Buy a timeshare or rent ? How about a LTO ? [MERGED]

[timeos2]

A plan very similar to what you propose has been successfully implemented by some resorts that have significant Association owned inventory in order to obtain fees vs the cost/effort required to sell the time in the original/tradional manner. It take some proper legal set up and some marketing but it can be done even if the original documents don't allow it. Associations have to be proactive and think out of the box. This is especially true in highly seasonal areas which, with few exceptions, is common at most US based resorts. The vast majority of the use time is simply not in demand if the fees and other costs are the same as those paid by the prime time owners.

 

[DeniseM]

Jeff - I am not judging your idea - I'm talking about the POSTING RULES.

This is the problem - TUG has a no advertising policy - you can't launch a commercial venture here.

I can't speak for Brian, but I don't see how it can fly, since it violates the TUG posting rules.

Please put it on hold, until you hear from Brian - he is a very busy man, and TUG has no paid staff - he does it all.

 

[rrlongwell]

Jeff - I am not judging your idea - I'm talking about the POSTING RULES.

This is the problem - TUG has a no advertising policy - you can't launch a commercial venture here.

I can't speak for Brian, but I don't see how it can fly, since it violates the TUG posting rules.

Please put it on hold, until you hear from Brian - he is a very busy man, and TUG has no paid staff - he does it all.

If he stays theory only and does not actually sell or offer to sell or buy or offer to buy anything on his Tugs posts. It looks harmless enough and maybe even educate some of us. I for one could use some additional education on timeshares, as some Tugers have alluded to from time to time. I would think an option would let him continue under that theory until the Owner makes a final determination.

P.S. I am not an Attorney, however, I am not sure why his concept could not work for deeded or Club Properties if the lease were privetly held and if guest passes are required that they be used by the Leasee. I would think 3 to 5 year leases would be more sellable than a 20 year one (less risk of Maintance Fees going up over the term of the lease and hense less potential long term negative to the leasee).

 

[DeniseM]

Since he is promoting a commercial venture, and not just an abstract theory, he is already in violation of the TUG posting rules, and he needs Brian's OK to continue. I'm sorry, but based on past practice, I don't think it will be approved.

Also, duplicate posts are not permitted on TUG - so he should not be promoting it in other threads.

 

[jeffwill]

Denise has informed me, on another thread, that I have departed the theoretical and have now become commercial and in violation of TUG rules.

This has never been my intent. While staying at Wyndham Panama City I comprehended what COULD be done. I could not wait to share my thoughts here on TUG. I did a LOT of research so I could answer your questions, and with you Tuggers, come up with a viable NEW option in TS purchases. I saw an opportunity and was willing to take the risk of beginning this new idea --IF --the people I trust the most thought it would work.

" Build the ballpark, and they will come " Well-- I'm sorry, I've owned businesses for over 40 years and have learned to "Wait for them to come, and THEN build the ballpark". I do NOT HAVE a resort condo I am trying to sell you---- THAT would be commercial. I simply stated that if this theoretical idea was indorsed by enough Tuggers I would step forward and get the ball rolling ---- AND---- I even suggested, in my thread, that when we perfected the concept, I encourage any of you out there to do the same.

Please support me in keeping this "what if " discussion going. Thank You.

 

[DeniseM]

Clarification - Since Jeff wishes to launch a commercial venture, I've asked him to put any further posts on hold, until TUGBrian OK's it.

 

[rrlongwell]

Since he is promoting a commercial venture, and not just an abstract theory, he is already in violation of the TUG posting rules, and he needs Brian's OK to continue. I'm sorry, but based on past practice, I don't think it will be approved.

Also, duplicate posts are not permitted on TUG - so he should not be promoting it in other threads.

Thanks for the quick response. This thread would probably be adaquate until the issue is resolved or forevermore for that matter.

Just saw the other thread. Understand your concern. You might want to merge them and suggest the orginal poster to take the word "my" out of everything and word smith all of the posts to eliminate the implied solications to sell.

 

[TUGBrian]

welcome to talk about any theory for the industry you like...please dont solicit buyers or continue to slant your posts towards "selling" to people here...future posts in that arena will simply be deleted.

 

[jeffwill]

Following my last post, over two hours ago, I reread the posting rules and my thread and concluded Denise was right and was correctly fulfilling her responcibility as a moderator -- sooo-- I cooled my jets. Since this was my first post-- I did make mistakes and for that I apologise. I am not an academic that lectures and teaches, I have always been a business man that puts together the most complete business plan possible before I act. That is why I used myself as an example of an ideal seller. I sounded like a timeshare salesman---- OMG ------ aaarrgg.

Let's start over with the comparison of a LTO with the choices we now have. This is to good an idea to be suppressed by my lack of finese. I have thought long and hard and believe a LTO is far superior to deeded ownership. I believe MF's can be kept much lower if your dealing with an individual instead of a hugh corporate entity. If a LTO contract can be sold back to the owner at any time for the unused value, how can anyone lose ? If you dont like how it works---- leave. Simple.

Time for me to sign off for today.

 

[PigsDad]

I have thought long and hard and believe a LTO is far superior to deeded ownership. I believe MF's can be kept much lower if your dealing with an individual instead of a hugh corporate entity.

What analysis have you done to lead you to believe MFs will be that much lower? The individual owner of the condo would not have the scales of economy on their side, so everything from furniture, repairs, insurance, etc. may very well cost more. Or do you assume that refurbishment wouldn't be done as often?

What kind of "front desk" would there be? It would be impossible to staff even one person on a weekly MF of $600, so obviously you are thinking there would be no staff, no amenities, etc. If that is the case, then I would argue this is an apples to oranges comparison to a timeshare. With a timeshare week, I get a host of services that complement my total experience.

If a LTO contract can be sold back to the owner at any time for the unused value, how can anyone lose ? If you dont like how it works---- leave. Simple.

That only holds true if the owner of the condo can back up that "promise". So basically, the LTO is only as good as the credit worthiness of the condo owner. Seems extremely risky to me.

Just look at what happened to several high-end "vacation clubs" (or whatever they were called) a few years ago. People basically paid for a club membership with the promise of a right to occupy several high-end vacation properties. There were provisions to be able to "sell" your membership back after a certain amount of time if you wanted out. There were no deeded ownerships, just "memberships". However, when the owner of the properties went bankrupt, everyone was left high and dry.

Sound familiar to anyone?

Kurt

 

[jeffwill]

All good questions. As to MF's---- before I gave anyone my money I would want to meet him (or them--good luck). The LTO contract seems to have all senarios covered, but I want to avoid risk. MF's are a big thorn in my TS experience. During our interview, I am reminded that we are talking about ONE unit with all high end everything. He points out that he is not in charge of maintaining a thousand units in ten different resorts. The profits and salaries to stockholders, multable levels of management, service contractors, and highly trained sales staff $$$$, are not a componant of your LTO or MF's. When I am given a schedule of all MF componants with their costs, I am pleased to note there are sufficient dedicated funds for upgrade and LTO buy back. When he tells me it is only good business to make my LTO more valuable, and since keeping the MF's constant is the key componant, I start to feel better.

How about check in ? From my research in Panama City Beach, here is one possibility. There are three check in counters at Emerald Beach Resort, -- Wyndham---Resort Collection Management--- and EMB1 HOA. Yours is the latter, but you can skip the desk entirely. After the free Valet service helps you unload and parks your car, you go directly to your room. Instead of a key card that is issued at the other check in's, your door has a 10 number system. You punch in your code, known only by you & the owner, and you are home. At this point--- the Emerald Beach Resort management company--Wyndham--- is at your service.

These are answers to questions at THIS resort. Other resorts obviously will be different. You will deal with an individual or a company. The LTO idea will evolve as I hope it will. You must evaluate who you are dealing with and make a choice. IMHO, to make any new system work, you must get involved.