• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Attention for Maui SVO owners

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,813
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
David, you are correct but the issue is WHY? and HOW do they decide which resorts are Mandatory or Voluntary?

If someone with time takes a look at the official filing documents from these resorts they will see a discussion of a "Club" that is NOT SVN. I think may open up a path to determining why and how.

In Owners Manual for WKORV and WKORV-N - on the first page of these docs - the following statements are made:

"To widen your vacation opportunities, the Developer has arranged for the Plan to join the Starwood Pacific Vacation Club (the "Club"). The Club is an exchange program designed to link vacation plans together through a central reservation system. This gives the members of each of the linked vacation plans the opportunity to request a reservation in other participating resorts."

Then there is a strange paragraph describing that the Club was designed so that many different resorts can be included in the Club, and that each vacation plan included in the Club is called a "Club Vacation Plan" and each resort is called a "Club Resort". For WKORV it goes on to state (weirdly) that The Plan is the first vacation plan to join the Club, and as a result there are presently no other Club Resorts and that neither Developer nor anyone else can make promises about any future Club resorts. In the WKORV-N docs it states that WKORV is the first vacation plan to join the Club and that WKORV-N is the second.

I say strange because the next paragraph goes on to state - as Duke points out:

"However. the Club provides access to the SVN ("SVN"). SVN is another exchange program. It links the "Club with other vacation clubs and provides exchange services to owners in other vacation plans. This allows you to exchange your use rights for the right to use property in other SVN resorts."

It then goes on to say that SVN currently includes various Westin and Sheraton vacation ownership resorts located in Hawaii, the Bahamas, USVI, Florida, Colorado, California, Arizona, South Carolina, and other locations. Then again with the Developer or anyone can make promises about which vacation plans or clubs that can be in this program. And then says that each resort included in SVN is called an 'SVN Resort'.

So... why is this 'Club' created differently than SVN? What is it's purpose - to link resorts that are developed together like WKORV, VV, and now WSJ? And somehow separate them from SVN?

This doesn't invalidate SVN - it does discuss a vacation 'Club' that is different than SVN. Notice that both Mandatory and Voluntary resorts are listed as part of SVN but does not distinguish the difference. And the Club seems to only link adjacent resorts.

But I still don't understand for SVN - how this gives a hint to why SVO has created SVN Mandatory and Voluntary resorts - nor what they plan to do with them??? In first reading these docs I thought that the Club was SVN, but apparently it is not. plus - there is no separate reservation system for them - nor does SVO tout this.
 
Last edited:

tomandrobin

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
4,115
Reaction score
120
Points
448
Location
Bel Air, Maryland
But I still don't understand for SVN - how this gives a hint to why SVO has created SVN Mandatory and Voluntary resorts - nor what they plan to do with them??? In first reading these docs I thought that the Club was SVN, but apparently it is not. plus - there is no separate reservation system for them - nor does SVO tout this.

Maybe when the next Starwood University" comes around, a tugger needs to go and ask the hard questions.
 

skim118

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
315
Reaction score
1
Points
378
Location
SF Bay area
Starwood Pacific Vacation Club (the "Club")

When we bought WKORV in Feb 2002, I asked about this Pacific club and I was told by our salesman(who is now a SVO bigwig), that all the Hawaiian resorts would be linked together and they were exploring a 10-month preference period for intra-Pacific club exchanges. SVO clearly abandoned that plan, but originally they alluded to this concept.
 

duke

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
734
Reaction score
138
Points
403
Location
California
Starwood Vacation Club d/b/a Sheraton Vacation Club

Here is a summary (I've only taken parts) of the description in the Purchase Agreement and the California Dept of Real Estate Disclosure Docs. This is current as of 11-17-06 (per the docs).


The name of the multisite vacation ownership plan is the Starwood Vacation Club doing business as the Sheraton Club. The Club also does business as the Westin Vacation Club and the Atlantis Vacation Club......

Pursuant to the Club Resort Affiliation Agreement......Membership in the CLUB is an inseparable part of each Unit Week. Therefore, when a Purchaser acquires a Unit Week, the Purchaser automatically becomes a Club member.

The Club is affiliated with SVN. Not all SVN Resorts are Club Resorts. At Club Resorts all owners are required to be Club members. Only Club Resorts are component sites of the Club multisite vacation plan under Florida law.

Other Club Resorts: Currently VV - Bella, VV - Key West, Harborside, Virgin Grand Villas St. John are the ONLY Club Resorts.




I think this has something to do with what MANDATORY means!
Duke
 
Last edited:

tomandrobin

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Messages
4,115
Reaction score
120
Points
448
Location
Bel Air, Maryland
This part of a document (Starwood Vacation Exchange Company Disclosure) from the Mystarcentral website for Kierland. The PDF is 24 pages long and defines Kierland as a "Club" resort with enrollment in SVN as being automatic. SVN membership terminates if the club member's home resort ceases to be an SVN resort.

It does define non-club resorts is not an automatic member of SVN and can only use SVN if enrolled by an SVN operator. Further down in the paragragh for non-club resorts it does states that the "such SVN membership is not transferable"

It defines Kierland to be a mandatory resort. I would like to post more, but the file is too big.

My guess is if you go to your my central site, the disclosure for your resort will be there also. You need to login, go to reservations...on the right hand side under "Did you know" is the disclosure.
 

Attachments

  • Doc2.doc
    64 KB · Views: 32
Last edited:

nell

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
254
Reaction score
2
Points
16
Location
Katy, TX
This $599 fee does NOT exist. There is no fee for requalifing a resale. Also, there is no way to requalify a resale by just paying a fee.

The $599 DID exist (as I stated) for certain Original owners at certain resorts under certain circumstances. I know that you can not requalify a resale by just paying a fee. What I was referring to was if it were ever allowed it might be because it was someone who already had above 5 Star elite status from developer purchases. I would think Starwood MIGHT consider this for a "5* Platinum status for life" owner.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,813
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
This part of a document (Starwood Vacation Exchange Company Disclosure) from the Mystarcentral website for Kierland. The PDF is 24 pages long and defines Kierland as a "Club" resort with enrollment in SVN as being automatic. SVN membership terminates if the club member's home resort ceases to be an SVN resort.

It does define non-club resorts is not an automatic member of SVN and can only use SVN if enrolled by an SVN operator. Further down in the paragragh for non-club resorts it does states that the "such SVN membership is not transferable"

It defines Kierland to be a mandatory resort. I would like to post more, but the file is too big.

My guess is if you go to your my central site, the disclosure for your resort will be there also. You need to login, go to reservations...on the right hand side under "Did you know" is the disclosure.

The text in the attachment - that Club and SVN membership is transferred upon sale is similar to WKORV and WKORV-N docs. Someone posted text from WPORV (Princeville) docs that stated the this is not transferred - leading us to believe that WPORV is a Voluntary resort.

I did specifically ask a TS salesman this question - about Mandatory and Voluntary catagories at Starwood resorts, and their implications - and he stated that all future developments will be Mandatory to better control inventory and SVN system usage. He was aware of the differences and what distinguished them - and admited that most SVO salespeople did not. HOWEVER - he stated that WPORV is Mandatory. :doh: Goes to show that even within the Starwood system (at least at the lower levels) that the reasons behind the different classifications are unknown, and it is not something that the TS salespeople are not even clear about.
 

Negma

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
635
Reaction score
136
Points
403
Location
California
Resorts Owned
DVC Boardwalk WKV WMH WKORVN SVR Harborside 5* and spoiled
The $599 DID exist (as I stated) for certain Original owners at certain resorts under certain circumstances. I know that you can not requalify a resale by just paying a fee. What I was referring to was if it were ever allowed it might be because it was someone who already had above 5 Star elite status from developer purchases. I would think Starwood MIGHT consider this for a "5* Platinum status for life" owner.

Actually you can requalify a purchse with this fee. I just talked to a person at the Starwood sales office. If you buy a resale from them (starwoode)-YOU have to bring it up- once you buy Starwood's resale, then you can requalify it. I was under the impression if you are already an owner (prior developer purchased property) they would do this for you, but if you were not an owner they would not.

We are just a little short of 5* and we have been playing around with what is the best way to do this or if we even want to spend the money to get there (any opinion of those of you 5* is always appreciated). I have read the other threads on this issue with great interest.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,813
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
Actually you can requalify a purchse with this fee. I just talked to a person at the Starwood sales office. If you buy a resale from them (starwoode)-YOU have to bring it up- once you buy Starwood's resale, then you can requalify it. I was under the impression if you are already an owner (prior developer purchased property) they would do this for you, but if you were not an owner they would not.

We are just a little short of 5* and we have been playing around with what is the best way to do this or if we even want to spend the money to get there (any opinion of those of you 5* is always appreciated). I have read the other threads on this issue with great interest.

As you are probably aware - that for the first 2000 5* Elites - that they will give you Platinum Elite status. If I wias that close to 5* status - I would consider it. However, since we bought all of ours resale - not going to buy 2-3 Developer weeks just to convert our resale weeks.
 

duke

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
734
Reaction score
138
Points
403
Location
California
Actually you can requalify a purchse with this fee. I just talked to a person at the Starwood sales office. If you buy a resale from them (starwoode)-YOU have to bring it up- once you buy Starwood's resale, then you can requalify it. I was under the impression if you are already an owner (prior developer purchased property) they would do this for you, but if you were not an owner they would not.


First, what Starwood Sales office are you referring to?

Second, are you saying that if you purchase a Resale directly from Starwood then they will charge you $599 to be in SVN?
 

Denise L

Tug Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
3,610
Reaction score
372
Points
468
Location
West Coast
Resorts Owned
Starwood/Vistana, Disney, Hyatt, HGVC
I was not aware that Starwood "sold" resales. From what I know, they sell "developer" intervals at developer prices. Even if they exercised ROFR and bought an interval back, they would sell it for full price.
 

duke

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
734
Reaction score
138
Points
403
Location
California
I was not aware that Starwood "sold" resales. From what I know, they sell "developer" intervals at developer prices. Even if they exercised ROFR and bought an interval back, they would sell it for full price.

Exactly my point!
 

nell

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
254
Reaction score
2
Points
16
Location
Katy, TX
When we were in the sales presentation my DH asked about if there was a tool where SVO facilitated resales and rentals. Salesman told us they did and would receive a percentage. I didn't pay much attention to that part because I was not interested in reselling or renting, but the name Advantage kept sticking with me. After a search I came up with this:

Advantage Vacation's Westin Timeshare resales is part of the Starwood Vacation properties family and come with many of the benefits of Starwood vacation club ownership and trade value. With a luxurious Westin Timeshare you will have tremendous freedom and choices in how to vacation.

I am not representing that I know all the particulars on this, just putting out there what was told to us and what I found.:D If this is true, maybe this is why Starwood would not enforce ROFR strictly, they refer to Advantage and get a percentage (probably large) without having to do the work.
 
Last edited:

Negma

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
635
Reaction score
136
Points
403
Location
California
Resorts Owned
DVC Boardwalk WKV WMH WKORVN SVR Harborside 5* and spoiled
The starwood office number is:1-800-869-1166 . They have resales that theyrepresent for others. For us to get to Elite 5* need 123K options (not sure we will do, but worth looking into). I called the above number and she told me we could buy a 3 BR at the villages for 35Kish, or Hawaii for 45kish and that would get us there.

I then asked her about resales, she asked where i had heard about requalifying and I told her I had been researching the issue (why tell her about TUG?). She told me that since I brought it up they do sell resales. They represent sellers (it sounds like Vistana Resort only). They have 2br EY units for 13K or make an offer. she would then go to the sellers and see what they might agree to. For us to make the deal we would need two of these for the goal of 123K options(67.5x2) for 5 star.
Once the deal is done, for the $599 they would requalify the sale to get us to 5*.
How much of this is because we are at 4* I do not know, but we are looking at all of our choices, this seems to be a reasonable way to get there.
 

duke

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
734
Reaction score
138
Points
403
Location
California
For us to get to Elite 5* need 123K options (not sure we will do, but worth looking into). I called the above number and she told me we could buy a 3 BR at the villages for 35Kish, or Hawaii for 45kish and that would get us there.

Once the deal is done, for the $599 they would requalify the sale to get us to 5*.

How much of this is because we are at 4* I do not know, but we are looking at all of our choices, this seems to be a reasonable way to get there.

Negma:

I sent you a PM with strategy and exact steps as posted by Nodge to get to 5* at lowest cost. I copied Nodge's post from other thread.

PS: From experience I can assure you that there is NO $599 fee to requalify using this approach.

Duke
 

dagger1

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
840
Points
223
Location
Houston
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Wild Oak Ranch, Hyatt Main Street Station, Hyatt Ka’anapali; Marriott Ko’Olina, Marriott Waiohai; Marriott Maui Ocean Club; Wyndham CWA points, Worldmark credits.
I'm sorry I couldn't resist. Most people on this board will tell you to take the time to read some past threads and become very informed before you buy. Starwood can be a little complex at first since they have mandatory (staroptions stay with the resort and you can still use the SVN internal exchange)and voluntary resorts(on a resale you can only use your home resort or deposit with an external exchange). Word is that WKORP is a voluntary resort. These usually do not hold their resale value as much as a mandatory resort. WKORV Ocean Front can be bought on the resale market for low 50's now. They were in the 70's a couple of years ago. Most ts sales people will tell you it's a real estate investment. The best description I've heard is it's more like buying a car. In saying that, I love our unit at WKORV even though we bought from the developer and enjoy our vacations a lot. Knowing what I now know though I would have bought resale. WKORP will probably not have resales for another year or two. Again my advice would be to take time to learn as much as you can about the system before you purchase. Hope this reply was a little more helpful. :D


What are 2/2 WKORV(N) Annuals going for now in 2017? I assume pricing depends on whether OF, OV, and Island?
 

LisaRex

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
6,792
Reaction score
317
Points
518
Location
'burbs of Cincinnati, OH
Resorts Owned
Used to own: WKORV-N; SVV - Bella
What are 2/2 WKORV(N) Annuals going for now in 2017? I assume pricing depends on whether OF, OV, and Island?

I haven't really paid too close attention, but I'd guess around $8-10k (IV), $17-20k (OV), and 25-28 (OF), give or take a few thousand and passing ROFR. A few thousand more for OF WKORV. A few thousand less for IV at WKORV.
 

DavidnRobin

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
11,813
Reaction score
2,224
Points
698
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Resorts Owned
WKORV OFD (Maui)
WPORV (Kauai)
WSJ-VGV (St. John)
WKV (Scottsdale)
NOTE : This thread is/was 10 years old.

Although interesting look back though. The more things change...

Anyway @dagger1... Of course it depends on view and resort.
Market prices are probably best estimated using RedWeek due to the shear numbers - and consider on high side - throw away the over-priced ones. The Market rate should hover around the current ROFR which fluctuates based on economic conditions.
 
Top