[ 2012 ] Optimal Owner Care

[Beefnot]

Actually answering the very few specific questions posed would have taken less time, fewer words and less effort than defending declining to do so.

Just sayin'...

...So you can then attack from another angle. I think her response was more appropriate, because you and RX8 are not interested in the prospect of them being legit unless you get some independent corroboration elsewhere. Why would she be interested in engaging in an unending do loop of debate with you?

 

[WEN-D]

I know I said I wouldn't post again but since the questions are so easy to answer as stated:

We get the owners information because it becomes public information when their deed is filed. Completely legal.

We never claim to be endorsed by Wyndham. Actually, that would work against us often times since many owners are very unimpressed with what was promised and then delivered by Wyndham and/or Wyndham's Extra Holidays rental program.

Beefnot...I think you are probably right and am sure my answers will only lead to another attack...

 

[theo]

Howzzat???

...So you can then attack from another angle. I think her response was more appropriate, because you and RX8 are not interested in the prospect of them being legit unless you get some independent corroboration elsewhere. Why would she be interested in engaging in an unending do loop of debate with you?

Attack? Say what, now? I have no interest whatsoever in "attacking" or engaging in any "debate" or other discussion with WEN-D. As a recently-former Wyndham owner, I simply thought that the very clear and specific questions posed by LannyPC above were excellent and relevant. As clearly stated, I looked forward to seeing the answers (even though I didn't actually ask those questions in the first place).

As a relevant aside, it was my belief and understanding (perhaps mistaken) that the renting out of Wyndham points to others has actually been overtly prohibited (by anyone other than Wyndham itself) since around March 19, 2009. Accordingly, I found the whole premise of the "business model" to be one of interest and I offer no apology for merely being interested in the subject at hand.

Frankly "Beefnot", I believe you possess little actual knowledge but just seek to foment or manufacture conflict and /or argument where none is really necessary or appropriate, whereas others were (and are) merely seeking factual answers to legitimate and appropriate questions regarding the topic at hand.

 

[WEN-D]

Rental is not prohibited...transferring of points is prohibited...our clients do not need to transfer their points to us in order for us to be able to help them do rentals

 

[Beefnot]

Attack? Say what, now? I have no interest whatsoever in "attacking" or engaging in any "debate" or other discussion with WEN-D. As a recently-former Wyndham owner, I simply thought that the very clear and specific questions posed by LannyPC above were excellent and relevant. As clearly stated, I looked forward to seeing the answers (even though I didn't actually ask those questions in the first place).

As a relevant aside, it was my belief and understanding (perhaps mistaken) that the renting out of Wyndham points to others has actually been overtly prohibited (by anyone other than Wyndham itself) since around March 19, 2009. Accordingly, I found the whole premise of the "business model" to be one of interest and I offer no apology for merely being interested in the subject at hand.

Frankly "Beefnot", I believe you possess little actual knowledge but just seek to foment or manufacture conflict and /or argument where none is really necessary or appropriate, whereas others were (and are) merely seeking factual answers to legitimate and appropriate questions regarding the topic at hand.

I may possess little actual knowledge if defined as facts, but possess an abundance of wisdom and logic. I have no objection to you and RX8 being skeptical, but wish you'd have some intellectual integrity to acknowledge that the tone to your questioning clearly demonstrates that there is little that could be said to persuade you. You demand answers so that you can then pose more questions or frontal assaults. Be real.

 

[Beefnot]

But really, not so much you on this thread Theo, but RX8 and LannyPC.

 

[presley]

However, as a final post, I am willing to offer some direct proof to Beefnot, theo, lannypc, rrlongwell, Presley, rent_share, fractionalTraveler, jazzman, bruce727. If any of you own a Wyndham timeshare and have extra points that you are willing to rent out, please call and ask for me, Wendy, at 888-684-7191 x269 and I will be happy to rent for any one (or all) of you as direct proof. Bottom line, ALL talk is cheap and the reality is I can back up what I claim with action. So hopefully one or all of you will be willing to take me up on my offer and then come post in this forum about your experience afterwards.

Thanks for the offer. I don't own Wyndham, otherwise I'd be glad to give you a try. Honestly, I didn't think it was a scam. I read it as a shill post.

 

[Beefnot]

Thanks for the offer. I don't own Wyndham, otherwise I'd be glad to give you a try. Honestly, I didn't think it was a scam. I read it as a shill post.

Right, was my guess too.

 

[LannyPC]

But really, not so much you on this thread Theo, but RX8 and LannyPC.

Actually, I was not accusing OOC of not being legit or doing anything illegal. It's just that their operations, as described be their two employees posting here, raised some questions because their methods seemed eerily similar to what scammers do.

The main one that I personally found disturbing was how they got the owners' detailed information including how the owners are using (and not using) their points. I am no expert in Public Records but I am just assuming (I could be wrong) that an owner's points portfolio and how he is/isn't using them are not disclosed in Public Records.

It's been discussed on these boards a few times before about where the upfront fee scammers get detailed owners' information. One theory out there is, of course, getting the info from Public Records. The question that that brings up though is How do these scammers know certain information about the owners' that is not disclosed in Public Records.

This leads to the second theory which, according to a news report that was posted in these forums a few months back, assumes that someone on the inside (perhaps a disgruntled employee or ex-employee of the resort or timeshare company) is selling insider information on the side.

 

[Beefnot]

Actually, I was not accusing OOC of not being legit or doing anything illegal. It's just that their operations, as described be their two employees posting here, raised some questions because their methods seemed eerily similar to what scammers do.

The main one that I personally found disturbing was how they got the owners' detailed information including how the owners are using (and not using) their points. I am no expert in Public Records but I am just assuming (I could be wrong) that an owner's points portfolio and how he is/isn't using them are not disclosed in Public Records.

It's been discussed on these boards a few times before about where the upfront fee scammers get detailed owners' information. One theory out there is, of course, getting the info from Public Records. The question that that brings up though is How do these scammers know certain information about the owners' that is not disclosed in Public Records.

This leads to the second theory which, according to a news report that was posted in these forums a few months back, assumes that someone on the inside (perhaps a disgruntled employee or ex-employee of the resort or timeshare company) is selling insider information on the side.

If what you describe was happening, that they are illictly or unethically obtaining details about an owner's TS, then I would wholeheartedly concur with you. It would not even matter the 'value' of the service being provided. In that scenario, while it may not technically be a scam in that they are not stealing people's money, it would still be a practice that should not be tolerated.

 

[WEN-D]

LannyPC, I am not sure where you heard that we have detailed information about how people are using or not using their points? This is simply not the case. We only obtain that information if the owner we contact wishes to divulge it to us. In reality, the contact info we have is very minimal.

Also fyi, Wyndham (and all other timeshare developers for that matter) are well aware of the multiple sources that openly provide their owners contact info and have never done anything to stop it. You can rest assured that if they had a major problem with it and they had legal recourse, they would stop it immediately. Wyndham especially is notorious for their aggressive legal staff. Which is why we walk on eggshells as a company so we don't upset the 800lb gorilla! Lucky for us, what we do helps their owners and helps them by putting new potential owners in their resorts.

Otherwise, I appreciate both you and beefnots unbiased, non-assumptive approach to assessing this situation being discussed. We truly have positive intentions and that will only become more and more apparent in the coming months and years. Of course I don't expect you to take my word for it, all I ask is that you watch with an open mind and see for yourselves!

~Wendy

"Karma moves in two directions. If we act virtuously, the seed we plant will result in happiness. If we act non-virtuously, suffering results."

 

[jhac007]

WEN-D, I see you have on your web site a few satisfied customers.....do you care to detail some of them? Are they real people? $3000.00 in the first thirty days; 36 reservations for one client.........does this mean you have only been successful with a few multi-hundred points owners??? If neither of the parties replies to shed a little more light on these alleged success stories then one has to wonder. BTW, TUG is open after hours for all serious discussions!

Jim

What Our Clients Have To Say

"I almost didn't sign up with Optimal OC because I had been burned twice in the past by companies that claimed they would help me eliminate my maintenance fees, but I am sure glad I did. In the first 30 days I had $3,000 to apply toward my maintenance fees for the year. We still have a ways to go to cover my first year, but by the time anyone reads this, I am sure they will be long paid off..."
Ed M. – Jacksonville, FL (Presidential Reserve Platinum Owner)
"To be perfectly honest, the first year they only covered about 90% of my maintenance fees, but last year made up for it because I generated enough rental revenue to pay for 1 ½ years' worth of maintenance fees!"
John Y. – Westminster, CA (VIP Gold Owner)
"Not only was it invaluable to learn how to offset our maintenance fees, but the staff is always willing and ready to help with any questions or issues we have with our timeshare. Thanks to what they helped us accomplish, we paid off our 568,000 Myrtle Beach deed we recently bought in just 8 months! We can honestly say that this has far exceeded our expectations financially, plus their professionalism and friendly manner has been outstanding!" Milt & Cheryl M. – Kingwood, TX (VIP Platinum Owners)
"I have been a client for a couple of months now and couldn't be happier."
Randy T. – Oro Valley, AZ (VIP Platinum Owner)
"You have been very busy making all those reservations on my account and have the 2011 points that would have expired at the end of December all taken care of. Wow, 36 reservations - I am very impressed. I want to thank you and your team for taking care of us. Thanks for all your hard work.
Jim and Carlotta Roberts – Seattle, WA

 

[Beefnot]

Sounds like they may be able to help non-savvy VIP owners maximize the benefits of their status, and make a little money for themselves in the process. Ignorance, laziness, and/or focus on other priorities create a market for and value of middlemen.

 

[LannyPC]

LannyPC, I am not sure where you heard that we have detailed information about how people are using or not using their points?

I interpreted it from your co-worker Travis' post which says, and I quote:

"I do a lot of the cold calling myself. The reason why we do the cold calling is because we have found that a lot of timeshare owners are spending points that they don't need to to because they do not know how to optimally manage their accounts."

Now maybe I'm misinterpreting his statement or he did not mean what he said. But that statement comes across to me as saying that, when you cold call these Wyndham points owners, you are already armed with the following information about the owners:

1) Their name

2) Their phone number (obviously because you just called them).

3) The fact that they own Wyndham points and not weeks.

4) The fact that they are under-utilizing their points.

I seriously doubt that all this information about the owners is disclosed in Public Records.

 

[Beefnot]

Now maybe I'm misinterpreting his statement or he did not mean what he said. But that statement comes across to me as saying that, when you cold call these Wyndham points owners, you are already armed with the following information about the owners:

1) Their name

2) Their phone number (obviously because you just called them).

3) The fact that they own Wyndham points and not weeks.

4) The fact that they are under-utilizing their points.

I seriously doubt that all this information about the owners is disclosed in Public Records.

Can (3) be learned from deed information or other publicly attainable sources? I did not interpret Travis' statement to necesarily include (4), but I suppose that is possible. I figure with cold calling, you spray wide and some people will be appropriate candidates, while others will not.

 

[RX8]

But really, not so much you on this thread Theo, but RX8 and LannyPC.

I am reading this again and missed me being called an "attacker". I do not know if this company is legit or not. All I did was bring to light discrepancies. Read my posts again. They claimed millions of points rented and in business for four years. That simply is not true, at least in their current reincarnation.

I hope they are legit and can provide a valuable service. If they are, it certainly would have looked better of them to be more upfront about who they are and how long they have been in business.

 

[RX8]

obviously RX8 has a whole lot of free time on their hands to try and negatively tear down peoples livelihoods with nothing but negative assertions and assumptions.

All I did was list facts. Facts that conflicted with your own statements about how long you had been in business. With an industry in which scammers are everywhere, why are you even shocked that someone would question your inconsistencies???

 

[TRM79]

They are really trying to make you upgrade your membership

This company claims to be a timeshare rental company but they are really trying to sell more points via a partner. They require a minimum of a million points which very few people already own. According to them, they have been in business for three years. BBB only shows one month and according to them this is because they recently changed their name from something that contained the term 'bid'. (Refused to give me the previous name). They claim not to charge anything for rentals but the $30,000 I would need to give their "partner" to acquire the 1.4 million points will more than make up for that. They told me that unless I bought more points there is nothing they can do to help me.

 

[Beefnot]

What say you, WEN-D?

 

[RX8]

This company claims to be a timeshare rental company but they are really trying to sell more points via a partner. They require a minimum of a million points which very few people already own. According to them, they have been in business for three years. BBB only shows one month and according to them this is because they recently changed their name from something that contained the term 'bid'. (Refused to give me the previous name). They claim not to charge anything for rentals but the $30,000 I would need to give their "partner" to acquire the 1.4 million points will more than make up for that. They told me that unless I bought more points there is nothing they can do to help me.

Hmmmm. If this is all true everything else already discovered about them is starting to make more sense.

 

[Beefnot]

Seems like a pretty creative racket scheme. Deceptive, but enterprising.

 

[TRM79]

Follow up

This company claims to be a timeshare rental company but they are really trying to sell more points via a partner. They require a minimum of a million points which very few people already own. According to them, they have been in business for three years. BBB only shows one month and according to them this is because they recently changed their name from something that contained the term 'bid'. (Refused to give me the previous name). They claim not to charge anything for rentals but the $30,000 I would need to give their "partner" to acquire the 1.4 million points will more than make up for that. They told me that unless I bought more points there is nothing they can do to help me.

Following this post the Senior Client Relations Manager contacted me to find out what happened to make me write these statements. He informed me that the information given by the people I spoke with was incorrect as a result of dealing with a new sales associate and a manager that was not having a great day. He stated that "We don't have any minimum point requirements and have many clients who never bought additional points before working with us actually, however, we definitely like for our clients to have enough for a self-sufficient ownership since that is what we market ourselves as providing to our clients. The number of necessary points to have a self-sufficient ownership is different from client to client though based on several factors like: their current level of ownership, their current maintenance fees, how many weeks they vacation each year, how much they spend on other travel expenses like airfare/car rental, etc." As stated before for us that number turned out to be at least a million points (we would like to vacation 2 weeks a year) and thus would require us to purchase more points.

He also pointed out that the BBB does reflect that they have been in business since 2008 and it is easy to get the BBB accreditation date confused with the business start date which is located at the bottom of the screen. I checked out the website again, and it does in fact show an older start date then I previously stated, so I do want to correct that. I am assuming this includes the time with the previous company, but I may be wrong. However, I still was not given the name of the previous company due to "legal, or business" reasons.

 

[RX8]

Following this post the Senior Client Relations Manager contacted me to find out what happened to make me write these statements. He informed me that the information given by the people I spoke with was incorrect as a result of dealing with a new sales associate and a manager that was not having a great day. He stated that "We don't have any minimum point requirements and have many clients who never bought additional points before working with us actually, however, we definitely like for our clients to have enough for a self-sufficient ownership since that is what we market ourselves as providing to our clients. The number of necessary points to have a self-sufficient ownership is different from client to client though based on several factors like: their current level of ownership, their current maintenance fees, how many weeks they vacation each year, how much they spend on other travel expenses like airfare/car rental, etc." As stated before for us that number turned out to be at least a million points (we would like to vacation 2 weeks a year) and thus would require us to purchase more points.

He also pointed out that the BBB does reflect that they have been in business since 2008 and it is easy to get the BBB accreditation date confused with the business start date which is located at the bottom of the screen. I checked out the website again, and it does in fact show an older start date then I previously stated, so I do want to correct that. I am assuming this includes the time with the previous company, but I may be wrong. However, I still was not given the name of the previous company due to "legal, or business" reasons.

You like to vacation two weeks and their recommendation was for you to obtain at least 1,000,000 points? I dont own Wyndham but I am sure many tuggers get 2 weeks or more of vacation on a lot less than a million points. Certainly sounds like they want to sell you MORE points (at good profits to them) so they can turn around and rent them for you (for more profits).

Maybe I am too pessimistic but this still doesn't sound right. Newesh company, cold calls, claims prior business under another name but won't say what that name is. All doesn't add up for me.

A little search on the Internet found someone who stated he knew what the previous name they did business under. Wouldn't you know it, there is a thread on that company! Certainly sounds like a clone of this particular company.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148987

 

[Beefnot]

Interesting thread. It always irks me to read definitive statements that cold callers = scammers. and I am not even in sales.

 

[RX8]

Interesting thread. It always irks me to read definitive statements that cold callers = scammers. and I am not even in sales.

Are they all scammers? I would say no BUT I personally get annoyed by the stream of cold callers who blatantly disregard the do-not-call list. If they thumb their nose at that, I wonder what other laws they don't care to follow.