Could resale buyers lose ability to trade in HGVC system?

[Tamaradarann]

Zilch. "How do you know a TS salesman is lying? ...His lips are moving."
First, it would devalue the entire brand. Even retail would take a big hit.
Also, they'd grandfather in current owners and apply it only to new buyers.

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I agree that the chances of HGVC restricting resale owners to their home resort is remote. However, if they did go through with this I would be extremely concerned about the whole system crashing. I almost never go to my home resorts but reserve during the club season as many others. Therefore, restricting my reservations to my home resort would make the ownership useless to me. I would be looking to get rid of my and my families burden of ownership and $6000 a year in maintenance fees. I am sure others would also be doing the same. Do to the great deal of available resales on the market the price would drop and perhaps HGVC timeshares would not be able to be sold but must be given away like many other timeshares are. Since getting rid of these timeshare expenses would become difficult and since usage became less desirable some owners would default on their maintenance and units would fall into foreclosure. Others would hold on to them until they died. As owners pass away many beneficiaries wouldn't want to carry on the ownership and paying maintenance and additional units would fall into foreclosure. The maintenance on units that are owned would go up to compensate for the great deal of foreclosures.

 

[HGVC Lover]

Update...

Some tidbits from the salespeople:

I was offered a credit equivalent to the price the original owner paid if I upgraded my timeshare with HGVC. Of course, I needed to spend at least $25,000 on top of this to get the credit. Apparently it is HGVC policy to offer this to resale owners only once. If that initial offer is refused, subsequent offers will be for a credit equivalent to 35% of the current price of the resale unit.

We go to three or four owner updates a year at different HGVC properties and they ALWAYS offer us the original price the owner paid (bought resale) if we want our points to count for Elite and/or "legitimize" our points. I agree with others....if their lips are moving not all of it maybe true.....

 

[hurnik]

I concur. *COULD* they do this? Sure. *WOULD* they do this? I doubt it.

Plus, I think (given Hilton's IT department) they'd have difficulty for anyone with combined contracts (ie: One bought direct, one bought resale, since it combines the points). When you go to book, I doubt their system could handle which "bucket" it came from.

 

[Talent312]

... given Hilton's IT department...

Aye, there's the rub, matey.
It'd prolly take their geeks 2-3 years just to set up a separate system for resale units.

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[Sandy VDH]

Aye, there's the rub, matey.
It'd prolly take their geeks 2-3 years just to set up a separate system for resale units.

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2-3 years for HGVC IT team seems a bit long, should they decide to go this way. It is an attribute of the contract which provides conditional logic. They would have to add some data, and add additional logic that allow or disallowed certain functionality based on that attribute type.

Now if it were Wyndhams IT department it might be 5 -7+ years for the same content.

 

[david5437]

Wanted to reemphasize the quote below in case it got lost in the shuffle. Bottom line is that I am 100% convinced there are no plans to restrict resale owners from using their points at other HGV properties. The sales director quoted below came across as one of the more senior people there.

"Spoke to another Sales Director and he said he does not see HGVC going the way of other developers and removing rights from resale owners. Rather, they are trying to use their right of ROFR more often and with the economy better think there will be fewer resales."




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[brp]

I concur. *COULD* they do this? Sure. *WOULD* they do this? I doubt it.

Plus, I think (given Hilton's IT department) they'd have difficulty for anyone with combined contracts (ie: One bought direct, one bought resale, since it combines the points). When you go to book, I doubt their system could handle which "bucket" it came from.

If they did something like this, I would expect that they might do something like what DVC did. If you had *any* legitimate points, it legitimized *all* the points. So, there are people who bought resale after the perks were removed and are looking at small Direct add-ons to legitimize all of the points for the perks. This way, the underlying system only has a binary decision - legitimate or not.

We bought resale, but before the restrictions, so those points are both grandfathered into full benefits and would legitimize any future resale acquisitions.

Aye, there's the rub, matey.
It'd prolly take their geeks 2-3 years just to set up a separate system for resale units.

I would have thought that as well before seeing how quickly they drastically improved the new HGVC site following feedback. It happened within about the first week of the quarter in which they said they'd do it. And, at least in my uses, it has done what I've needed flawlessly. So, they seem to have upped their game.

Cheers.

 

[jeepinjoel]

my two cents:
keep what you have. If HGVC changes things in the future, they will always need to try and dig into your wallet then as well.... because NEW resorts continue to be built... and they will need to sell units.

 

[MindReign]

I also heard the same scare tactics. From what I understand, existing owners that bought through resale (me included) could be at risk if they decide to allow property trading only to retail sales deals. It sounds like all they would need to do is remove the $159 club dues from our yearly fees and we would no longer be members of the club, gaining access to swapping. We would then be tied to our home resort.

Like most others, after 1-2 years worth of vacation our resale properties have paid for themselves, so if they pull this, we'll have to dump our properties for $1 just to get out from under them. Possible, but not sure I'm buying into it just yet. Time will tell.

 

[Talent312]

I also heard the same scare tactics... Time will tell.

Again, won't happen for current owners. Imposed on future buyers, maybe, but...
It would harm their sales. Who would buy direct knowing their resale was worthless?
HGVC is foolish in many ways, but IMHO, they're not so stupid as to tarnish their brand that way.

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[Panina]

I also heard the same scare tactics. From what I understand, existing owners that bought through resale (me included) could be at risk if they decide to allow property trading only to retail sales deals. It sounds like all they would need to do is remove the $159 club dues from our yearly fees and we would no longer be members of the club, gaining access to swapping. We would then be tied to our home resort.

Like most others, after 1-2 years worth of vacation our resale properties have paid for themselves, so if they pull this, we'll have to dump our properties for $1 just to get out from under them. Possible, but not sure I'm buying into it just yet. Time will tell.

I'm not buying into it either yet but I would never say never. Other systems have done it where when you buy resale they will let you convert your week if you buy another from them. Ultimately it comes to what will be more profitable to them. That's why I always buy where I would like to go.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It sounds like all they would need to do is remove the $159 club dues from our yearly fees and we would no longer be members of the club, gaining access to swapping. We would then be tied to our home resort.

+1. Trading would be less flexible but resale owners would not stranded; I believe it would be similar to Marriott weeks and Vistana voluntary program owners. You would join RCI and trade your unit with RCI and swap back into HGVC or other resorts. IMHO they legally cannot take the ability to join RCI away from you as this was part of the purchase agreement.

This would be a boon to HGVC competitor (Wyndham/RCI) who would gain access to significantly more high quality HGVC units for Wyndham owners and bolster the quality of the RCI system. Same goes for II/Hyatt/Vistana if you could possibly "free agent" and join there. If they took away the HGVC program internal trading privileges, I wonder if a case could be made that they could not limit commerce for property owners who should have the right to deposit and trade their unit where they please (property owner rights).

In addition, if resale owners are a significant portion of the HGVC system or concentrated in certain resorts such as Lagoon Tower, Kingsland, Bay Club, and Vegas, then this limits available trading units available for retail buyers who will be forced to trade only in the newer, more expensive developer points units such as Grand Islander which will create deep dissatisfaction and tarnish the brand.

I agree with @Talent312 and @Tamaradarann that it would be a deterrent to future retail buyers and may have unintended consequences. Vistana is selling their new resort Nanea as a voluntary resort on the beach in Maui and I've heard that sales are terrible. The economy is great, lots of Asian and American buyers with discretionary cash to pay retail, the location and units are gorgeous, so you have to ask, "Can Vistana charge a premium when buyers know their property does not get trading privileges with little resale value to recoup their initial buy-in, that other Mandatory Vistana owners receive?

It would be a hot legal mess...

 

[Talent312]

Where did the <beating a dead horse> emoticon go?
I think that would'a been useful here.