiliate, there should be no ROFR.

    I can not see how this is not an affiliate, if HGVC/Hilton does not own it.

    In addition, at any time Westgate managed properties (those previously sold by Westgate, not HGVC Elera) could be managed by HGVC, there by allowing the PH Westgate TS owners to become part of HGVC, IF Westgate (or whom ever currently manages the Westgate sold TS's) asks HGVC to take over management of said property and HGVC accepts. This is no different than what happened at other HGVC affiliate properties. In fact, HGVC may have already taken over control, or could/will. If you go to the LV Tower 52 LLC web site and review the legal Doc's, it looks like LV Tower 52 LLC has taken over management/control of the PH Westgate HOA, which has to be managed by someone (HGVC?).
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
  22. Talent312

    Talent312 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Member

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    The only way that HGVC could ever hold a ROFR over the Westgage TS's is if Westgate assigned their ROFR rights to HGVC. AFAIF, that has not happened and is not likely to happen.

    However, getting a waiver of ROFR from HGVC is prolly good idea. It provides insurance against the possibility that HGVC might one day claim that their deal included such an assignment.

    As to whether Elara is an affiliate, not a true HGVC resort...
    Well, like Bay Club, HGVC is likely to treat it as a part of the family.
     
  23. Ron98GT

    Ron98GT TUG Member

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    The Bay Club remains the ugly step child (figure of speech) of the HGVC Waikoloa Properties, because they don't own it making it an affiliate. But yet it continues to get deeply enjoined with the adjoining Waikoloa Beach Resort. They share the same registration desk and other facilities. When we were at the Bay Club in May, the activities schedule given to us each day included activities at both WBR and BC that we could participate in: deeply enjoined.

    The Elara is a different story. It's down the street from the Flamingo, sitting all by itself. Plus it's providing competition for the LV Strip property sales.

    Haven't heard any official word from HGVC if it's an affiliate or not (they don't own it, they have only been asked to manage it, therefore it should only be an affiliate). I assume they will milk it as long as they can and if they can get someone to pay an ROFR price and boost the value of the property, so be it.

    One possible commonality between the BC and Elara could be the eventual availability of TS exchanges thru RCI. There are always BC units available thru RCI, whereas Kingland and WBC are more readily available booking thru HGVC. They could do the same with Elara, making those units more available thru RCI, making the 3 HGVC properties less available.

    One last note. With the lower MF's her in LV, we sure could use an affiliate. Low affiliate resale purchase price and low MF's = a wiinner for trading.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  24. yumdrey

    yumdrey TUG Review Crew: Veteran TUG Member

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    I don't think old westgate weeks have lower MF.
    I just reserved 2013 week and had to prepay the MF (just like bay club, when you book something for next year, you prepay MF for that year) which was $1070. I own two other HGVC resorts in vegas and MF is around $750 - $850.
    So old PH contract has higher MF than HGVC.
     
  25. timeos2

    timeos2 Tug Review Crew: Rookie TUG Lifetime Member

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    Thay may had SAID you needed a waiver from Hilton but, unless it is in your original contract language which it obviously is not as it was never anticipated, they CANNOT retroactively place that restriction on your ownership. Of course the Wastegate folks would do that to even those resorts / owner they did not have it for but I'm a bit surprised Hilton would try to pull that. In any case it wouldn't apply if it wasn't disclosed at the time of original sale.
     

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