Create a LLC Business to Get Rid of Timeshare?

[DeniseM]

I don't have to provide any examples. I'm not the one dishing out legal advice to the OP. I'm the one saying that the OP should consult with an attorney.

Really? I would not spend $200 of my hard earned dollars to check out a cold-call with an attorney. Common sense says to walk away.

 

[bnoble]

Rather than take the risk of jail and/or other legal expenses for defending a lawsuit, why not just pay a PCC to get rid of your timeshare?

Well, that is one of the alternatives....

 

[timeos2]

Well, that is one of the alternatives....

Except I repeat - what guarantee exists that any PCC will in fact relieve you LEGALLY of any future ownership & obligations despite the thousands of dollars they normally charge suckers owners?

There is none. It is likely MORE money thrown away & you'll still be legally liable for the timeshare you thought was gone. Beware "simple" but costly "solutions".

 

[LannyPC]

The problem with the PCCs (which has been discussed numerous times on these boards) is that they only assume Power of Attorney (POA) and then use that authority to try to sell or give away the timeshare. There have been occasions when the owner, thinking that he paid the PCC to get rid of the timeshare, just about had a heart attack (figuratively speaking) when he saw a maintenance fee bill arrive because the PCC could not find a buyer.

If the PCC can find a way "to get rid of it", then the owner should be able to do the same for a lot less money such as list in on E-Bay for $1, list it here in the Bargains section, etc.

Or, as another option, why not simply write the resort's HOA asking if it will take the timeshare back in lieu of foreclosure? If it will, then great. No harm, no foul. If the resort/HOA says no, then why go through the risk and hassle of setting up an LLC just to force the resort/HOA to take back something it said it would not do in the first place?

Heck, why not even offer the resort/HOA closing costs plus 1 or even 2 years' MFs? That's a lot easier and less risky than setting up a shell LLC?

 

[bnoble]

The problem with the PCCs (which has been discussed numerous times on these boards) is that they only assume Power of Attorney (POA) and then use that authority to try to sell or give away the timeshare.

I have purchased from one that did in fact transfer the deed into their own name some weeks before I purchased it from them.

But, as mentioned above, most of those are LLCs that will just bankrupt holding whatever they can't sell and start over, so it is still six of one.

 

[rrlongwell]

Sorry, Mickey may have been born yesterday, however, it was in the morning and is not interested. You could easily have more time, money, and effort in the project that just selling it, even at a loss (no upfront fees, if fees are paid for a new owner, pay at closing to the actual buyer). I would not even attempt what was suggested. I would suggest you to get advise from an attorney in the state that the timeshare is located (state law differs) if you are thinking of exploring this option.

 

[Carolinian]

Some states have been aggressive at trying to prevent this exact sort of act from happening. Over the past couple of years they have enacted laws to so they can more readily criminally prosecute -- along the lines of deliberate fraud.

Missouri is the latest state that I am aware of that has done this. Of course the burden of proof will be on them....

Now having said that, one has to wonder what kind of lawyer would deliberately recommend committing outright criminal fraud? Tread carefully!

State laws will vary as to the criminal aspects of this, but in virtually all, it is actionable in civil court as a fraudulent conveyance. Do you really want to have to shell out for a lawyer to defend you in such a case? Or to not pay a lawyer and end up with a substantial civil judgment against you, which will kill your credit and may be enforced against you in the state you live by going through a few additional steps?

The Post Card Companies typcially use this scheme of putting unsellable timeshares into LLC's and then cutting them loose. According to a recent article in Timesharing Today some national timeshare management companies are pushing back against the PCC's by announcing that they are going to start suing both the PCC and the member participating in these schemes for fraudulent conveyance.

 

[Carolinian]

I have purchased from one that did in fact transfer the deed into their own name some weeks before I purchased it from them.

But, as mentioned above, most of those are LLCs that will just bankrupt holding whatever they can't sell and start over, so it is still six of one.

Many of them now create seperate LLC's with no assets but the timeshares conveyed into them, instead of taking them into ownership by the PCC itself.

 

[Carolinian]

I am well and long familiar with the process and all of the details of proving a case...

You are of course free to make your own decisions and choices. I will say as my (final) word on this matter that I am personally and directly familiar with several different resorts which have competent, aggressive, semi-retired attorneys (...with considerable free time) as elected BOD members. I will further speculate that you wouldn't have even a prayer of a chance if you actually chose to "go to bat" against them...

Plus there is a huge incentive for an HOA to go to court on a test case. Once they get one scalp on their belt, no other member is going to want to tangle with them. It is well worth the cost to go out and take that key first scalp to send a signal to anyone else thinking about doing the same thing.

 

[ronparise]

The eaiser way to handle this would be to just not pay your maintenance fees.

There will be consequences and you need to be willing to face them, or better yet prepare for them. (collections, judgements, foreclosure etc)

Make yourself judgement proof, or uncollectable and just stop paying.

Im not recommending this but if you are hell-bent on finding some scheme to get rid of your timeshares, put your other assets into a trust or corporation, become self employed to guard against garnishment, keep your cash under your pillow and leave just your timeshares in your personal ownership...then stop paying

I think it will be easier to protect your other assets in a corporation or trust than it will be to isolate the timeshare in its corporation or llc

 

[BocaBum99]

The problem with the PCCs (which has been discussed numerous times on these boards) is that they only assume Power of Attorney (POA) and then use that authority to try to sell or give away the timeshare. There have been occasions when the owner, thinking that he paid the PCC to get rid of the timeshare, just about had a heart attack (figuratively speaking) when he saw a maintenance fee bill arrive because the PCC could not find a buyer.

If the PCC can find a way "to get rid of it", then the owner should be able to do the same for a lot less money such as list in on E-Bay for $1, list it here in the Bargains section, etc.

Or, as another option, why not simply write the resort's HOA asking if it will take the timeshare back in lieu of foreclosure? If it will, then great. No harm, no foul. If the resort/HOA says no, then why go through the risk and hassle of setting up an LLC just to force the resort/HOA to take back something it said it would not do in the first place?

Heck, why not even offer the resort/HOA closing costs plus 1 or even 2 years' MFs? That's a lot easier and less risky than setting up a shell LLC?

So, what does your research indicate the probability is that what you suggest will happen with a PCC? I have done an assessment and have determined that it is less than 1%. Do you have any data that suggests it is higher?

 

[LannyPC]

I have done an assessment and have determined that it is less than 1%.

When you're paying out $2000 and up for a PCC to "get rid of" your timeshare, is anything less than a 100% success rate acceptable? That's a lot of money to pay out for the likelihood that they will find a taker.

Besides, the general recommendation on these boards (each person is free to heed or ignore such a recommendation as he pleases) is not to pay PCCs thousands of dollars to do something that you can do yourself for thousands less.

 

[Beefnot]

even a second year law student would know better then to recommend a course of action that involved such fraud.

If that's the case, then here in California I suppose law degrees are conferred during or shortly after year 1.

 

[ampaholic]

If that's the case, then here in California I suppose law degrees are conferred during or shortly after year 1.

Kinda new to the whole BBS thing are we?

I'll explain it:

When I say something, the whole phrase I say is what I am saying - cutting a part of what I say and quoting it to "change it around" is considered bad form.

I'm not real sure what point you are trying to make - since my original statement had absolutely nothing to do with Cali, or degrees or the conferring of degrees.

My point was about getting a lawyer to put their Bull S%8t opinion in writing - nothing else.

 

[theo]

Calm down there, devil dog...

Kinda new to the whole BBS thing are we?

I'll explain it:

When I say something, the whole phrase I say is what I am saying - cutting a part of what I say and quoting it to "change it around" is considered bad form.

I'm not real sure what point you are trying to make - since my original statement had absolutely nothing to do with Cali, or degrees or the conferring of degrees.

My point was about getting a lawyer to put their Bull S%8t opinion in writing - nothing else.

Poster is perhaps distantly familar with the eternally strange legal world of California, but timeshares (or fundamental civility) --- maybe not so much...

No harm, no foul.

Semper Fi.

 

[ampaholic]

Poster is perhaps distantly familar with the eternally strange legal world of California, but timeshares (or fundamental civility) --- maybe not so much...

No harm, no foul.

Semper Fi.

I'll be nice

Oorah

Sometime I'll tell you about the leave I had over Halloween when we went up to Hollywood Blvd, yeooooww

 

[chapjim]

I am an attorney and I wouldn't do this.

If any of you were a client (and none of you are) and if I were giving you legal advice (which I am not) I would advise you not to do it.

 

[DeniseM]

I am an attorney and I wouldn't do this.

If any of you were a client (and none of you are) and if I were giving you legal advice (which I am not) I would advise you not to do it.

I bet you don't make cold calls to solicit clients, either, do you?

 

[BocaBum99]

When you're paying out $2000 and up for a PCC to "get rid of" your timeshare, is anything less than a 100% success rate acceptable? That's a lot of money to pay out for the likelihood that they will find a taker.

Besides, the general recommendation on these boards (each person is free to heed or ignore such a recommendation as he pleases) is not to pay PCCs thousands of dollars to do something that you can do yourself for thousands less.

You don't have 100% probability that you will have a job tomorrow. That's not a judicious metric for deciding a course of action. If you use that standard, then you are making a lot of bad decisions and likely making decisions based on emotion rather than cold hard facts. The bottom line is that every decision should assess the relevant risks vs. rewards. If you take smart calculated risks, you will be a big winner over time.

 

[BocaBum99]

I am an attorney and I wouldn't do this.

If any of you were a client (and none of you are) and if I were giving you legal advice (which I am not) I would advise you not to do it.

I am not an attorney, but I am an entrepreneur who retains attorney services frequently. I actually reviewed the risks associated with such a venture and determined that it was fraught with downside risks and would be a very bad idea to pursue.

 

[geekette]

What is a "timeshare lawyer?"

Thank you. "Timeshare Lawyer" had my spidey sense all a-twitter!

What, ran out of ambulances? What law school turns out this specialty??

 

[Beefnot]

When I say something, the whole phrase I say is what I am saying - cutting a part of what I say and quoting it to "change it around" is considered bad form.

Ampaholic, it was a JOKE, poking fun that lawyers in California are all shysters. Yes, I'm new to TUG, realizing that many of you guys on here love to find something to get ticked off about. Wow.

 

[ampaholic]

Oh, a JOKE

I would put a smiley on it then:

And FYI, I don't get mad ... seen way too much "real" to get emotional over "words".

 

[Carolinian]

When you're paying out $2000 and up for a PCC to "get rid of" your timeshare, is anything less than a 100% success rate acceptable? That's a lot of money to pay out for the likelihood that they will find a taker.

Besides, the general recommendation on these boards (each person is free to heed or ignore such a recommendation as he pleases) is not to pay PCCs thousands of dollars to do something that you can do yourself for thousands less.

With the invesigations by various state Attorney Generals resulting in PCC's being barred from operating in states and being compelled to reimburse lots of client money, I would suspect that the number is WELL over 1%

 

[TUGBrian]

the "viking ship" scheme is also squarely in the eyes of the state of florida people who are currently going after upfront fee scammers...

id expect since this impacts resorts directly it will eventually get significant attention from ARDA and other lawmakers who answer to lobbyists with deeper pockets than most consumers.