• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Buyer asks for cashback deal... scam?

booklvr

TUG Member
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
109
Reaction score
1
Points
128
Location
Canada
A potential buyer for our Marriott Newport Coast Villas has asked for a $500 cashback. Is that a real thing?

They are saying they want to pay $500 below our asking price but usually Marriott's ROFR won't go for the price they want. So he suggested we put the sale price what we are originally asking and then have a Cashback to the buyer via their realtor.

Anyone heard of this before?
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,096
Reaction score
7,679
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
this certainly screams of a scam...

why would a seller pay a buyer back whos trying to get past ROFR? that just ends up costing the seller money.
 

vacationhopeful

TUG Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
12,760
Reaction score
1,699
Points
498
Location
Northeast USA
If the buyer wants your Marriott property, tell him to make his BEST offer with NO SIDE payments. You will NOT participate in side deals with his broker or 'fake offer' documents or 'kick back' payments.

And if he wants the property THAT much .... a Marriott deal .... $500 will NOT be a price killer. And the longer this drags out, the harder it will be for the buyer to book and/or use the vacation time.

And if this is a fixed week or you are holding a reservation ... never consider a deal as done til the paperwork is finished AND the check is in YOUR bank account.

ie If this is a summer week and they want usage of a reservation YOU are holding ... the full rental value should be a SIDE check to you, put reservation in their name and they got usage of YOUR week. Not a MF payment ... they are renting the week until from YOU ... as they might not perform as BUYERS for your timeshare.

And the longer this takes to get under agreement and to closed ... deeded to them ... they more likely they will WHINE about reduced usage/booking window.

TIME is of the essence ... esp in using timeshares. And there are slimee people who play the angles .... telling you they will pay the 2017 MFs as you booked a reservation they are VERY HAPPY to be able to use... but NOT close on the deal as they drag out the settlement til after they use YOUR reservation. Legally, NO CLOSING ... no paying MFs ... they get their OFFERED money back.
 
Last edited:

LisaH

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,963
Reaction score
656
Points
598
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
A potential buyer for our Marriott Newport Coast Villas has asked for a $500 cashback. Is that a real thing?

They are saying they want to pay $500 below our asking price but usually Marriott's ROFR won't go for the price they want. So he suggested we put the sale price what we are originally asking and then have a Cashback to the buyer via their realtor.

Anyone heard of this before?
In case this is a legit deal, You can rebate him $500 after the sale has closed and AFTER you clear all the funds.
 

lizap

TUG Member
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
1,949
Reaction score
240
Points
173
Location
Louisiana
This appears to be perfectly legit to me, sort of like the buyer paying full price and the seller paying the closing costs.
 

Kapolei

Guest
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
519
Reaction score
356
Points
123
This appears to be perfectly legit to me, sort of like the buyer paying full price and the seller paying the closing costs.

Except in the original post, the buyer is supposedly saying he wants to circumvent the contractual rights of a third party so he can save a few nickels and dimes.

Way too complicated for me. I simply would never communicate with this kind of person. Problem solved.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,463
Reaction score
7,277
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
Offering credits for certain reno-costs is common in residential sales. But a cash-back simply to inflate the purchase price on paper and avoid ROFR is fraud. To paraphrase President Richard Nixon, "You could do that, but it'd be wrong." Me? I'd say, "No way, Jose."

.
 

Marathoner

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
804
Reaction score
511
Points
203
Location
NYC
The lack of ethics with this approach is covered by others above.

With regards to the fraud aspect, if a cashiers check is used to pay you, then there is probably no fraud potential. However, if a personal check is used, then there is the potential for fraud. A normal personal check can take a week to clear. A personal check for a high amount (e.g. >$10,000) can take a couple weeks for the check to clear. A foreign personal check can take multiple weeks to clear. And typically, your bank will make the funds available from the personal check before the check actually clears at the other party's bank. During this time, the other party can receive and cash your check. A couple weeks later, if the other person's check fails to clear, your bank will take back the funds that they made available into your account and you will be out of your $500 which you had paid them and any bounced check fees. This will also mean that your timeshare will have not sold so you will have to go through the sales process again.

While this outcome is low percentage, there is no reason to even entertain the possibility by doing something which is dishonest in the first place.
 

booklvr

TUG Member
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
109
Reaction score
1
Points
128
Location
Canada
Thanks for the feedback! I am not going ahead on a deal with this guy. I want a straight forward sale and no side deals or complications.

That said, I did have another offer and even had the sales agreement accepted. We were about to go to escrow and the purchaser cancelled. He called the Marriott himself (good thing to do) and they told him how limited he would be with this week. It can't be traded for any other location, just that one. They, of course, didn't tell him about RCI or II. I accepted the cancellation and advised the purchaser to look at this forum and learn more about timeshare resales. I told him not to buy from the Marriott directly... I hope he doesn't.
 

geist1223

TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
5,728
Points
499
Location
Salem Oregon
Resorts Owned
Worldmark 97,000 Credits
DRI Cabo Azul 50,500
Royal Solaris San Jose del Cabo
How is this different then us offering the seller of a House $2,500 over asking price but the seller then pay $2,500 of the Closing costs? This is how we bought our current House.
 

PigsDad

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Messages
10,072
Reaction score
7,077
Points
898
Location
Colorado and SW Florida
Resorts Owned
HGVC Elite: SeaWorld, Surf Club, Charter Club, Valdoro
How is this different then us offering the seller of a House $2,500 over asking price but the seller then pay $2,500 of the Closing costs? This is how we bought our current House.
Two major differences off the top of my head:
  1. In your case, the $2,500 was part of the terms of the purchase contract (I'm assuming). In the OP's case, the purchaser wanted an off-contract side deal.
  2. In your case, there was not an entity that have a legal ROFR. Providing a contract to the timeshare company for their legal ROFR that does not disclose the true net value of the sale could be considered fraud.
Kurt
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
It is standard practice for the buyer to pay the closing cost so anyone assuming the $500 is for the seller to pay the closing cost doesn't make sense on several levels. First, if Marriott exercises ROFR they certainly pay all the closing costs. Second, if the deal is written to kick back closing from the seller to the buyer that only increases the chances of ROFR occurring.

Marriott gets the same terms as the buyer so if the purchase price is increased by $500 but the closing is decreased by $500 the net is the same.

The one thing many brokers are doing is specifying that Marriott pays their commission if ROFR is exercised. Some are specifying the term and some are increasing the purchase price by the commission amount. There is nothing wrong with this. Marriott themselves take 40% commission on a resale but send the seller a tax form equal to the full amount of the proceeds.

There is no legitimate way to manipulate ROFR when the deal is directly from seller to buyer.
 

chapjim

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
6,161
Reaction score
3,804
Points
499
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Resorts Owned
Wyndham VIPF & PresRes, HVC/DRI (Gold), Quarter House (4), Resort on Cocoa Beach (2), HGVC Tuscany Village, HGVC South Beach-McAlpin, HGVC Parc Soleil
The lack of ethics with this approach is covered by others above.

With regards to the fraud aspect, if a cashiers check is used to pay you, then there is probably no fraud potential. However, if a personal check is used, then there is the potential for fraud. A normal personal check can take a week to clear. A personal check for a high amount (e.g. >$10,000) can take a couple weeks for the check to clear. A foreign personal check can take multiple weeks to clear. And typically, your bank will make the funds available from the personal check before the check actually clears at the other party's bank. During this time, the other party can receive and cash your check. A couple weeks later, if the other person's check fails to clear, your bank will take back the funds that they made available into your account and you will be out of your $500 which you had paid them and any bounced check fees. This will also mean that your timeshare will have not sold so you will have to go through the sales process again.

While this outcome is low percentage, there is no reason to even entertain the possibility by doing something which is dishonest in the first place.

You have more faith in cashier's checks (by whatever name) than I do. Phony bank drafts are a scammer's stock in trade.
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
You have more faith in cashier's checks (by whatever name) than I do. Phony bank drafts are a scammer's stock in trade.

This is true. A cashiers check is simply a printed document form. Anyone can create and print a fraudulent cashiers check. You can probably call the issuing bank though and confirm the validity before depositing. I don't think you can do this with a personal check.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,374
Reaction score
18,932
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
This is true. A cashiers check is simply a printed document form. Anyone can create and print a fraudulent cashiers check. You can probably call the issuing bank though and confirm the validity before depositing. I don't think you can do this with a personal check.
Yes, the classic Nigerian bank scam. They send you a "certified" check, deposit it and wire them money back. Six weeks later the bank notifies you that the "certified" check is fake.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,463
Reaction score
7,277
Points
948
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
How is this different then us offering the seller of a House $2,500 over asking price but the seller then pay $2,500 of the Closing costs? This is how we bought our current House.

That's a device for covering closing costs. No deception is involved.

But it has some other issues that a buyer should consider:
(1) If there's a mortgage, did the property appraise for the higher price.
(2) If the increase is financed, additional interest will accrue for years.
(3) The taxes assessed on the transaction will increase slightly.

If I agreed to pay $2500 of the seller's cost, I'd try to do so in cash.
<my 2 cents>
.
 

VegasBella

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
3,307
Reaction score
1,017
Points
398
Location
Vegas
Resorts Owned
Carlsbad Inn
Avenue Plaza
Riviera Beach & Spa
Aquamarine Villas
I think it depends how many other offers you have and whether or not you're willing to sell at the lower price.
I would not think this was a scam of any kind, just an offer that you can take or leave. Like others said, if you take it then I would stick to the deal and make sure to only refund the $500 after the deal closes.*

*Edit to add this should be done through an escrow company rather than having the seller hold the money.
 
Last edited:

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
I think it depends how many other offers you have and whether or not you're willing to sell at the lower price.
I would not think this was a scam of any kind, just an offer that you can take or leave. Like others said, if you take it then I would stick to the deal and make sure to only refund the $500 after the deal closes.

You can't say it's not a scam of any kind when the entire purpose of the agreement is to scam Marriott out of their ROFR.

The deal is not "legal" because one of the terms of the agreement, the $500 cashback, would be not be a written part of the agreement. If it was written then Marriott would benefit from it if they exercised.
 

VegasBella

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
3,307
Reaction score
1,017
Points
398
Location
Vegas
Resorts Owned
Carlsbad Inn
Avenue Plaza
Riviera Beach & Spa
Aquamarine Villas
The deal is not "legal" because one of the terms of the agreement, the $500 cashback, would be not be a written part of the agreement. If it was written then Marriott would benefit from it if they exercised.

Who said it wasn't written in the deal? It could easily be written in. Marriott may still accept it. The recorded sales price for their purposes would still be high enough as to not reduce sales prices in the future so they may well agree to the deal. The way I imagine it would be the sales price is whatever is the amount that will pass ROFR and the seller contributes $500 towards closing costs.

That said, I think they should go through the process of the deal at the terms they actually agree on and see if it passes ROFR first, since the only reason the $500 is at issue is because Marriott wants to artificially inflate the market value. It might just pass, who knows?
 

Saintsfanfl

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
8,844
Reaction score
630
Points
399
Location
Central Florida
Who said it wasn't written in the deal? It could easily be written in. Marriott may still accept it. The recorded sales price for their purposes would still be high enough as to not reduce sales prices in the future so they may well agree to the deal. The way I imagine it would be the sales price is whatever is the amount that will pass ROFR and the seller contributes $500 towards closing costs.

That said, I think they should go through the process of the deal at the terms they actually agree on and see if it passes ROFR first, since the only reason the $500 is at issue is because Marriott wants to artificially inflate the market value. It might just pass, who knows?

Why would the OP question whether it was a scam if it was written into a legitimate real estate contract? That's pretty much the point of this entire thread.
 

silentg

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
6,185
Reaction score
3,260
Points
649
Location
Central Florida
Resorts Owned
Fitzpatrick's Castle Holiday Homes,
Enchanted Isle.
Why is this week Not exchangeable? Is this a place that you go to exclusively?
 

GrayFal

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,051
Reaction score
2,102
Points
699
Location
The Hamptons, NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Bluegreen SVV Morritt's Seaside Former WSJx5
Why is this week Not exchangeable? Is this a place that you go to exclusively?
It would not be part of the Marriott destination club so could not be used to reserve at other MVCI resorts.
You would be able to reserve a week at the resort in your season to use or rent out or exchange in II but Marriott did not tell the buyer that.
 
Top