Attention for Maui SVO owners

[kippax]

I'm a dialogue with the SVO rep in Kauai and in one his recent e-mails he states;

"Please remember that the owners in Maui Phase I have seen their values
go up 1 to 2 times in 5 years. Not a bad thing..."

I'd just be interested to know if this is the case for Maui owners on this board? I'm tentatively considering the new Westin development on Kauai but question the validity of this statement

Thanks

 

[nell]

:hysterical: :rofl:

Jonelle

Was he talking the price of the unit or the MF?

 

[nell]

I'm sorry I couldn't resist. Most people on this board will tell you to take the time to read some past threads and become very informed before you buy. Starwood can be a little complex at first since they have mandatory (staroptions stay with the resort and you can still use the SVN internal exchange)and voluntary resorts(on a resale you can only use your home resort or deposit with an external exchange). Word is that WKORP is a voluntary resort. These usually do not hold their resale value as much as a mandatory resort. WKORV Ocean Front can be bought on the resale market for low 50's now. They were in the 70's a couple of years ago. Most ts sales people will tell you it's a real estate investment. The best description I've heard is it's more like buying a car. In saying that, I love our unit at WKORV even though we bought from the developer and enjoy our vacations a lot. Knowing what I now know though I would have bought resale. WKORP will probably not have resales for another year or two. Again my advice would be to take time to learn as much as you can about the system before you purchase. Hope this reply was a little more helpful.

 

[Henry M.]

Well, he is technically correct, but it is just sales talk. The price of a new unit, bought from Starwood, went up over time. They had their usual price hikes. Their sales people always claimed a hike was imminent, but they only had a few increases (but more than two). The ocean view units started selling in the high $30K's and I know the last pricing for them was almost $49K, before selling out. I think they've taken some trade-ins towards upgrades and last summer they had a few of these OV trades for $49K+.

I suppose the resale value might have increased over this time too, but it is way below the original purchase price. I just saw an OV unit advertised on redweek.com for $30K.

 

[Denise L]

I'm a dialogue with the SVO rep in Kauai and in one his recent e-mails he states;

"Please remember that the owners in Maui Phase I have seen their values
go up 1 to 2 times in 5 years. Not a bad thing..."

I'd just be interested to know if this is the case for Maui owners on this board? I'm tentatively considering the new Westin development on Kauai but question the validity of this statement

Thanks

Hi Andrew,

I take it you've completed your rescission in time and the rep is now trying to woo you back ?

I'm wondering if you are really still considering buying since your previous posts told us that you were rescinding because you live so far away, will only go every 4th year, and don't see the value.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38065

At least that's what your other thread was about. Perhaps you've had a change of heart ?

 

[DeniseM]

I'm a dialogue with the SVO rep in Kauai and in one his recent e-mails he states;

"Please remember that the owners in Maui Phase I have seen their values
go up 1 to 2 times in 5 years. Not a bad thing..."

I'd just be interested to know if this is the case for Maui owners on this board? I'm tentatively considering the new Westin development on Kauai but question the validity of this statement

Thanks

That's a good one....
We paid $44K for our 2 bdm. in phase 1 and it's selling for $31K on the resale Mkt. now. We love the resort, but I would never buy from the developer again - there are just too many resale bargains out there. My advice to you is to be patient, and really investigate the resale Mkt. and Starwood before you make any decisions.

 

[DavidnRobin]

When we were at the owners update at WKORV in November - the TS salesperson said that our OF Deluxe was going in the high 80s if bought from SVO. Well, first off, they are not selling them - secondly, if true then why wouldn't they just excercise their ROFR in the low 50s and turn around and resale in the high 80s (like they claim) for a quick profit???

When we bought (and rescinded) WKORV-N - the price was ~74K - and he claimed they were going up the next month - NOT! - went down to ~68K. (whew - dodge a bullet there...)

The seller we bought our WKORV OF unit from paid over 10K more from SVO than we bought from him.

According to them - their prices have gone up - because they set the price. The fact is that the resale prices are lower.

From what I understand - WKORV OF units have kept their resale value from the pre-construction prices, but all of the other units have not.

At WSJ - buyers that owned there before SVO have actually since a slight increase in resale value - but this is not the norm.

At WKV - the seller that sold us our 1Bd unit lost about 1/3 what they paid.

 

[duke]

I'm a dialogue with the SVO rep in Kauai and in one his recent e-mails he states;

"Please remember that the owners in Maui Phase I have seen their values
go up 1 to 2 times in 5 years. Not a bad thing..."

The salesperson is NOT refering to resales.

He is refering to to SVO pricing. The current price of WKORV-N OV is $57,900. Clearly that is an increase over the WKORV OV initial pricing in the low $30's.

The salesperson probably is not talking about a purchase as an investment that will increase in value. He is clearly stating that "If you don't buy early from SVO than it will cost you more to buy later from SVO".

I have no doubt that SVO pricing on Princeville will increase in 2 years when they open.

 

[taffy19]

What is the purpose of having mandatory or non-mandatory resorts? It doesn't seem to have to do with location.

 

[DavidnRobin]

What is the purpose of having mandatory or non-mandatory resorts? I doesn't seem to have to do with location.

Whoever can get SVO to give a truthful answer to that question shoud get some kind of prize.

 

[Denise L]

I used to think that having mandatory resorts would mean that those locations would always be available for internal SVN exchanges, since the owners there would have to participate. So I figured that Starwood would choose certain resorts in high demand areas and make sure that those would always be available. Otherwise, how could they continue to sell new properties if they were forced to say, "The probability of exchanging into [insert a voluntary resort], is low because the owners there aren't obligated to be in SVN," etc.

But if voluntary means that NO ONE who owns there has to participate and pay the SVN fees, then it could potentially mean that we could never internally exchange into that property. That doesn't sound good to me. If every original owner opted out or sold their interval, that would leave very few villas for internal exchange. Kauai, Cancun, Aruba, etc. would all be extremely difficult trades.

Does anyone have stats on what percentage of owners sell their intervals?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Sorry - deleted because a duplicate post

 

[DavidnRobin]

From the SVN Club documents -
For the Owners at Voluntary Resorts it is voluntary to be in the SVN Club, and SVN Club membership is not transferrable if sold.
For the Owners at Mandatory Resorts it is mandatory to be in the SVN Club (and the SVN fee must be paid), and SVN Club membership is transferred if sold, and the Owner cannot opt out.

Now why some resorts are and some aren't...?

 

[taffy19]

Sorry - deleted because a duplicate post

Are these fees high?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Are these fees high?

$99 for the first week, $30 for the 2nd - and 3 or more - no extra cost.
Taxes apply in Hawaii for some reason.

I have read that resale owners of Voluntary can pay a premium to get in (~$600?) - I think original owners can just pay the standard SVN fee (but not sure - someone else should chime in)

 

[taffy19]

From the SVN Club documents -
For the Owners at Voluntary Resorts it is voluntary to be in the SVN Club, and SVN Club membership is not transferrable if sold.
For the Owners at Mandatory Resorts it is mandatory to be in the SVN Club (and the SVN fee must be paid), and SVN Club membership is transferred if sold, and the Owner cannot opt out.

Now why some resorts are and some aren't...?

Are these fees high? TIA.

Sorry about the double post because all of the sudden, I didn't see it anymore. Thank you. That is not expensive.

 

[duke]

What is the purpose of having mandatory or non-mandatory resorts? It doesn't seem to have to do with location.

This is an interesting question and I think the answer is in the ownership docs.

For example: I just read the filing with the California Department of Real Estate for the sale of VV-Key West. It clearly states that the following locations are part of an EXCHANGE CLUB (NOT SVN). These are Harborside, St John, VV-Bella, VV-Key West. This is a filed official document and therefore this is a contract. It says that these locations WILL be able to exchange. They then say that, for the time being, they will use SVN for administering the exchange.

So, for all SVO locations except Kierland and WKORV this Mandatory issue is part of a special exchange club - - NOT SVN based.

Anyone read their docs?

 

[nell]

This is an interesting question and I think the answer is in the ownership docs.

For example: I just read the filing with the California Department of Real Estate for the sale of VV-Key West. It clearly states that the following locations are part of an EXCHANGE CLUB (NOT SVN). These are Harborside, St John, VV-Bella, VV-Key West. This is a filed official document and therefore this is a contract. It says that these locations WILL be able to exchange. They then say that, for the time being, they will use SVN for administering the exchange.

So, for all SVO locations except Kierland and WKORV this Mandatory issue is part of a special exchange club - - NOT SVN based.

Anyone read their docs?

Couldn't this exchange club also be referring to II?

 

[nell]

$99 for the first week, $30 for the 2nd - and 3 or more - no extra cost.
Taxes apply in Hawaii for some reason.

I have read that resale owners of Voluntary can pay a premium to get in (~$600?) - I think original owners can just pay the standard SVN fee (but not sure - someone else should chime in)

The only time I had heard of this being allowed was when original owners purchased before Starwood took over the resort. They were offered the option of joining SVO for $600. I don't know for sure but I've read about some resale (voluntary resorts) owners on this board who have inquired about this and were turned down. If some resales have been allowed maybe it would have something to do with elite status. It would be interesting to know if anyone here has been allowed to do this.

 

[Ken555]

What is the purpose of having mandatory or non-mandatory resorts? It doesn't seem to have to do with location.

I was told at one point - I think I may have seen it on this board - that Kierland, for instance, is a mandatory resort because Arizona would not permit a "reduction of value" (or some such legal term) during a resale. In other words, all inherent benefits of ownership are transferrable to a resale purchaser. Obviously, this does not include conversion to StarPoints, but that might be considered a separate agreement and option between StarPoints and SVN so wouldn't be included in a deed, etc.

I'm not sure why there is a distinction at other locations, though. Perhaps mandatory was an original concept which SVN doesn't subscribe to any longer? If all new resorts had voluntary membership, then the resale market for them would be different...

Does this make sense to anyone? It is still a bit confusing to me...

 

[duke]

Couldn't this exchange club also be referring to II?

No The exchange club is NOT II it is a seperate group. I dont have the docs with me but someone with the VV - Key west can look.

 

[duke]

The only time I had heard of this being allowed was when original owners purchased before Starwood took over the resort. They were offered the option of joining SVO for $600. I don't know for sure but I've read about some resale (voluntary resorts) owners on this board who have inquired about this and were turned down. If some resales have been allowed maybe it would have something to do with elite status. It would be interesting to know if anyone here has been allowed to do this.

This $599 fee does NOT exist. There is no fee for requalifing a resale. Also, there is no way to requalify a resale by just paying a fee.

 

[Ken555]

This $599 fee does NOT exist. There is no fee for requalifing a resale. Also, there is no way to requalify a resale by just paying a fee.

The original message on this topic may be because of some confusion over entering SVN for resorts like Sheraton Desert Oasis, which I've heard did have a $600 or so fee for buying into SVN for existing owners...prior to Starwood buying the resort. These were special situations, from what I gather...though I thought someone on this board was able to do this last year using a resale week of the Desert Oasis 1-52 deeds...

 

[DavidnRobin]

No The exchange club is NOT II it is a seperate group. I dont have the docs with me but someone with the VV - Key west can look.

Not sure what the outcome is intended here - but (as you know) the existing Mandatory resorts include more than VV, Harborside, and St John - but also include WKORV, WKORV-N, and WKV - the 'SVN Club' are these resorts and are stated as such in the SVN Club documentation that I have read.

 

[duke]

Not sure what the outcome is intended here - but (as you know) the existing Mandatory resorts include more than VV, Harborside, and St John - but also include WKORV, WKORV-N, and WKV - the 'SVN Club' are these resorts and are stated as such in the SVN Club documentation that I have read.

David, you are correct but the issue is WHY? and HOW do they decide which resorts are Mandatory or Voluntary?

If someone with time takes a look at the official filing documents from these resorts they will see a discussion of a "Club" that is NOT SVN. I think may open up a path to determining why and how.